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analogue SPRINKLES · Mar 12, 2007, 11:41 AM

Personally I thought we would have found out lots more info about Leopard at the January keynote but it was a no show.

Will all those top secret features that we all assume will be huge it is odd that not even the developer builds have them in it yet?

Either this means the secret stuff is something that Apple can stick in last minute without much tweaking needed by developers or the secret stuff is just new iApps.

I'm not so sure Apple can drastically change the interface or low level technologies and not give devs time to test and tweak their apps.

Even the current dev builds are just having some new minor additions added which are apparently buggy as hell.

Anywho, Steve said Spring which ends in June so that gives them a few more months to finalize things and meet that promise.

I wouldn't be surprised though if Apple showed us what the top secret things are to wow us and then tell us they want to spend till sometime in the summer/fall to release it to make sure everything is in tip top shape.

mduell · Mar 12, 2007, 12:00 PM

Given their release schedule for the last 4 versions, it's already a year overdue... either they're hiding a lot of big features, or they've taken a lot of developers off OS X to work on other projects.

analogue SPRINKLES · Mar 12, 2007, 12:09 PM

Originally Posted by mduell

Given their release schedule for the last 4 versions, it's already a year overdue... either they're hiding a lot of big features, or they've taken a lot of developers off OS X to work on other projects.

Didn't Apple Say after the release of 10.3 that they could no longer deliver a major OS upgrade every 12 months?

I rather wait a few more months and get some really amazing stuff that would blow away VISTA as what we currently know about Leopard is rather bland.

Chuckit · Mar 12, 2007, 12:10 PM

Originally Posted by mduell

Given their release schedule for the last 4 versions, it's already a year overdue... either they're hiding a lot of big features, or they've taken a lot of developers off OS X to work on other projects.

Apple said Leopard was supposed to take longer.

Anyway, I certainly expect Leopard on time still. Five months is plenty of time for Apple to get it right.

voodoo · Mar 12, 2007, 12:14 PM

Waiting for Leopard, by Sam Beckett.

V

analogue SPRINKLES · Mar 12, 2007, 12:23 PM

Originally Posted by Chuckit

Apple said Leopard was supposed to take longer.

Anyway, I certainly expect Leopard on time still. Five months is plenty of time for Apple to get it right.

Doesn't summer start on June 21st? That give them 3 months to have it in the store.

centerchannel68 · Mar 12, 2007, 12:34 PM

I really don't see the draw to leopard, other than the GPU taking more strain off the CPU. That time machine feature seems like automater...neat...but mostly unusable to the average joe.

vmarks · Mar 12, 2007, 12:36 PM

Leopard has a lot of niceties to offer the average user, judging by what's in the Apple page on it.

Spring. Didn't say Spring of this year, did they?

analogue SPRINKLES · Mar 12, 2007, 12:51 PM

Originally Posted by centerchannel68

I really don't see the draw to leopard, other than the GPU taking more strain off the CPU. That time machine feature seems like automater...neat...but mostly unusable to the average joe.

Ya me neither. Time Machine is nice but it looks like it is more of a user interface nightmare than Spotlight. Plus anyone serious about backups won't use it anyway.

Most of the other stuff you can do with 3rd party add ons today.

I think the secret to leopard is Core Animation and the wicked interface and interaction capabilities that come with it so Apple better put out something that makes Vista look like old news like the Zune.

Dakar² · Mar 12, 2007, 12:55 PM

Originally Posted by voodoo

Waiting for Leopard, by Sam Beckett.

V

::maroma:: · Mar 12, 2007, 01:09 PM

Originally Posted by Dakar²

Best. Show. Ever?

Philip J. Fry · Mar 12, 2007, 01:10 PM

Originally Posted by vmarks

Leopard has a lot of niceties to offer the average user, judging by what's in the Apple page on it.

Spring. Didn't say Spring of this year, did they?

Sadly, yes.

