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The Expanse Bad Science Roundup (Page 4)
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reader50
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Aug 21, 2022, 03:59 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
Was this due to the network switch? They swear in S3, which was still SyFy.
Avasarala’s “whatever I goddam like” was in S2. Maybe they only toned her down during S1.
     
subego  (op)
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Aug 21, 2022, 04:02 PM
 
I do vaguely remember less swearing in the beginning, but also recall partial nudity right in the first episode.
     
Spheric Harlot
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Aug 21, 2022, 06:05 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
Was this due to the network switch? They swear in S3, which was still SyFy.
I'm talking about Season 4.
     
subego  (op)
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Aug 21, 2022, 06:10 PM
 
Ah, gotcha!

She’s already swearing a lot though. I was amused by the conversation she had with Holden about being in the Navy and he tells her “you already swear like a sailor”.
     
Spheric Harlot
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Aug 21, 2022, 07:39 PM
 
I found the difference startling, and refreshing.
     
subego  (op)
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Aug 21, 2022, 08:08 PM
 
That’s good then, because she’s very good at swearing.

As is Drummer.
     
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Aug 21, 2022, 08:25 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
That’s good then, because she’s very good at swearing.

As is Drummer.
I’m so glad her character is fleshed out more, and they give some exposition on the culture of the belt while they are at it. They don’t make a big deal about things, they just show them. (I’m sorry if I am being vague, but I want to avoid spoilers — other than that it is a damn good serious and you should keep watching.)

The character arcs for e. g. Avaserala are great overall, she is introduced as a hawk and then becomes more reasonable. In some scenes you can feel the discomfort of characters having to make what are difficult choices for them, I really felt like squirming in my seat at times.
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subego  (op)
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Aug 21, 2022, 08:51 PM
 
Oh, I remember Avaserala torturing the Belter right at the beginning.

Also, I’m definitely in for the long haul.

I very much appreciate most of the moral dilemmas they concoct are of high quality. Likewise with the discussion afterwards. Another Amos gem…

“You point a gun at my Captain, you’ve put a bullet in your own head.”



He gets the best fucking lines.


P.S. Spoke to my dad and he was indeed objecting to closed timelike curves in a Lorentzian manifold. He’s fine with and.
     
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Aug 21, 2022, 09:37 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
Oh, I remember Avaserala torturing the Belter right at the beginning.
The interesting thing for me is that her character development is not framed as growing softer, but looks more like a refinement. There are a few situations where her character is tested and she stands by her principles, i. e. she is still fully capable of making tough calls. It is just tht she gets more aware of the suffering and the situations of others and changes because of that.
Originally Posted by subego View Post
I very much appreciate most of the moral dilemmas they concoct are of high quality. Likewise with the discussion afterwards. Another Amos gem…
Indeed. And usually none of the sides have clean hands.
The social commentary is also super interesting, e. g. the way UBI works on earth where there is not enough work for people — and is despised on Mars — is quite interesting. The later seasons also have quite a bit on Belter culture.
Originally Posted by subego View Post
“You point a gun at my Captain, you’ve put a bullet in your own head.”
Amos is super interesting: he clearly has the traits of a psychopath, but he is aware enough to surround himself with people who he thinks have a strong moral compass. I don't think I have seen a character quite like him anywhere else.
Originally Posted by subego View Post
P.S. Spoke to my dad and he was indeed objecting to closed timelike curves in a Lorentzian manifold. He’s fine with and.
Sounds like your dad has a physics background.
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subego  (op)
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Aug 21, 2022, 11:37 PM
 
Completely agree with you on Avaserala. I don’t think her character in later seasons would object to her character from earlier ones.

Likewise agree with the social commentary. One of my curiosities going in was if it purports to be hard sci-fi it has to address how unhealthy it is to live in low-gravity. I was positively stunned they explained how this was mitigated (or not), laid out the sociopolitical implications, and did it all in a couple lines without even the faintest whiff of exposition. It ranks as one of my favorite moments in all of science fiction.


Officially, my dad’s background is math, but he’s more interested in theoretical physics. None of the math involved is a problem, so pursuing it unofficially comes easier to him than it would most.

