Welcome to the MacNN Forums.

striker100 · Oct 3, 2004, 09:46 PM

Virtual PC 7 is shipping, has anyone received it and running it on a Powermac G5? I'm curious how it performs.

DarylF2 · Oct 4, 2004, 10:42 AM

I received my copy (as part of the Office 2004 Pro Upgrade I bought from Amazon.com) on Saturday. It installed smoothly and the included Windows XP Pro installation works very well. I upgraded my old Windows 2000 Pro "disk" from Virtual PC 6 and, although VPC7 warned that it was "unsupported" it works fine (and the Virtual PC additions installed fine as well). My Windows 2000 "disk"'s applications, including Office 2000 Premium, Visual C++ 6, and Total Annihilation, all work well and are very fast and perfectly usable.

For "office" type applications (Word, Excel, Outlook, Access, etc.), my "virtual" PC seems about as fast as a real PC. For games, I've only tried Total Annihilation and it works VERY well, but it is a pretty old (circa 1997) games that doesn't use graphics hardware acceleration as most newer 3D games do.

I'm running on a Dual 2.5 GHz Power Mac G5 with 2.0GB RAM and an ATI Radeon 9800XT 256MB video card. My "virtual" PC is running Windows 2000 with 512MB RAM and 8MB Video RAM allocated to it. With this setup, Virtual PC 7 is usable for everything I need a PC for, except perhaps for running new games (not a priority for me, and I'm happy with games that are Mac OS X native).

I'm pretty busy with work these days, but I'll try and run some PC benchmarks and perhaps try Photoshop 7 on VPC7 as well.

Do you have any specific questions regarding VPC7?

absmiths · Oct 4, 2004, 12:03 PM

Originally posted by DarylF2:
I received my copy (as part of the Office 2004 Pro Upgrade I bought from Amazon.com) on Saturday. It installed smoothly and the included Windows XP Pro installation works very well. I upgraded my old Windows 2000 Pro "disk" from Virtual PC 6 and, although VPC7 warned that it was "unsupported" it works fine (and the Virtual PC additions installed fine as well). My Windows 2000 "disk"'s applications, including Office 2000 Premium, Visual C++ 6, and Total Annihilation, all work well and are very fast and perfectly usable.

I have two questions:

1 - So, previous VPC disks are "unsupported"? That's crap if it's true.

2 - Did you notice any difference between VPC 6 and 7? Is it worth purchasing, or is it yet another name update?

Person Man · Oct 4, 2004, 02:35 PM

Originally posted by absmiths:
I have two questions:

1 - So, previous VPC disks are "unsupported"? That's crap if it's true.

Probably any operating system earlier than Windows XP Service Pack 2 (and any non-Microsoft operating system) will display the "not supported" warning.

DarylF2 · Oct 4, 2004, 03:34 PM

I think any OS other than those shipped with VPC7 (only WinXP Home and Pro, probably) will show up as unsupported, but that doesn't seem to affect anything. Win2K works perfectly, as did Knoppix Linux. I'm downloading Red Hat Fedora now to try later.

In terms of comparisons with VPC6, its hard to tell. I ran VPC6 on a Dual 1.0 GHz G4 with 1.5GB RAM, and run VPC7 on a Dual 2.5 GHz G5 with 2.0GB RAM. It does seem reasonably fast, though.

Edit: To clarify, the OS version was unsupported, not the previous version's disk. VPC7 will convert virtual disks from VPC5 (disk only, not virtual machine settings or undo file) and VPC6 (disk as well as virtual machine settings and undo file). I'm pretty sure the warning for unsupported operating systems ONLY appears when converting one from a VPC5/6 disk file, and not when installing them fresh.

RonnieoftheRose · Oct 4, 2004, 05:02 PM

Originally posted by DarylF2:
I think any OS other than those shipped with VPC7 (only WinXP Home and Pro, probably) will show up as unsupported, but that doesn't seem to affect anything. Win2K works perfectly, as did Knoppix Linux. I'm downloading Red Hat Fedora now to try later.

Don't waste your time with Fedora. It runs ten times slower than XP in VPC and apps tend not to launch.

DarylF2 · Oct 4, 2004, 05:31 PM

Originally posted by RonnieoftheRose:
Don't waste your time with Fedora. It runs ten times slower than XP in VPC and apps tend not to launch.

Really? What fairly easy-to-use and fairly easy-to-install Linux do you recommend?

