Welcome to the MacNN Forums.

Eug Wanker · Nov 28, 2006, 11:20 PM

Hmm... I was just looking through the Amazon top 100 in video games...

There is not a single PS3-related item in the top 100 at all. Nada. Not a single game, or even an accessory.

Meanwhile there are are several Wii games in the top 100, and of course tons of Xbox 360 stuff (including the Xbox 360 HD DVD drive).

Nintendo did the launch right. Sony... Not so much...

icruise · Nov 28, 2006, 11:43 PM

Originally Posted by Eug Wanker

Nintendo did the launch right. Sony... Not so much...

This is news?

Jawbone54 · Nov 28, 2006, 11:44 PM

I haven't been paying close enough attention...

Does anyone here actually have a Playstation 3?

MaxPower2k3 · Nov 28, 2006, 11:45 PM

Originally Posted by Jawbone54

I haven't been paying close enough attention...

Does anyone here actually have a Playstation 3?

I believe just Starman

icruise · Nov 29, 2006, 12:02 AM

I have one on order, supposedly coming around the first of December. We'll see.

Stogieman · Nov 29, 2006, 01:04 AM

Originally Posted by Eug Wanker

Hmm... I was just looking through the Amazon top 100 in video games...

There is not a single PS3-related item in the top 100 at all. Nada. Not a single game, or even an accessory.

Nintendo did the launch right. Sony... Not so much...

You know what's even more amazing? The DS lite (black) is the #1 seller and the DS lite (white) is #2. There are a total of 22 DS titles in top 100.

The PSP holds #28 for the core system and #37 for the entertainment pack. There is not a single PSP title to be found in the top 100. If Sony is selling the PSP at a loss, how do they expect to make money?

Dark Helmet · Nov 29, 2006, 01:27 AM

Originally Posted by Jawbone54

I haven't been paying close enough attention...

Does anyone here actually have a Playstation 3?

I'm trying my best but no luck.

icruise · Nov 29, 2006, 01:33 AM

Originally Posted by Stogieman

The PSP holds #28 for the core system and #37 for the entertainment pack. There is not a single PSP title to be found in the top 100. If Sony is selling the PSP at a loss, how do they expect to make money?

Actually Madden for the PSP is #47. I think PSP games are selling relatively well, but there aren't any real blockbuster titles that almost everybody buys.

Eug · Nov 29, 2006, 01:42 AM

Originally Posted by Stogieman

You know what's even more amazing? The DS lite (black) is the #1 seller and the DS lite (white) is #2. There are a total of 22 DS titles in top 100.

Yeah, impressive.

Nintendo is firing on all cylinders, even with Nintendogs.

Dark Helmet · Nov 29, 2006, 01:58 AM

Originally Posted by Eug Wanker

Hmm... I was just looking through the Amazon top 100 in video games...

I can see why this made the top 50!

"Take care of your horse and respond to its demands"
http://www.amazon.com/Ubisoft-16326-...8&s=videogames

Those demanding "horsez"

MindFad · 03:07 PM

More partial to Hamsterz myself.

- - e r i k - - · Nov 29, 2006, 07:05 AM

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

I can see why this made the top 50!

"Take care of your horse and respond to its demands"
Amazon.com: Horsez: Computer & Video Games

Those demanding "horsez"

The sad thing is that it still beat the PS3 games. Kind of like how the Zune got beat by an iPod power adapter. Ouch.

Eug Wanker · Nov 29, 2006, 08:08 AM

Originally Posted by - - e r i k - -

The sad thing is that it still beat the PS3 games.

Yup.

Dark Helmet · Nov 29, 2006, 11:30 AM

Originally Posted by - - e r i k - -

The sad thing is that it still beat the PS3 games. Kind of like how the Zune got beat by an iPod power adapter. Ouch.

Ya that's just the point... sales don't represent the best product.

I don't think anyone can argue that Horsez is better overall than PS3's resistance.

Eug Wanker · Nov 29, 2006, 11:43 AM

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

Ya that's just the point... sales don't represent the best product.

I don't think anyone can argue that Horsez is better overall than PS3's resistance.

Who said anything about best product?

The whole point of the post was just as a further indication of how badly Sony screwed up the launch.

ort888 · Nov 29, 2006, 11:52 AM

PS3: What the Cell is Going On? from 1UP.com

What the Cell?

Dark Helmet · Nov 29, 2006, 11:56 AM

Originally Posted by Eug Wanker

The whole point of the post was just as a further indication of how badly Sony screwed up the launch.