In contrast, I pretty much tap-out past algebra.
     
reader50
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Aug 22, 2022, 01:37 AM
 
Originally Posted by OreoCookie View Post
Amos is super interesting: he clearly has the traits of a psychopath, but he is aware enough to surround himself with people who he thinks have a strong moral compass. I don't think I have seen a character quite like him anywhere else.
This is aimed at subego, as you're far enough in by now. If you haven't figured Amos out yet, the brain procedure done on Cortázar was done to Amos when he was 5. Or something very similar. He doesn't feel fear, and more importantly, cannot feel the difference between right and wrong.

Perfect mix for a psychopath, but he doesn't want to be one. So he picks an avatar of Good, and uses that person as a moral compass. When we first meet him, the avatar is Naomi. He's not her boyfriend, and Naomi doesn't understand his reason at the time.

Later he warms up to Holden (a crusader) and Alex (a pretty good guy, except with regards to his family). Amos uses Prax for awhile, and he's absolutely fascinated with Anna - the first complex Good person he's run into. By S3, Amos has gotten comfortable surrounded by multiple good people. And he's willing to vote with different ones, knowing his choice will be decent each way.

It took me until sometime in season 3 before I figured Amos out, though most of the clues were available by late in season 2. Like Oreo, I can't remember meeting a character like him before.
( Last edited by reader50; Aug 22, 2022 at 02:13 AM. Reason: mixed-up pronouns)
     
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Aug 22, 2022, 02:10 AM
 
Originally Posted by reader50 View Post
This is aimed at subego, as you're far enough in by now. If you haven't figured Amos out yet, the brain procedure done on Cortázar was done to Amos when he was 5. Or something very similar. He doesn't feel fear, and more importantly, cannot feel the difference between right and wrong.
I forgot about this. Damn, this series is so dense. I have almost watched it back-to-back three times. But now that you say it, I think I even remember the scene.
Originally Posted by reader50 View Post
Perfect mix for a psychopath, but he doesn't want to be one. So he picks an avatar of Good, and uses that person as a moral compass. When we first meet him, the avatar is Naomi. He's not her girlfriend, and Naomi doesn't understand his reason at the time.
Yeah, their relationship is really weird, because it looks like the series sets up an unrequited love-type of story arch, but then there is nothing. He's really a deeply unusual character.
Originally Posted by reader50 View Post
It took me until sometime in season 3 before I figured Amos out, though most of the clues were available by late in season 2. Like Oreo, I can't remember meeting a character like him before.
Right!
But since his character breaks the mold, you can't really understand him until you hear more of their backstory.

Another character whom I love is Cotyar, Arvaserala's “assistant”/spy/body guard. So much to love about the series.

PS One more great line from Season 1, Episode 4 (CQB): “I didn't think we could lose.” This episode is probably my favorite of all. Which means it is one of my favorite SciFi TV series episodes, up there with DS9's “In the Pale Moonlight” and Babylon 5's “Into the Fire”.
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Aug 22, 2022, 07:42 AM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
Was this due to the network switch? They swear in S3, which was still SyFy.
From memory, I think Season 2 was when her pottymouth came out to the fore.

PS One of the few changes in the series (minimal spoiler): I very much preferred the first actor who played her husband. He seemed like a perfect balance to her character. Perhaps the second actor just got unlucky in that the character had already been set in stone in my mind and he just didn’t fit.
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subego  (op)
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Aug 22, 2022, 10:18 AM
 
Originally Posted by reader50 View Post
This is aimed at subego, as you're far enough in by now. If you haven't figured Amos out yet, the brain procedure done on Cortázar was done to Amos when he was 5. Or something very similar. He doesn't feel fear, and more importantly, cannot feel the difference between right and wrong.
I thought it was something like this. At the least I’ve figured out he had been experimented on, and while that experimentation didn’t quite fully remove his moral compass, it grossly simplified it, and made him pliable to authority.
     
subego  (op)
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Aug 22, 2022, 12:31 PM
 
Originally Posted by reader50 View Post
Alex
No, wait! Donkey balls!
     
subego  (op)
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Aug 22, 2022, 02:19 PM
 
I really hate how searching for even the most innocuous things about this show consistently nets me mega-spoilers.
     
reader50
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Aug 22, 2022, 02:53 PM
 
Ask us. It's safer than searching. Though do mention when you start S5.

