[lpkmckenna]

Originally Posted by mattyb 

Elizabeth has her original clothes, how far into the game am I?

Elizabeth changes her clothes at about the half-way mark.

[mattyb]

OK, she's in her new clothes and the story has 'gotten weird'.

I needed food and found 2 potatoes in a toilet. Elizabeth didn't say anything when I ate them.

I lost her for a bit after using the Sky-Lines. Then suddenly she's walking beside me again.

I'm playing on Normal and I think that its too easy. I rarely use anything except the hand cannon and the sniper. Usually able to put enemies down quickly. Ranked up the weapons though. I have a feeling its because I leveled up the shield first before doing health or salts.

[mattyb]

Finished the game.

I'll have a nights sleep before posting what I think about the ending, with spoiler tags of course.

[lpkmckenna]

Originally Posted by mattyb 

I needed food and found 2 potatoes in a toilet. Elizabeth didn't say anything when I ate them.

Having eaten cotton candy out of garbage bins, and apples from the pockets of dead, burning bodies, I've come to the conclusion that Booker was in debt because he needed the money to satisfy his compulsive eating disorder.

I'm also amazed at the amount of money these cloud people throw in the trash. I'm also amazed at the amount of drinking, smoking, and flirting these hyper-religious people engage in. Is Comstock's Christianity supposed to be a variant of Catholicism? There are a lot of iconic statues, after all.

I lost her for a bit after using the Sky-Lines. Then suddenly she's walking beside me again.

It took me a while to realize she always follows you on the Skylines, unless she specifically tells you otherwise.

But yeah, I think they teleport her around a bit when you're not looking at her. I actually saw her zip around at lightning-speed once or twice like the Flash. And then there's this hilarious bug: Bioshock Infinite - Elizabeth matrix jump - YouTube

I'm playing on Normal and I think that its too easy. I rarely use anything except the hand cannon and the sniper. Usually able to put enemies down quickly. Ranked up the weapons though. I have a feeling its because I leveled up the shield first before doing health or salts.

I find it interesting they have both a regenerating shield and health pickups in the same game, a kind of mix of old and new school game mechanics. If you're in a furious fire-fight and you're very low on health it's actually much safer to just monitor your shield, hide behind cover while it recharges, and wait for Elizabeth to "find" you a health pack, than to go out and get a health pack.

Speaking of Elizabeth "finding" stuff, it's really just a Big Fat Lie. When she was pointing out "hey, there's a lock pick," it gave me the feeling that she really was finding stuff in the environment that I could have found. But no, the only thing she actually finds in the environment are lock picks. When she "finds" ammo, health, or salt, her programming is really just reacting to the state your character is in. If you need that stuff, she will really just conjure it out of nowhere after a random amount of time.

Which raises the question: "why didn't the developers just say she was pulling that stuff from a tear?" I would have suited the story much better, and it was very immersion-breaking for me when she and I would be pinned down and trapped with no items in sight, and she would conveniently "find" something I really needed at that very moment. I'm not complaining that she was helping me - that was awesome - just the phoney "finding stuff" was quickly replaced in my mind with "waiting for her random number generator to decide to give me what I need at this moment."

And every time she said "Hey, there's a lock pick!" I just thought "Pick it up yourself! You're the one who's gonna use it!" Especially since the game has you watch the coin-throw animation a whole lot, but you never see Booker give Elizabeth those lock picks. And occasionally, I couldn't find the damn pick she says she found, and occasionally there was a bug in the game where I could see the damn pick, but couldn't pick it up! (This always seems related to the optional cypher missions, but once the cypher was solved, I could then pick up the lock pick. Strange bug.)

Another complaint about immersion-breaking behaviours was Elizabeth "interacting" with the environment during her "idle moments" animations. She would occasionally bend over and examine something, but never at any of the actually interesting stuff in the room. Early in the game, I would hear her mutter "hmmm" and look at something, and I would walk over (thinking the devs wanted me to look too), and she'd be staring at an empty tabletop or something. Every time these moments happened, I was reminded that another random number generator had gone off in Elizabeth's head, and the Elizabeth-environment interactions were a Big Fat Lie.

