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You are here: MacNN Forums > Community > MacNN Lounge > Blu-ray/HD DVD... Who is winning?

View Poll Results: Which do you have? (Choose only ONE. Includes stand-alones and game consoles.)
Poll Options:
HD DVD 34 votes (17.09%)
Blu-ray 87 votes (43.72%)
Both 14 votes (7.04%)
Neither 70 votes (35.18%)
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 199. You may not vote on this poll
Blu-ray/HD DVD... Who is winning? (Page 138)
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Oversoul
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Feb 16, 2008, 11:25 AM
 
Reuters is now reporting that Toshiba is finalizing plans to end HD DVD:

Originally Posted by http://www.reuters.com/article/technologyNews/idUSL1637974620080216
Toshiba to give up on HD DVD, end format war: source | Technology | Reuters TOKYO (Reuters) - Toshiba Corp (6502.T: Quote, Profile, Research) is planning to give up on its HD DVD format for high-definition video, conceding defeat to the competing Blu-Ray technology backed by Sony Corp (6758.T: Quote, Profile, Research), a company source said on Saturday.

Japanese public broadcaster NHK had earlier reported that Toshiba would suffer losses in the tens of billions of yen (hundreds of millions of dollars) as it scrapped production of HD DVD players and recorders and took other steps to exit the business.

The company source told Reuters that Toshiba was in the final stages of planning to exit the HD DVD business and that an official decision would be made soon.
And an earlier report, picking up on a NHK story, noted that HD DVD was all but dead at Toshiba:
Originally Posted by http://www.reuters.com/article/companynewsandpr/idusl1627196120080216
TOKYO (Reuters) - Toshiba Corp is planning to stop production of equipment compatible with the HD DVD format for high-definition video, allowing the competing Blu-Ray camp a free run, public broadcaster NHK reported on Saturday.

Toshiba is expected to suffer losses amounting to tens of billions of yen (hundreds of millions of dollars) to scrap production of HD DVD players and recorders and other steps to exit the business, Japan's NHK said on its website.

No one at Toshiba could be reached for comment.

The format war between the Toshiba-backed HD DVD and Sony Corp's Blu-Ray, often compared to the Betamax-VHS battle in the 1980s, has slowed the development of what is expected to be a multibillion dollar high-definition DVD industry.

Toshiba was dealt a blow on Friday when Wal-Mart Stores Inc said it would abandon the HD DVD format, becoming the latest in a series of top retailers and movie studios to rally behind Blu-ray technology for high definition DVDs.

Toshiba plans to continue selling HD DVD equipment at stores for the time being but will not put resources into developing new devices, NHK said.
Should be interesting when Toshiba finally makes an announcement. And when will Universal and Paramount follow suit?
( Last edited by Oversoul; Feb 16, 2008 at 11:28 PM. )
     
analogue SPRINKLES
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Feb 16, 2008, 01:26 PM
 
What? Even with all the advantages to HD-DVD as computer storage and they aren't even trying?
     
analogue SPRINKLES
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Feb 16, 2008, 01:42 PM
 
Ya more than one place is convinced it is official over:
It's Official: Toshiba Pulling the Plug on HD DVD

Anywho, guess This is the one prediction I was wrong about as I thought it would take 3 months for this point not 2.

Guess that superbowl ad didn't work as well as they hoped.
     
starman
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Feb 16, 2008, 03:23 PM
 
Is it time to kill the thread?

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Brien
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Feb 16, 2008, 03:30 PM
 
Actually, if you count from the WB announcment, it's only been one month.

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analogue SPRINKLES
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Feb 16, 2008, 03:39 PM
 
     
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Feb 16, 2008, 04:27 PM
 
The war is over woohoo! I can't wait to see other companies besides Hitachi producing BD camcorders and maybe it will push someone to make a harddrive based recorder that records in full 1920X1080 resolution instead of 1440X1080 like you see with High Def DV tape format and AVCHD.

Also, 6X BD burners should be arriving soon too with that announcement of production of 6X writing BD drive assemblies a few days ago.