I was busy when S5 came out, and still busy when S6 arrived. I'll catch up at some point. Probably during the next vacation.
     
subego  (op)
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Aug 23, 2022, 10:00 AM
 
Anyone here read Stanislaw Lem?

Was musing about His Master’s Voice, which has aliens sending us technology we have to figure out both what it is and what we’re going to do with it. Sound familiar?

I unreservedly recommend it. It’s his best work.
     
Spheric Harlot
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Aug 23, 2022, 11:52 AM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
Anyone here read Stanislaw Lem?

Was musing about His Master’s Voice, which has aliens sending us technology we have to figure out both what it is and what we’re going to do with it. Sound familiar?

I unreservedly recommend it. It’s his best work.
Absolutely. Lem is awesome.
     
subego  (op)
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Aug 23, 2022, 02:24 PM
 
Did you read HMV?

Also a huge fan of the Pirx short stories, and relatedly, Fiasco.

My dad and I were talking about Fiasco a day or two ago, and let’s just say the discussion involved me pulling out my phone and saying “hey, Siri… set an alarm for 28 minutes from now”.

Would have come in handy in that story.
     
Spheric Harlot
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Aug 23, 2022, 02:56 PM
 
I don't think I've read HMV. Fiasco, I think I did. But it's been a long, long time.
     
subego  (op)
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Aug 23, 2022, 03:25 PM
 
Likewise. I read both right at the end of the 80s.

You pretty much can’t go wrong with HMV. It’s probably the best example of a theme Lem liked playing with where the first chapter is somewhat distinct from the rest of the story, and changes everything that follows.
( Last edited by subego; Aug 23, 2022 at 04:49 PM. )
     
subego  (op)
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Aug 23, 2022, 11:35 PM
 
Amos line of the night:

“Yeah… I’m gonna need that gun back.”




Runner-up:

Anna: You can’t shoot her.
Amos: Okay, I can overload the autodoc.
( Last edited by subego; Aug 24, 2022 at 12:06 AM. )
     
subego  (op)
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Aug 24, 2022, 04:02 PM
 
I also want to give props to the debate between Drummer and Ashford about uniforms. Drummer relenting by way of singing a space shanty was brilliant.
     
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Aug 25, 2022, 12:48 AM
 
Two episodes into the fourth season.

Even though it’s gone back to a sari on the outside, I can tell it’s still goddamn fucking flightsuit Chrisjen on the inside.

I… dislike the New Terra storyline so far.
     
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Aug 25, 2022, 03:14 PM
 
It seems like a different show at first.

Maybe I should start over from the beginning.
     
subego  (op)
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Aug 25, 2022, 03:27 PM
 
Yeah… I’m willing to cut them slack because of the network discontinuity.

If I’m being honest though, as truly fantastic as this show is, they betrayed that by making 61 episodes. They just don’t have that much quality content, and as the show rolls on they're relying more and more on stale tropes and soap opera drama.

I also very much dislike the introduction of things like faster than light travel.

Before we started S4, I asked my dad if he was liking it, and he said he didn’t dislike it, but lodged the same soap opera complaint. I rallied to the show’s defense, noting that for TV, it has deeper than normal philosophical discussions. I pointed out the uniform debate between Ashford and Drummer as an example.

I even defended the alien shit. I really liked when Ghost Miller grounded it a bit with “I just tap, tap, tap on the right neurons, and you’re talking to Miller”. I especially liked Miller’s response to the challenge he may be an illusion.

“Hey, man… it’s all an illusion.”

Protomolecule got that one right.

Then, we start into S4, where all the sudden it’s Star Trek, with thousands of worlds to explore.

Ugh.
     
reader50
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Aug 25, 2022, 05:01 PM
 
As of S4, there is no FTL. They're using some kind of wormholes to shortcut. The lightspeed limit only applies within our universe, which is why the hub space seems to be outside it.

