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The Official MacNN COVID-19 Thread (Page 28)
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OreoCookie
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Yesterday, 07:23 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
Well, any ideology is going to have internal conflicts the adherent will need to prioritize. I prioritize personal liberty. If a potential organ donor is aware of the risks (such as the recipient ruining the organ) and still willingly wants to donate, I don’t think they should be denied on the basis of risk.
That sounds to me like you want to have your cake and eat it, too. You want others to do something they don’t want to do.

When you prioritize personal liberty, i. e. you prioritize yourself, you must give others the same right — reciprocity. And you have to accept when other people’s or organizations decisions do not align with your whims and interests. Part of that is that you can say, you can’t make me do X where X = taking the vaccine or getting a handle on your eating disorder. That’s your business. But reciprocity means that you can’t make others do Y either. Understanding or sound reasoning by the other party is not required.

To be honest, this is an inconsistency that I see with a lot of libertarians who are big on personal liberty if that means that they can do what they want, but often do not want to bear the responsibility and consequences for their personal choices. But IMHO if you claim that personal liberty/choice is your top priority (as you have done in your post), you need to afford the same rights to others.
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subego
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Yesterday, 08:10 PM
 
Which others? People paying into the insurance pool?
     
OreoCookie
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Yesterday, 09:18 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
Which others? People paying into the insurance pool?
There are plenty of stakeholders, I can think of off the top of my head, e. g. hospitals (as an organization), hospital staff (doctors, nurses, X-ray techs, etc.), other potential patients, people paying into the insurance pool, etc. At the very least, you'd be forcing doctors, OR nurses and nurses to perform a surgery that they don't want to perform and take care of you afterwards.

If you want others to respect your choices and accept that they cannot tell you what to do, you need to afford others the same respect. Otherwise, you are not a libertarian, you are just selfish.
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subego
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Yesterday, 09:32 PM
 
I’ve addressed most of, if not all these points.

If the hospital doesn’t have the resources, obviously they shouldn’t do the transplant.
If the doctor feels the stress of the operation isn’t worth it they have the right to refuse.
If the insurance company doesn’t want to pay, than so be it.

Am I not making these points explicit enough?
     
OreoCookie
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Yesterday, 09:43 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
Am I not making these points explicit enough?
None of them matter if you view it through the lens of prioritizing your liberty. I'm not saying this is the only lens to view this through, but you brought it up, and I think it is worth exploring.

It is really simple: if the patient gets told if you don't do X, we cannot/will not perform procedure Y, and the patient chooses not to do X, they have to accept that they will not receive Y. It is the flipside of the coin of personal choice, personal responsibility. This is especially true for simple asks like getting vaccinated, which is much harder than losing a large amount of weight, dealing with a serious eating disorder or alcoholism. Please do not get hung up on the examples, the point is that the ask is a simple thing to do with little to no risk (at least that is the best available knowledge).
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