Welcome to the MacNN Forums.

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

You are here: MacNN Forums > Hardware - Troubleshooting and Discussion > Mac Notebooks > new macbook...not yet...

new macbook...not yet...
Thread Tools
fisherKing
Professional Poster
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: brooklyn ny
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Nov 11, 2008, 02:19 PM
 
went to apple soho (for the second time in 2 weeks) to maybe get a new macbook. i need to replace my (much-loved) 12" powerbook.

i can forgive the firewire thing (will just move my FW drives data to a larger usb drive), altho not happy about that.
but the screen...

watched myself work. watched "the italian job" starring mark walberg and my reflection.

the air and pro screens are much better. glossy, but less reflective. frustrating, as i would be spending long days staring at the screen (i work on my own mac).

the air is underpowered (and 'underported') for my needs. the pro is too big (and yes, too expensive) for what i want. i do a lot of walking (hey, this is nyc) with my mac, and want 'small & light'.

so i am emptyhanded today while i wrestle with choices (or the lack thereof). am seriously disappointed in apple, a sad thing for a long-time macuser...

will probably do a macbook, and, if revision B is better, give this one to my GF and go for the newer one (if).

overly-reflective screen and no firewire; wtf apple???
"At first, there was Nothing. Then Nothing inverted itself and became Something.
And that is what you all are: inverted Nothings...with potential" (Sun Ra)
     
Voch
Mac Elite
Join Date: Apr 2001
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Nov 11, 2008, 03:21 PM
 
Yeah...I'm in the same boat with my soon-to-be-upgrade of my MacBook Rev. A.

MacBook: lighter and faster, but the same (or worse?) screen than what I have now
MacBook Pro: faster and better screen but bulkier and more expensive than what I have now
MacBook Air: lighter and better screen but slower (or not much faster) than what I have now

Right now the winner is a refurb MacBook Pro if they appear for $1699 or so around the new year. I'll just carry it less as my Palm Centro does rudimentary e-mail and web surfing...but then why am I getting a portable? Decisions, decisions...

Voch
     
fisherKing  (op)
Professional Poster
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: brooklyn ny
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Nov 11, 2008, 03:23 PM
 
Originally Posted by Voch View Post
Yeah...I'm in the same boat with my soon-to-be-upgrade of my MacBook Rev. A.

MacBook: lighter and faster, but the same (or worse?) screen than what I have now
MacBook Pro: faster and better screen but bulkier and more expensive than what I have now
MacBook Air: lighter and better screen but slower (or not much faster) than what I have now

Right now the winner is a refurb MacBook Pro if they appear for $1699 or so around the new year. I'm just not sure yet...

Voch
the new macbook screen is far more reflective than the previous macbooks (check it out next to the white macbook at the applestore). a shame..
"At first, there was Nothing. Then Nothing inverted itself and became Something.
And that is what you all are: inverted Nothings...with potential" (Sun Ra)
     
TheoCryst
Mac Elite
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Seattle, WA, USA
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Nov 11, 2008, 03:34 PM
 
Originally Posted by Voch View Post
Yeah...I'm in the same boat with my soon-to-be-upgrade of my MacBook Rev. A.

MacBook: lighter and faster, but the same (or worse?) screen than what I have now
MacBook Pro: faster and better screen but bulkier and more expensive than what I have now
MacBook Air: lighter and better screen but slower (or not much faster) than what I have now
Ditto. My RevA MacBook is getting a little long in the tooth for what I do (moderate to heavy Xcode/Eclipse development, and beginning to dabble in rudimentary graphics work). From what I can tell, the new MB screen isn't worse than the old one; the problem is that its preexisting shortcomings are more obvious now that it shares enclosures with the Air and Pro. Obviously the glass is more reflective than the old screen, but that's not the main reason for the screen's lackluster performance.

OP: A friend of mine just replaced their 12" PB with a new aluminum MacBook, and they're thrilled. I say go for it! The gloss takes a little while to get used to, but once you get the hang of it you stop noticing the reflections.

Any ramblings are entirely my own, and do not represent those of my employers, coworkers, friends, or species
     
fisherKing  (op)
Professional Poster
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: brooklyn ny
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Nov 11, 2008, 03:48 PM
 
Originally Posted by TheoCryst View Post
Ditto. My RevA MacBook is getting a little long in the tooth for what I do (moderate to heavy Xcode/Eclipse development, and beginning to dabble in rudimentary graphics work). From what I can tell, the new MB screen isn't worse than the old one; the problem is that its preexisting shortcomings are more obvious now that it shares enclosures with the Air and Pro. Obviously the glass is more reflective than the old screen, but that's not the main reason for the screen's lackluster performance.

