[TerryJ]

Hey everybody,

I have a folder in my trash that simply will not empty! I copied it from a friend's G4 PM via Target Disk mode while we were moving some things around on different machines/drives and used my PB 1.25 running 10.4.1 for backup. I have tried rm in the Terminal as well as Cocktail and every force-trash-empty utility I can find on VT and MacUpdate. Stll nothing. Keeps telling me I don't have correct permissions but I have opened the Get Info window and set permissions for the folder and all enclosed items to Read/Write for myself as I am the Admin for my machine and the folder and all contents are also unlocked.

Any ideas how to dump this stuff? I've tried everything in the book!

Thanks!

[Podolsky]

Originally Posted by TerryJ

Any ideas how to dump this stuff? I've tried everything in the book!

Thanks!

Try pulling the folder out, putting into a folder on the desktop, create another folder and give it the same name as the offending folder, drag it into the folder that holds and when asked if you want to replace the folder say okay. Than, drag the folder into the trash and try dumping it. If that doesn't work than check the permissions and be sure that you have correct permission. There are other utilities that you can use for force-dumping the trash. Search for those on Version Tracker and give them a try. Though, I have had good luck with the first idea.

[osxrules]

Your trash is just an alias to the folder called .Trash in your home folder. Typing cd ~/.Trash, hit return and then ls -al then return will let you see the info about the folder. You should be able to sudo rm it. Remember, you have to use the -r or -d option if you are removing a folder. So it would be sudo rm -r and drag the folder into the terminal window or since you are in the .Trash folder, type the first few letters of the folder and hit tab, then return then input password.

You said you had read/write privileges, but are you the folder owner? If system is the owner, you still can't write to it. That's Apple's way to stop you deleting system stuff accidentally.

Sometimes I find secure delete works for some things. It even deletes items that the Finder says are in use. But I don't think that would work here.

If the sudo rm -r doesn't work, it could be that the folder has been set with the system immutable bit and to do anything to that, you need to log in as root user but I'd be surprised if that was the case.

[Randman]

Logging off and back on will also do the trick if you don't want to mess with Terminal.

[TerryJ]

Hey again and thanks very much for the suggestions...

This thing will not empty no matter what. I tried your suggestion osxrules and kept getting this message after hitting Return and entering my password ---

rm: illegal option -- /
usage: rm [-f | -i] [-dPRrvW] file ...
unlink file

I checked in the Get Info window and yes, I'm the owner there too. Still trying to figure this one out in case I ever see it happen again!

Thanks again for all the help!

[Hal Itosis]

Originally Posted by TerryJ

Still trying to figure this one out in case I ever see it happen again!

Well then, may we at least be allowed to "see" what we're talking about?
There might be something hidden somewhere that you don't own... and
perhaps it's protected (by an schg flag or something).

Paste this in Terminal:

sudo ls -haloR ~/.Trash /Volumes/*/.Trashes

hit enter, and post (paste) the results here.

[Groovy]

Originally Posted by TerryJ

Hey again and thanks very much for the suggestions...

This thing will not empty no matter what. I tried your suggestion osxrules and kept getting this message after hitting Return and entering my password ---

rm: illegal option -- /
usage: rm [-f | -i] [-dPRrvW] file ...
unlink file

I checked in the Get Info window and yes, I'm the owner there too. Still trying to figure this one out in case I ever see it happen again!

Thanks again for all the help!

try BatChmod. (goto versiontracker to DL it) it forces empty via a sudo if you want also.
if it can't force empty then use sloth (go DL it. great tool) to see who is using
that file/folder then tell them via sloth to not use it, then BatChmod it.

good luck

[TerryJ]

Hey Hal Itosis,

Thanks for the help. Here are the results...the offending folder is named Bad Trash.

