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OS X v10.8 - Mountain Lion (Page 2)
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Salty
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Feb 17, 2012, 03:17 PM
 
Btw they've kinda fixed the address book. you can now do two panes on the left side. And I don't know if you were able to resize it in Lion but you can in Mountain Lion.

The huge tabs in Safari is irritating. The omnibox is good though.

Pages needs to be updated for iCloud, so I guess I'm waiting on that.

Vuze works flawlessly after reinstalling Java. No changes at all to Mail that I can see.
     
Spheric Harlot
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Feb 17, 2012, 03:58 PM
 
Originally Posted by P View Post
[Gatekeeper] just an expansion of what is already in the Mac App Store. I like it, sure - it might help with stopping trojans - but I'd also like to see it in practice. For instance, if it can be made to allow temporary exceptions, I'd probably leave it on the default, but if not, it goes to "Allow all" the first thing that happens after install.
Not a temporary exception, but a per-app exception, at least:



Control-click and "Open".

     
Big Mac
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Feb 17, 2012, 05:14 PM
 
Does an exception dialog box appear to make an exception, or do you have to do the right-click open every time?

I think this is a good feature as long as it's not a prelude to a future total App Store lock down.

"The natural progress of things is for liberty to yield and government to gain ground." TJ
     
lpkmckenna
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Feb 17, 2012, 05:17 PM
 
Originally Posted by Big Mac View Post
I think this is a good feature as long as it's not a prelude to a future total App Store lock down.
That will never happen, and there is no reason to imagine it could happen.
     
Salty
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Feb 17, 2012, 05:54 PM
 
I will say that in a lot of ways this feels like Snow Leopard did. Some new shiny stuff but not a whole hell of a lot new overall. In a lot ways this doesn't feel like a real OS update. Granted I'm enjoying the few new things, but outside of a few apps that will probably be used now and then but not for anything amazing ... I think I'm gonna be left a little underwhelmed.
     
graxspoo
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Feb 17, 2012, 06:57 PM
 
The dumbing down of OS X continues apace.
There was nothing in Lion that enticed me to upgrade, and there's less in ML.
I'm sticking with Snow Leopard as long as I can.
     
Spheric Harlot
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Feb 17, 2012, 07:04 PM
 
Originally Posted by Big Mac View Post
I think this is a good feature as long as it's not a prelude to a future total App Store lock down.
I really, really doubt that will happen.

There is absolutely no reason for it to.
     
Waragainstsleep
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Feb 17, 2012, 07:22 PM
 
Gatekeeper is all about working with Profie Manager to stop users installing crapware on company computers. Thats my theory. Has anyone seen signs of an ML Server?
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
imitchellg5  (op)
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Feb 17, 2012, 07:30 PM
 
Originally Posted by graxspoo View Post
The dumbing down of OS X continues apace.
There was nothing in Lion that enticed me to upgrade, and there's less in ML.
I'm sticking with Snow Leopard as long as I can.
How exactly is adding new features and not taking any away "dumbing down" an OS?
     
cgc
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Feb 17, 2012, 07:57 PM
 
Originally Posted by Doc HM View Post
You know what would be cool? The ability to publish address book groups like you can calendars in iCal.
Since hackers already know how to "publish" your address book to their servers it is funny Apple hasn't added this to OSX>
     
TETENAL
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Feb 17, 2012, 09:44 PM
 
Originally Posted by imitchellg5 View Post
How exactly is adding new features and not taking any away "dumbing down" an OS?
Previously only pros knew how to store notes on an IMAP server. Now every idiot can simply type in notes and have it kept in sync with their iToy. That's dumbing down.
     
Wiskedjak
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Feb 17, 2012, 10:09 PM
 
Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep View Post
Gatekeeper is all about working with Profie Manager to stop users installing crapware on company computers. Thats my theory.
Yup, except it's currently identifying software like Adium as "crapware".
Gatekeeper: Cancel or Allow? - Boing Boing

(also, apparently BoingBoing also sees a similarity with Vista's security features)
     
zro
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Feb 18, 2012, 01:19 AM
 
I'd consider it obvious Gatekeeper is meant to drive sales to the App Store. Unless Apple gets some hush money they're going to tell a developers users that their application is not to be trusted and should be thrown away immediately.

I don't even have 10.7 client. Though I do have 10.7 server (FML) due to a new mini purchase, so chances are I won't be getting 10.8 unless it comes on a new Mac... so slim to none basically.
     