OP: A friend of mine just replaced their 12" PB with a new aluminum MacBook, and they're thrilled. I say go for it! The gloss takes a little while to get used to, but once you get the hang of it you stop noticing the reflections.
the 12" powerbook screen was pretty lame (dim, less sharp next to the 15" powerbook), so the macbook IS, to some degree, an improvement. still, prefer matte (sigh).

what can i do anyway? i need a new laptop, so will go for the macbook (and probably report back here with observations...)
"At first, there was Nothing. Then Nothing inverted itself and became Something.
And that is what you all are: inverted Nothings...with potential" (Sun Ra)
     
Dakar V
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: The New Posts Button
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Nov 11, 2008, 03:49 PM
 
Originally Posted by fisherKing View Post
the new macbook screen is far more reflective than the previous macbooks (check it out next to the white macbook at the applestore). a shame..
It's really too bad that previous MacBook (with FireWire) isn't still available -- oh wait, it is!
     
Voch
Mac Elite
Join Date: Apr 2001
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Nov 11, 2008, 04:18 PM
 
I've gone over this dozens of times in my mind and it just keeps looping...

I use my current MacBook in closed mode with an external monitor most of the time but do like that I can grab it and go to use it in the living room or at my friends' house. So I'm stuck between "I'll get the Pro and use it as a notebook more and can stash/give away my external display" versus "I'll get the non-Pro I'll carry it around more because it weighs less".

Space isn't an issue as I have a large cubicle desk section at home so I have lots of work surface for adding external display, keyboard, and mouse to a non-Pro MacBook (as I have set up now), but there's something to be said about the cleanliness about just using a Pro model with no attachments other than the power connector.

Price isn't a big issue for me...when the refurbs come around I'm hoping $1399 for the 2.4Ghz non-Pro and $1699 for the 2.4Ghz Pro...so a $400 difference after AppleCare (+$100 for Pro models). It's about how I use the machine versus the justification of the nicer screen versus extra bulk.

GPU isn't a big deal...I'm a Java dev when I do work and a Stella/MAME player when I'm not working. I'm not a Photoshop jock...

My machine before my MacBook was my wonderful refurb PowerBook G4 667/DVI Titanium that I babied for 3.5 years and then sold to my cousin (it's since been stolen but would no doubt be alive today). I rarely took it out of the apartment the first few years but towards the end of my ownership regularly took it to my coworker's house to do Java dev on it. So it's not like I've never had to cart around the "larger" machine...

Voch
     
Scottological
Fresh-Faced Recruit
Join Date: Nov 2008
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Nov 11, 2008, 05:39 PM
 
Feel your pain. I'm a peripatetic writer and have been schlepping my 1.33 Ghz PowerBook G4 around for almost five years. I liked the smaller form factor of the new MacBooks, but detested the reflective glass. I work outdoors, on planes, in bars, etc., and the mirrorish quality of the thing made it a deal breaker. Glossy I can handle, glassy, on the other hand, is bad.

I think I'm getting a new Penryn MBP. Same size, more or less, as what I'm used to carrying but much more powerful and with the all-important matte screen. It's either that or the Ubuntu HP netbook coming out in January.
     
Spheric Harlot
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: 888500128, C3, 2nd soft.
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Nov 11, 2008, 06:44 PM
 
Originally Posted by fisherKing View Post
the air and pro screens are much better. glossy, but less reflective.?
The MacBook Pro screen is *exactly* as reflective as the MacBook screen. It's just so much brighter that you don't notice.

The MacBook Air screen is both brighter and less reflective.
     
fisherKing  (op)
Professional Poster
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: brooklyn ny
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Nov 11, 2008, 06:56 PM
 
in my observations, the pro screen has better color, wider viewing angles, and is less reflective. it's just better..
"At first, there was Nothing. Then Nothing inverted itself and became Something.
And that is what you all are: inverted Nothings...with potential" (Sun Ra)
     
ooninay
Junior Member
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Toronto
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Nov 12, 2008, 12:14 AM
 
Originally Posted by Voch View Post
I've gone over this dozens of times in my mind and it just keeps looping...

I use my current MacBook in closed mode with an external monitor most of the time but do like that I can grab it and go to use it in the living room or at my friends' house. So I'm stuck between "I'll get the Pro and use it as a notebook more and can stash/give away my external display" versus "I'll get the non-Pro I'll carry it around more because it weighs less".

