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Best Speakers, Amp, Pre-amp, Turntable, phono cart? (Page 2)
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zigzag
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Jul 7, 2005, 07:54 PM
 
Originally Posted by Y3a
Sorry Zigzag.

I DO understand the terms. I got my AES certification in 1977. I used to MAKE tonearms and modify headshells for folks in the DC area. I was the turntable technician for "Needle in a Haystack" and later Meyer-EMCO, both reputable audio dealers. I also worked for Audio Perceptions where I set up the on air studios for a few radio stations, and a few DJ booths in the Disco era.

Do you actually have anything constructive to offer, or do we just have to suffer your 'tude'??
Fair enough - I reread your posts and still see "excessive buzzwords instead of explanations" and some of what I consider to be audiophile mythology. Why, in fact, do you think blind testing is a mere "gimmick"? Are tone controls illegitimate per se? Are we obligated to accept everything you say at face value?

I happen to agree with you about the importance of speaker placement and choice - actually, I would say that the room itself is the most important variable after the recording. As for turntables, I have a Linn. I know some people don't like them, but I don't attach that much importance to it - diminishing returns and all that.
( Last edited by zigzag; Jul 7, 2005 at 08:18 PM. )
     
zigzag
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Jul 7, 2005, 08:04 PM
 
Originally Posted by badidea
Oh the irony! Apple, MacNN, HELLOOOOO!!!!
LOL - good one. I don't associate Apple with fraud; fetishism, maybe. But I'm referring to Magical Expensive Interconnects and Green Felt Pens kind of fraud and fetishism, not just looks. Apple users don't put little bits of aluminum foil on the outsides of their hard drives to improve performance, as far as I know.
     
analogika
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Jul 7, 2005, 08:08 PM
 
No, but heavy use of RDF does get borderline esoteric at times.
     
zigzag
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Jul 7, 2005, 08:14 PM
 
Originally Posted by analogika
That is a real problem with being into/enjoying high-end audio:

YES, there is an awful lot of stuff that really does make an appreciable difference in sound, and
YES, there is an awful lot of overpriced and completely superfluous snake-oil.

Add to that the fact that even when people are right in their arguments on the subject, they are often right for the wrong reasons.


Btw, those arguing that this stuff makes no difference are kind of ignoring that a lot of those commercial CDs are mastered using $20,000-speaker systems in studios with completely flattened audio response curves from 20 to 40,000 Hertz for a reason. The listening situation at home is different, of course, but anyone can hear the difference between a well-produced recording and a poor one on most systems. The difference is often just in the equipment used during recording/mixing/mastering. Following that, just imagine what a difference having a decent playback system at home is.

I was instantly convinced when I heard a couple of records on a friend's system that completely blew me away. It really can change one's entire perception of a lot of music, simply 'cuz you can actually hear clearly everything that's going on. Did you know that the Eagles' "Hotel California" is really driven by an extremely funky bassline and a reggae guitar? Never noticed?

I know I hadn't, and I thought I knew the song by heart, down to the last guitar lick.

Incidentally, there's an extra two or three acoustics on the track that you don't really notice otherwise, either.

-ch.
Yes, I agree entirely. I don't mean to say that some systems aren't more revealing or accurate than others; I only mean to say that (a) the audio industry is IMHO a cesspool of fraud and superstition, and (b) some of what Y3a claims to be audible probably isn't, and it's therefore inappropriate IMO for him to assume that anyone who doesn't hear what he claims to hear is a tin ear, and (c) if a given person enjoys listening to music on a transistor radio, they have no reason to apologize for it.
     
analogika
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Jul 7, 2005, 08:23 PM
 


I ended up investing into a system that I was really happy with some eight or so years ago (LP12/Ittok II/Magik-I/Index) and have pretty much completely ignored the "high-end" market since then - except for a cartridge replacement back when the K9 went out of production (running on Adikt now), and possibly the Lingo kit and a pair of Keilidh at some point in the future.

The studio, of course, is a different matter...

-ch.
     
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Jul 7, 2005, 09:56 PM
 
As a student studying electrical engineering, I find that the persons personal preferences plays a ton in the equation. If some one is happy with crap then they are happy, if some one is happy with expensive stuff then they are happy.

I have to draw a line. Read the first few chapters of Randy Slones "High-Power Audio Amplifier Construction Manual" he talks about Subjectivism and how it plays a roll in how we perceive the sound.

