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Terri Schiavo has died. (Page 3)
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His Dudeness
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Mar 31, 2005, 03:48 PM
 
Originally posted by zizban:
It was a very sad situation for all involved. Rest in peace.
Especially Terri. I almost cried today for her. Rest in peace. And may God have mercy on their souls.
     
Captain Obvious
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Mar 31, 2005, 03:54 PM
 
Originally posted by budster101:


Caveat: I started this new thread so people could share their thoughts on her death, and not the controversy of the family v. husband etc.

Pfff, yeah right. I am sure that is what was going to happen.

I was wondering what we�d get more of this time around though. References to god or the Bush administration.

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His Dudeness
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Mar 31, 2005, 03:55 PM
 
It's all Bush's fault, right?
     
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Mar 31, 2005, 04:06 PM
 
Originally posted by Uncle Skeleton:
No, that's not it. If that was it you wouldn't have commented on the method of ending her life support at all, you would only have commented on the reasoning behind choosing to do so.
Yes, that is it. I made the comment I made because, since TS didn't get a say and her "husband" did, she starved to death -- and that's a crappy way to go. I hope what happened to her is what she wanted, and if not, God have mercy on their souls.

Pretty basic to me -- and what I said to begin with.

Maury
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That's why he's gonna kill us. So we got to beat it. Yeah. Before he let's loose the marmosets on us."
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Mar 31, 2005, 04:10 PM
 
Originally posted by His Dudeness:
It's all Bush's fault, right?
No, he just said something stupid as usual. it is her parents fault.

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Mar 31, 2005, 04:10 PM
 
Originally posted by zigzag:
You obviously intended to condemn the people involved for the method of her death, i.e. starvation, even though it happens routinely, and pursuant to living wills, which you obviously didn't really grasp.
Sorry, but you're wrong. Please quit trying to put words in my mouth and intent behind them. I condemned those who did this to Terri because there was no concrete evidence this is what she wanted done. Who did this? Her "husband" did. He decided to starve her to death. As to the method, it wouldn't have mattered to me -- gun shot, assisted suicide, smothering, whatever...this decision should NOT have been made by him. This decision should have been made by her family.

Maury
"Everything's so clear to me now: I'm the keeper of the cheese and you're the lemon merchant. Get it? And he knows it.
That's why he's gonna kill us. So we got to beat it. Yeah. Before he let's loose the marmosets on us."
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goMac
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Mar 31, 2005, 04:14 PM
 
Originally posted by RAILhead:
Sorry, but you're wrong. Please quit trying to put words in my mouth and intent behind them. I condemned those who did this to Terri because there was no concrete evidence this is what she wanted done. Who did this? Her "husband" did. He decided to starve her to death. As to the method, it wouldn't have mattered to me -- gun shot, assisted suicide, smothering, whatever...this decision should NOT have been made by him. This decision should have been made by her family.

Maury
Define family. By the traditional definition, that is her husband.

If this happened to my mother, family would be considered my father, myself, and my sister, right?
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Mar 31, 2005, 04:16 PM
 
Finally, although if this happens to me ever I will rise from my permanent vegetative state just to slay the bible thumpers outside my window.
     
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Mar 31, 2005, 04:19 PM
 
Originally posted by goMac:
Define family. By the traditional definition, that is her husband.

If this happened to my mother, family would be considered my father, myself, and my sister, right?
Go research how "husbandly" her "husband" has been, then report back.

Maury
"Everything's so clear to me now: I'm the keeper of the cheese and you're the lemon merchant. Get it? And he knows it.
That's why he's gonna kill us. So we got to beat it. Yeah. Before he let's loose the marmosets on us."
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Ghoser777
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Mar 31, 2005, 04:21 PM
 
Guys, just drop it. No one is winning this pissing contest. Just go away and do something more productive.
     
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Mar 31, 2005, 04:23 PM
 
Originally posted by Severed Hand of Skywalker:
No, he just said something stupid as usual. it is her parents fault.
How's it her parents'fault? I think there is enough blame to go around. Part of it also lays at the door step of the Gvernor and his brother. both of which COULD have done more.
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Mar 31, 2005, 04:28 PM
 
Originally posted by typoon:
How's it her parents'fault?
They kept someone who was 90% braindead on life support for 15 years because they are too selfish to let go. Her husband is the smart one.