However, to build a ring gate, you still have to reach the destination through normal space first. Phoebe spent who-knows how long reaching the Solar System. Then got caught in the outer system, so the protomolecule never thawed out. Mission failure - or at least stuck for a couple billion years.

btw, the protomolecule isn't magic. Humans have nanotech, used for medical among other things. The protomolecule is molecular tech. At that level, we're all machines, so there is no longer a distinction between life and technology. Hence why the protomolecule displays properties of both. The batch from Phoebe wasn't programmed for first contact - it was sent around the time of the Great Oxidation Event, when Earth developed free oxygen. Probably how the builders realized there was a biosphere - a planet worth visiting.

So the Phoebe batch displayed some curiosity, but stuck to the mission (the work). It would have stopped eating people if anyone commanded it to in the proper language. No one did.

The lightspeed limit applies in-universe, and only within a local frame of reference. The visible universe has been expanding faster than light at least since Inflation.

Humans are exploring worlds that someone already built the roads to, and are skipping the long spaces in between. One would assume the accessible worlds were within a spherical volume when originally linked up, but a couple billion years of stellar drift will have scattered them around the galaxy.
     
subego  (op)
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Aug 25, 2022, 05:40 PM
 
I’ll say what Clarke said, only in a different order. That it has a scientific basis is irrelevant if it’s indistinguishable from magic.

What appeals to me about hard science fiction are the restrictions. Advancement of technology only serves to strip away those restrictions.

Yes, they are not traveling faster than light. They are traveling a distance faster than light. I’d be happier if they were restricted from doing this, because humanity will likely be restricted from doing this for far longer than 300 years.
( Last edited by subego; Aug 25, 2022 at 06:00 PM. )
     
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Aug 25, 2022, 09:41 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
Yeah… I’m willing to cut them slack because of the network discontinuity.
The TV series is based on a series of books and short stories, so I don't think this has anything to do with the change of network. The writers of the TV series had to make some accommodations, e. g. the character of Drummer is an amalgam of several distinct characters in the book.
Originally Posted by subego View Post
If I’m being honest though, as truly fantastic as this show is, they betrayed that by making 61 episodes. They just don’t have that much quality content, and as the show rolls on they're relying more and more on stale tropes and soap opera drama.
You are judging the show too early, you should really watch all seasons and then pass judgement. Season 4 stands out in terms of setting and everything. The remaining seasons are more in the style of Seasons 1–3.
Originally Posted by subego View Post
I also very much dislike the introduction of things like faster than light travel.
The ring gates are wormholes and become a central piece of the story, and its presence completely disrupts the fragile balance of all three parties in the solar system, Earth, Mars and the Belt. I could write more, but don't want to spoil anything for you. Let's just say it'll be a very volatile mix and our favorite characters are caught in the middle.

Season 4 will reveal some facets about the civilization that built the ring gates and the artifacts on the planet they are on. It is also my least favorite season, but more because I am typically not a space western fan (Firefly excluded, obviously).
Originally Posted by subego View Post
Before we started S4, I asked my dad if he was liking it, and he said he didn’t dislike it, but lodged the same soap opera complaint. I rallied to the show’s defense, noting that for TV, it has deeper than normal philosophical discussions. I pointed out the uniform debate between Ashford and Drummer as an example.

I even defended the alien shit. I really liked when Ghost Miller grounded it a bit with “I just tap, tap, tap on the right neurons, and you’re talking to Miller”. I especially liked Miller’s response to the challenge he may be an illusion.
Wasn't it clear from the outset that it was a space opera?
Originally Posted by subego View Post
Then, we start into S4, where all the sudden it’s Star Trek, with thousands of worlds to explore.

Ugh.
To me Star Trek is about meeting and interacting with alien species, but that doesn't happen in the series. Humans interact with the ring builders only indirectly. The ring gate that grew out of the protomolecule is a sophisticated machine that tries to connect with the ring builders, but fails.
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Aug 25, 2022, 09:52 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
I’ll say what Clarke said, only in a different order. That it has a scientific basis is irrelevant if it’s indistinguishable from magic.
If you showed someone from the Middle Ages an iPhone, an Airbus A380 or an F35, they'd also think it is magic. SciFi universes allow for advances in technologies which are beyond our current means and even violate laws of physics as we know them now. Any science fiction extrapolates our capabilities into the future, and explores the ramifications.