Spheric Harlot
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Feb 18, 2012, 05:02 AM
 
Originally Posted by TETENAL View Post
Previously only pros knew how to store notes on an IMAP server. Now every idiot can simply type in notes and have it kept in sync with their iToy. That's dumbing down.
"Dumbing it down" is quite obviously a derogatory term.

Taking obscure "functionality" and making it simply accessible isn't "dumbing it down", it's "fixing what's broken".

Why on earth should to-dos that I've entered on my other device show up as a randomly jumbled mess in an uncoordinated list in the right-hand pane of iCal? All that does is back them up on my machine; it doesn't make them in the slightest *useful*.

Same with Notes jumbled in among several thousand e-mails, split up between accounts.

I NEVER use notes or reminders on the Mac, simply because there isn't really an interface for them.

THAT is "dumb".

AFAIC, they're "smarting it up" for Mountain Lion.
     
Spheric Harlot
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Feb 18, 2012, 05:04 AM
 
Originally Posted by zro View Post
I'd consider it obvious Gatekeeper is meant to drive sales to the App Store. Unless Apple gets some hush money they're going to tell a developers users that their application is not to be trusted and should be thrown away immediately.
Suuuure...
     
OreoCookie
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Feb 18, 2012, 06:01 AM
 
Originally Posted by zro View Post
I'd consider it obvious Gatekeeper is meant to drive sales to the App Store. Unless Apple gets some hush money they're going to tell a developers users that their application is not to be trusted and should be thrown away immediately.
I don't think it's time to bring out the tin foil hat just yet
Code signing is one way to combat malware on computers. Plus, it's a clear sign that Apple acknowledges that OS X users want and need to install apps from outside the app store. For otherwise, a lot of software such as Data Rescue, SuperDuper or CCC wouldn't even be available. So I see that as a good thing: (1) Gatekeeper improves security. (2) It's a sign that Apple understands the differences in usage scenarios on iOS and OS X.
Originally Posted by graxspoo View Post
The dumbing down of OS X continues apace.
Making things simpler is not the same thing as dumbing something down. OS X allows me to be anywhere between point-and-click (and swipe) doofus and command line junky.
I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
     
TETENAL
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Feb 18, 2012, 08:23 AM
 
I just would like to point out, that I suggested code signing as a solution to the malware problem almost 8 years ago (when most still didn't understand the benefits of the idea).

http://forums.macnn.com/90/mac-os-x/...x/#post1924111

     
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Feb 18, 2012, 09:35 AM
 
Recently, developers have been pushing that idea more aggressively as well.

Besides, you don't have to invent dark motives behind the code signing initiatives. Their motives are plain as day in not letting non-App Store apps use the Notification Center and iCloud. iCloud I could kinda sorta understand (running those servers costs money, and Apple gets a cut from sales in the App Store) but Notification Center?
The new Mac Pro has up to 30 MB of cache inside the processor itself. That's more than the HD in my first Mac. Somehow I'm still running out of space.
     
Hinson
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Feb 18, 2012, 10:50 AM
 
Quick and easy question for anyone trying out the Mountain Lion preview release:

In a Finder window using List view (not Column view, but List view), if you double-click on a bar that separates the header fields at the top of the window, does the associated column automatically size itself to fit its content?

This was a feature in 10.6 (think it was introduced there or in 10.5) but it went away in Lion. I use list view in several places (I like seeing the details it provides, for example) and I used this simple feature from time to time. Not sure why they got rid of it. BTW, while I'm I a long time Mac-only user at home (never owned a non-Apple computer) like most I use a PC at work, and this has been a standard Windows feature for as long as I can remember. I was pretty happy when Apple finally added it to Mac OS X and pretty confused when they dropped it for no reason. Is it back in ML?

Thanks in advance for any replies.


-Jay
     
TETENAL
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Feb 18, 2012, 12:06 PM
 
The Lion Finder had been completely rewritten in Cocoa. The probably didn't intentionally drop that feature but simply forgot to implement it. Which means they will not bring it back, unless people bring it to their attention that it is missing. Write feedback.
     
Hinson
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Feb 18, 2012, 12:29 PM
 
Yeah, I've given them feedback on it. Maybe others will too.


