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You are here: MacNN Forums > Community > MacNN Lounge > So my company with 60,000+ employee is upgrading its Microsoft software.....

So my company with 60,000+ employee is upgrading its Microsoft software.....
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villalobos
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Feb 22, 2007, 10:20 AM
 
to Office 2003 and IE 6.02!!! HAHAHA

I was wondering if they get a discount or something like that when they deploy 4 year old software? Microsoft can't be happy with that.
     
SirCastor
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Feb 22, 2007, 10:26 AM
 
That's amusing. I wonder where they're getting Office 2003. I imagine Microsoft will only grudgingly acknowledge it's existence.
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DuckRacer1
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Feb 22, 2007, 10:47 AM
 
Originally Posted by villalobos View Post
to Office 2003 and IE 6.02!!! HAHAHA

I was wondering if they get a discount or something like that when they deploy 4 year old software? Microsoft can't be happy with that.


So what were you all using before?
     
centerchannel68
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Feb 22, 2007, 10:51 AM
 
Chisels.
     
Kevin
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Feb 22, 2007, 11:08 AM
 
Originally Posted by DuckRacer1 View Post


So what were you all using before?
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villalobos  (op)
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Feb 22, 2007, 11:20 AM
 
Originally Posted by DuckRacer1 View Post


So what were you all using before?


and

     
Ham Sandwich
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Feb 22, 2007, 01:09 PM
 
Well, we STILL haven't migrated to Windows XP and just recently upgraded to Office 2003.

We are planning of migrating this year to XP and staying on Office 2003. And, we are on an EA so it's not a money issue - it's an end user issue.
     
residentEvil
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Feb 22, 2007, 01:10 PM
 
a) the software is still available and b) you buy the license for the current OS or Office application you are entitled to use the previous(s) versions if you wish*.

for example; you buy a Vista license but install XP or you buy Office 2003 and install Office 2000. those are both valid installs by the microsoft license agreement

*only know this for volume license purchasing, don't know if it is true for single consumer licenses.
     
OreoCookie
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Feb 22, 2007, 01:18 PM
 
My parents were using Win2k and Office 2k until they switched last year. (Their system got infested with viruses again and again and again.) There was no reason for them to switch, I had made very elaborate document templates that included everything they needed for their work and that's that. If it weren't for the virus infestations, they'd have stayed with Win2k, I guess
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goMac
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Feb 22, 2007, 04:19 PM
 
Actually, the way Microsoft licenses old software, you buy the current version, and then you have the rights to all older versions of the software. So most likely your employer bought the newest version of Office for full price, and then deployed the older version.
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imitchellg5
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Feb 22, 2007, 06:46 PM
 
I'm still using Tiger. Oh wait.... Seriously though, my school upgraded XP only last year.
     
Kevin
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Feb 22, 2007, 07:03 PM
 
Originally Posted by goMac View Post
Actually, the way Microsoft licenses old software, you buy the current version, and then you have the rights to all older versions of the software. So most likely your employer bought the newest version of Office for full price, and then deployed the older version.
That is lame .

So you couldn't say save money by buying older software.

And MS can say "We have this many users that have bought"
     
Railroader
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Feb 22, 2007, 07:13 PM
 
My university is delaying Vista deployment to get all of the kinks worked out.

Office of Information Technology
     
residentEvil
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Feb 22, 2007, 07:55 PM
 
Originally Posted by goMac View Post
Actually, the way Microsoft licenses old software, you buy the current version, and then you have the rights to all older versions of the software. So most likely your employer bought the newest version of Office for full price, and then deployed the older version.
yeah, i said that already. nice job
     
Scotttheking
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Feb 22, 2007, 07:58 PM
 
Why is that weird? Microsoft will support their software for as long as you have a contract with them for. It takes a long time to validate every app a company runs, especially large companies with many processes.

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mduell
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Feb 22, 2007, 09:53 PM
 
We just moved to XP, but we're still using Office 2k.
     
macgeek2005
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Feb 22, 2007, 10:05 PM
 
Originally Posted by villalobos View Post


and

LOL
     
mac128k-1984
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Feb 22, 2007, 10:12 PM
 
My company is just upgrading to office 2003 and has not rolled out XP yet. I can totally understand this move and its not microsoft thing. Rolling out software to such a large installtion base requires a lot of work, support and expense. Even if they got the software as part of their contract with MS it still an expensive endeavor.

