Welcome to the MacNN Forums.

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

You are here: MacNN Forums > Hardware - Troubleshooting and Discussion > Mac Notebooks > PC equivalent of 12" powerbook

PC equivalent of 12" powerbook
Thread Tools
khans
Fresh-Faced Recruit
Join Date: Dec 2003
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Dec 8, 2004, 02:00 PM
 
I'm wondering what the closest PC equivalent to a 12" powerbook is. My wife is a realtor and the web software that she uses most of the time makes use of special IE for Windows features *LAME*. Hence, only a Windblows laptop will meet her needs.

Of importance

- portability (light - none of that desktop replacement stuff)
- bluetooth
- ethernet (preferably gigabit ethernet)
- firewire
- usb 2.0
- cd-rw / dvd-rw (prefably dvd burner)
- DVI out would be awesome
- 802.11g

I was looking the Thinkpad T41 series which had most of the above but with IBM selling out the entire business I've taken it off my list.

After looking at what else is out there, my 15" powerbook really is an excellent value proposition.
     
Voch
Mac Elite
Join Date: Apr 2001
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Dec 8, 2004, 03:33 PM
 
Do you share the 15" PowerBook now? If she only needs Windows for the occasional Internet Explorer session how's about using Virtual PC? Sounds like this is exactly what Virtual PC is for (the occasional non-CPU-intensive task).

Voch
     
meatyocre
Junior Member
Join Date: Oct 2003
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Dec 8, 2004, 04:25 PM
 
I agree with Voch, but if really want a comparable model, you will probably have to sacrifice some features.

The Dell 700m seems like very popular model these days.
     
madmacgames
Grizzled Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2003
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Dec 8, 2004, 04:26 PM
 
Originally posted by Voch:
Do you share the 15" PowerBook now? If she only needs Windows for the occasional Internet Explorer session how's about using Virtual PC? Sounds like this is exactly what Virtual PC is for (the occasional non-CPU-intensive task).
Apparently you can't read. He said the web software she uses most of the time needs IE windows.

Yeah occasional surfing on Virtual PC is alright, like if you are checking to see what a website looks like, or one website that you use once in a while needs it. But all the time? That'd be a pain in the ass and really suck unless maybe you have a G5 or something that could emulate it as a decent PC.
The only thing necessary for evil to flourish is for good men to do nothing
- Edmund Burke
     
macaddict0001
Mac Elite
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Edmonton, AB
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Dec 8, 2004, 05:23 PM
 
toshiba sony and ibm have some comparable models.
     
Filburt
Junior Member
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Foster City, CA
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Dec 9, 2004, 01:56 AM
 
HP has steadily improved its notebooks, to a point where I wouldn't hesitate recommending them (if you need to run Windows). Of course, they are nowhere as slick nor refined as Apple, but they are cheap and well equipped. I recommend its zt3000 for 15-inch equivalent (15.4" widescreen LCD) and dv1000 if want it a bit smaller (14" widescreen LCD).
     
SEkker
Grizzled Veteran
Join Date: May 2003
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Dec 9, 2004, 02:50 PM
 
I picked up some of the latest HP laptops -- they are still bulkier and heavier than the older Pismo Mac PB. A few have achieved the TiPB is style factor, but they still weigh 1-2 lbs more than the Apple equivalent.

Some of the Sony models seem to have the form factor right.

My advice -- test the keyboard, trackpad and screen before you purchase for personal preference. I've seen some Dell laptops with decent keyboards (on cheaper models), while the higher end models' keyboards had a terrible feel to me.
     
Filburt
Junior Member
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Foster City, CA
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Dec 9, 2004, 05:23 PM
 
Originally posted by SEkker:
I picked up some of the latest HP laptops -- they are still bulkier and heavier than the older Pismo Mac PB. A few have achieved the TiPB is style factor, but they still weigh 1-2 lbs more than the Apple equivalent.

Some of the Sony models seem to have the form factor right.
I won't argue that Sony makes considerably slicker and more luggable notebooks, but HP is considerably cheaper. And it's really not that big and bad looking in person, at least for running Windows XP. HP zt3000 as comparably equipped as 15-inch PowerBook costs mere $1574. VAIO A-series as comparably equipped as 15-inch PowerBook costs $1899.

Either way, I strongly recommend getting an extended warranty. Although HP's reliability has improved, I wouldn't trust it that much.
     