Lastly, while it's great that Elizabeth doesn't need your protection in battle, eliminating the escort mission stigma, it becomes plain that her "hiding in cover" is another Big Fat Lie. She's basically invisible to the enemy and invulnerable to harm from explosions, fire, rampaging Handymen, and so on. I would have been great if they had her react to injury, conjure a health pack, and heal herself. It's hard to feel like I'm protecting her when she walks like a ghost through incoming Flak Cannon fire or hides from machine gun bullets behind a hand-railing.

So yeah, I've done a bunch of complaining, but don't get me wrong: I think the devs did a fantastic job with Elizabeth. There were just a few immersion-breaking quirks that bugged me, like seeing a slight paint scrape on the side of an otherwise gorgeous Luxury car.

[lpkmckenna]

Speaking of Big Fat Lies, is anyone bothered by the the pre-release videos and trailers versus the actual shipping product? It seems like the elephant in the room no one is talking about because The Story has distracted everyone's attention.

Take note: I'm not complaining that BioShock Infinite doesn't look amazing, because it does. But the devs clearly had to scale-back a lot once they realized their eyes were way bigger than their stomachs.

Watch this video with Ken Levine talking about Skylines: BioShock Infinite: Sky-Lines Trailer - YouTube

Lots of differences. The city is much more detailed, there are many more enemies, there are more Skylines, there is cargo moving on the Skylines while you are using them, and there is much more banter between Elizabeth and Booker during the fighting.

Watch this video from the 2011 E3 demo: BioShock Infinite: 15 Minutes of Gameplay Footage [HD] - YouTube

Elizabeth is way, way more engaged with the environment. The environment is much more dynamic, with birdcages, toys, and other stuff reacting to the wind. The townsfolk are a lot more realistic. There is random, movable clutter in the environment that reacts to the Bucking Bronco vigor and weapon fire. (It's also interesting how much the story changed in two years: Abe Lincoln isn't much admired in the shipping game, and here they are going to Comstock House in the hope that he will help Elizabeth.)

Watch this video, one of the earliest when Saltonstall was still a character: BioShock Infinite Gameplay Video HD - YouTube

Elizabeth's powers were very different here, and that crowd of ordinary townsfolk seem to be a serious challenge. I also miss the fact that you can't hit people with a wrench on the Skylines in the game. (Though I do like how they managed to incorporate the wrench into the game at one point. Nice touch.)

None of these are serious complaints by me. But this TV commercial that is playing non-stop kinda kills me: BioShock Infinite TV Commercial 1080p HD TV official Trailer - YouTube

Unlike the first "Beast of America" trailer online, which used the actual gameplay and graphics of the game (seen here: Bioshock Infinite Official Trailer [HD] - YouTube ), this tv commercial doesn't look anything like the game. At all. All the character models and scenery are way more detailed. You can see why the commercial is structured the way it is, since it shows important elements of the game (you are trying to save a girl, but she also helps you) and highlights a major threat in the game (the Handyman). If you've got 30 secs to explain what a game is all about, you couldn't do worse than this commercial. It just doesn't look like the game.

I guess my complaint is, given that Irrational couldn't deliver on all the details from the pre-release videos, it's a shame to release a tv commercial that suggests they really did. Particularly since actual gameplay footage would have been impressive enough.

They should have just gone for a shorter version of this on tv: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SMIAqZSfz6A

[mattyb]

No need for me to write a detailed post about my thoughts, lpkmckenna has it all covered.

Ending questions follow :

 

So DeWitt and Comstock and one and the same. Elizabeth is DeWitt's daughter. So why does he have to give her to himself once he's got the beard/got baptized? And why did he go from an arsehole with a daughter to a prophet with a daughter that was his when he was an arsehole?