Sarc · Oct 4, 2004, 08:45 PM

Originally posted by DarylF2:
Really? What fairly easy-to-use and fairly easy-to-install Linux do you recommend?

mandrake

iluvmypowerbook · Oct 4, 2004, 10:19 PM

Originally posted by Sarc:
mandrake

Why Mandrake? I hear Yellow Dog Linux version 4.0 is soon to be released. Would you say Mandrake is better and why?

goMac · Oct 4, 2004, 11:28 PM

Originally posted by iluvmypowerbook:
Why Mandrake? I hear Yellow Dog Linux version 4.0 is soon to be released. Would you say Mandrake is better and why?

YDL won't run in VPC.

Sarc · Oct 5, 2004, 12:16 AM

... because mandrake is the most user-friendly Linux distro out there (if there is such a thing ...).
It has wizards and all that crap.

anyway, the post asked for a easy to use, x86 Linux distro ... hence, mandrake.

it will run slow with the default config. though. It needs to be tuned down.

RonnieoftheRose · Oct 5, 2004, 12:53 AM

Originally posted by DarylF2:
Really? What fairly easy-to-use and fairly easy-to-install Linux do you recommend?

There's nothing wrong with Fedora itself. It's very easy to install and run. The problem is VPC runs every flavor of Linux I have tried to install like molasses. I don't know where the problem lies.

DarylF2 · Oct 5, 2004, 01:00 PM

Oddly, Fedora Core 2 won't even install, it seems. I had already downloaded most of its 4GB install DVD iso image, so I finished the download and tried it. It gets past the initial install screens, detects the virtual video card, monitor, and mouse, then the screen goes black and it appears to hang... Maybe it just takes this stage a LONG time to finish? I'll give it some more time, and then abort if it doesn't progress in an hour or so.

I'll download Mandrake and try it next...

iluvmypowerbook · Oct 5, 2004, 05:20 PM

Sorry to get off track with this but does Mandrake need to be installed onto VPC? If that is so then use Yellow Dog Linux. It doesn't need an emulator. Just partition your drive, install YDL on one and OSX on the other.

Dennis the Phantom Menace · Oct 5, 2004, 07:16 PM

Fedora Core 2 is pretty flaky on real Wintel machines. It doesn't surprise me that it's flaky on an emulated one.
Fedora Core 1 should work alright. Core 3 Test 2 might be worth trying too.

samslaves · Oct 6, 2004, 09:08 AM

This is my SHORT review and I'm very excited.

My system is a dual 2.0 ghz rev.a 2GB ati radeon 9800pro 128MB. Last night i went to install vpc7. the first operating system i installed is w2000as. the installation proceeded extremly fast. after rebooting... well the sytem is very responsive: window refreshes, menus... at this point I feel using vpc7+w2000as more responsive than the same config on my T41 IBM with VMWare!

The virtual w2000as pc is configured at maximum vpc can offer: 512MB ram + 16MB vram

Now i'm installing suse 9.1 PE... stay tuned!
Then i will install the .net studio enterprise suite...

I hope that microshit improves vpc in the next few months: more ram more vram and 3d acceleration (3d?).

In the next few days i hope to load a taken movie to my home page to show you how vpc7 in realtime.

Sam

PS: 2,0ghz and 2,5ghz owners this is a must have. 3,0ghz future owners... congrats for your new 'real' pc.

samslaves · Oct 6, 2004, 09:12 AM

Originally posted by samslaves:
This is my SHORT review and I'm very excited.

My system is a dual 2.0 ghz rev.a 2GB ati radeon 9800pro 128MB. Last night i went to install vpc7. the first operating system i installed is w2000as. the installation proceeded extremly fast. after rebooting... well the sytem is very responsive: window refreshes, menus... at this point I feel using vpc7+w2000as more responsive than the same config on my T41 IBM with VMWare!

The virtual w2000as pc is configured at maximum vpc can offer: 512MB ram + 16MB vram

Now i'm installing suse 9.1 PE... stay tuned!
Then i will install the .net studio enterprise suite...

I hope that microshit improves vpc in the next few months: more ram more vram and 3d acceleration (3d?).

In the next few days i hope to load a taken movie to my home page to show you vpc7 realtime responsiveness.