Last login: Sun Jun 19 09:33:12 on console
Welcome to Darwin!
terry-jarrells-powerbook-g4-15:~ terry$ sudo ls -haloR ~/.Trash /Volumes/*/.Trashes
Password:
/Users/terry/.Trash:
total 0
drwx------ 3 terry terry - 102B Jun 19 01:21 .
drwxr-xr-x 18 terry terry - 612B Jun 16 14:23 ..
drwxrwxrwx 5 terry terry - 170B Jun 19 01:22 Bad Trash

/Users/terry/.Trash/Bad Trash:
total 16
drwxrwxrwx 5 terry terry - 170B Jun 19 01:22 .
drwx------ 3 terry terry - 102B Jun 19 01:21 ..
-rw-rw-rw- 1 terry terry - 6K Jun 19 01:22 .DS_Store
drwxrwxrwx 3 terry terry opaque 102B Jun 19 01:11 Apple Events Preview
drwxrwxrwx 3 terry terry - 102B Jun 19 01:11 junk

/Users/terry/.Trash/Bad Trash/Apple Events Preview:
total 0
drwxrwxrwx 3 terry terry opaque 102B Jun 19 01:11 .
drwxrwxrwx 5 terry terry - 170B Jun 19 01:22 ..
drwxrwxrwx 12 terry unknown sappnd,uappnd,opaque 408B Nov 5 1997 Sample Documents

/Users/terry/.Trash/Bad Trash/Apple Events Preview/Sample Documents:
total 0
drwxrwxrwx 12 terry unknown sappnd,uappnd,opaque 408B Nov 5 1997 .
drwxrwxrwx 3 terry terry opaque 102B Jun 19 01:11 ..
-rwxrwxrwx 1 terry terry - 0B Jun 17 00:49 ASB Text
-rwxrwxrwx 1 terry terry - 0B Jun 17 00:49 Bag.TIFF
-rwxrwxrwx 1 terry terry - 0B Jun 17 00:49 Base Text
-rwxrwxrwx 1 terry terry - 0B Jun 17 00:49 Catalog Layout
-rwxrwxrwx 1 terry terry - 0B Jun 17 00:49 Glove.TIFF
-rwxrwxrwx 1 terry terry - 0B Jun 17 00:49 Helmet.TIFF
-rwxrwxrwx 1 terry terry - 0B Jun 17 00:49 Icon?
-rwxrwxrwx 1 terry terry - 0B Jun 17 00:49 Key Text
-rwxrwxrwx 1 terry terry - 0B Jun 17 00:49 Picture Boxes
-rwxrwxrwx 1 terry terry - 0B Jun 17 00:49 Shirts.TIFF

/Users/terry/.Trash/Bad Trash/junk:
total 0
drwxrwxrwx 3 terry terry - 102B Jun 19 01:11 .
drwxrwxrwx 5 terry terry - 170B Jun 19 01:22 ..
drwxrwxrwx 6 terry terry - 204B Jun 19 01:11 garbage

/Users/terry/.Trash/Bad Trash/junk/garbage:
total 0
drwxrwxrwx 6 terry terry - 204B Jun 19 01:11 .
drwxrwxrwx 3 terry terry - 102B Jun 19 01:11 ..
drwxrwxrwx 6 terry unknown sappnd,uchg 204B Nov 5 1997 For Advanced Scripting
drwxrwxrwx 2 terry unknown sappnd,uappnd,uchg 68B Jan 8 1998 Launch
drwxrwxrwx 31 terry unknown sappnd,uappnd,uchg 1K Apr 8 1998 PDF
drwxrwxrwx 18 terry unknown sappnd,opaque 612B Nov 5 1998 XTension

/Users/terry/.Trash/Bad Trash/junk/garbage/For Advanced Scripting:
total 0
drwxrwxrwx 6 terry unknown sappnd,uchg 204B Nov 5 1997 .
drwxrwxrwx 6 terry terry - 204B Jun 19 01:11 ..
-rwxrwxrwx 1 terry terry - 0B Jun 17 00:49 Advanced Scripting Document
-rwxrwxrwx 1 terry terry - 0B Jun 17 00:49 Chapter 4-Advanced Scripting
-rwxrwxrwx 1 terry terry - 0B Jun 17 00:49 Document Construction
-rwxrwxrwx 1 terry terry - 0B Jun 17 00:49 QuarkXPress.Frontier

/Users/terry/.Trash/Bad Trash/junk/garbage/Launch:
total 0
drwxrwxrwx 2 terry unknown sappnd,uappnd,uchg 68B Jan 8 1998 .
drwxrwxrwx 6 terry terry - 204B Jun 19 01:11 ..

