Welcome to the MacNN Forums.

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

You are here: MacNN Forums > Software - Troubleshooting and Discussion > macOS > Tiger 10.4 to be last annual update!

Tiger 10.4 to be last annual update! (Page 2)
Thread Tools
Gavin
Mac Elite
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Seattle
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 22, 2004, 05:17 AM
 
You could also read this news as Tiger isn't coming out till 2008 because the new database based file system needs more work.

I'd have no problem waiting until next year for a database file system and better QA.


I also buy the argument that a longer cycle lets Software companies develop some cool stuff that uses the new features and which is ready when the new OS ships. This would allow for much bigger changes with each new system; like new API big.
     
Link
Professional Poster
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Hyrule
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 22, 2004, 06:34 AM
 
Why not change the landscape a little? I know it's not like apple to do but 10.3 is barely at 10.3.4 yet, and they STILL haven't addressed a plethora of issues with finder, security, the kernel itself, etc...

Perhaps 10.4 is going to be to 10.3 as 10.1 was to 10.0.. you never know

I doubt this though, and if apple plans to release something entirely new let's just hope it's well worth the wait AND money.
Aloha
     
JLL
Professional Poster
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 22, 2004, 06:43 AM
 
Originally posted by Agasthya:
I think 10.3 was the last annual update.

Tiger is only being announced and previewed at WWDC (which is later than it was last year). I think Tiger will be coming out during MWSF at the earliest (remember, Panther came out in late October).
Panther was announced and previewed at WWDC 2003 (June 23).
JLL

- My opinions may have changed, but not the fact that I am right.
     
goMac
Posting Junkie
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Portland, OR
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 22, 2004, 03:52 PM
 
Originally posted by lngtones:
where did you find information about Tiger?
One could look at the list of WWDC sessions. That gives some pretty big hints.

The Acceleration framework looks pretty darn spiffy. I know Carpe Stellarem will have people at that session...

Edit: D'oh. The Acceleration framework is in 10.3. Nothing new with that... Move along...

It looks like there is some new networking stuff in 10.4 though. There is also a "Spoken Interface" session.
( Last edited by goMac; May 22, 2004 at 04:00 PM. )
8 Core 2.8 ghz Mac Pro/GF8800/2 23" Cinema Displays, 3.06 ghz Macbook Pro
Once you wanted revolution, now you're the institution, how's it feel to be the man?
     
Link
Professional Poster
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Hyrule
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 22, 2004, 04:24 PM
 
It's gonna suck if they don't release this until january >_<
Aloha
     
CharlesS
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Dec 2000
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 22, 2004, 04:42 PM
 
Originally posted by Link:
It's gonna suck if they don't release this until january >_<
Since 10.5 won't be released on the yearly schedule, they should take as much time as they need with this one, since it will be the one that competes with Longhorn.

Ticking sound coming from a .pkg package? Don't let the .bom go off! Inspect it first with Pacifist. Macworld - five mice!
     
Link
Professional Poster
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Hyrule
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 22, 2004, 05:10 PM
 
WE HOPE it competes with longhorn
Aloha
     
todrain
Senior User
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Dallas, TX 75287
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 23, 2004, 11:24 AM
 
Originally posted by Link:
WE HOPE it competes with longhorn
Well, since Longhorn might not ship for YEARS, Tiger probably won't be around when Longhorn ships.

I wonder if Apple will do something else to keep people spending that $129 a year for OS updates, since they've said that releases are slowing down. They'll probably come out with some other app or device that will keep the mac faithful spending... once they get used to that influx of cash each year, it's hard to stop depending on it.
     
vsurfer
Senior User
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Noo Yawk
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 23, 2004, 11:27 AM
 
Originally posted by Thorin:
Looks like Apple are going to slow down the rate that they release major OS X updates.