Space isn't an issue as I have a large cubicle desk section at home so I have lots of work surface for adding external display, keyboard, and mouse to a non-Pro MacBook (as I have set up now), but there's something to be said about the cleanliness about just using a Pro model with no attachments other than the power connector.

Price isn't a big issue for me...when the refurbs come around I'm hoping $1399 for the 2.4Ghz non-Pro and $1699 for the 2.4Ghz Pro...so a $400 difference after AppleCare (+$100 for Pro models). It's about how I use the machine versus the justification of the nicer screen versus extra bulk.

GPU isn't a big deal...I'm a Java dev when I do work and a Stella/MAME player when I'm not working. I'm not a Photoshop jock...

My machine before my MacBook was my wonderful refurb PowerBook G4 667/DVI Titanium that I babied for 3.5 years and then sold to my cousin (it's since been stolen but would no doubt be alive today). I rarely took it out of the apartment the first few years but towards the end of my ownership regularly took it to my coworker's house to do Java dev on it. So it's not like I've never had to cart around the "larger" machine...

Voch
I got a 17" MBP about 6 months ago thinking that the screen might be big enough that I wouldn't feel tempted to connect an external monitor to it... wrong. Even that size screen feels confining to me for a lot of things. Games for one, but also just doing regular work when I need to have two or three things open at once. When it's not connected to an external I usually miss the extra space, and when it is connected it's a pain to disconnect everything so I can take it somewhere else... this has been my dilemma for the past 6 months. The new MBP/Cinema Display combo is very appealing to me because at least there's a lot less to connect/disconnect with that new monitor.
     
Voch
Mac Elite
Join Date: Apr 2001
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Nov 12, 2008, 08:22 AM
 
Originally Posted by ooninay View Post
I got a 17" MBP about 6 months ago thinking that the screen might be big enough that I wouldn't feel tempted to connect an external monitor to it... wrong. Even that size screen feels confining to me for a lot of things. Games for one, but also just doing regular work when I need to have two or three things open at once. When it's not connected to an external I usually miss the extra space, and when it is connected it's a pain to disconnect everything so I can take it somewhere else... this has been my dilemma for the past 6 months. The new MBP/Cinema Display combo is very appealing to me because at least there's a lot less to connect/disconnect with that new monitor.
I really like my Mac's current ability to quick-connect video without the screws used by DVI and VGA connectors. For my use I keep my DVI-to-mini-DVI adapter connected to my external display because it allows me to easily click the connector into my MacBook. I know there's was a lot of griping about having to buy a then-$19 adapter but it could be argued (well...probably not based on some of the complaints I've read) that Apple was ahead of the game as far as quick-connectivity is concerned. I rarely connected my TiBook to any external display as it involved messing with those tiny screw thingies.

The new DisplayPort...that's a little different. I think the "normal" DisplayPort connector is quick-connect by design even without Apple's miniature version of it, so Apple seems to have chosen their own connector for space concerns. If I choose the new non-Pro MacBook I'll have the same quick-connect capability as I've had with my MacBook albeit with a $29 adapter.

Voch
     
Maflynn
Professional Poster
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Boston
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Nov 12, 2008, 08:45 AM
 
I bit the bullet moving from a matte screen MBP to a glossy MBP and I've not looked back. Both the MB and the MBP are great computers. The speed, build, quality and yes even the display. They're awesome. YMMV but I've found that the majority of whining about the display are from people who have a philosophical issue with apple using a glossy screen rather then technical issues with the screen but hey its your money, and you need to use it.
~Mike
     
fisherKing  (op)
Professional Poster
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: brooklyn ny
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Nov 12, 2008, 09:36 AM
 
Originally Posted by Maflynn View Post
I bit the bullet moving from a matte screen MBP to a glossy MBP and I've not looked back. Both the MB and the MBP are great computers. The speed, build, quality and yes even the display. They're awesome. YMMV but I've found that the majority of whining about the display are from people who have a philosophical issue with apple using a glossy screen rather then technical issues with the screen but hey its your money, and you need to use it.
even the apple store employees i spoke to (3 of them), and the salesman at another apple-authorized store, agreed:
the screen on the new macbook has slightly washed-out color, and is far more reflective than the mpb...
(my observation as well)
"At first, there was Nothing. Then Nothing inverted itself and became Something.
And that is what you all are: inverted Nothings...with potential" (Sun Ra)
     
Spheric Harlot
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: 888500128, C3, 2nd soft.
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Nov 12, 2008, 11:13 AM
 
Originally Posted by fisherKing View Post
even the apple store employees i spoke to (3 of them), and the salesman at another apple-authorized store, agreed:
the screen on the new macbook has slightly washed-out color, and is far more reflective than the mpb...
(my observation as well)
Uhhm.