Just look at TOS where they have computers everywhere at a time when computers were produced in the thousands (?) rather than billions per year. Funnily enough, the computers we have now are in many ways a lot more sophisticated. Or at touch-based interfaces TNG introduced because it was cheaper — all of that is very reminiscent of touch interfaces we can buy today.
Originally Posted by subego View Post
What appeals to me about hard science fiction are the restrictions. Advancement of technology only serves to strip away those restrictions.
You will see that the technology by the ring builder is subject to rules, too, and the rules will play a significant role throughout the remainder of the series. They are much more stringent about this than e. g. the various incarnations of Star Trek where the range of the transporter changes according to the whims of the writers in a particular story. Not so in The Expanse.
Originally Posted by subego View Post
Yes, they are not traveling faster than light. They are traveling a distance faster than light. I’d be happier if they were restricted from doing this, because humanity will likely be restricted from doing this for far longer than 300 years.
Technically speaking, they are not traveling a distance faster than light, which is strictly forbidden by the laws of physics as we know them today. You are creating a shortcut in space-time, which significantly reduces the distance compared to the “normal” path you would take.
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Aug 25, 2022, 09:55 PM
 
Originally Posted by reader50 View Post
btw, the protomolecule isn't magic. Humans have nanotech, used for medical among other things. The protomolecule is molecular tech. At that level, we're all machines, so there is no longer a distinction between life and technology. Hence why the protomolecule displays properties of both. The batch from Phoebe wasn't programmed for first contact - it was sent around the time of the Great Oxidation Event, when Earth developed free oxygen. Probably how the builders realized there was a biosphere - a planet worth visiting.
Yup. And of course the machines built from the protomolecule are beyond humanities current capabilities. Exploring whether the ring gates are a threat or not will be a theme in Season 4 and beyond.
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subego  (op)
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Aug 26, 2022, 12:53 AM
 
Originally Posted by OreoCookie View Post
Technically speaking, they are not traveling a distance faster than light, which is strictly forbidden by the laws of physics as we know them today. You are creating a shortcut in space-time, which significantly reduces the distance compared to the “normal” path you would take.
I apologize for not phrasing this as precisely as I could.

What I’m saying is they traveled a distance in an amount of time which would require faster than light travel were it not for a wormhole.

I’m not taking issue with the science, I’m taking issue with removing the restriction.

I take issue with removing it because there is a virtual lock-cinch humanity will face this restriction for far longer than the next 300 years.

Personally, I think the colonization of the solar system is interesting enough on its own without the introduction of technology a million years down the line.
     
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Aug 26, 2022, 01:05 AM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
I’m not taking issue with the science, I’m taking issue with removing the restriction.

I take issue with removing it because there is a virtual lock-cinch humanity will face this restriction for far longer than the next 300 years.
The way I understand you is that you would have preferred for another story to be told, and that's totally cool.

I liked that the ring gates give an interesting spin to the story that exposes issues. You already see some in Season 4: many of the Belters want to move to a habitable world on one of the habitable ring gate planets, but they physiologically can't. You also see a struggle between the Belters who have started colonizing a planet and as soon as they found something of value, representatives from Mars or Earth show up, claiming to have a stake, too.

It will have very interesting consequences onwards, too. Just keep watching and take my word for it.
Originally Posted by subego View Post
Personally, I think the colonization of the solar system is interesting enough on its own without the introduction of technology a million years down the line.
Maybe. Take your issue up with the author of the book series
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Aug 26, 2022, 01:09 AM
 
Amos: So does that mean we’re not fucking anymore?

Watched two more episodes. Enjoyed them somewhat more than the last two. I can get into the politics of New Terra, but not the alien part. Murtry’s writing is a little one-dimensional, but he’s entertaining to watch. All the other storylines are interesting to me.

Unfortunately, I find Avasarala‘a swearing to be a little ridiculous.
     
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Aug 26, 2022, 03:33 AM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
Amos: So does that mean we’re not fucking anymore?
You should have quoted the rest of the dialog — although her “Are you for real?!” stare is hard to convey properly. His “Cool.” at the end of the exchange is what does it for me.
Originally Posted by subego View Post
Murtry’s writing is a little one-dimensional, but he’s entertaining to watch. All the other storylines are interesting to me.
He's perhaps the most predictable character of the bunch. Still, he kinda works as a foil for our heroes.
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Aug 26, 2022, 01:57 PM
 
Originally Posted by OreoCookie View Post
The way I understand you is that you would have preferred for another story to be told
Sorta?