SEkker
Grizzled Veteran
Join Date: May 2003
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Dec 10, 2004, 11:06 AM
 
Originally posted by Filburt:
[B]I won't argue that Sony makes considerably slicker and more luggable notebooks, but HP is considerably cheaper. And it's really not that big and bad looking in person, at least for running Windows XP. HP zt3000 as comparably equipped as 15-inch PowerBook costs mere $1574. VAIO A-series as comparably equipped as 15-inch PowerBook costs $1899.
But did you PICK UP one of those HPs? They're probably 2 lbs heavier than the Sony or Mac models. This comparison really points out the cost of more refined engineering of laptops at $325/1899 = 17%. Mac users have come to expect that value in their machines; many PC users tend to minimize that value.
     
Randman
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: MacNN database error. Please refresh your browser.
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Dec 10, 2004, 11:08 AM
 
IE for Windows on a VPC should be very manageable with plenty of ram and eye candy/sound reduced to the max on an iBook or PowerBook.

This is a computer-generated message and needs no signature.
     
Filburt
Junior Member
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Foster City, CA
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Dec 10, 2004, 07:25 PM
 
Originally posted by SEkker:
But did you PICK UP one of those HPs? They're probably 2 lbs heavier than the Sony or Mac models. This comparison really points out the cost of more refined engineering of laptops at $325/1899 = 17%. Mac users have come to expect that value in their machines; many PC users tend to minimize that value.
Yes, my girlfriend owns the 15-inch model. The 15-inch model (zt3000) weighs about 6.5 lbs and 14-inch model (dv1000) weighs 5.3 bs. In practice, an extra 0.8 lbs is not going to make that much of a difference unless you carry it along with other gears frequently.
     
SEkker
Grizzled Veteran
Join Date: May 2003
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Dec 10, 2004, 10:25 PM
 
Originally posted by Filburt:
Yes, my girlfriend owns the 15-inch model. The 15-inch model (zt3000) weighs about 6.5 lbs and 14-inch model (dv1000) weighs 5.3 bs. In practice, an extra 0.8 lbs is not going to make that much of a difference unless you carry it along with other gears frequently.
For comparison, the old Apple Pismo and my PB17 run ~6.9 lbs. And how big and heavy is the power brick? Together, Apple and Sony make machines one size larger, at the same weight.

The reason this matters is when you start looking at real mobility. These little weight differences can add up. I find the PB17 size (width in particular) to make this machine more comfortable for me than the TiPB, Pismo, etc. I would not WANT a HP version, it would be nearly 10 lbs.
     
crazeazn
Dedicated MacNNer
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: houston/dfw
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Dec 10, 2004, 11:49 PM
 
i would still reccomend the ibm notebook, then anything from sony after that...

sony 505 series, and ibm T series
12" AI book REV B, mac mini core duo 1.66
     
Filburt
Junior Member
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Foster City, CA
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Dec 11, 2004, 04:57 AM
 
Originally posted by SEkker:
For comparison, the old Apple Pismo and my PB17 run ~6.9 lbs. And how big and heavy is the power brick? Together, Apple and Sony make machines one size larger, at the same weight.

The reason this matters is when you start looking at real mobility. These little weight differences can add up. I find the PB17 size (width in particular) to make this machine more comfortable for me than the TiPB, Pismo, etc. I would not WANT a HP version, it would be nearly 10 lbs.
HP's AC adapter is not that heavy -- not much more than Apple's own, if at that. We are not talking about that heavy of a 'book here, especially considering its 15.4-inch screen. Granted, Apple and Sony may make similar models that weigh less and occupy less space (although Sony's 15.4" widescreen models appear to be much heavier and bigger than HP's), but the margin is not that significant.

Instead of keep asking me this and that, go see one for yourself (if you need a Windows XP 'book). While HP's widescreen 'books are not going to win a beauty contest, they represent great value while being more portable than many comparable 'books. I do wish they have better GPU options, however (ATI RADEON MOBILITY 9200 is weak).
     
tooki
Admin Emeritus
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Zurich, Switzerland
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Dec 11, 2004, 01:41 PM
 
Originally posted by Randman:
IE for Windows on a VPC should be very manageable with plenty of ram and eye candy/sound reduced to the max on an iBook or PowerBook.
Buying a Mac to run almost exclusively Windows software is just plain stupid.

Not only would it be frustratingly slow, VPC loves to keep the CPU pegged at full usage, draining the battery quickly.

Does VPC work? Does it work well enough for daily use? No.

Hell, I find it frustrating for even occasional use.

Now, to the original poster: in the PC world, what you ask is a tall order. You can have it small and light, but you won't get the features you want. It'll also be expensive.

Does your wife really need gigabit ethernet? Highly unlikely. Most PCs that size do not have internal optical drives. Will that really be a problem?

I suggest that you think long and hard at what features she really needs day-to-day, and then choose a model that fits those needs well, rather than one that tries to pack everything in. (Again, we Mac users are spoiled.)