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Mar 31, 2005, 04:30 PM
 
R.I.P

finally.

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Mar 31, 2005, 04:32 PM
 
Originally posted by Ghoser777:
Guys, just drop it. No one is winning this pissing contest. Just go away and do something more productive.
Ya know, I'm with you. Let's all quit arguing and let what happened fade.

How about we start another Hot Babes Thread� ?
"Everything's so clear to me now: I'm the keeper of the cheese and you're the lemon merchant. Get it? And he knows it.
That's why he's gonna kill us. So we got to beat it. Yeah. Before he let's loose the marmosets on us."
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typoon
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Mar 31, 2005, 04:36 PM
 
Originally posted by Severed Hand of Skywalker:
They kept someone who was 90% braindead on life support for 15 years because they are too selfish to let go. Her husband is the smart one.
You fault them for wanting to keep their Daughter alive?
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Severed Hand of Skywalker
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Mar 31, 2005, 04:39 PM
 
Originally posted by typoon:
You fault them for wanting to keep their Daughter alive?
yes, wanting to keep a vegetable that looks like their daughter because they can't let go and in the process cause suffering to the husband, the daughter and cost TONS of money.

So much for doing the right thing.

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Captain Obvious
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Mar 31, 2005, 04:39 PM
 
Originally posted by RAILhead:
I condemned those who did this to Terri because there was no concrete evidence this is what she wanted done.

Who did this? Her "husband" did. He decided to starve her to death.

this decision should NOT have been made by him. This decision should have been made by her family.

I�ve always been stunned by the stupidity of this argument. It goes back to what iWrite said about all immediate family members having to have a unanimous consensus on these decision. With this argument brothers, sisters, parents, children and the spouse would have to agree on the decision.

That is quite possibly one of the most retarded ideas one could support in making decisions like this. The odds of there being a single unified opinion by these many people is pretty goddamn slim. It would give equal weight to any number of people who one may not trust to watch their dog much less make decisions on their behalf. Then what do we do if the children or siblings are minors, do we still take into account their wishes? What if some immediate family members are estranged from each other but not the person in question and those personal relationships take a toll on the decision making process. The number of things that could happen to lead to disagreements is endless.

This is why there is power of attorney. One person makes these decisions, period.
Some people may not like who held power of attorney over the recently deceased stump but guess what, tough f�ing luck. The husband in this case was not found to have sufficient cause to have this right stripped from him and nothing you say, not one ounce of your half-witted opinion, is worth sh!t.

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Mar 31, 2005, 04:42 PM
 
Originally posted by RAILhead:
Yes, that is it. I made the comment I made because, since TS didn't get a say and her "husband" did,...
Ok, that's ignorant, but at least it's consistent with what you said (last)...

...she starved to death -- and that's a crappy way to go...

Pretty basic to me
Total non-sequitor! If it's a crappy way to go, why do you refuse to discuss all the thousands of others it's applied to at their own request? If you're going to be inconsistent and then get defensive about it when people point it out, I'm not going to waste any more time helping you overcome your confusion.

PS. Did you hear that the issue of her wishes was originally decided on the testimony of 4 other people besides the husband? I wonder what the Culture-of-Fear response to that juicy nugget is, since despite the hundreds of times the character of the husband has been attacked, I've never once heard even an ackowledgement of the fact by a Culture-of-Fear advocate. Just curious.
     
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Mar 31, 2005, 04:45 PM
 
Originally posted by RAILhead:
Go research how "husbandly" her "husband" has been, then report back.

Maury
Whether her husband was husbandly or not, many courts of law found that his right to determine her wishes were, IN THE EYES OF THE LAW, more legal than that of the parents.

Regardless of what you think of him as a person the courts found his claims to have more merit. So, you can criticize Michael Schiavo all you want but if you have complaints about how he was given the right to decide take them up with Judge Greer and the rest of the judicial elements involved in setting this decision.
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Mar 31, 2005, 04:48 PM
 
Originally posted by Captain Obvious:
The husband in this case was not found to have sufficient cause to have this right stripped from him and nothing you say, not one ounce of your half-witted opinion, is worth sh!t.


Family = parents, in this case. If they were dead, then I'd default to her "husband."