I wanted to the show to carry through on what appeared to be the promise from early on, which is the technology would be restricted to what humans could plausibly develop and adopt within the time before the story was set.

I’m starved for television and movies which follow this rule. I was in heaven when the show delivered it at first.

Coupled with the inordinate skill of the writers on tap, IMO they had no trouble whatsoever making that interesting as is.

I was indeed disappointed when the show turned out to be something else.



Edit: in the show’s defense, the aliens have indirectly made Draper more interesting to me.
( Last edited by subego; Aug 26, 2022 at 05:37 PM. )
     
subego  (op)
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Aug 26, 2022, 05:49 PM
 
Originally Posted by OreoCookie View Post
You should have quoted the rest of the dialog
My thought was if I’ve put it in your head, mission’s accomplished.
     
Spheric Harlot
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Aug 26, 2022, 07:23 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
Then, we start into S4, where all the sudden it’s Star Trek, with thousands of worlds to explore.

Ugh.
That’s not at all where the story is going.
     
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Aug 26, 2022, 07:28 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
Sorta?

I wanted to the show to carry through on what appeared to be the promise from early on, which is the technology would be restricted to what humans could plausibly develop and adopt within the time before the story was set.
So you get why your "bad science" quibbles at the outset of this thread seemed comparatively ridiculous to me?

Don’t get me wrong — I’m all aboard with the "based on what we know, this is conceivable" idea. But there is such a huge jump in basic assumptions to the protomolecule, that discussing the feasibility of Gatling guns on a spacesuit just doesn’t seem worthwhile.

I hate Trekkie-style obvious bullshit, but I’m willing to cut writers some slack for making a good story.
     
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Aug 26, 2022, 09:54 PM
 
Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot View Post
I hate Trekkie-style obvious bullshit, but I’m willing to cut writers some slack for making a good story.
I’d even say that the story is better, because the writers have embraced many of the limitations. The space battles are extremely well-thought out, the way they use different weapon systems at different ranges really makes for some great battle scenes later on. This, in turn, gives different ships different relative strengths and weaknesses. The Roci has a lot of PDCs for its size whereas some other ships they encounter have more torpedoes. That’s consistent with the Roci being a support ship for larger battle groups.
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subego  (op)
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Aug 27, 2022, 01:02 AM
 
Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot View Post
That’s not at all where the story is going.
Everything is a matter of degree. It’s going more in that direction than it was before.

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot View Post
So you get why your "bad science" quibbles at the outset of this thread seemed comparatively ridiculous to me?
Yes. I could see it was going to go there before you mentioned it.

Before the protomolecule was introduced, it’s the hardest sci-fi I’m aware of on television, so you get why bad science quibbles occurred?

Honestly, I loved the quibble part. Sad to see it go.
     
subego  (op)
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Aug 27, 2022, 01:10 AM
 
Originally Posted by OreoCookie View Post
I’d even say that the story is better, because the writers have embraced many of the limitations.
That was my point. Embracing these limitations makes the story better. I believe the story would have been just fine without alien planets.

Though, if there are going to be alien planets, I appreciate them embracing it better than most. I dig budding crime lord Draper, as well as the sociopolitical implications motivating it.
     
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Aug 27, 2022, 01:18 AM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
Before the protomolecule was introduced, it’s the hardest sci-fi I’m aware of on television, so you get why bad science quibbles occurred?

Honestly, I loved the quibble part. Sad to see it go.
Quibble away. The human tech still obeys the rules we know of (or that are established in-universe).

My impression (supported through S4) is that we only occasionally interact with the Builder's remaining tech, and never learn it. Also, while there are alien worlds, there are no aliens. So we get extrasolar worlds and access to extra solar systems. Not even thousands, I think they said 1700 and change at the end of S3.

The story remains human-centric, and at least 99% human tech. With realistic politics, and interesting characters. Some even swear.
     
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Aug 27, 2022, 03:37 AM
 
Originally Posted by reader50 View Post
My impression (supported through S4) is that we only occasionally interact with the Builder's remaining tech, and never learn it.
Let me put it this way.