-Jay
     
ajprice
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Feb 18, 2012, 02:18 PM
 
So how long before touchscreen Macs? I have a Magic Trackpad, it's nice but maybe still a bit 'detached'... With Apple's OS X Mountain Lion Moving Toward iOS, Are We Finally Going To See Touchscreen Macs? - Forbes

It'll be much easier if you just comply.
     
chabig
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Feb 18, 2012, 04:19 PM
 
Originally Posted by ajprice View Post
So how long before touchscreen Macs?
It'll be a long time, I'm sure. The cost of the touchscreen almost has to be zero in order for this to make sense, because the touchscreen adds almost no value to a vertical display. See Gorilla Arm.
     
Spheric Harlot
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Feb 18, 2012, 05:08 PM
 
Originally Posted by chabig View Post
It'll be a long time, I'm sure. The cost of the touchscreen almost has to be zero in order for this to make sense, because the touchscreen adds almost no value to a vertical display. See Gorilla Arm.
i agree that it's not happening any time soon, but:

an Apple patent.
     
l008com
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Feb 18, 2012, 06:34 PM
 
Hows about resolution independence and a migration to mostly vector artwork inside apps. That's what I'd love to see. No sign of that in 10.8.
     
Spheric Harlot
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Feb 18, 2012, 06:37 PM
 
Originally Posted by l008com View Post
Hows about resolution independence and a migration to mostly vector artwork inside apps. That's what I'd love to see. No sign of that in 10.8.
That would have to be in every single app, not so much in the OS—which is why it never happened, and never will.

They'll go Retina by quadrupling the resolution, end of story.
     
l008com
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Feb 18, 2012, 06:39 PM
 
It could work in non-updated apps the same way changing the resolution on your screen works now, just by enlarging the image's size, which reduces quality. A stop gap would be what you do for the iPhone 4, which is using larger images. But it makes so much more sense in every way, to use vector graphics .
     
Spheric Harlot
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Feb 18, 2012, 06:44 PM
 
Originally Posted by l008com View Post
It could work in non-updated apps the same way changing the resolution on your screen works now, just by enlarging the image's size, which reduces quality. A stop gap would be what you do for the iPhone 4, which is using larger images. But it makes so much more sense in every way, to use vector graphics .
So the solution would be to make everything look like complete shit, with the stopgap being forcing everybody to create new artwork, as a preliminary measure until...they create new artwork.

Meanwhile, everything looks like shit, and everything that's already done will continue to look like shit, forever.

Hmm.



As opposed to:

Quadruple resolution.

Everything looks EXACTLY the same as always, and developers can make everything look awesomely better by creating new artwork.

Hmmm.

Which solution seems like the simple and elegant way out?
     
l008com
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Feb 18, 2012, 08:56 PM
 
No the solution would be to make everything look great, and the stop gap would be to enlarge regular images which would make them look slightly bad, but no worse than those same images are going to look when they get quadrupled under a retina display.
     
Spheric Harlot
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Feb 18, 2012, 09:37 PM
 
Originally Posted by l008com View Post
No the solution would be to make everything look great, and the stop gap would be to enlarge regular images which would make them look slightly bad, but no worse than those same images are going to look when they get quadrupled under a retina display.
I was responding to your points in order, and referring as a stopgap to what you called a stopgap.
     
besson3c
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Feb 18, 2012, 11:43 PM
 
Any sign or hints of the new Apple filesystem?
     
Salty
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Feb 19, 2012, 02:40 AM
 
OK so first major hickup in Mountain Lion, for some reason Illustrator is a DOG! Like, I'm talking at least a half second delay to do ANYTHING! Photoshop is fine, but Illustrator is dumb. I've already repaired permissions. Not sure what the issue is.
     
Salty
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Feb 19, 2012, 02:42 AM
 
Correction ... I had a large traced image and it was the last thing I put into this file before updating to Mountain Lion ... in other news, AirTunes issues abound with my old AirPort express (running through a nearly new Dlink in bridge mode.)
     
besson3c
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Feb 19, 2012, 02:48 AM
 
Originally Posted by Salty View Post
I've already repaired permissions. Not sure what the issue is.
Permissions have nothing whatsoever to do with performance, don't even bother trying this again if you value your time
     
Salty
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Feb 19, 2012, 03:58 AM
 
I have an SSD it's quick. And also permissions sometimes causes weird delays in apps. I thought perhaps that was it hahaha. It's just my first step whenever I notice anything weird.
     
Salty
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Feb 19, 2012, 04:02 AM
 
Hey Besson, wanna take a crack at why my SSD is showing as having 80 gigs used when OmniDiskSweeper shows 39?
     