Now calm down and take your meds, mien kapitan.
"Everything's so clear to me now: I'm the keeper of the cheese and you're the lemon merchant. Get it? And he knows it.
That's why he's gonna kill us. So we got to beat it. Yeah. Before he let's loose the marmosets on us."
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Mar 31, 2005, 04:52 PM
 
Originally posted by Uncle Skeleton:
Total non-sequitor! If it's a crappy way to go, why do you refuse to discuss all the thousands of others it's applied to at their own request? If you're going to be inconsistent and then get defensive about it when people point it out, I'm not going to waste any more time helping you overcome your confusion.

PS. Did you hear that the issue of her wishes was originally decided on the testimony of 4 other people besides the husband? I wonder what the Culture-of-Fear response to that juicy nugget is, since despite the hundreds of times the character of the husband has been attacked, I've never once heard even an ackowledgement of the fact by a Culture-of-Fear advocate. Just curious.
I didn't know we were discussing other that have willed to die in her manner. But since you bring it up, I plainly stated that if someone wills to d that then so be it. No confusion at all, grasshopper.

I'd love to read a link that discusses the other 4 people, because no, I haven't read anything about that.

Maury
"Everything's so clear to me now: I'm the keeper of the cheese and you're the lemon merchant. Get it? And he knows it.
That's why he's gonna kill us. So we got to beat it. Yeah. Before he let's loose the marmosets on us."
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Mar 31, 2005, 04:53 PM
 
Originally posted by dcmacdaddy:
Regardless of what you think of him as a person the courts found his claims to have more merit. So, you can criticize Michael Schiavo all you want but if you have complaints about how he was given the right to decide take them up with Judge Greer and the rest of the judicial elements involved in setting this decision.

Right. That's where the problem is.

Maury
"Everything's so clear to me now: I'm the keeper of the cheese and you're the lemon merchant. Get it? And he knows it.
That's why he's gonna kill us. So we got to beat it. Yeah. Before he let's loose the marmosets on us."
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Mar 31, 2005, 04:55 PM
 
Originally posted by zigzag:
You obviously intended to condemn the people involved for the method of her death, i.e. starvation, even though it happens routinely, and pursuant to living wills, which you obviously didn't really grasp.

Woof. What is the name of that dog? Oh, yeah: B-I-N-G-O

Damn you and your nuances, man. Damn you. May Jeebus take it easy on your ghost when you croak...or something like that.
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Mar 31, 2005, 04:58 PM
 
Originally posted by Cipher13:
1. What else could the money and resources spent on her have been used on? The hospital bed? The time?
It was paid for privately. If people want to pay for a loved one's health care, then so be it. It's none of our business. [/B][/QUOTE]
     
Severed Hand of Skywalker
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Mar 31, 2005, 04:59 PM
 
If you guys care so much about people starving to death why not send some money to another poor country where mentally capable people die form starvation all the time.

Or do you only care when it is sensationalized stories about a brain-dead American?

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Mar 31, 2005, 04:59 PM
 
Originally posted by RAILhead:
Right. That's where the problem is.

Maury
Well, quit bitchin' about Michael Schiavo and start bitching about Judge Greer and the Pinellas County Circuit Court.
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Severed Hand of Skywalker
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Mar 31, 2005, 05:01 PM
 
Originally posted by spacefreak:
It was paid for privately. If people want to pay for a loved one's health care, then so be it. It's none of our business.
[/B][/QUOTE]

Really all the court time also?

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AKcrab
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Mar 31, 2005, 05:02 PM
 
Originally posted by Severed Hand of Skywalker:
yes, wanting to keep a vegetable that looks like their daughter because they can't let go and in the process cause suffering to the husband, the daughter and cost TONS of money.
She didn't even look like their daughter any more.

Those of you freaking out about her death, I do have a question..

Is it the way she died? If we had proper euthanasia laws to make certain death is quick and painless (like when we kill an inmate) would your oppinion be the same?
     
Shaddim
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Mar 31, 2005, 05:03 PM
 
Originally posted by zigzag:
You obviously intended to condemn the people involved for the method of her death, i.e. starvation, even though it happens routinely
I imagine it does, considering all the worthless carebear (re. liberal) types in this country.
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Mar 31, 2005, 05:08 PM
 
Originally posted by xi_hyperon:
... Reaper: "Well, your dead now, so shut up!"
     