Finally, Sony's laptops are cute, but holy crapola are their AC adapters HUGE! I'm talking the size of six Apple adapters (luckily only about as heavy as three Apple adapters.) Dell and HP's adapters are much larger than Apple's, but nowhere near Sony's.

tooki
     
UnixMac
Mac Elite
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: 33-37-22.350N / 111-54-37.920W
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Dec 11, 2004, 04:15 PM
 
Originally posted by madmacgames:
Apparently you can't read. He said the web software she uses most of the time needs IE windows.

Yeah occasional surfing on Virtual PC is alright, like if you are checking to see what a website looks like, or one website that you use once in a while needs it. But all the time? That'd be a pain in the ass and really suck unless maybe you have a G5 or something that could emulate it as a decent PC.
While I agree with you, I think you need to work on being more polite. To state that a man can't read is basically an insult and has no place in a civil place like this.
Mac Pro 3.0, ATI 5770 1GB VRAM, 10GB, 2xVelociraptor boot RAID, 4.5TB RAID0 storage, 30" & 20" Apple displays.
2 x Macbook Pro's 17" 3.06 4 GB RAM, 256GB Solid State drives
iMac 17" Core Duo 1GB RAM, & 2 iPhones 8GB, and a Nano in a pear tree!
Apple user since 1981
     
SEkker
Grizzled Veteran
Join Date: May 2003
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Dec 11, 2004, 05:24 PM
 
Latest Zones catalog has some nice comparisons of windows laptops.

The smaller models -- which have weight listed -- are have ~1.6 GHz processors.

The larger, and usually cheaper (performance/price), models do not have weight listed.

My comments concerning power adapters was for not for me, but for those considering the most comparable, windows-based, factors like the size of the power brick should also be considered.

Looking at the Zones catalog, I was struck by how competitive the Apple offerings were (at least looking at list prices) when comparing machines with the same features.
     
h00ligan
Forum Regular
Join Date: Jul 2003
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Dec 11, 2004, 08:11 PM
 
the s260 is probably the best of the replacements for a 12" pb. i debated this long and hard before buying my 260 to replace my 12" if this machine ran os x, it would be perfect
-= H00ligan =-

1.33 GHz 12" | 60 gig 7200 rpm drive | 1.25 Gigs of ram
amd 64 3000+ eMachines m6805 (arima lappy) | 60 gig | 512 megs | almost 3400 3dMark03 and it was only $1250 :)
     
wuzup101
Grizzled Veteran
Join Date: Feb 2003
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Dec 11, 2004, 11:34 PM
 
I'd have to recomend either a sony TR3AP1 series or a Fugitsu S6231. The sony is more portable and perhaps a bit nicer to the eyes; however, it's more of a sub notebook. It weighs in at under 4lbs with an optical drive (DVD/CD-RW) and uses a 1.0ghz pentium-M low voltage. Battery life is upwards of 6 hours in practice (there's a guy sitting across from me at the library who is using one... i just asked). Also the xbrite screan on the sony is very high resolution so you have a lot of workable area (about the same res as on my 15" powerbook) and it's amazingly sharp and bright. Both machines come with 512mb of ram and 40gb hard drives. They both have usb2.0, firewire, 10/100 ethernet, etc... The Fugitsu would be my choice w/ it's 13.3" TFT, 1.6ghz pentium-m, DVD/CD-RW drive, and 4.07lb weight. Currently you can buy the sony for $1,636 at newegg... while the Fugitsu will only set you back $1400 after a $100 instant rebate... also at newegg. You can also currently get a suped up version of the same Fugitsu w/ a DVD burner (super multi DVD drive) 1.7ghz pentium-m (both fugis use "dothan" cores btw... 2mb L2 cache). And some extra stuff (bigger HDD and such). The suped up model will set you back $1,749 after instant rebate at newegg. Also all models mentioned above do have a PCIMA card slot... and the fugis have MS/SD card readers built in... also the option to remove the optical bay and replace with a weight saver...
Mac: 15" 1.5ghz PB w/ 128mb vid, 5400rpm 80gb, combo drive, 2gb ram
Peripherals: 20gb 4g iPod, Canon i950, Canon S230 "elph", Canon LIDE30, Logitech MX510, Logitech z5500, M-Audio Sonica Theater, Samsung 191T
PC: AMD "barton" XP @ 2.3ghz, 1gb pc3200, 9800pro 128mb, 120gb WD-SE 120gb
Xbox: 1.6, modded with X3 xecuter, slayers evoX 2.6, WDSE 120gb HDD
     
   
Thread Tools
 
Forum Links
Forum Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Top
Privacy Policy
All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:24 PM.
All contents of these forums © 1995-2017 MacNN. All rights reserved.
Branding + Design: www.gesamtbild.com
vBulletin v.3.8.8 © 2000-2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.,