Spheric Harlot
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Feb 19, 2012, 07:06 AM
 
Originally Posted by Salty View Post
Hey Besson, wanna take a crack at why my SSD is showing as having 80 gigs used when OmniDiskSweeper shows 39?
Is OmniDiskSweeper showing the /private and /var directories, the sleep image, and the local Time Machine/versions store?

Edit: never mind. As per your other thread, you discovered and killed your SSD's performance buffer.
     
besson3c
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Feb 19, 2012, 12:23 PM
 
Originally Posted by Salty View Post
Hey Besson, wanna take a crack at why my SSD is showing as having 80 gigs used when OmniDiskSweeper shows 39?

What does a "df -h" command show?
     
besson3c
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Feb 19, 2012, 12:26 PM
 
Originally Posted by Salty View Post
And also permissions sometimes causes weird delays in apps.
Impossible.

Incorrect permissions either prevent external files from being read or written to, or they don't, but that failure is immediate.
     
Spheric Harlot
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Feb 19, 2012, 01:24 PM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
What does a "df -h" command show?
Check his other thread. He's "resolved" the issue.
http://forums.macnn.com/90/mac-os-x/...-space-on-ssd/
     
Salty
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Feb 19, 2012, 05:46 PM
 
Also, my AirPort Express is practically useless, I don't know if it's just the 802.11G ones that are getting these errors but iTunes and OS X in general seems to keep losing connection with my AirPort Express. I'm actually playing to it from my iPhone because I got so sick of it.
     
Spheric Harlot
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Feb 19, 2012, 05:54 PM
 
Submit a bug via ADC.

Seriously, those kinds of complaints about developer previews are so completely useless...
     
besson3c
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Feb 19, 2012, 05:59 PM
 
His reports are kind of useful for those who think that they might put the developer preview on a production machine and want to know if they can get away with this, but I would hope that this would pertain to very few of us.
     
Salty
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Feb 20, 2012, 03:10 AM
 
Honestly, unless you use an AirPort Express I can't think of a reason not to use Mountain Lion, that's the only real bug that I've run into. Well, aside from some general instability but no more than was in 7.0
     
Spheric Harlot
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Feb 20, 2012, 03:17 AM
 
Originally Posted by Salty View Post
Honestly, unless you use an AirPort Express I can't think of a reason not to use Mountain Lion, that's the only real bug that I've run into. Well, aside from some general instability but no more than was in 7.0
"Depending upon a functional machine for work" doesn't occur to you as a reason?
     
Waragainstsleep
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Feb 20, 2012, 05:38 AM
 
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
Salty
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Feb 20, 2012, 08:08 AM
 
Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot View Post
"Depending upon a functional machine for work" doesn't occur to you as a reason?
Obviously I'm not suggesting that video editors upgrade their work machines. But I've upgraded my primary machine and aside from the AirPort issue and one or two quirks. (None of which have resulted in anything lost.) It's significantly more stable than any of the betas Apple has previously released. I think by the time Mountain Lion reaches 8.0 it'll be more stable than 7.1 was.
     
besson3c
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Feb 20, 2012, 01:56 PM
 
Originally Posted by Salty View Post
Obviously I'm not suggesting that video editors upgrade their work machines. But I've upgraded my primary machine and aside from the AirPort issue and one or two quirks. (None of which have resulted in anything lost.) It's significantly more stable than any of the betas Apple has previously released. I think by the time Mountain Lion reaches 8.0 it'll be more stable than 7.1 was.

There is no way you can know this until you know that there has been a code freeze, and this is information that none of us have access to. Apple could decide to add features or make changes which break things, and they very likely will because summer is still a ways off.
     
imitchellg5  (op)
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Feb 20, 2012, 02:21 PM
 
They've only ever made minor changes to OSes since the days of Leopard developer releases.
     
besson3c
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Feb 20, 2012, 02:31 PM
 
Originally Posted by imitchellg5 View Post
They've only ever made minor changes to OSes since the days of Leopard developer releases.

What happens when Apple is ready to get people hammering away at their new file system, this will surely be a major change. Snow Leopard introduced a whole bunch of under the hood changes too, and one of these releases featured a rewritten Finder. What about Safari's problematic Webkit2?

If Mountain Lion is literally just the Lion code base and Apple has absolutely no intentions to touch any of this but will merely add on new applications and stuff, fine, but I wouldn't take anything as a given in the meantime without this knowledge. Has it been confirmed that 10.8 is just an add-on pack to 10.7 with absolutely no substantive lower level changes?
     
 
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