/Users/terry/.Trash/Bad Trash/junk/garbage/PDF:
total 0
drwxrwxrwx 31 terry unknown sappnd,uappnd,uchg 1K Apr 8 1998 .
drwxrwxrwx 6 terry terry - 204B Jun 19 01:11 ..
-rwxrwxrwx 1 terry terry - 0B Jun 17 00:49 4CAST
-rwxrwxrwx 1 terry terry - 0B Jun 17 00:49 Business LaserPrinter
-rwxrwxrwx 1 terry terry - 0B Jun 17 00:49 CG 9000PS
-rwxrwxrwx 1 terry terry - 0B Jun 17 00:49 Fiery
-rwxrwxrwx 1 terry terry - 0B Jun 17 00:49 G5241-PS Oce??Color
-rwxrwxrwx 1 terry terry - 0B Jun 17 00:49 LZR2665
-rwxrwxrwx 1 terry terry - 0B Jun 17 00:49 LaserWriter
-rwxrwxrwx 1 terry terry - 0B Jun 17 00:49 LaserWriter 16:600
-rwxrwxrwx 1 terry terry - 0B Jun 17 00:49 LaserWriter II
-rwxrwxrwx 1 terry terry - 0B Jun 17 00:49 LaserWriter II f-g
-rwxrwxrwx 1 terry terry - 0B Jun 17 00:49 LaserWriter Pro 600 & 630
-rwxrwxrwx 1 terry terry - 0B Jun 17 00:49 LaserWriter Pro 810
-rwxrwxrwx 1 terry terry - 0B Jun 17 00:49 LaserWriter Select 360
-rwxrwxrwx 1 terry terry - 0B Jun 17 00:49 Linotronic
-rwxrwxrwx 1 terry terry - 0B Jun 17 00:49 Monotype
-rwxrwxrwx 1 terry terry - 0B Jun 17 00:49 OmniLaser2115
-rwxrwxrwx 1 terry terry - 0B Jun 17 00:49 P400PS
-rwxrwxrwx 1 terry terry - 0B Jun 17 00:49 QMS ColorScript
-rwxrwxrwx 1 terry terry - 0B Jun 17 00:49 QMS ColorScript-10
-rwxrwxrwx 1 terry terry - 0B Jun 17 00:49 QMS-PS 2200
-rwxrwxrwx 1 terry terry - 0B Jun 17 00:49 Schlumberger 5232
-rwxrwxrwx 1 terry terry - 0B Jun 17 00:49 StyleScript 4550.PDF
-rwxrwxrwx 1 terry terry - 0B Jun 17 00:49 Tek Phaser CPS
-rwxrwxrwx 1 terry terry - 0B Jun 17 00:49 Tek Phaser CQS
-rwxrwxrwx 1 terry terry - 0B Jun 17 00:49 Tek Phaser PX
-rwxrwxrwx 1 terry terry - 0B Jun 17 00:49 VT-4200B-P
-rwxrwxrwx 1 terry terry - 0B Jun 17 00:49 VT-4300P
-rwxrwxrwx 1 terry terry - 0B Jun 17 00:49 VT-600
-rwxrwxrwx 1 terry terry - 0B Jun 17 00:49 VT-600W