Its basically bollocks. The story writers were high when they came up with that shite, it makes no sense at all.

I'll be selling it. Besides the weirdness of the story, it wasn't actually that good a game. Same as FC3, or Skyrim or other FPSes IMHO.

[Leonard]

It'll probably take me twice as long to get through this game. I'm the type to search every nook and cranny.

[lpkmckenna]

Originally Posted by mattyb 

Ending questions follow :

 

So DeWitt and Comstock and one and the same. Elizabeth is DeWitt's daughter. So why does he have to give her to himself once he's got the beard/got baptized? And why did he go from an arsehole with a daughter to a prophet with a daughter that was his when he was an arsehole?

Answer:

 

Comstock is sterile, cancerous, and prematurely aged because of his exposure to the timeline tears that Rosalind Letuce opened for him, which he used to steal future technologies from other timelines to create Columbia, and to learn knowledge of the future, which is the actual source of his "prophetic" powers.

Comstock has future knowledge that his "seed" will destroy the United States, but he can't make that happen because he is now sterile from exposure to the tears. So he goes to another timeline to take away a child from another version of himself that didn't become Comstock and become sterile.

I really like the story.

[mattyb]

You had to search for that information surely. There was no such explanation in the game.

[lpkmckenna]

Originally Posted by mattyb 

You had to search for that information surely. There was no such explanation in the game.

No, it's all in the game. Maybe you missed some important Voxophones with some key info. Virtually all info on the Letuce's is on Voxophones, for instance.

[mattyb]

Dunno how many I picked up, but I didn't listen to any of them. Oh well. Cheers for the explanation though.

[lpkmckenna]

An interesting video that discusses some of the obvious problems with BioShock Infinite: Everything Bioshock Infinite Gets Wrong - YouTube (Warning - Spoilers)

One thing that struck me about "Binfinite" (my new favorite nickname) was how lifeless most of the townsfolk are. They all look the same, none of them have anything interesting to say, and all the great animation and characterization is restricted to major characters.

You know what game doesn't do that? Rage. The towns in Rage are much smaller, yes, but the minor characters who live there are much more realistic. Yes, there are "body doubles" for many of the minor people milling around (a strange mistake, since they could have just restricted doubles to guards and uniformed workmen), but almost everyone gets a couple lines of interesting dialog and are nicely designed and animated. (Even if almost every woman in Rage dresses in rather questionable attire.)

Another element the blogger above mentions is how Vigors aren't well-integrated into the game world. Firemen and Scarecrows are the only people who use them against you, despite them being available all over the city. Are we supposed to imagine that Vigors are a completely brand-new product on the market? And who in a city of piously-devoted cultists are expected to buy Murder of Crows? Who's the target market? I can understand Shock Jockey as a consumer product, but Devil's Kiss and Murder of Crows would be better understood as tools for police to fight the Vox, so why sell it on the street corner?

[Leonard]

Well, it looks like I'm over half way through the game. Elizabeth made her clothing change yesterday during play.

It's an interesting story so far, if I've figured it out. I'm not so sure I completely figured it out yet, though, with the dimension jumping.

I haven't read all the emails above, I'm trying to keep away from the spoilers. But I did read a few of lpkmckenna's and have to agree, I'm a little disappointed, I expected more. It is a good game, probably just as good as Bioshock 1.

But yeah, the vigors don't seem to fit in as well as they did in Bioshock 1 & 2. Maybe they didn't have time to warp the citizens yet, like they did in Bioshock 1 & 2.

[pwfletcher]

Lol ... thanks for the play by play. I was thinking of getting it even though I don't do much gaming ...

[lpkmckenna]

Saw this at The Penny Arcade Report. The stupidest critique of BioShock Infinite ever written: BioShock Infinite: an intelligent, violent videogame? - Read - ABC Arts | Australian contemporary art and culture reviews, news & videos

[Leonard]

Egads, what a stupid critique. Obviously this guy's not a gamer and doesn't realize that games, similar to movies, tend to use history and modify it for their use. Nothing says this game is a true telling of history and he even says that, and then hypocritically says the opposite.