Captain Obvious
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Mar 31, 2005, 05:09 PM
 
Originally posted by RAILhead:

Family = parents, in this case. If they were dead, then I'd default to her "husband."


Now calm down and take your meds, mien kapitan.

See this is where it gets funny from the standpoint of someone with an adequate education. If she was in fact a minor and not married then yes the power of attorney would go to her parents

But that was not the case was it? She was not a minor and she was married.

If the power of attorney still defaulted to a person�s parents after they turned 18 despite the presence of the spouse then the property they own jointly would go to the parents. All decisions regarding their estate and in custody of their children would be split and go to someone else even though there may still be a living parent and partial owner of the estate. This causes all sorts of problems legally and in some cases could be financially disastrous. See, I know you probably don�t have any education or background in anything this technically complicated but the breadth of decisions goes beyond the right to choose to pull the plug.

Because it is so much more complicated in the absence of a will or other directive the law generally believes that it is prudent to give power of attorney to the spouse. Oh and before you start yapping about �bad husband blah blah blah,� there are provisions in most states for people to contest the wishes of the spouse if there is cause.

Guess what? The Florida courts found no cause and so your argument is tossed out just like that!

I know, this isn�t as funny as posting clever jpegs but in the end my argument is right and you just look stupid. Guess why? Cause you are!

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Mar 31, 2005, 05:11 PM
 
Originally posted by MacNStein:
I imagine it does, considering all the worthless carebear (re. liberal) types in this country.

Amazes me how you surround yourself with elements of spiriuailty, but you seem to be one of the least spiritual people around.

Weird that.
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malvolio
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Mar 31, 2005, 05:15 PM
 
Originally posted by RAILhead:
Family = parents, in this case. If they were dead, then I'd default to her "husband."

Gee, the Bible says you're wrong. Mark 10:9.
/mal
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Mar 31, 2005, 05:23 PM
 
Originally posted by RAILhead:
I'd love to read a link that discusses the other 4 people, because no, I haven't read anything about that.
The judgement from the original trial. I found it in the long long thread with the unfortunately hateful title:

http://abstractappeal.com/schiavo/trialctorder02-00.pdf

On page 3:
The court also heard from witnesses who ran the gambit of credibility, from those clearly biased who slanted their testimony to those such as Father Murphy whom the court finds to have been completely candid.
...
Interestingly enough, there is little discrepancy in the testimony the court must rely upon in order to arrive at its decision in this case.
Later, on page 4:
There are no written declarations by Terri Schiavo as to her intention with regard to this issue. Therefore, the court is left with oral declarations allegedly made to parties and non-parties as to her feelings on this subject. The testimony before this court reveals that she made comments or statements to five (5) persons, including her husband and her mother.
It goes on in more detail about who said what, but you can read that for yourself. I await your reaction to this new information.
     
budster101  (op)
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Mar 31, 2005, 05:28 PM
 
Originally posted by Severed Hand of Skywalker:
They kept someone who was 90% braindead on life support for 15 years because they are too selfish to let go. Her husband is the smart one.
Same thread you said she was "80%".. now it's "90%"

CLUE: She's now 100%. This thread is about her being dead,and her parents were forbidden to be there when she died, by Terri's so very smart husband.
     
Shaddim
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Mar 31, 2005, 05:33 PM
 
Originally posted by SubGeniux:
Amazes me how you surround yourself with elements of spiriuailty, but you seem to be one of the least spiritual people around.

Weird that.
There are many different types of spirituality.
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Shaddim
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Mar 31, 2005, 05:35 PM
 
Originally posted by malvolio:
Gee, the Bible says you're wrong. Mark 10:9.
Well, when he took up with the other woman, he stopped being her husband.
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budster101  (op)
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Mar 31, 2005, 05:36 PM
 
Originally posted by MacNStein:
Well, when he took up with the other woman, he stopped being her husband.
In the vernacular that most of the miscreants in here will better relate to. True Dat.

Edit:

If that comes across that in some way I have little respect for some in here, then allow me to remove all doubt right now.
     