/Users/terry/.Trash/Bad Trash/junk/garbage/XTension:
total 0
drwxrwxrwx 18 terry unknown sappnd,opaque 612B Nov 5 1998 .
drwxrwxrwx 6 terry terry - 204B Jun 19 01:11 ..
-rwxrwxrwx 1 terry terry - 0B Jun 17 00:49 Cool Blends
-rwxrwxrwx 1 terry terry - 0B Jun 17 00:49 EfiColor XTension
-rwxrwxrwx 1 terry terry - 0B Jun 17 00:49 Frontier??? Menu Sharing
-rwxrwxrwx 1 terry terry - 0B Jun 17 00:49 JPEG Import
-rwxrwxrwx 1 terry terry - 0B Jun 17 00:49 Kern:Track Editor
-rwxrwxrwx 1 terry terry - 0B Jun 17 00:49 MMU 3.2
-rwxrwxrwx 1 terry terry - 0B Jun 17 00:49 MS-Word??? Filter
-rwxrwxrwx 1 terry terry - 0B Jun 17 00:49 MS-Works??? 2.0 Filter
-rwxrwxrwx 1 terry terry - 0B Jun 17 00:49 MacWrite?? Filter
-rwxrwxrwx 1 terry terry - 0B Jun 17 00:49 MacWrite??Pro Import
-rwxrwxrwx 1 terry terry - 0B Jun 17 00:49 PCX Import
-rwxrwxrwx 1 terry terry - 0B Jun 17 00:49 PhotoCD XTension
-rwxrwxrwx 1 terry terry - 0B Jun 17 00:49 QuarkPrint???
-rwxrwxrwx 1 terry terry - 0B Jun 17 00:49 WordPerfect??? Filter
-rwxrwxrwx 1 terry terry - 0B Jun 17 00:49 WriteNow?? 3.0 Import
-rwxrwxrwx 1 terry terry - 0B Jun 17 00:49 WriteNow??? Filter

/Volumes/PowerBook HD/.Trashes:
total 0
d-wx-wx-wt 2 root admin - 68B Jun 17 00:27 .
drwxrwxr-t 34 root admin - 1K Jun 19 01:20 ..

/Volumes/iDisk/.Trashes:
total 0
d-wx-wx-wt 3 terry unknown - 102B Jun 19 09:33 .
dr-x------ 22 terry unknown - 850B Jun 19 09:33 ..
drwx------ 2 terry unknown - 68B Jun 19 09:33 501

/Volumes/iDisk/.Trashes/501:
total 0
drwx------ 2 terry unknown - 68B Jun 19 09:33 .
d-wx-wx-wt 3 terry unknown - 102B Jun 19 09:33 ..
terry-jarrells-powerbook-g4-15:~ terry$

[yogi]

do you have freeware:"onyx". It has a force empty trash routine.

[jay3ld]

i once had a file i just couldn't delete.
i finally booted up in 0s 9 and went though my files and forced it to delete there.
give that a try.

[osxrules]

Here are some of the definitions for the flags set on some of your files:

sappnd - the system-controlled append-only flag
schg - the system-controlled immutable flag
uappnd - the user append-only flag
uchg - the user immutable flag (on files, this is equivalent to locking the file in the Finder's Show Info box).

The sappnd and schg flags can't be removed (even by root) except in single-user mode.

You need to be what is known as super-duper user
Write this down if you don't have two machines or don't have a good memory.

Reboot holding command-s
This will take you to a terminal style input on boot.
Type mount -uw / to mount your disk as read/write
cd /Users/terry/.Trash
rm -f Bad Trash (logging in as single user effectively makes you super-duper user so no need for sudo)
Type exit to leave single user mode and the machine should continue booting as usual.

If you make significant changes, it's better to type reboot instead of exit but here exit should be fine since you are not changing anything system related.

[TerryJ]

Hey osxrules,

Thanks for the greatly detailed info. However, when I enter the command, mount -uw, it will not mount as read/write. I have typed everything in exactly as you have shown and it still isn't working. I ran fsck and the disk came back OK and everything else is running perfectly, I just can's get this rotten folder to go away!

[Hal Itosis]

Originally Posted by TerryJ

when I enter the command, mount -uw, it will not mount as read/write.

Did you include the space and the slash at the end?
mount -uw /
(the slash indicates what is to be mounted)

Can this Mac be booted into OS9?

Or, have you got another Mac that will boot OS9...
which can mount your HD in FireWire Target Disk mode?

[Randman]

Logging off and back on didn't help?

Did you do a restart?

[TerryJ]

Yes, I did use the space and slash...really surprised that it didn't mount. No, My AlBook 1.25 won't boot into OS 9 but I guess I can do Target Disk Mode with my wife's TiBook and try that. Also, I have restarted, logged off and on, etc. many times with no change.

[osxrules]

Originally Posted by TerryJ

when I enter the command, mount -uw, it will not mount as read/write.