I have to admit, though, that I don't know some of the historical references as I'm not from the US.

[Leonard]

WOW! What a story.

 

I had figured out that DeWitt was Elizabeth's father, around the time the fight started to get to the ferry to Comstock House (Before you get to the map with Comstock House and Emporia and the cemetary). What I couldn't figure out was why she was missing her finger and could open tears. But at the time, I thought DeWitt had had an affair with Lady Comstock. I couldn't figure out how a tear would produce a baby.

But now it all makes sense, sort of. Especially after reading lpkmckenna's post above.

I got a kick how they passed through Rapture in their escape.

I wonder what the 1999 version is like?

I think I'm going to take a break for week and do some Assassin's Creed III DLC, and then I'll go back to Bioshock and finish off a couple more achievements. I seemed to have missed a few telescopes (2-4) and voxophones (2-3).

[lpkmckenna]

Originally Posted by Leonard 

 

But at the time, I thought DeWitt had had an affair with Lady Comstock.

I made the exact same assumption while playing the game.

[Stogieman]

I started this game on Normal a few days ago. Taking my sweet time by exploring every nook and cranny. I'm at the part where I need to supply weapons to the Vox. How far along am I?

[lpkmckenna]

Originally Posted by Stogieman 

I started this game on Normal a few days ago. Taking my sweet time by exploring every nook and cranny. I'm at the part where I need to supply weapons to the Vox. How far along am I?

Um, about a third I think.

[Leonard]

Originally Posted by lpkmckenna 

Um, about a third I think.

Yeah, I think I'd agree with that. You're about a third of the way there. This is also where it starts to get interesting with the tears.

[lpkmckenna]

I'm playing 1999 Mode right now. I'm not very far yet, but I immediately noticed that turrets are a lot harder to kill but can easily kill you. I generally need to Possess every one of them and let the hordes of police destroy them for me. The police are more resilient and can live long enough to flank and/or get close to me. Every time I die, it's because I've got three policemen right on top of me.

[Leonard]

Yeah, from what I heard of 1999 mode, you take 200% more damage when hit, and you hurt enemies 50% less (you give out 50% less damage). So it sounds fairly hard.

Right now, I'm debating what to do next in Bioshock. I've got about 4-5 telescopes/kinectiscopes to find and 2-3 voxophones.
It would have been nice for them to tell you in what chapters/levels these were. Instead you seem to have to guess. I may end up playing the last 2/3 of the game again.

[lpkmckenna]

I didn't find every voxophone and every telescope, and I scoured that game for them.

[Stogieman]

Voxophone guide:
Eavesdropper Achievement in BioShock Infinite

Kineteloscopes guide:
Sightseer Achievement in BioShock Infinite

[lpkmckenna]

This is right on the money: Fat Booker (BioShock Infinite Parody) | HAPSTANCE - YouTube

[Leonard]

I found out the Voxophones are easy to find out which ones you missed. Find a list on the Internet and compare it to the in-game list (I reloaded the last level to see my in-game list). Note that a couple may be out of order due to some of the free-roaming areas. I had 2 Voxophones left to find and found them rather quickly.

On the subject of telescopes and kinetiscopes, I had 4 left to find after my playthrough. Now I'm down to still missing 2. They're a little harder as there is no in-game list of the ones you have found.

[Leonard]

Found my last 2 telescopes/kinetiscopes. Turned out both were on the same map, the Good Times Club. Missed one on my travels into the club, and missed one after going through the tear and travelling out of the club. I guess I assumed I got that one on the way in, but it's different on the way out.

At this point, I have to decide if I'm going to go for the 1999 mode run-through.

Anyone know if you go through on 1999 mode, does that count to completing it on HARD difficulty? I still need the achievement for completing it on HARD difficulty. I did my first run through on NORMAL.