I don't see a future in HD DVD burners even for the computer now.
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icruise
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Feb 16, 2008, 05:36 PM
 
Originally Posted by Brien View Post
If by soon, you mean two or three years, sure. I'm not entirely sure it'll happen sooner. Maybe, who knows?
Well, not in a matter of months, but I think by 2010 it's entirely possible that the only DVD-only players on sale will be super cheap models for the low end market, and maybe portables. That is, of course, unless manufacturers decide to keep the prices of BR players artificially higher than DVD because they want to keep selling both. I don't think that would be in their best interest, though. The most likely way that BR will achieve mass acceptance is not by having large numbers of consumers consciously choose it over DVD, but rather by making it so that people essentially have no choice but to buy BR.
     
turtle777
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Feb 16, 2008, 05:42 PM
 
Why would anybody buy an el cheapo HD DVD player, if there is such a limited availability of titles ?

-t
     
icruise
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Feb 16, 2008, 05:44 PM
 
I'm not talking about HD-DVD players. Those will be off the market in months. I'm talking about regular DVD players.
     
turtle777
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Feb 16, 2008, 05:46 PM
 
Oh, sorry, I misunderstood.

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Kevin Moon
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Feb 16, 2008, 07:58 PM
 
Originally Posted by turtle777 View Post
Why would anybody buy an el cheapo HD DVD player, if there is such a limited availability of titles ?

-t
I agree with you turtle. Since Toshiba has halted production of the players it will only be a matter of time before those run out. After those run out the titles will be right behind those. I think the only reason one would buy a cheapo HD-DVD player now would be to have a decent upscaling DVD player. It wouldn't be because the future looks bright for HD-DVD.
     
turtle777
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Feb 16, 2008, 08:24 PM
 
Originally Posted by Kevin Moon View Post
I agree with you turtle.
I appreciate you agreeing with me, but I misunderstood, and so did you.

icruise was not talking about HD DVD, but plain ole regular DVD players.

-t
     
Kevin Moon
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Feb 16, 2008, 10:46 PM
 
I was just saying that because a lot of people are going to be looking at HD-DVD players with how cheap they are right now. Walmart in this area had HD-DVD players at 120 the other day marked down from $200. At that price point people that haven't been following the Blu-Ray/HD-DVD battle are going to be getting caught in the middle. I think once it became apparent that Blu-Ray was winning Toshiba should have just thrown the towel in instead of dragging this out for so long. It was clear in the middle of last year how this was going to end. I guess Toshiba wanted to try to make some of the money back from R&D on HD-DVD.
     
jokell82
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Feb 16, 2008, 11:04 PM
 
It didn't become apparent until about a month ago - so how fast exactly did you want Toshiba to move???

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Kevin Moon
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Feb 16, 2008, 11:46 PM
 
It was pretty apparent what was going to happen when the share of the market they were capturing was less than 50%. Toshiba was also the only ones making the hardware as everyone else bailed. The others couldn't compete at selling for such a huge loss. That should have been a red flag to those in charge that it probably isn't going to work out. The writing has been on the wall but those that were emotionally/financially attached ignored it and continue to do so.
     
jokell82
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Feb 17, 2008, 12:00 AM
 
Originally Posted by Kevin Moon View Post
It was pretty apparent what was going to happen when the share of the market they were capturing was less than 50%. Toshiba was also the only ones making the hardware as everyone else bailed. The others couldn't compete at selling for such a huge loss. That should have been a red flag to those in charge that it probably isn't going to work out. The writing has been on the wall but those that were emotionally/financially attached ignored it and continue to do so.
That just shows how little you know about what happened. Warner and Fox were both in talks to go HD DVD exclusive last month. Fox backing out (due to a Sony payoff) caused Warner to go Blu-Ray exclusive, which was the beginning of the end. Now if Fox hadn't backed out, we'd be in a completely different situation.

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Brien
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Feb 17, 2008, 12:17 AM
 
Originally Posted by icruise View Post
Well, not in a matter of months, but I think by 2010 it's entirely possible that the only DVD-only players on sale will be super cheap models for the low end market, and maybe portables. That is, of course, unless manufacturers decide to keep the prices of BR players artificially higher than DVD because they want to keep selling both. I don't think that would be in their best interest, though. The most likely way that BR will achieve mass acceptance is not by having large numbers of consumers consciously choose it over DVD, but rather by making it so that people essentially have no choice but to buy BR.
Well, the more and more I think about it...