Sam

PS: 2,0ghz and 2,5ghz owners this is a must have. 3,0ghz future owners... congrats for your new 'real' pc.

videian28 · Oct 6, 2004, 10:01 AM

interesting, this actually sounds good, stick VPC on fast user switching and it is like having 2 computers, not to shabby, I will be able to totally dump my windows machine

samslaves · Oct 6, 2004, 10:56 AM

Originally posted by samslaves:

Linux Suse 9.1 PE is now into the trash. Too slow. I think VPC7 is ultra optimized for Windows. Not bad not bad. OS X do the trick and Yellow Dog Linux 4.0 is out. Now I have to install the dev studio for real work apps other than IE and AS Enterprise utilites.

Sam

PS: the color depth I use in win under vpc7 is 32bits. And 32bits the color depth in OSX. I think the redraw is a little bit faster. Probably I'm wrong. A nice thing is that opengl screensaver like pipes are very fast and fluid.

Gee4orce · Oct 7, 2004, 03:26 AM

I tried running version 7 against an updated Windows 98 disk, and it didn't feel any faster on a Dual 1.8 G5 than it did on my old 700Mhz G4. There's obviously a lot of optimisation going on for VP7 & WinXP.

samslaves · Oct 7, 2004, 09:39 AM

Installing W2003Server for a direct vmware comparision (installed on IBM T41 notebook)...

tikki · Oct 7, 2004, 11:53 PM

My copy arrived today, and I have had absolutely no luck getting any flavor of Linux installed. I have exhausted my entire collection of discs: Fedora Core 2, Mandrake 9.2, Debian 3.0. Kinda frustrating since one of the reasons I had my department buy it was to easily test our web sites on Linux.

Anyone offer any tips?

RonnieoftheRose · Oct 8, 2004, 12:42 AM

Originally posted by tikki:
My copy arrived today, and I have had absolutely no luck getting any flavor of Linux installed. I have exhausted my entire collection of discs: Fedora Core 2, Mandrake 9.2, Debian 3.0. Kinda frustrating since one of the reasons I had my department buy it was to easily test our web sites on Linux.

Anyone offer any tips?

I have the first core release of Fedora and that installs fine. Slow and buggy as hell to run. You should be able to find older releases on Red Hat's FTP server. Remember to use rewritable discs as it's not worth wasting discs on Linux. My main tip would be not to waste time trying to run Linux on VPC as it's too slow to use and it's better to install Fink and KDE on OSX if you want to test websites with browsers that come with Linux. They can be downloaded with Fink.

iDriveX · Oct 8, 2004, 03:48 AM

I've got a pretty neat review:

I installed VPC 7.0 on an upgraded G4 Cube with a 1.0 Ghz G4 Chip and a Radeon 7500 in it. 1.5 GB Actual RAM as well. It is connected to a 22" Cinema Display. The OS I'm using is Windows 2000 Advanced Server.

When running in full screen mode I would say there is a 30-50% increase in screen redraw time for things like windows and how fast the start menu materializes. The entire OS seems much more engaged and you seem like you are working with the machine and less waiting for the machine. I can only imagine that this would absolutely fly on a G5.

samslaves · Oct 8, 2004, 04:10 AM

Originally posted by iDriveX:
I've got a pretty neat review:

I installed VPC 7.0 on an upgraded G4 Cube with a 1.0 Ghz G4 Chip and a Radeon 7500 in it. 1.5 GB Actual RAM as well. It is connected to a 22" Cinema Display. The OS I'm using is Windows 2000 Advanced Server.

When running in full screen mode I would say there is a 30-50% increase in screen redraw time for things like windows and how fast the start menu materializes. The entire OS seems much more engaged and you seem like you are working with the machine and less waiting for the machine. I can only imagine that this would absolutely fly on a G5.

Forget Linux, forget Windows 2003... Yes Windows 2000 AS is very responsive.

videian28 · Oct 8, 2004, 10:01 AM

has anyone ran into this problem?

http://www.hardmac.com/niouzcontenu....004-10-08#3002

Dennis the Phantom Menace · Oct 8, 2004, 05:07 PM

So has anybody tried VPC 7 on a G5 with more than 2 GB of RAM? Supposedly VPC 7 has bugs when running on those systems and I'd like to know just how bad they are.

Unseelie · Oct 8, 2004, 05:41 PM

I have tried Red Hat 9 and Mandrake 9.1 and they installed and were usable. I'm not a major linux head, so I can't swear that *everything* was working.

The G5 >2gb memory bug is significant. I was unable to install until I removed the RAM, and adding the RAM back in after the install seemed to result in a significantly less stable machine. Support did say that it should be addressed shortly.