First does the machines even have the minimum requirements to run the application.
Does it break any other applications (home grown or 3rd party)?
Does it require any changes to security.

For instance office 2003 changed how it handled external queries so pivot tables that worked in the prior version of excel no longer work (there's work arounds but you get my point).
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besson3c
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Feb 22, 2007, 10:19 PM
 
Originally Posted by mac128k-1984 View Post
My company is just upgrading to office 2003 and has not rolled out XP yet. I can totally understand this move and its not microsoft thing. Rolling out software to such a large installtion base requires a lot of work, support and expense. Even if they got the software as part of their contract with MS it still an expensive endeavor.

First does the machines even have the minimum requirements to run the application.
Does it break any other applications (home grown or 3rd party)?
Does it require any changes to security.

For instance office 2003 changed how it handled external queries so pivot tables that worked in the prior version of excel no longer work (there's work arounds but you get my point).

Exactly? Are they any kick ass features in Office 2003 the company could not have lived without? Apparently not... Are there any advantages in running XP in a heavy firewalled environment? Maybe, maybe not.

If not, if it ain't broke don't fix it. Company bosses are not as fixated on new shiny things like we are. This, and Apple's weak enterprise showings are a big part why Windows rules the office place.
     
mac128k-1984
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Feb 22, 2007, 10:34 PM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
If not, if it ain't broke don't fix it. Company bosses are not as fixated on new shiny things like we are
No argument here, I work in IT and I know the cost and work effort, companies only roll out a new version only because they have too. The most common reason is loss of support and I think win2k and office 2000 is at that point where MS is going stop supporting those apps.
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- - e r i k - -
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Feb 23, 2007, 02:20 AM
 
This is totally understandable. For an operation that big, proven software is the way to go. If it's not been tested for years and years you don't want it running anything mission critical. Upgrading to say Vista and Office 2007 now would be lunacy.

Take NASA for example. (Critical) Computer equipment sent into space needs a decade of testing (if I remember correctly).

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Feb 23, 2007, 04:56 AM
 
Originally Posted by mac128k-1984 View Post
No argument here, I work in IT and I know the cost and work effort, companies only roll out a new version only because they have too. The most common reason is loss of support and I think win2k and office 2000 is at that point where MS is going stop supporting those apps.
As shown in the "hack" for Windows 2000 and the new daylight savings time change. XP has a patch that's not a big deal to deploy whereas with 2000, because it's unsupported now, you have to run a registry hack and then a VB script. Try testing and deploying that in a large enterprise along with the crap you have to go through with Exchange/Outlook to get everyone's scheduling updated. It's actually turning into a bigger mess than anything we had to go through for Y2K.

We are getting pushed to Office 2007 because of its better integration with Sharepoint. Actually, we aren't completing our Sharepoint rollout until we go to Office 2007 and XP.
     
PB2K
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Feb 23, 2007, 05:00 AM
 
i work at a college, students show up with massive laptops with windows 95..i am not amazed companies do worse
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SirCastor
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Feb 23, 2007, 06:22 AM
 
Originally Posted by - - e r i k - - View Post
This is totally understandable. For an operation that big, proven software is the way to go. If it's not been tested for years and years you don't want it running anything mission critical. Upgrading to say Vista and Office 2007 now would be lunacy.
I work in an office of 3 people, and my Boss refuses to upgrade to Vista until at least SP1 is out, but even then I doubt that he would do it.

Can you imagine upgrading to Office 2007 in a large group? The interface is completely changed. I would hate to be the IT guy dealing with that:
"How do I open Files?"
"I don't know what these buttons do?"
"My computer's broken, there aren't any words on the screen."
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scaught
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Feb 23, 2007, 11:15 AM
 
Like others have said, with a 60k employee userbase, this is totally completely understandable. The company our company does work for is just upgrading it's end user workstations to XP now. There are so many customized applications that are absolutely business critical that HAVE to be torture tested. There's risk/benefit analysis to be done - and the general consensus is if it ain't broke, don't fix it.
     
olePigeon
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Feb 23, 2007, 01:27 PM
 
Actually, the funnier part is that his company is paying $12 a computer just for the "privilege" of running Windows. On top of that, he's paying another $3 a computer just for the "privilege" of running Microsoft Office.

So be a good boy, and pay Microsoft a crap load of money for something you've already bought.
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shifuimam
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Feb 23, 2007, 04:37 PM
 
My company just upgraded in July 2005 to Office 2003, Lotus Notes 6.5, and Service Pack 2 on Windows XP/Pro (we ran SP1 before).