BD players all have DVD playback; DVD players didn't do this and dual-decks didn't come along for a few years.

If prices do indeed continue to fall at this rate, I can see the CE's replacing DVD players with BD players and replacing DVD without the consumer even realizing it.
     
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Feb 17, 2008, 12:20 AM
 
It's about time this "war" was over. It was getting very tiring.
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Feb 17, 2008, 12:27 AM
 
Originally Posted by Kevin Moon View Post
I think the only reason one would buy a cheapo HD-DVD player now would be to have a decent upscaling DVD player. It wouldn't be because the future looks bright for HD-DVD.
I bought an A-3 tonight because my 5 year-old DVD player died. With the two discs in the box of movies I hadn't gotten around to buy and the price slashing coming up on some HD-DVD discs that I may want, I figured what the heck. I won't be getting a BR player until prices drop to $150 or so.

The HD-DVD player does upscale very nicely.
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Feb 17, 2008, 01:08 AM
 
Originally Posted by scottiB View Post
I bought an A-3 tonight because my 5 year-old DVD player died. With the two discs in the box of movies I hadn't gotten around to buy and the price slashing coming up on some HD-DVD discs that I may want, I figured what the heck. I won't be getting a BR player until prices drop to $150 or so.

The HD-DVD player does upscale very nicely.
I would not bother trying to get the five free movies through the send away offer as Toshiba was not sending out the freebies even before this pending announcement.

All Blu-ray and HD DVD players upscale nicely especially the PS3.

Good luck with your purchase.
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scottiB
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Feb 17, 2008, 01:28 AM
 
Originally Posted by aristotles View Post
I would not bother trying to get the five free movies through the send away offer as Toshiba was not sending out the freebies even before this pending announcement.

All Blu-ray and HD DVD players upscale nicely especially the PS3.

Good luck with your purchase.
None of the titles thrill me, but I'll send in the form. Just losing the cost of a stamp if they welsh.

I was trying to rationalize a Blu-Ray player, but couldn't justify the expense. This was a quick run to Circuit City - my wife and I were in the middle of a nip/tuck marathon when my DVD player died.
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loki74
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Feb 17, 2008, 03:03 AM
 
I just hope Apple implements BluRay authoring soon... AFAIK Encore is the only consumer/prosumer level option for that atm.

Although I guess that is kind of strange, being that the program itself is called DVD Studio Pro... hmm.

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Lateralus
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Feb 17, 2008, 03:17 AM
 
Originally Posted by aristotles View Post
I would not bother trying to get the five free movies through the send away offer as Toshiba was not sending out the freebies even before this pending announcement.
The bullshit around here is getting so deep you'd need a dredger to clear it.

Originally Posted by scottiB View Post
None of the titles thrill me, but I'll send in the form. Just losing the cost of a stamp if they welsh.

I was trying to rationalize a Blu-Ray player, but couldn't justify the expense. This was a quick run to Circuit City - my wife and I were in the middle of a nip/tuck marathon when my DVD player died.
Don't let the Blu Boys get you down.

I picked up my HD-A3 last month and have loaded up on nearly 30 titles. I also picked up a second player today on sale.

If HD DVD dies, your player will still work, there will be a huge selection of mark-down movies, and the movies will still be just as good as they were when they were released. Win-win.

And yes, Toshiba is still fulfilling and will continue to fulfill rebate offers. It just takes a while. All MIRs do.
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icruise
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Feb 17, 2008, 03:44 AM
 
Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
The bullshit around here is getting so deep you'd need a dredger to clear it.
Says the guy who claimed only 6 days ago that "the journey had just begun" in the war between HD-DVD and BR.

I picked up my HD-A3 last month and have loaded up on nearly 30 titles. I also picked up a second player today on sale.
I hope you got a good deal.

If HD DVD dies, your player will still work, there will be a huge selection of mark-down movies, and the movies will still be just as good as they were when they were released. Win-win.
HD-DVD is dead. Just yesterday they published an article in the Yomiuri Newspaper that started with this paragraph (translation mine):

Toshiba has decided to exit its HD DVD business, leaving the Sony-backed Blu-ray Disc (BD) the winner in the approximately six-year-long struggle over the high definition DVD standard.