Do we really need more evidence of that though? I mean we knew it would be the case 1 year ago so what point is left to prove? We knew they would **** it up and they did.

Not enough systems in the gamers hands so who do you sell games to?

Personally I would only get one game for the PS3 right now also.

The Xbox 360 I got 2 which is rare for me to do with a launch lineup.

The Wii I only got Zelda.

As every review of the PS3 mentions they see it is a very good game system and entertainment device and a great value if you plan on using both. Everyone also mentions that they are excited in the POTENTIAL of the system as they know the killer titles like Lair are shipping early next year.
Right now there is no hurry as the anticipated games aren't out yet and nobody can find a system if they tried.

The Wii many reviews say the same thing with a different tone. They are happy with the launch but they HOPE developers take good advantage of the controls in future games.

Nintendo did well in terms of price, launch quantities and hype. That is over with now and they have to keep showing us that it isn't a fad and future games aren't just ports from other games with Wiimote controls packed on.

Also, right now the Wii is getting much more news of defects/problems/damage/wrist straps than the PS3 is which I never expected.

I linked to a story that showed OVERALL the launch titles of the Wii got the worst launch title reviews on average since the PS1.

6 -8 months from now the sony launch will be in distant memory.

Eug Wanker · Nov 29, 2006, 12:26 PM

Originally Posted by ort888

PS3: What the Cell is Going On? from 1UP.com

What the Cell?

Originally Posted by Ken Kutaragi

Microsoft is trailing behind us, but they are not a threat. They are good at improving [on products], but we will be advancing to the next level with revolutionary technology...Microsoft shoots for the moon. Sony shoots for the sun.

Heh. Shoot for the sun, and you're liable to get burned.

Dakar² · Nov 29, 2006, 12:29 PM

Originally Posted by ort888

PS3: What the Cell is Going On? from 1UP.com

What the Cell?

I think the cell is a joke, but I also think judging by the first round of games isn't quite level.

Eug Wanker · Nov 29, 2006, 03:05 PM

So apparently, the PS3 launch was great for Microsoft. They are now claiming 8 million 360s sold to date.

icruise · Nov 29, 2006, 03:14 PM

Originally Posted by ort888

PS3: What the Cell is Going On? from 1UP.com

What the Cell?

"We're paying $200 more for what again?"

For the Blu-ray drive. Duh.

As I said before, these cross-platform games are going to be pretty similar since they are basically the same game for both the PS3 and 360. In many cases, the PS3 version is even inferior thanks to the developers' inexperience with the system. That doesn't mean that the PS3 sucks (but I will admit that Sony's hype is ridiculous).

Dark Helmet · Nov 29, 2006, 03:56 PM

Originally Posted by icruise

"We're paying $200 more for what again?"

For the Blu-ray drive. Duh.

Yep. Take the Xbox, add the cost of the HD-DVD and wireless and you already are at a higher cost than the PS3. They just make you think it is cheaper because you pay in the installment plan.

Just ask Eug.

Then of course there are people who will never want the high def player for movies but I guess that sucks for them.

goMac · Nov 29, 2006, 03:58 PM

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

Yep. Take the Xbox, add the cost of the HD-DVD and wireless and you already are at a higher cost than the PS3. They just make you think it is cheaper because you pay in the installment plan.

When people have already invested in the XBox 360 and games, they're not going to pluck down another $600 just to play HD movies.

Dark Helmet · Nov 29, 2006, 04:02 PM

Originally Posted by goMac

When people have already invested in the XBox 360 and games, they're not going to pluck down another $600 just to play HD movies.

Who said otherwise? I am saying if you have no systems and wanted to pick one.

goMac · Nov 29, 2006, 04:05 PM

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

Who said otherwise? I am saying if you have no systems and wanted to pick one.

I would guess most HD gamers already own an XBox 360.

For new HD gamers, they're going to want games like Halo 3, or they'll want to play upscaled older XBox games. Sony has the snowball effect going against them in that regard.

starman · Nov 29, 2006, 04:17 PM

Originally Posted by goMac

When people have already invested in the XBox 360 and games, they're not going to pluck down another $600 just to play HD movies.

Obviously you don't hang around home theater forums much.

icruise · Nov 29, 2006, 04:19 PM

Still, the vast majority of people don't even have HDTV yet, so I think Sony is hoping that despite Microsoft's head start, people will buy a PS3 when they finally get around to moving to HD.

Eug Wanker · Nov 29, 2006, 04:26 PM

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

Yep. Take the Xbox, add the cost of the HD-DVD and wireless and you already are at a higher cost than the PS3. They just make you think it is cheaper because you pay in the installment plan.

