[CharlesS]

I’m confused. How would USB 3.0 make a SD card obsolete but not a USB drive?

[freudling]

It just means that USB will be getting faster, and will be that much more attractive. But it doesn't matter, you have already turned a bit of an about face and agreed with me by putting your money on flash memory, and not on optical.

Take it easy.

[CharlesS]

… you do understand that the SD card slot is on the USB bus, right?

And that flash drives don’t currently saturate the USB 2.0 bus, for that matter.

[freudling]

Thanks for pointing that out. And thanks for ending up in agreement with me over flash memory.

All the best.

[CharlesS]

Likewise, thanks for completely misrepresenting my position on flash memory.

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally Posted by freudling 

As for the cost difference, you need to read this thread, cost is discussed and the difference in price is not significant enough to make USB sticks invalid.

I put forth that you have absolutely no clue how manufacturing and cost calculation work and affect the bottom line. A more-than-tenfold price increase per unit is not insignificant, and a few dollars in manufacturing tend to make a *much* larger difference in sales price due to the way margins work and cumulate.

Mind you, I don't know too much about that side - being in retail, rather than manufacturing - but I'm not the one spending hours arguing ridiculous absolutes out of a bizarre sense of having been slighted.

Also, I put forth that if it WERE a viable alternative RIGHT NOW, companies would actually, you know, be DOING IT (especially forward-thinking industry leaders with a penchant towards dropping "obsolete" tech slightly before it actually *becomes* obsolete).

But then, none of those corporations obviously have your marketing and fiscal insight, so I'll just defer to your expertise.

Have you considered a career as consultant?

Originally Posted by freudling 

Forget supplanting. That got inserted in here somewhere and mis-interpreted. Optical media, as I have stated... the need for it, has been GREATLY REDUCED as a result of the Internet. And, actually, in some cases, it is being taken over by digital downloads and flash memory. Period.

You will find that this is EXACTLY what I said.

So what's all this about:

Originally Posted by freudling 

Examples:

1. MP3 players with flash memory, like the iPod, with iTunes and Amazon music stores, etc. Let's look at the data from the US. For 2008, there was a significant drop in the number of Music CDs purchased in 2008: 17 million (19% drop). At the same time, there was a 29% rise in the number of digital music downloads. Further information can be found on Yahoo Finance from the NPD Group.

2. Software. For all major titles, including the tens of thousands of other less well-known programs, they are all available instantly via download. In addition, all updates to these programs are distributed over the internet. And you, me, and pretty much everyone else downloads applications and updates. And in many cases a person will have to spend more money to buy the disc version, if they even have one available. Which more and more of them do not.

Let's take me as an example of this trend. I have, for instance, over 100 applications on my computer, but you won't find any discs in my desk other than the system software that came with my Macs.

Then there's digital video replacing DVDs... Remember Blueray? On one poll, only 7% of US consumers said they had planned to purchase a Blueray player in the next year. The friction here is with digital downloading. And Apple has not put Blueray into their units yet. They might, but so far they don't seem as interested in the hype. According to Steve Jobs, "Blueray is a bag of hurt." And many pundits are dismissing Blueray because of the digital download "revolution", even though Blueray has slightly better audio/video quality than Apple's HD videos on demand and for purchase.

Downloading video... you can purchase and download high definition video instantly, and in some cases the cost is cheaper. Without the ability to stream and download purchased movies, we would all be stuck back in the VHS days, tied to video rental stores, recording TV shows with blank VHS tapes, and so forth. Because for the average consumer, there was no other way to obtain and play videos other than going to the movie theatre. Period. Now there is another way. And its opticalless.

Here is a good read on the subject of why Blueray is having trouble gaining speed like DVD did compared to VHS.

A quote from the article:

At an HDTV confab last fall, Warner Bros.' vice president of high-definition media development likened HD packaged media to a set of training wheels for digital downloads.

Digital downloads will be Blu-ray's downfall | News Blog - CNET News

Do you so enjoy reading yourself that all that crap was necessary to drive home a point that everybody agrees on?

Windmills, much?

[freudling]

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot 

I put forth that you have absolutely no clue how manufacturing and cost calculation work and affect the bottom line.

Demonstrate that I don't.

[freudling]

Originally Posted by CharlesS 

Likewise, thanks for completely misrepresenting my position on flash memory.

And where is CharlesS' money?

[CharlesS]

And what conditional statement is in that post?

[freudling]

You tell us CharlesS.

[CharlesS]

You know the funny thing about web browsers? They have these crazy things called scroll bars, which allow you to go back and read earlier posts in a thread. You should give this exotic feature a try sometime.

[AKcrab]

I can see Russia from this thread.

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally Posted by freudling 

Demonstrate that I don't.

You really don't need me for that.

[freudling]

No, I don't. And come to think of it, I don't know anything that I would need you for.

[Spheric Harlot]

Thank God for that!

This means I can waddle off to paint the kitchen.

Lime green.

[freudling]

Ewwwww. I guess I would have to see it to appreciate the lime green.

[freudling]

Originally Posted by CharlesS 

You know the funny thing about web browsers? They have these crazy things called scroll bars, which allow you to go back and read earlier posts in a thread. You should give this exotic feature a try sometime.