Try /sbin/mount -uw / instead; it might need the full path.

[Big Mac]

I would also try to get the drive the file came from, reconnect it and then try to trash the file.

[Hal Itosis]

Originally Posted by Randman

> Logging off and back on didn't help?
> Did you do a restart?

Now I see why you have over 6,500 posts.

Here is part of TerryJ's listing:

Code:
/Users/terry/.Trash/Bad Trash/Apple Events Preview:
total 0
drwxrwxrwx 3 terry terry opaque 102B Jun 19 01:11 .
drwxrwxrwx 5 terry terry - 170B Jun 19 01:22 ..
drwxrwxrwx 12 terry unknown sappnd,uappnd,opaque 408B Nov 5 1997 Sample Documents

/Users/terry/.Trash/Bad Trash/junk/garbage:
total 0
drwxrwxrwx 6 terry terry - 204B Jun 19 01:11 .
drwxrwxrwx 3 terry terry - 102B Jun 19 01:11 ..
drwxrwxrwx 6 terry unknown sappnd,uchg 204B Nov 5 1997 For Advanced Scripting
drwxrwxrwx 2 terry unknown sappnd,uappnd,uchg 68B Jan 8 1998 Launch
drwxrwxrwx 31 terry unknown sappnd,uappnd,uchg 1K Apr 8 1998 PDF
drwxrwxrwx 18 terry unknown sappnd,opaque 612B Nov 5 1998 XTension

When accessed from a multi-user UNIX environment, those items with
a "sappnd" flag are practically welded to the HD. AFAIK, there are only
3 ways to remove them:

1) boot into single-user mode (the real Superman) and use UNIX commands.
2) boot into OS9 and use whatever works.
3) erase the entire HD.

[jay3ld]

couldnt he boot of another hd and make the normal drive in terms become a slave drive? this would allow him to do it.

[discotronic]

Try Cocktail:

http://www.macosxcocktail.com/

[Hal Itosis]

Originally Posted by jay3ld

couldnt he boot of another hd and make the normal drive in terms become a slave drive? this would allow him to do it.

You mean boot into OSX, or OS9? (OS9 would work).

Under OSX . . . hmm, I wonder if ticking the
"Ignore ownerships on this volume" checkbox
would then allow deletions. I don't recall if that was
tried in any of the threads like this I've seen. Sounds
like it's worth a shot though.

Originally Posted by discotronic

Try Cocktail

Won't do it. No OSX "utility" will (as long as
permissions/file modes are functional).

[siflippant]

Try 'trash it' - this has saved me a number of times... but there again, I'm just too lazy to use the terminal...

http://www.versiontracker.com/dyn/moreinfo/macosx/14884

[Hal Itosis]

Originally Posted by siflippant

Try 'trash it' - this has saved me a number of times...
but there again, I'm just too lazy to use the terminal...

Pay attention folks.
"Trash It" won't work.
Terminal.app won't work!!!

NOTHING running under **OSX** will work.
(unless MAYBE the volume is mounted as non-boot,
and the "Ignore ownerships . . ." theory proves true).

Other than that, it's the 3 ways I listed above.

--

It's an interesting situation. For fun and experimentation,
you could try deleting the user... but I have serious doubts.
(And that could maybe create more problems than it solves).

[sspire]

Be cautious with Coctail. Many users report worse problems after using it.

Try this:
Compost 1.6.5
http://www.mac-compost.com
Compost is OS X 10.4 “Tiger” Ready

4.9 out of 5.0 star rating at versiontracker.com

"Useful trash, part 2" (Good Article//Review Below)

Provide Feeback Here:
http://www.versiontracker.com/dyn/mo...&mode=feedback

Whether you’re an individual Mac user, or a network administrator looking to help your users better manage their free space, Compost can help you.

• Trash Expiry Date: Delete files that have been in the trash beyond a certain time
• Maximum Size: Cap the trash at a certain size
• Free Space Monitor: Specify a minimum free space threshold

Have you ever wondered where all your free space went? Have you ever noticed that you’ve got 3 GB of files in your trash can? Or maybe you’ve regretted losing an important file because you’re in the habit of emptying your trash immediately so as not to accumulate 3 GB of files in your trash can because you hate to run out of free space. Hmm... something isn’t quite right.