Originally Posted by http://www.apple.com/macosx/leopard/

Get ready, get set, get Leopard
All these features and more are delivered to you in one universal, fully accessible, 64-bit operating system. Coming spring 2007.

Dakar² · Mar 12, 2007, 01:15 PM

Originally Posted by ::maroma::

Best. Show. Ever?

Not ever, though it's final episode may well be.

mac128k-1984 · Mar 12, 2007, 01:18 PM

Has apple even committed to a release date. As far as I know, they've only said sometime in 07

::maroma:: · Mar 12, 2007, 01:27 PM

Originally Posted by mac128k-1984

Has apple even committed to a release date. As far as I know, they've only said sometime in 07

They said Spring 2007. Spring hasn't even started yet, and ends on June 20th. I predict a joint release of Leopard and the iPhone in July sometime.

Nodnarb · Mar 12, 2007, 01:34 PM

I don't thinki leapord will come with iPhone, but I do think they'll release it along side iLife '07 and iWork '07...hopefully before WWDC and then get to explain it all there? you know steve likes to show off all three of those, so there would either have to be a special event or at WWDC, none of those will just be silently released

Chuckit · Mar 12, 2007, 01:39 PM

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES

Ya me neither. Time Machine is nice but it looks like it is more of a user interface nightmare than Spotlight.

Point-and-click too difficult for you?

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES

Plus anyone serious about backups won't use it anyway.

Maybe not, but that's the point: Backups are really important, but the vast majority of people don't take them seriously. This gives people the protection without putting the burden on them. Not only that, but they've thrown in some of the functionality of a versioning system as well. Unless Apple seriously ****s it up, Time Machine is a killer feature, more so than almost anything else I can think of in any OS X upgrade.

analogue SPRINKLES · Mar 12, 2007, 01:50 PM

Originally Posted by Chuckit

Point-and-click too difficult for you?

If that is all that is needed of any app to be easy it is a wonder why usability is taken seriously at all.

Chuckit · Mar 12, 2007, 01:59 PM

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES

If that is all that is needed of any app to be easy it is a wonder why usability is taken seriously at all.

No, I mean, what is difficult? You click Time Machine. You go back to the the date you are interested in, click on the thing you want and hit Restore. How is that more difficult than, say, using the Finder? I'm fully convinced my mom could figure it out within a minute.

analogue SPRINKLES · Mar 12, 2007, 02:11 PM

Originally Posted by Chuckit

No, I mean, what is difficult? You click Time Machine. You go back to the the date you are interested in, click on the thing you want and hit Restore. How is that more difficult than, say, using the Finder? I'm fully convinced my mom could figure it out within a minute.

Sure, now picture a bunch of stuff in different folders and not knowing exactly what date has the one you want.

That is like saying you just have to go into spotlight and type the name of the file you want. In reality Spotlight is a confusing mess.

Chuckit · Mar 12, 2007, 02:26 PM

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES

Sure, now picture a bunch of stuff in different folders and not knowing exactly what date has the one you want.

So you check with QuickLook. That's hardly an unsurmountable problem. I still fail to see what you believe needs to be improved.

Sub · Mar 12, 2007, 02:35 PM

What major enhancements does leopard have over tiger? I know tima machine is great, but are they waiting to launch some better apps or something?

analogue SPRINKLES · Mar 12, 2007, 02:43 PM

Originally Posted by Chuckit

So you check with QuickLook. That's hardly an unsurmountable problem. I still fail to see what you believe needs to be improved.

Have you used time machine yet?

Nodnarb · Mar 12, 2007, 02:53 PM

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES

Have you used time machine yet?

Have you?

Chuckit · Mar 12, 2007, 02:54 PM

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES

Have you used time machine yet?

If I had, I couldn't talk about it, could I? I'm just going by what has been released or leaked so far.

Aron Peterson · Mar 12, 2007, 04:31 PM

Originally Posted by ::maroma::

Best. Show. Ever?

The first series was!