In the episodes I saw tonight, one of New Terra’s planetary reactors explodes, causing the tsunami and the failure of fusion.

Yes, they cope using human level tech, but I’d much rather they were coping with real scenarios we might encounter 300 years from now, not these contrived ones, which exist only due to alien technology.

Likewise, as interesting as the Mahhtian sociopolitics are, the New Terra ones are weak. Tonight I saw the episode where the Belters won’t leave unless Holden acquiesces to their demands.

This was just dumb. The Belters are all of the sudden willing to trust the Inners because Holden agrees to demands they can’t enforce?

As an aside, on principle, once the Belters started making demands I would have told them to go fuck themselves (excuse my creole).
     
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Aug 27, 2022, 03:46 AM
 
The Roci is the only warship in the system. And at this point, the Roci crew are heros to all 3 political groups. Holden could enforce against either group on New Terra, at the price of losing his neutrality. And he's supposed to be diplomatic, while investigating for Avasarala.
     
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Aug 27, 2022, 04:25 AM
 
I’m saying if the Belters are so convinced the call to flee is a trick, Holden’s word is worthless. If it trick, Inners break promise once we go, ke?

No. Telling them to go fuck themselves is the only thing these Belters understand, and hopefully they’ll come to their senses before it’s too late.

That’s exactly what they’d do if the roles were reversed.



To say something nice about the part of the show I dislike…

If you have to come up with some total bullshit reason an obstacle cannot be overcome by normal means, the fusion thing was extremely clever. I liked how it gave insight into the mystery of the moons. I liked how before that they just had the moons there, and no one really talked about them. I liked how it gave insight into ships operating on batteries, like a submarine.

I goddamn fucking loved the fuel pellets misfiring in the reactor.
     
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Aug 27, 2022, 05:12 AM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
I goddamn fucking loved the fuel pellets misfiring in the reactor.
That S4 scene is where I realized they used inertial confinement fusion. I'd been seeing pulsing indicators on engineering displays back in S3, such as in the Razorback and Behemoth. But hadn't put 2+2 together. Though when I later searched, I couldn't find a pulsing display example in S2 or S1.

tidbit: back in S2 when Eros "stopped rotating" - it didn't actually stop. An abrupt stop would bust things, and loss of spin gravity might mess up critical systems the protomolecule still needed, like the power generation. As Miller climbed the levels closer to the axis, the spin gravity will have dropped as usual.

The rotation was apparently stopped by generating a frame-dragging effect. Rotating the space Eros occupied, only in the opposite direction to the station. If the two rotations match, then Eros rotates as normal inside. But from an outside perspective, it's standing still. I think you could measure it by checking doppler shifts of stars seen near Eros, only the Roci probably wasn't equipped for science research.

Physics does not appear to forbid this, but there's no hint of how to accomplish it. Frame dragging is real, and happens around rotating masses, but always in the same direction the mass rotates.
     
subego  (op)
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Aug 27, 2022, 03:49 PM
 
I still want an answer to what they’re using as reaction mass. Do they fly on tits and a pony?

/Avasarala
     
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Aug 28, 2022, 03:47 AM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
Likewise, as interesting as the Mahhtian sociopolitics are, the New Terra ones are weak.
In what way are they weak?
Originally Posted by subego View Post
Tonight I saw the episode where the Belters won’t leave unless Holden acquiesces to their demands.

This was just dumb. The Belters are all of the sudden willing to trust the Inners because Holden agrees to demands they can’t enforce?
The crew of the Roci is Switzerland, a trustworthy interlocutor that isn’t on anyone’s side directly, but is trusted to do the right thing. They know he has connections to powerful people in Earth’s government (Arvaserala), the Belt (Tycho station) and to a lesser degree Mars.
Originally Posted by subego View Post
As an aside, on principle, once the Belters started making demands I would have told them to go fuck themselves (excuse my creole).
If you think a little ahead, you’ll see that the ring gates have strengthened the position of the Belters. Belters have been exploited as cheap labor force in the far reaches of the solar system. But now they can emigrate to other planets. Plus, where are the ring gates located? The smart power players on Earth and Mars know this, and I reckon this factors into the decision making.
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