[Stogieman]

Yes, completing it in 1999 mode also unlocks the Hard difficulty achievement.

[lpkmckenna]

I finished 1999 Mode, and I earned the Scavenger Hunt achievement while doing so (which means I never bought anything from Dollar Bill and relied purely on found items and Elizabeth). I was really tight on ammo for the whole game, often getting killed because I simply had no more bullets or salts left.

But some parts were very easy, once you figured out the right Gear combinations. In the Skyline environments, using Winter Shield (Jumping from a Sky-Line grants brief invulnerability) and Burning Halo with the drop attack followed by some Skyhook strikes means you can kill almost everyone without firing a shot, even the Handymen. Using the Charge vigor with Brittle-Skinned and Executioner gear against the Siren can finish her off in literally seconds, again without firing a shot.

The hardest part of the game was in Finkton, as I was both tight on ammo and had limited gear, so the Handymen were just kicking my ass. The armored bastards with the flak cannons were a pain too.

And I'll just say this: I hate the revival mechanism and checkpoint locations in this game. BioShock was a lot more fun with the Vita-Chambers turned off, but you can't do that in this game, so you can find yourself kicked back really far once you get your ass kicked enough that the game forces you back to a checkpoint because you're broke.

Also, never let go of the sniper rifle in this game, as there are many long-distance encounters that are really easy with the sniper rifle and really hard without. And it's almost always safer to run away, turn around, and snipe from a distance.

Found all the voxophones, but somehow still missed a telescope or kinetiscopes somewhere. Yeah, I saw the two at the Good Times Club this time too.

There are three DLCs coming for this game. I made a (not very popular) thread at Reddit on my theories on what to expect (warning Spoilers): http://www.reddit.com/r/Bioshock/com...ries_spoilers/

[Leonard]

You have some creative DLC ideas. I definitely would like to play through some of those.

[Leonard]

Well, I started my 1999 mode play-thru. I'm not sure if I'll complete it.

[Leonard]

Finally completed my 1999 mode walkthough. Got all the achievements now. 1999 mode wasn't as hard as I thought it would be. I was dreading the final battle, but the final battle was easy once you put 2 return to sender traps on the core as recommended somewhere on the net. I did have trouble with the Handyman Battles and the Lady Comstock Battle in the cemetary. The 1999 speed run on Xbox Achievement's site helped with the Lady Comstock battle. Just laid a pile of Devil's Kiss traps in a certain spot and she hits them and is virtually dead instantly. Just takes a few gun shots and she dies.

So where is the DLC for this game? It's been 2-3 months, hasn't it, since the release?

I had to start Mass Effect 3 Omega DLC to fill in the time.

[lpkmckenna]

Got all the achievements? Including Scrouncher? I found that made 1999 mode a lot harder.

Yeah, I'm dying for some DLC. They didn't start DLC production until after the game was released, so we're waiting longer than usual.

You know what I'd like to see, other than a new story? Gameplay that didn't limit you to two weapons. I would love to see how this game pays without that limitation.

[Leonard]

Originally Posted by lpkmckenna 

Got all the achievements? Including Scrouncher? I found that made 1999 mode a lot harder.

Yes, even scrounger. I'm 1000 out of 1000. There's usually enough weaponry lying around and most of the time Elizabeth will replenish you with ammo. There was a couple of fights, though, where she stopped replenishing me. The other thing is, I kept the RPG as a second weapon 98% of the time. Devoted most infusions to shield until the shield was full, since it automatically replenishes itself.

Originally Posted by lpkmckenna 

Yeah, I'm dying for some DLC. They didn't start DLC production until after the game was released, so we're waiting longer than usual.

Oh, okay, that explains the wait for DLC.

Originally Posted by lpkmckenna 

You know what I'd like to see, other than a new story? Gameplay that didn't limit you to two weapons. I would love to see how this game pays without that limitation.

That would be interesting.