GSixZero · Mar 12, 2007, 04:37 PM

Apple gave Vista so much flack for running late they'd look bad if they delayed their own release. From all reports it sounds like Leopard development is wrapping up, so I would be surprised if it's pushed into the summer or fall.

analogue SPRINKLES · Mar 12, 2007, 04:39 PM

Originally Posted by Nodnarb

Have you?

Yes.

Chuckit · Mar 12, 2007, 04:54 PM

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES

Yes.

Interesting. And something about the UI (that you refuse to specify) prevents you from scrubbing backwards to find what you need??

imitchellg5 · Mar 12, 2007, 04:59 PM

Originally Posted by vmarks

Leopard has a lot of niceties to offer the average user, judging by what's in the Apple page on it.

Spring. Didn't say Spring of this year, did they?

Yes. Guys, spring hasn't even started yet. Jeeze.

analogue SPRINKLES · Mar 12, 2007, 05:05 PM

Originally Posted by Chuckit

Interesting. And something about the UI (that you refuse to specify) prevents you from scrubbing backwards to find what you need??

because you are thinking of just wanting to find one little word file you deleted in the finder and now want back. There are a million other situations that make the TM ui much more confusing to use or understand.

Chuckit · Mar 12, 2007, 05:44 PM

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES

because you are thinking of just wanting to find one little word file you deleted in the finder and now want back. There are a million other situations that make the TM ui much more confusing to use or understand.

Well, the specific situation I was thinking of is actually one in which somebody turned a picture black-and-white and saved it over the original, and I want to recover the pretty version. But the question remains: What specifically are you unhappy with? What are these "million other situations" you're in where you're unable to use Time Machine? So far, I have no idea what you're having trouble with and why Time Machine is giving you trouble in these situations.

centerchannel68 · Mar 12, 2007, 06:00 PM

I just feel it's going to be really, REALLY confusing and require MASSIVE hard drive space for any professional user.

mduell · Mar 12, 2007, 06:05 PM

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES

Didn't Apple Say after the release of 10.3 that they could no longer deliver a major OS upgrade every 12 months?

I rather wait a few more months and get some really amazing stuff that would blow away VISTA as what we currently know about Leopard is rather bland.

Originally Posted by Chuckit

Apple said Leopard was supposed to take longer.

Anyway, I certainly expect Leopard on time still. Five months is plenty of time for Apple to get it right.

I'm not saying the delay wasn't planned, I'm just saying they don't have much to show for the increased timeframe, so they're either hiding big things or they may have reduced staffing.

Chuckit · Mar 12, 2007, 06:14 PM

Originally Posted by mduell

I'm not saying the delay wasn't planned, I'm just saying they don't have much to show for the increased timeframe, so they're either hiding big things or they may have reduced staffing.

Core Animation, resolution independence, Spaces, Time Machine, complete 64-bitness, and the many revamps and APIs to take advantage of multiple processors are nothing? Most of this is under the hood, but still, that's a lot of big changes. I can't think of any other single OS X release that had so much, and I still believe there's stuff Apple's hiding.

Gossamer · Mar 12, 2007, 06:34 PM

Originally Posted by Chuckit

Core Animation, resolution independence, Spaces, Time Machine, complete 64-bitness, and the many revamps and APIs to take advantage of multiple processors are nothing? Most of this is under the hood, but still, that's a lot of big changes. I can't think of any other single OS X release that had so much, and I still believe there's stuff Apple's hiding.

Bah. Does it look pretty?

analogue SPRINKLES · Mar 12, 2007, 06:38 PM

Originally Posted by Chuckit

Well, the specific situation I was thinking of is actually one in which somebody turned a picture black-and-white and saved it over the original, and I want to recover the pretty version. But the question remains: What specifically are you unhappy with? What are these "million other situations" you're in where you're unable to use Time Machine? So far, I have no idea what you're having trouble with and why Time Machine is giving you trouble in these situations.