Story from The Register



Sounds like a reasonable decision to me. I don't want to have to shell out money for an update every year. So long as they don't leave it too long between updates.
_____________

I'm with the original poster on this.
     
opheim
Junior Member
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Bergen, Norway
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 23, 2004, 01:55 PM
 
Originally posted by nagromme:
Second, regarding cost, US$129 is NOT "full" price, it's an upgrade to whatever version of Mac OS (8? 9? X?) you already own. Some expect OS X should ship at two different prices--like a new version of Photoshop or Office does--but that would only make sense if there were buyers who did not ALREADY own Mac OS. Apple has never sold Macs without Mac OS, so there IS no "standalone"/"first purchase" price for OS X. Everyone's first Mac OS purchase is simply bundled WITH a Mac. Apple could still offer a range of different prices depending on HOW old your current OS is--but many app vendors don't do that either: it complicates the upgrade for both buyers and retailers. Buyers would then need to use a serial number scheme or dig up an old DVD or otherwise electronically prover ownership, while retailers would have to stock at least 2 different versions. I'm glad Apple has kept it simple rather than charging more to OS 8/9 owners or something like that. A mail-in rebate would make more sense, but I'm just happy that Apple doesn't do what Macromedia does: charge you more if you miss too may upgrades in a row. (Sure, I'd love every upgrade of every software to be $5... or free... but developing them isn't free.)
I'd have to disagree on this one. Claiming that the $129 is an upgrade price is IMHO wrong, since it most definately does not demand a previous version. One might argue with the fact you mention that Apple has never sold a computer without an OS, but then again, nothing prohibits me from erasing the harddrive of my PB and sell it without an OS installed. The buyer would still be able to use the $129-pack from Apple. In the computer industry, an "Upgrade"-version normally needs a previous version installed, have you point at some specific file from an earlier version or at least have you type in a previous version serial number. This is not the case for OSX, and therefor I'd call it a "Full" version. Apple could very well go like this: If you have OS7,8,9: Full - $129. If you have 10.0, 10.1, 10.2 or 10.3: Upgrade: $79, if they wanted to. Then I'd agree on calling the latter one an "Upgrade" version.

But I guess we'll have to wait and see how Apple decides to ship Tiger when it comes to cost for the consumers.
Hallvard Opheim
Dual 2GHz G5, 9800Pro, 2.5GB, BT, iSight
PB17 1GHz, 1GB
     
Superchicken
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Winnipeg
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 23, 2004, 04:13 PM
 
Enter iLife

Mac OS X will continue to be the OS, and they will continue to add features though they will have fewer great ideas to throw in without bloating it. Thus all the cool stuff that they want the mac faithful preaching they'll be throwing into iLife

Just wait till they start saying Mail and Safari are part of iLife Nah doubt they'd do that. Though iCal, iSync and iChat may become part of iLIfe.

Anyway, you know how when they introduced iPhoto it was a huge deal, and iDVD, and iChat AV, and basically every new App that was more than system level stuff? That'll be iLife from now on. And I almost garuntee you that will be updated once a year.
     
CharlesS
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Dec 2000
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 23, 2004, 05:08 PM
 
Originally posted by Superchicken:
Anyway, you know how when they introduced iPhoto it was a huge deal, and iDVD, and iChat AV, and basically every new App that was more than system level stuff? That'll be iLife from now on. And I almost garuntee you that will be updated once a year.
Of all the applications that are only available in iLife - iMovie, iDVD, iPhoto, and GarageBand, only one of them was originally free - iPhoto. The rest either had to be paid for or were bundled with new hardware.

Ticking sound coming from a .pkg package? Don't let the .bom go off! Inspect it first with Pacifist. Macworld - five mice!
     
Superchicken
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Winnipeg
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 23, 2004, 06:00 PM
 
Originally posted by CharlesS:
Of all the applications that are only available in iLife - iMovie, iDVD, iPhoto, and GarageBand, only one of them was originally free - iPhoto. The rest either had to be paid for or were bundled with new hardware.
Then how come I was able to download iMovie for my 333Mhz? iMovie up to version 3 was generally thrown in with OS X.
     