End the trash can tyranny
Compost solves these problems by letting you set a time limit on your trash, cap its size, and maintain a minimum amount of space. In addition, it features:

Secure Deletion: Security for your sensitive files
Flexibility: Change settings both globally and for each disk
Empty Individual Cans: A contextual menu item to empty the trash on a single disk (and optionally unmount it)
Shredding: A contextual menu item to immediately erase files, bypassing the trash
Detailed Information: A replacement Get Info window for the trash can that tells you how much space is taken up overall and on each disk

Whether you’re an individual Mac user, or a network administrator looking to help your users better manage their free space, Compost can help you.

System Requirements:
Compost requires Mac OS X 10.2 or higher. That’s it.
(Compost is OS X 10.4 “Tiger” Ready Now)

The Background
The Trash was a brilliant innovation when it appeared on Mac users’ desktops in 1984. Like a safe holding area, it lets you have second thoughts about files you want to delete. As hard disks have grown though, so have people’s trash cans, and it’s now easy to eat up your entire disk with stuff that, in most cases, you don’t want.

Some people, especially new Mac users, have no idea how much is in their trash. Others are all too aware, and so they keep it clean and shining empty, eliminating any possibile benefit of “oops” recovery. Either way, the Trash is an all-or-nothing affair, and neither way is particularly convenient for today’s demanding users.

Compost solves all these problems and more.

From the Creator:
I’ve written software for over a dozen platforms from NCR mainframes down to Palm OS handhelds, and I've been a Mac programmer since 1988. I wrote Compost for a few reasons, the foremost of which is that I wanted it. There were similar programs for older versions of Mac OS, but nothing supported or was even supportable under OS X. Compost fills that gap.

Article/Review: Useful trash, part 2
By Dan Frakes

Read the following article on the MacWorld website. Don't copy and paste it into other public forums, though, as this breaks MacWorld's terms of service. http://www.macworld.com/info/tos/

http://www.macworld.com/weblogs/macg...post/index.php

[Superchicken]

Do you have an old OS 9 mac to log into OS X with? Sometimes that helped me with deleting stuff years ago...

[Hal Itosis]

On June 21, 2005, at 06:57 PM, sspire didst favor us with:

Originally Posted by sspire

> Try this:
> Compost 1.6.5
> [ . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ]

Nice program . . . WRONG thread.

It would help to read previous material before posting.
The 2nd post by osxrules contains crucial details.

--

BTW, are we allowed to post COPIES of LONG articles like that "Compost" one?
Most message boards frown on this plagiaristic practice, for copyright reasons.
But, perhaps sspire got permission from Dan Frakes (and VersionTracker and
Macworld) before posting it here in its entirety...



(Sure hope TerryJ posts back soon . . . I getting tired of this "kiddie-$#!t").

[TerryJ]

Hey everybody,
Wow, all I can say is thanks for all the help but nothing...NOTHING is working. I have one last resort and that is to boot from a TiBook I will have access to tomorrow, in OS 9 in Target Disk Mode to see if that works.

I'll post back to let everybody know if that did the trick.

Much thanks to everyone!

[siflippant]

Originally Posted by Hal Itosis

Pay attention folks.
"Trash It" won't work.
Terminal.app won't work!!!

NOTHING running under **OSX** will work.
(unless MAYBE the volume is mounted as non-boot,
and the "Ignore ownerships . . ." theory proves true).

Other than that, it's the 3 ways I listed above.

--

It's an interesting situation. For fun and experimentation,
you could try deleting the user... but I have serious doubts.
(And that could maybe create more problems than it solves).

LMFAO, forgive me for whizzing through these posts while on a quick break at work then...

sweet

[TerryJ]

FINALLY!

I was able to boot off another TiBook that was capable of booting into OS 9 then mount my AlBook in TDM, browse the drive then trash it from there. Worked like a charm!

Thanks again for all the help everybody! Looks like we all found out about some of the limitations of all these 'super trash emptying' utilities out there too, huh?