Indeed, you should certainly try that yourself CharlesS.

Actually, on my Air, there are no scroll bars. Anywhere. I think it might have gotten an incomplete install via remote disc installation.

Enjoy.

[The Final Dakar]

Now I remember this guy.

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally Posted by freudling 

Indeed, you should certainly try that yourself CharlesS.

Actually, on my Air, there are no scroll bars. Anywhere. I think it might have gotten an incomplete install via remote disc installation.

Enjoy.

AFAIK, the factory software install is applied directly to the hard drives, before they're installed into the computers.

Nobody sits there with a disk in front of a machine, waiting for the reboot screen.

Which, incidentally, ties in marvellously full-circle to your ORIGINAL rant (before the goal-posts shifted three times onto points everyone had agreed on in the first place):

This is also why they only drop a DVD into the box, rather than unpacking, setting up, booting, installing, restarting etc. Dropping the DVD into the box can be done by a pair of completely untrained day-hired temps with gloves and a cutter in the course of a day or two for a couple hundred/thousand machines, no matter where said machines might be in the supply chain.

Actually upgrading them for your benefit requires shipping them to a specific location, setting up each machine, hooking it up to an external drive, mirroring an image, shutting down, and repackaging them with fresh plastic wrapper/sticker - which is done by a machine on the final assembly/packaging line.

So every single one of *thousands* upon thousands of machines spread amongst warehouses throughout the world requires about a half-hour of table space in a clean environment, plus a set of hands and eyes that knows what they're doing (i.e. skilled or trained), plus shipping back to a packaging line to wrap it up in plastic, plus shipping back to wherever it was.

Lazy Apple...or maybe just not insane.

[freudling]

Unlike you, I'm not in the practice of making excuses for a company that charges top dollar for their products. I spent $2000 on a 13.3" laptop, and I like it. It's a great machine. As for the Snow Leopard install, I don't care if they have to go to hyperspace to get it pre-installed.

[Spheric Harlot]

Hey, that's right: Pull the apologist card!

Better than facing reality.


You say this is Apple's problem - they probably don't care, as you are one among twelve or so million this year, and vastly more customers than you are/would be *happy* to still have Leopard on their machines for another few weeks yet.

Did you ever get that appointment at the Genius Bar? Did they install Snow Leopard for you?

[freudling]

It is Apple's problem. Just like with my business it's my problem to make my customers happy. No excuses.

As for the Genius Bar... that's a great question. I did sort of answer previously. They won't install system software, for the most part, unless this is warranty work. The odd person may be able to squeeze them. They are very busy, and you get about 30 minutes with them.

At any rate, I managed to get the software installed via Remote Disc. I discussed that here. I went through 3 Airs and had to do the install 3 times. Everytime Remote Disc failed, the software was partly installed, the Airs restarted several times... but they all finally got the software installed. It ate up a lot of time... more than the time spent on this thread...

[CharlesS]

Originally Posted by freudling 

It is Apple's problem. Just like with my business it's my problem to make my customers happy. No excuses.

I will not be happy unless the box includes a check for one million dollars, written out to me. MAKE ME HAPPY! NO EXCUSES!

[freudling]

I will not be happy until a company that makes both its own hardware and software, and does not include an optical drive, provides either the buyer with the software pre-installed, or provides that software on a medium that will allow the user to install that software without the help of other computers, or without the need to invest extra money.

And a check for $1 million dollars would also be nice, and since Apple has billions of liquid cash from their above industry margins, they could easily afford to give me that check.

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally Posted by The Final Dakar 

Now I remember this guy.

Oh wow.

Thanks for the context!

Now I feel embarrassed for having entered into the discussion in the first place.

[CharlesS]

Gotta love how the post freudling was complaining about getting a warning for in that thread involved attacking ghporter for, of all things, writing posts that were too long.

[freudling]

And now we attack the poster and stray off topic. Typical, standard practice from you guys. You dig around and find old posts, instead of focusing on the issue, and not the party involved.

Apple should pre-install Snow Leopard on the premium priced MacBook Air, period. That's the point of this thread. It's not to discuss me, you, or other threads.

Start a new thread if you are going to to that.

And what would be really cool is, if they do not preinstall, if they allowed us Air users to upgrade to Snow Leopard via Software Update. Wishes...

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally Posted by freudling 

And now we attack the poster and stray off topic. Typical, standard practice from you guys.

You really ought to be careful in that glass house of yours:

Originally Posted by freudling 

Unlike you, I'm not in the practice of making excuses for a company that charges top dollar for their products.

Hey guys! I think I can see his weenie from here!

[sideus]

This thread hurts my head.

[freudling]

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot 

You really ought to be careful in that glass house of yours:


Hey guys! I think I can see his weenie from here!

Exactly! And I haven't heard "weenie" uttered for at least 16 years. It sounds just as ridiculous now as it did then.

[Simon]

Thread reported. Rarely have I seen so much nonsensical mudslinging outside of the Lounge. IMHO those who fueled it (you know exactly who you are) deserve a chill-out break.

[CharlesS]

You’re right — I lost my temper somewhere back there. Apologies — I’ve been having a bad week.

[OreoCookie]

I think this thread has reached the end of its natural life span.