CharlesS
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Dec 2000
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 23, 2004, 06:15 PM
 
Originally posted by Superchicken:
Then how come I was able to download iMovie for my 333Mhz? iMovie up to version 3 was generally thrown in with OS X.
The original version of iMovie was bundled with DV iMacs. Users of other machines could buy it for $20. I believe iMovie 2 was a $50 paid upgrade as well. It became free for a brief period afterwards, but it originally had a price, just as it does now.

Ticking sound coming from a .pkg package? Don't let the .bom go off! Inspect it first with Pacifist. Macworld - five mice!
     
bradoesch
Professional Poster
Join Date: Jun 2000
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 23, 2004, 07:50 PM
 
Originally posted by CharlesS:
The original version of iMovie was bundled with DV iMacs. Users of other machines could buy it for $20. I believe iMovie 2 was a $50 paid upgrade as well. It became free for a brief period afterwards, but it originally had a price, just as it does now.
At one time iMovie 1 was a free download. I believe when iMovie 2 came out, it was $50 like you say, but came free with new Macs and was bundled with OS X.
     
kw99
Fresh-Faced Recruit
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: San Francisco
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 23, 2004, 10:14 PM
 
I don't think Apple is running out of ideas OR that it's doesn't want to collect revenue for annual (more or less) updates. After Tiger, I think Apple wants to carefully plan what is in the next release so that it superior to Microsoft's Longhorn in every significant way. I expect Apple to be even more secretive about the next release after Tiger, and that it will be released at about the same time (or just before) the release of Longhorn. This will prevent MS from copying pre-release ideas from Mac OS X, whereas it will be easy for Apple to copy any good ideas MS might have in Longhorn (because MS is not as secretive).

Maybe the next release after Tiger will even be a "whole number" update... Mac OS XI.
     
msuper69
Professional Poster
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Columbus, OH
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 23, 2004, 10:24 PM
 
Originally posted by kw99:
I don't think Apple is running out of ideas OR that it's doesn't want to collect revenue for annual (more or less) updates. After Tiger, I think Apple wants to carefully plan what is in the next release so that it superior to Microsoft's Longhorn in every significant way. I expect Apple to be even more secretive about the next release after Tiger, and that it will be released at about the same time (or just before) the release of Longhorn. This will prevent MS from copying pre-release ideas from Mac OS X, whereas it will be easy for Apple to copy any good ideas MS might have in Longhorn (because MS is not as secretive).

Maybe the next release after Tiger will even be a "whole number" update... Mac OS XI.
I think you are on the right track here.

However, the name "Mac OS X" will be with us for at least 10 years. I believe that is what Steve-o said a few years back. We had the Classic Mac OS. Now we have Mac OS X. I don't think we will ever see a Mac OS XI or XII, etc. The X just happens to be pronounced as the Roman Numeral but it's just a new name to break from the old.
     
CharlesS
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Dec 2000
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 23, 2004, 10:51 PM
 
Originally posted by bradoesch:
At one time iMovie 1 was a free download. I believe when iMovie 2 came out, it was $50 like you say, but came free with new Macs and was bundled with OS X.
I distinctly remember that originally you had to get an iMac DV in order to get iMovie 1. Apple later released it for free because everyone was complaining about it. Nowadays, I think iMovie is enough of a quality product that it is no longer that big of a deal for them to charge for it.

Ticking sound coming from a .pkg package? Don't let the .bom go off! Inspect it first with Pacifist. Macworld - five mice!
     
nagromme
Senior User
Join Date: Dec 2000
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 24, 2004, 12:13 AM
 
Originally posted by opheim:
I'd have to disagree on this one. Claiming that the $129 is an upgrade price is IMHO wrong, since it most definately does not demand a previous version. One might argue with the fact you mention that Apple has never sold a computer without an OS, but then again, nothing prohibits me from erasing the harddrive of my PB and sell it without an OS installed. The buyer would still be able to use the $129-pack from Apple. In the computer industry, an "Upgrade"-version normally needs a previous version installed, have you point at some specific file from an earlier version or at least have you type in a previous version serial number. This is not the case for OSX, and therefor I'd call it a "Full" version.
Not true. Many apps don't require you to deal with proof-of-purchase when upgrading from another version. Some do, some don't. Why should Apple demand proof, just for the used-buyer scenario you outline? It would make people demand the OS CD when buying a used Mac, which seems fairly trivial... and would cause lots of aggravation for everyone. I'm not at all surprised they don't use such a scheme. I'm glad they don't!