It takes a long time to plan an upgrade that major. Our upgrade also included new hardware, since our 3-year IBM contract was up. We now have a 3-year contract with Dell, and with the new machines came software upgrades.

Upgrading is no small feat for a large company. They're already starting the plans for the next upgrade, and that's more than two and a half years from now. If your company has just now announced the upgrade to Office 2003, my guess is that they've been in the process of planning the deployment of this upgrade for more than twelve months...which is before Office 2007 was released. Not only that, but Office 2007 brings up some major compatibility and usability issues because of the new interface and default document file types.

Upgrading an OS is an even bigger deal. You have to ensure that every custom application your company may use is compatible with an entirely new operating system (e.g. 2000 to XP or XP to Vista) or even a major patch/upgrade like SP2.

So yeah...I agree with what others said.
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shifuimam
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Feb 23, 2007, 04:44 PM
 
Originally Posted by olePigeon View Post
Actually, the funnier part is that his company is paying $12 a computer just for the "privilege" of running Windows. On top of that, he's paying another $3 a computer just for the "privilege" of running Microsoft Office.

So be a good boy, and pay Microsoft a crap load of money for something you've already bought.
Ah, but do those rates include more than just the software? E.G. support contracts, representatives from Microsoft when necessary, server-managed patches...

Volume licensing doesn't work like normal licensing for any major application. Adobe acts much the same way as Microsoft with Acrobat, Photoshop, Dreamweaver, and other big-name apps. An open license for an unlimited number of comptuers would be an astronomical expense for a large organization.
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olePigeon
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Feb 23, 2007, 07:35 PM
 
Originally Posted by shifuimam View Post
Ah, but do those rates include more than just the software? E.G. support contracts, representatives from Microsoft when necessary, server-managed patches...
That's not licensing for any software. It is an annual fee just to access a Microsoft based network.

Originally Posted by shifuimam View Post
Volume licensing doesn't work like normal licensing for any major application. Adobe acts much the same way as Microsoft with Acrobat, Photoshop, Dreamweaver, and other big-name apps. An open license for an unlimited number of comptuers would be an astronomical expense for a large organization.
Different kind of licensing. The Client Access Licenses are not licenses for copies of the software, they're strictly a license to access a Microsoft server and the privilege to use the software. You don't even have to have a single Microsoft product installed on a machine for a CAL to applicable. As long as the device (and I say "device" because it can be anything from a 486, to a Mac LC, to a Mac Pro, an HP running Linux, even a Blackberry if you use the Exchange plugin) is charged roughly $13 a year just because you're using a Microsoft Server.

CALs are not software licenses. It is literally a Microsoft tax for the privilege of accessing a Microsoft based network. On top of the CALs you still have to buy the software licenses for Office, Windows, SQL Server, etc. CALs are independent from Software Assurance. Software Assurance is an additional annual program if you want continual upgrades.
( Last edited by olePigeon; Feb 23, 2007 at 07:44 PM. )
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Feb 24, 2007, 03:47 PM
 
Speaking of CALs - our EA is up for renewal in a couple of months and we won't be renewing. We don't see our business growing at all so there won't be any more CAL purchases for years. And, since they just dumped the steaming piles that are Vista and Office 2007 into our laps before the EA runs out, we can upgrade the machines we had under the EA whenever we want to those versions.

The priviledge to run MS products under a three year EA when they don't have any significant upgrades coming out in the next three years just made no sense. We are actually taking this three year MS hiatus and have been instructed to focus on migrating to Linux. This isn't some small operation, either, as we have about 10,000 world-wide seats so it is a BIG deal for MS to loose our yearly tax payments. The MS sales team didn't even try to hard sell us when they came out to get us to renew - they actually worked harder on trying to get their Vista laptops to hook to the projector!

The only problem with ridding our place of MS goods is that the lack of quality in their products have given me employment for more than a decade. I can seriously see me having to find another MS shop to take my reboot skills to if my current employer switched to Linux or Apple.
     
houstonmacbro
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Feb 24, 2007, 06:53 PM
 
Originally Posted by Railroader View Post
My university is delaying Vista deployment to get all of the kinks worked out.

Office of Information Technology
Yeah, mine too ... they say right now it will not be installed until at least 2008. Fine for me.
     
   
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