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Mar 31, 2005, 05:41 PM
 
Originally posted by budster101:
Same thread you said she was "80%".. now it's "90%"
The doctors said between 70-90% so I can use either. like it makes any difference anyway you're just trying to de-value what I say.

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budster101  (op)
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Mar 31, 2005, 05:44 PM
 
Originally posted by Severed Hand of Skywalker:
The doctors said between 70-90% so I can use either. like it makes any difference anyway you're just trying to de-value what I say.
The lack of value in what you write is clear to everyone. They don't need me to point it out, it's just a hobby.

Why didn't you just say "70-90%"? Even though this is debateable by other doctors.
     
Shaddim
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Mar 31, 2005, 05:46 PM
 
Originally posted by Severed Hand of Skywalker:
you're just trying to de-value what I say.
I don't think that's possible.
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Mar 31, 2005, 05:52 PM
 
Originally posted by MacNStein:
I imagine it does, considering all the worthless carebear (re. liberal) types in this country.
Oh God - the Neck-Snapping Macho Mystic blames natural death processes on the liberals. What twists of logic will he come up with next.

Liberals aren't the ones preventing euthanasia/assisted suicide - indeed, liberals are generally the ones who want to allow for it. That's why the right-to-lifers, who are predominately conservative and religious, are so angry at them. It's because of the right-to-lifers that people like Terri Schiavo can't be euthanized, due to the fear of prosecution. So they have to wait until death comes, whether it's by starvation or some other cause, even if it means suffering intractable pain. I know because my family has been through it.

Neck-snapping isn't necessary, although we're all very impressed by your bravado. There are easier and more humane ways to hasten death. It's the right-to-lifers, not the liberals, who have impeded us from using them.

My first post on this topic was that the most humane thing to do would be to hasten Schiavo's death. If the fact that I would use medication rather than snap her neck makes me a worthless carebear liberal, so be it. What a ridiculous thing to say.
     
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Mar 31, 2005, 05:54 PM
 
Originally posted by MacNStein:
I don't think that's possible.
It's true what I say is rock solid

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Severed Hand of Skywalker
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Mar 31, 2005, 05:57 PM
 
Originally posted by zigzag:

Neck-snapping isn't necessary, although we're all very impressed by your bravado.
heck a pillow over her face for 1 min would have done it.

"Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh"
     
typoon
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Mar 31, 2005, 05:57 PM
 
You've got to love it when the liberals and "black leadership" in Florida is attacking one of there own. Attcking a man who has stood up for his race so many times. Gotta love how the liberals down there are going after Jesse Jackson. I applaud him for doing what he felt was the right thing to do. Here's to you Jesse Jackson on this issue.
"Evil is Powerless If the Good are Unafraid." -Ronald Reagan

Apple and Intel, the dawning of a NEW era.
     
Captain Obvious
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Mar 31, 2005, 06:01 PM
 
Originally posted by typoon:
You've got to love it when the liberals and "black leadership" in Florida is attacking one of there own. Attcking a man who has stood up for his race so many times. Gotta love how the liberals down there are going after Jesse Jackson. I applaud him for doing what he felt was the right thing to do. Here's to you Jesse Jackson on this issue.
If anyone on the planet needs to be euthanized it is Jesse Jackson and maybe his son.

Barack Obama: Four more years of the Carter Presidency
     
Shaddim
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Mar 31, 2005, 06:02 PM
 
Originally posted by zigzag:
ad hom tripe
*yawn*

Don't worry, I'm sure that in time they'll eventually drop.
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
- Thomas Paine
     
Shaddim
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Mar 31, 2005, 06:03 PM
 
Originally posted by Severed Hand of Skywalker:
It's true what I say is rock solid
You may want to adjust your ignore list, it's slipping.
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
- Thomas Paine
     
Severed Hand of Skywalker
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Mar 31, 2005, 06:04 PM
 
Originally posted by MacNStein:
You may want to adjust your ignore list, it's slipping.
I know how much you love my attention that is why you reply to me

Hey look MacNStein I see you! Do something!

"Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh"
     
nredman
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Mar 31, 2005, 06:05 PM
 
glad she can finally have peace and hopefully in a few years i won't have to hear about this anymore.

"I'm for anything that gets you through the night, be it prayer, tranquilizers, or a bottle of Jack Daniel's."
     
 
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