The reflections are much more annoying *because* the screen contrast is lower, but the display surface is exactly the same.

End result is the same (i.e. basic agreement), but it's incorrect to say that the MacBook is "more reflective", from what I can see.
     
fisherKing  (op)
Professional Poster
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: brooklyn ny
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Nov 12, 2008, 11:25 AM
 
Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot View Post
Uhhm.

The reflections are much more annoying *because* the screen contrast is lower, but the display surface is exactly the same.

End result is the same (i.e. basic agreement), but it's incorrect to say that the MacBook is "more reflective", from what I can see.
i stand by my statement (about the END RESULT of looking at the screen, regardless of WHAT causes it).
more reflective, slightly washed-out colors.
"At first, there was Nothing. Then Nothing inverted itself and became Something.
And that is what you all are: inverted Nothings...with potential" (Sun Ra)
     
jaydon34
Senior User
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: NY
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Nov 12, 2008, 11:32 AM
 
I've owned both a 1st gen Macbook and a Macbook Pro. I just purchased the new Aluminum Macbook and the new unibody is well worth the upgrade. Aesthetically the laptop is amazing and is noticeable slimmer and lighter than my older Macbook. If looks are unimportant and firewire is a necessity, I'd just get a last gen Macbook Pro. I've seen them for around a thousand on craigslist which even I've debated doing because my new Macbook has never left my desk. I use a netbook when I'm go but thats a whole other debate..... lol
myflickr : mytwitter : twentyonethirty
17" Macbook Pro 2.6Ghz 4gb 200GB HD: 8gb Iphone 3g: Hp Mini 1000 Netbook
     
Scottological
Fresh-Faced Recruit
Join Date: Nov 2008
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Nov 12, 2008, 01:06 PM
 
Indeed, the last gen MBP's are screaming bargains right now, even new. (Bargains by Apple standards, at least.) If you don't need the graphics capabilities and DDR3 RAM, they're ideal machines.
     
Urkel
Junior Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Nov 12, 2008, 05:14 PM
 
Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot View Post
Uhhm.

The reflections are much more annoying *because* the screen contrast is lower, but the display surface is exactly the same.

End result is the same (i.e. basic agreement), but it's incorrect to say that the MacBook is "more reflective", from what I can see.
I know what you mean because the display surface is the same on both. But I have to agree that the MacBook "feels" more reflective due to the screen quality. Both screens are extremely reflective, so in order to compensate people crank up the brightness. The problem is that if you take the standard Macbook past 80% then blacks start washing out so you settle for around 70%, and that means more reflection.

It doesn't affect me as much as it does others since I use an external monitor. But it sure doesn't feel like "progress" in Apple design. So I'm curious if anyone knows why they went with glass? It's more fragile, more reflective, heavier and appears to require more screen bezel. So why is that better than the LCD/LED screens we saw last gen?
     
bbales
Mac Elite
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: suburban Chicago
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Nov 21, 2008, 10:03 AM
 
Originally Posted by fisherKing View Post
the 12" powerbook screen was pretty lame (dim, less sharp next to the 15" powerbook), so the macbook IS, to some degree, an improvement. still, prefer matte (sigh).

what can i do anyway? i need a new laptop, so will go for the macbook (and probably report back here with observations...)
I bought a MB the day they were announced. I was peeved about FW, but it wasn't a deal-breaker, because I wasn't migrating much over from my (also much-loved) 12-inch PB. That thing had gotten so slow I was mostly using my iMac anyway.

To be honest, I've had no problems with the screen. It simply doesn't bother me, and yes, I usually use this in the living room where there are several windows. That said, this is a secondary machine for me, and I don't travel with it by and large.

I have to go to an Apple store today (ipod warranties -- let it go too long, unfortuantely), and I think I'll compare screens. Maybe not, though -- I hate to be disappointed with something I'm quite enjoying now!

All that said, I'm still not used to the trackpad. It sometimes give me the command click/control click whatever, when all I want is a regular old click. So a month later, that's still an issue for me.
     
   
Thread Tools
 
Forum Links
Forum Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Top
Privacy Policy
All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:39 PM.
All contents of these forums © 1995-2017 MacNN. All rights reserved.
Branding + Design: www.gesamtbild.com
vBulletin v.3.8.8 © 2000-2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.,