Now it's true that your players and movies will continue to work, but I question the wisdom of buying too much into this format. HD-DVD wasn't around long enough to build up a large user base, which means that it's unlikely that hardware or software will continue to be produced after this year.
     
analogue SPRINKLES
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Feb 17, 2008, 03:58 AM
 
The part I find amusing is now that HD-DVD lost it is suddenly "Downloads are the future".

The interesting part is this was the quickest end to a format war of this nature AND high def disks are being adapted faster than DVD's were yet people think it is all doomed to fail to downloads.
     
turtle777
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Feb 17, 2008, 04:49 AM
 
Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
The bullshit around here is getting so deep you'd need a dredger to clear it.
EIPIC LULZ.

Enjoy your outdated hardware.

-t
     
Lateralus
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Feb 17, 2008, 05:47 AM
 
Outdated? HD DVD players are more full featured than Blu-ray players will be for a while.

I believe the word you're looking for is antiquated.
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Feb 17, 2008, 06:28 AM
 
Originally Posted by icruise View Post
HD-DVD is dead. Just yesterday they published an article in the Yomiuri Newspaper that started with this paragraph (translation mine):

Toshiba has decided to exit its HD DVD business, leaving the Sony-backed Blu-ray Disc (BD) the winner in the approximately six-year-long struggle over the high definition DVD standard.
Bummer. The bad guys won. Huh.
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ort888
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Feb 17, 2008, 11:20 AM
 
It amazes me that people seem to have so much personal attachment to a home video format.

People on both sides.

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starman
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Feb 17, 2008, 11:45 AM
 
Originally Posted by ort888 View Post
It amazes me that people seem to have so much personal attachment to a home video format.

People on both sides.
I never really got personally attached to either format. Yes, I hoped BR would win, but I really wouldn't care if it lost. I just wanted the damn war to be over.

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Feb 17, 2008, 12:14 PM
 
The PS3 is slot loading?
     
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Feb 17, 2008, 12:30 PM
 
^^ Yessum.
     
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Feb 17, 2008, 01:31 PM
 
Originally Posted by Lateralus View Post
Outdated? HD DVD players are more full featured than Blu-ray players will be for a while.
Oh please! Both formats have features the other did not. Face the facts, PIP and internet connectivity was not important enough to win the war for Toshiba. Other features are and will be more important. Things like consumer electronics support, studio support, larger disk space, better video and audio, etc.

And before someone goes off and states that the video/audio is identical let me reiterate. Larger disk space allows the same codec to use less compression. Larger disk space allows for "features" like lossless audio tracks. While I will admit that sometimes the extra space will either not be used or will not matter, but sometimes it will. An example often used is longer high quality movies like LOTR. The space issue has meant that fewer HD-DVD's have lossless audio tracks.

Oh, one last feature. Playing new releases next month, the month after that, etc. How many HD releases do think you can play, after Toshiba pulls the plug on manufacturing and Universal and Paramount stops pressing those disks? By all accounts that is not likely to happen months from now. It looks like it has already happened, with an official announcement due within days if not tomorrow.
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turtle777
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Feb 17, 2008, 01:35 PM
 
I find the poll results very interesting:

HD-DVD 27 votes (17.20%)
Blu-Ray 65 votes (41.40%)
Both 12 votes (7.64%)
Neither 57 votes (36.31%)

Given that those results reflect voting over the last months, and not just weeks, one should not be too surprised about HD losing the war.
The "Neither" gang is gonna join BR sooner or later giving it almost 80%.

Game over, HD.

-t
     
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Feb 17, 2008, 01:48 PM
 
Originally Posted by turtle777 View Post
I find the poll results very interesting:

HD-DVD 27 votes (17.20%)
Blu-Ray 65 votes (41.40%)
Both 12 votes (7.64%)
Neither 57 votes (36.31%)

Given that those results reflect voting over the last months, and not just weeks, one should not be too surprised about HD losing the war.
The "Neither" gang is gonna join BR sooner or later giving it almost 80%.

Game over, HD.

-t
That vote changed drastically when the Warner announcement hit. I don't think people were voting what they actually *had*, just what they wanted to win.