It's still an upgrade. You could argue that Apple should offer a range of prices based on how old your old version is. Sure, that makes sense--but again, not every software company does that, so why demand it of Apple? And unless it was a rebate after the fact, it would make things complex at the retail level too--you'd need to sell multiple versions.

I'm glad Apple keeps it simple. Yes, I wish major OS updates were $99 or $5 or ten cents or free Not happening, though.
nagromme
     
Talk2Angus
Forum Regular
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Durban, South Africa
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 24, 2004, 05:15 AM
 
If they are going to end anual major updates, they should increase the number of minor (free 10.4.?) updates. Having very few beacuse the dev is being rolled into the yearly major is sort of ok, letting the OS 'wither' while the next update could be 2 years away is not so good.
TALK2U Soon
Angus Pohl
Solutions Engineer
Durban
South Afica
     
absmiths
Mac Elite
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Edmond, OK USA
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 24, 2004, 10:55 AM
 
Originally posted by Black Book:
Hmm... I downloaded 10.3.1 for free after buying 10.3

However, I paid ~100 for 10.1 (when I already had 10.0) with a student discount. That may just have been something for here in the UK though - I read about people getting free upgrades from 10.0-10.1, but I couldn't... PCWorld over here were supposed to do it, but not that I seen...

I don't understand how you paid to go from 10.3.0 -> 10.3.1 - it was a free download via software update, as all the 10.x.x updates have been (unless I'm missing something).
I am not sure what you are responding to but it wasn't my post. I never paid for a 10.n.n release and never implied that anyone ever did. The point is, when discussing upgrade fees, it is appropriate to talk about major releases (10.0, 10.1, 10.2, 10.3, 10.4, etc), but not tertial releases (10.1.x, 10.2.x), since those are ALWAYS free. E.G., it is inappropriate to say - "We get every other upgrade free, 10.1 - PAID, 10.1.1 - FREE, 10.2 - PAID, 10.2.1 - FREE".

This is the original quote by typoon that I was responding to (emphasis mine):

"Apple has been using the Paid update then free update path for a while now. System 7-8.0 Paid 8.0-8.1 free,8.1-8.5 paid, 8.5-8.6 was a paid upgrade. 8.6-9.0 was a paid upgrade. I also believe 9.0- 9.1/.2 was a paid upgrade as well. Same as it's been since OS X 10.0. 10.0-10.1 Paid, 10.1-10.1.x free, 10.1-10.2 Paid 10.2-10.2.x free 10.2-10.3 Paid 10.3-10.3.x free."
     
absmiths
Mac Elite
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Edmond, OK USA
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
May 24, 2004, 10:59 AM
 
Originally posted by nagromme:
After Tiger, releases will be slowing down? They already have been. It's natural for a new OS. Upgrade or not as you see fit.

... 14 paragraphs snipped ...

If Tiger makes it in 2004, though, as Apple now seems to be aiming for, I'll be pleased. I won't HAVE to buy it if I'd rather wait a few months or even skip it and wait for 10.5. (With most products I buy every other upgrade and cut my costs in half.) But if it's like Jaguar and Panther were, it will be well worth my money.
Does anybody read posts this long? I swear some people think they are columnists . . .
     
 
Thread Tools
 
Forum Links
Forum Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Top
Privacy Policy
All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:23 PM.
All contents of these forums © 1995-2017 MacNN. All rights reserved.
Branding + Design: www.gesamtbild.com
vBulletin v.3.8.8 © 2000-2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.,