Just ask Eug.

Yep. And it works.

Mind you I would have bought the PS3 had it been available (and not been horribly crippled on 1080i-only sets) back at the beginning of the year.

Originally Posted by starman

Obviously you don't hang around home theater forums much.

Well, the people hanging around home theatre forums are the big movers of units.

goMac · Nov 29, 2006, 04:34 PM

Originally Posted by starman

Obviously you don't hang around home theater forums much.

I doubt the AVS junkies will be buying the PS3 in hordes. They'll be looking for a unit that is more concentrated on just the Bluray/HD-DVD aspects, probably not something that has Bluray/HD-DVD tacked on as a "me too".

starman · Nov 29, 2006, 04:45 PM

Originally Posted by goMac

I doubt the AVS junkies will be buying the PS3 in hordes. They'll be looking for a unit that is more concentrated on just the Bluray/HD-DVD aspects, probably not something that has Bluray/HD-DVD tacked on as a "me too".

Dead.
Wrong.

Read hometheaterforum.com and avsforum.com and you'll see that people would rather spend $500 for a PS3 for Blu-Ray than $1000 for the Samsung.

Do the math.

Eug Wanker · Nov 29, 2006, 04:50 PM

Originally Posted by starman

Dead.
Wrong.

Read hometheaterforum.com and avsforum.com and you'll see that people would rather spend $500 for a PS3 for Blu-Ray than $1000 for the Samsung.

Do the math.

Actually, it seems most at AVS are buying the HD DVD add-on for 200 bucks (or less).

Dark Helmet · Nov 29, 2006, 05:01 PM

Originally Posted by Eug Wanker

Actually, it seems most at AVS are buying the HD DVD add-on for 200 bucks (or less).

So they would rather spend the same amount on the Xbox and HD drive combo than just the PS3?

Do you think availability of the PS3 and the number of people who already have the Xbox have anything to do with that?

smacintush · Nov 29, 2006, 05:02 PM

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

Yep. Take the Xbox, add the cost of the HD-DVD and wireless and you already are at a higher cost than the PS3. They just make you think it is cheaper because you pay in the installment plan.

Just ask Eug.

Then of course there are people who will never want the high def player for movies but I guess that sucks for them.

Wait, 360 Pro = $399 (comes with a wireless controller) + HD-DVD player $199 = $598 Isn't the PS3 like $599 retail?

The math seems a little off, or did I miss something?

Either way, the point about whether or not it is "worth it" to pay that much for a PS3 is moot. The price point is too high to get the kind of market penetration they need and besides it doesn't really matter if the Xbox/HD-DVD player is just as expensive or more. A lot of people are not going to wait until they can FINALLY get their hands on a PS3 when they can choose between TWO other systems they can get now IMHO.

smacintush · Nov 29, 2006, 05:04 PM

Originally Posted by Eug Wanker

Well, the people hanging around home theatre forums are the big movers of units.

Those people are very few.

The PS3 needs to be a mainstream success to be a success. It would be different if they actually made money on the units.

Dark Helmet · Nov 29, 2006, 05:08 PM

Originally Posted by smacintush

Wait, 360 Pro = $399 (comes with a wireless controller) + HD-DVD player $199 = $598 Isn't the PS3 like $599 retail?

The math seems a little off, or did I miss something?

When I said wireless I meant the Wifi which is $100 bucks for the 360 for even the high end pack.

The low end PS3 is wifi less also but it is cheaper than the Xbox + HD combo and even has HDMI out.

itai195 · 05:17 PM

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

Also, right now the Wii is getting much more news of defects/problems/damage/wrist straps than the PS3 is which I never expected.

I wonder how much of that is a function of most PS3 launch units being up for resale and not actually being used. But that said, I've been reading reports of many PS3 problems so I'm not sure I agree witih the premise

Also you're right that an Xbox 360 adds up to roughly the same price as the PS3 when you tack on the HD-DVD drive, but I can't argue with Microsoft's approach. Most people don't even have HDTVs yet, so demand for HD-DVD and Blu-Ray will be limited to early adopters for a while... meaning I don't know that very many people will want to pay $200 extra for the Blu-Ray drive. Plus a lot of people who wanted an HD game system in the first place already have a 360 and will just buy the HD drive for it. I still think that when the dust settles from this launch, and the hysteria has faded, there will be lots of $600 PS3s gathering dust on store shelves. And price cuts might help, but when you're $200 more than your nearest competitor at launch it's going to take a lot of cutting...