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icruise
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Feb 17, 2008, 01:55 PM
 
Yeah, I think there were some people who interpreted the poll to mean "which side do you think will win?" It was fairly close before the warner announcement, but the only time HD-DVD was even a little ahead of Blu-ray was just after Paramount announced they would be HD-DVD exclusive. I think the more interesting way to view the poll is simply as an indicator of how low interest in HD was in general, both by looking at the number of "Neither" votes, and the total number of votes.
     
turtle777
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Feb 17, 2008, 01:55 PM
 
Originally Posted by jokell82 View Post
That vote changed drastically when the Warner announcement hit. I don't think people were voting what they actually *had*, just what they wanted to win.
Are you sure about that ?

*I* at least did NOT vote because I don't own any of these.

But at any rate, even if people voted for their preference, in a thread with that much activity, it is hardly conceivable that most people would stay on the fence and DON'T vote until half a year later, when a major change occurred.

I think most people voted right at the beginning, and only a few stragglers later on.
But then, what do I know. It is what is it right now, BR won.

-t
     
jokell82
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Feb 17, 2008, 01:59 PM
 
The vote DRASTICALLY changed about a month ago. It was pretty even up until the Warner announcement, with "neither" winning handily.

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Oversoul
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Feb 17, 2008, 02:03 PM
 
It would be interesting if the Neithers could take back their vote and vote again for HD DVD or Blu-ray. I suspect Blu-ray would pick up a few more votes. If I remember correctly, I think HD DVD has only picked up maybe 3 votes in the last month.
     
sek929
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Feb 17, 2008, 03:08 PM
 
I said neither since I despise things that rape the consumer. Having two formats would have kept me out of the HD realm for as long as the battle lasted. Luckily all the BS has cleared and we have a winner.

Now that Blu-ray has won I would change my answer to reflect my future purchases.
     
analogue SPRINKLES
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Feb 17, 2008, 03:18 PM
 
Right before Xmas the poll here was almost 50/50 and before that HD-DVD was in the lead for quite a while.
     
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Feb 17, 2008, 03:34 PM
 
the samsung BD-1500 is profile 1.1 and has an ethernet connection for firmware updates. can this be updated to 2.0?
     
jokell82
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Feb 17, 2008, 03:35 PM
 
Originally Posted by Chongo View Post
the samsung BD-1500 is profile 1.1 and has an ethernet connection for firmware updates. can this be updated to 2.0?
Probably not unless it meets the storage requirements (1gig on board) for 2.0.

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turtle777
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Feb 17, 2008, 03:39 PM
 
Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES View Post
Right before Xmas the poll here was almost 50/50 and before that HD-DVD was in the lead for quite a while.
This would mean that many people indeed waited (and did not participate in the poll) until a clear winner was chosen.

This would also tell us that people indeed voted on OWNERSHIP, not just preference.

-t
     
jokell82
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Feb 17, 2008, 03:46 PM
 
Originally Posted by turtle777 View Post
This would mean that many people indeed waited (and did not participate in the poll) until a clear winner was chosen.

This would also tell us that people indeed voted on OWNERSHIP, not just preference.

-t
Actually an unscientific poll can tell us neither of those.

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turtle777
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Feb 17, 2008, 04:16 PM
 
Originally Posted by jokell82 View Post
Actually an unscientific poll can tell us neither of those.
Of course it can. I did not make any claim of this being representative, but this poll CAN give indications.

-t
     
jokell82
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Feb 17, 2008, 04:33 PM
 
Originally Posted by turtle777 View Post
Of course it can. I did not make any claim of this being representative, but this poll CAN give indications.

-t
All this poll tells us is which format people prefer. We've already had people post that they voted without owning the format they picked.

And since I don't remember anyone coming in and saying they went out and bought Blu-Ray after the Warner announcement, really what it shows is that people like to vote for the winner.

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turtle777
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Location: planning a comeback !
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Feb 17, 2008, 04:43 PM
 
Originally Posted by jokell82 View Post
All this poll tells us is which format people prefer. We've already had people post that they voted without owning the format they picked.

And since I don't remember anyone coming in and saying they went out and bought Blu-Ray after the Warner announcement, really what it shows is that people like to vote for the winner.
Dude, that's exactly what I said in my first point

-t
     
angelmb
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Feb 17, 2008, 04:48 PM
 
Originally Posted by starman View Post
Is it time to kill the thread?
…to start the which Mac is going to receive a Blu-Ray drive first and let people fight again !!
     
 
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