My problem is the version I used things got very confusing in real life use when you had to find a bunch of files or ones with small variations.

imitchellg5 · Mar 12, 2007, 08:00 PM

Originally Posted by Gossamer

Bah. Does it look pretty?

If you have good enough hardware yes.

UNTeMac · Mar 12, 2007, 10:14 PM

The pace of screenshots from the developer builds has been pretty steady. (You know where to look for those.) I've noticed though that not much has changed in each release toward the final version that will ship and we're still apparently months from a release date.

It looks to me like the features we were shown already have been very nearly ready for a long while now and Apple is staying VERY tight lipped about a major overhaul. Time machine and internet widgets are enough to persuade me to buy but I hope the Finder is the real reason for 10.5.

imitchellg5 · Mar 12, 2007, 10:21 PM

Apple's changed a lot of small stuff so far. They have new screensavers now among other things. It's looking close to being done to me.

Chuckit · Mar 12, 2007, 10:27 PM

Originally Posted by UNTeMac

The pace of screenshots from the developer builds has been pretty steady. (You know where to look for those.) I've noticed though that not much has changed in each release toward the final version that will ship and we're still apparently months from a release date.

My thoughts exactly. I expect to see these features announced in the next few weeks, personally, because Apple will need to give developers time to try out the new features and bang on them and see what breaks. Although I still stand by my assertion that what Leopard includes that we already know about is as much as any two other versions just by itself.

brassplayersrock² · Mar 15, 2007, 12:27 AM

since it is using core anmation and all that jazz. will my 1ghz tipb with a whopping 1 gig of ram and 100 gig 7200rpm hd be able to run it alright?

-a

Chuckit · Mar 15, 2007, 01:03 AM

Originally Posted by brassplayersrock

since it is using core anmation and all that jazz. will my 1ghz tipb with a whopping 1 gig of ram and 100 gig 7200rpm hd be able to run it alright?

-a

Should be able to. The requirements for Core Animation are no higher than for Core Image, and I'm pretty sure that PowerBook works fine with Core Image. (And incidentally, Core Animation should actually increase animation performance in many cases, since it provides a single, highly optimized animation library for everyone to use.)

brassplayersrock² · Mar 15, 2007, 01:05 AM

sweet. thank you Chuckit.

alex

Gossamer · Mar 15, 2007, 02:04 AM

Originally Posted by brassplayersrock

sweet. thank you Chuckit.

alex

Wow, chuckit got the full name, not just the turtle-esque "-a"

brassplayersrock² · Mar 15, 2007, 03:38 AM

tried it for a while, got tired of it. will be doing full name now. Still gunna call you gossy though

alex

Dakar² · Mar 15, 2007, 08:23 AM

Originally Posted by Gossamer

Wow, chuckit got the full name, not just the turtle-esque "-a"

Huh?

Aron Peterson · Mar 15, 2007, 08:49 AM

I predict Sheets (those Open and Save dialogues) will be replaced by Morph. Toast 8 already has a morphing window. iPhone also has morphing windows. Now it is time for OS X to have it system wide. That's not the secret hotsauce Apple has yet to unveil though. New Finder maybe. Totally new way of managing files with the power of your brain connected to a Bluetooth implant.

analogue SPRINKLES · Mar 15, 2007, 11:16 AM

Originally Posted by Aron Peterson

I predict Sheets (those Open and Save dialogues) will be replaced by Morph. Toast 8 already has a morphing window. iPhone also has morphing windows. Now it is time for OS X to have it system wide. That's not the secret hotsauce Apple has yet to unveil though. New Finder maybe. Totally new way of managing files with the power of your brain connected to a Bluetooth implant.

That would suck as the morph hides whatever file it is you are trying to save.

Gossamer · Mar 15, 2007, 11:25 AM

Originally Posted by Dakar²

Huh?

bpr used to sign his posts "-a" just like what_the_heck did with the "-t," but apparently he moved to the full name.