Dakar² · Nov 29, 2006, 05:10 PM

Originally Posted by itai195

I still think that when the dust settles from this launch, and the hysteria has faded, there will be lots of $600 PS3s gathering dust on store shelves.

After Christmas, yeah, that seems quite possible.

smacintush · Nov 29, 2006, 05:11 PM

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

When I said wireless I meant the Wifi which is $100 bucks for the 360 for even the high end pack.

The low end PS3 is wifi less also but it is cheaper than the Xbox + HD combo and even has HDMI out.

Ah I see. Duh. Sorry!

itai195 · Nov 29, 2006, 05:13 PM

Originally Posted by Dakar�

After Christmas, yeah, that seems quite possible.

Yeah, that's what I meant

Eug Wanker · Nov 29, 2006, 05:13 PM

I do have a wireless adapter, but you can get router for $25 that does the same thing. In fact, I have one, but I was using it for something else.

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

So they would rather spend the same amount on the Xbox and HD drive combo than just the PS3?

Yes. Except they bought the Xbox 360 a long time ago.

Do you think availability of the PS3 and the number of people who already have the Xbox have anything to do with that?

Yes. Some people are like you and didn't get the PS3 because it is simply unavailable. Others however, didn't get the PS3 because it's just like a 360 but with few games out. So for HD movies, they may as well just spend the extra $200 (or $160 with the Circuit City coupon), instead of $600 for the whole PS3.

So, although what you say is true, the bottom line is that a TON of people are getting the HD DVD add-on drive, and many of these people will now just stick with it, and won't bother with the PS3.

This would have been very different had the PS3 launched earlier, and in good volume.

Dark Helmet · Nov 29, 2006, 06:14 PM

Originally Posted by Eug Wanker

I do have a wireless adapter, but you can get router for $25 that does the same thing. In fact, I have one, but I was using it for something else

I thought you said it was too slow?

Eug Wanker · Nov 29, 2006, 06:22 PM

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

I thought you said it was too slow?

Well, it's definitely too slow for HD video streaming because it's 802.11b, but it's OK for music streaming and perfect for gaming online. It's not as fast as my internet connection though, with is around 5 Mbps. (Mind you, Xbox Live downloads never even come close to maxing out my bandwidth.) Note though you can buy 802.11g routers for that price now that will do the same thing. You just have to make sure it works in wireless bridge mode, and several do.

However, it turns out that video streaming doesn't quite work with the 802.11g Microsoft adapter either. I think I have too much interference in my neighbourhood. HD streams stutter in my setup unless I'm doing it during the day when nobody is around.

More importantly, a lot of people don't even need wireless. The most reliable and the fastest is wired Ethernet. It's great that the PS3 includes wireless, but I wonder how much money they would have saved by leaving it out.

Dark Helmet · Nov 29, 2006, 06:31 PM

PS2 and PSP Sales Through the Roof - Kotaku

Stogieman · Nov 29, 2006, 07:16 PM

Why doesn't Sony ever release the exact numbers of units sold?

jokell82 · Nov 29, 2006, 08:03 PM

My $100 Xbox 360 came in today.

itai195 · Nov 29, 2006, 09:15 PM

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

PS2 and PSP Sales Through the Roof - Kotaku

In other news: people like to buy things in late November and December. Reasons still unknown.

Dark Helmet · Nov 29, 2006, 09:29 PM

Originally Posted by itai195

In other news: people like to buy things in late November and December. Reasons still unknown.

That explains that.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/6191260.stm

Jawbone54 · Nov 30, 2006, 02:04 AM

I am convinced now more than ever that the Playstation 2 is the best console ever made. I don't know why I just had to blurt that out (or type it out really quickly)...

But for the price, options, library, controller, etc., it is unbeatable.

jokell82 · Nov 30, 2006, 07:57 AM

Originally Posted by Jawbone54

I am convinced now more than ever that the Playstation 2 is the best console ever made. I don't know why I just had to blurt that out (or type it out really quickly)...

But for the price, options, library, controller, etc., it is unbeatable.

Dreamcast was better.

- - e r i k - - · Nov 30, 2006, 08:39 AM

What this all boils down to in my opinion is that getting a PS3 now is fairly useless. The library isn't there - the games aren't taking advantage of it. Even the blu-ray is fairly useless right now.

Waiting a year and seeing what's happened seems to be the best bet and just let early adopters like SWG take the fall for it in the mean time.

I am not saying that the PS3 will be a failure, I am just saying that getting one now just isn't worth it (for the majority).