I think of it as a hobby. if I build it, it plays sound decently, I am happy, not only is it the process of building but its also enjoying the product afterwards. Could I have gotten something that was "better" probably, but it isn't truly mine.

as for hardware, i just have a Crown DC 300A II, Crown IC 150, an Onkyo receiver, a pair of cheapo cambridge sound works book shelf speakers, a pair of Pi Studio Monitors, and an Adire LLC.

I am in the midths of working on a pair of 2 way actively crossed monitors, driven by a few National 3886 chips with Burl Brown op amp in a 24 db/oct cross over.

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zigzag
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Jul 7, 2005, 10:08 PM
 
Originally Posted by G4ME
As a student studying electrical engineering, I find that the persons personal preferences plays a ton in the equation.
Yes.

By the way, I never meant to discourage anyone from talking about their equipment - that's fun. It's only when people start making broad claims that I don't feel are supportable - or accuse others of having tin ears - that I feel compelled to interject. But I'll shut my hole now.
     
loki74
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Jul 7, 2005, 10:36 PM
 
I think its funny when people who just listen to music talk about others having "tin ears." Its musicians who have the perspective to make such a claim, not equipment afficianados. (spelling)

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Jul 8, 2005, 02:30 AM
 
u know though there is a difference in sound. even frmo cd -> md versus cd -> mp3 using the same pair of earphones i *seem to hear more detail* on the atrac3/md compression. somebody mentioned the hotel california track. i thought i knew it by heart as well, i bought the dvd recently and played in my parents' home theater yamaha setup, i heard guitars and melodies i never heard before from the soundtrack. (plus if i buy some better rear surround speakers i bet i could hear more)
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badidea
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Jul 8, 2005, 03:33 AM
 
Originally Posted by analogika
I ended up investing into a system that I was really happy with some eight or so years ago (LP12/Ittok II/Magik-I/Index)....
I am not a high-end-pro, so let me get this right...

LP12 = Linn LP12?
Ittok II = pick-up?
Magik-I = amp?
Index = bookshelf speakers?

all Linn?
Nice!!!!

I recently watched 3 Nexus auctions on ebay and they all sold around €220.-...not too bad but I didn't buy them yet as surround speakers because I wasn't sure if they're not a little bit too large for what I really want (I still use JBL Control 1G because they look good and are small enough to be hidden)...
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analogika
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Jul 8, 2005, 04:13 AM
 
Originally Posted by badidea
I am not a high-end-pro, so let me get this right...

LP12 = Linn LP12?
Ittok II = pick-up?
Magik-I = amp?
Index = bookshelf speakers?

all Linn?
Nice!!!!

I recently watched 3 Nexus auctions on ebay and they all sold around €220.-...not too bad but I didn't buy them yet as surround speakers because I wasn't sure if they're not a little bit too large for what I really want (I still use JBL Control 1G because they look good and are small enough to be hidden)...
The Nexus are predecessors to the keilidh, IIRC, and they're a little more bass-heavy (GREAT disco/dance music speakers). I got DM 1000 for them back in the day (with Ku-Stone stands).

Ittok II is an old tonearm. My current pick-up (in need of replacement after four years) is the Adikt.

Yes. All Linn.
     
analogika
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Jul 8, 2005, 04:24 AM
 
Originally Posted by loki74
I think its funny when people who just listen to music talk about others having "tin ears." Its musicians who have the perspective to make such a claim, not equipment afficianados. (spelling)
a) WHY?
b) I think, if you're going to make absurd generalizations about certain professions being permitted to judge sound quality, that sound engineers (Y3a is one) probably would qualify.
c) My mom, who had NO musical training, nor "hi-fi" background at all, was instantly able to tell the difference in sound quality between certain records on my system. Did she have the perspective to claim that others who didn't hear the difference had "tin ears"?
d) A lot of musicians *are* equipment aficionados, and vice versa.
e) Am I just misunderstanding you?
     
Goldfinger
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Jul 8, 2005, 05:39 AM
 
Originally Posted by loki74
I think its funny when people who just listen to music talk about others having "tin ears." Its musicians who have the perspective to make such a claim, not equipment afficianados. (spelling)
I know a lot of serious musiscians and music teachers at the conservatory who can't hear the difference between a good or a bad audio system because they are too much used to the real thing. A lot of musiscians don't really care.

I used to be an "audiophile" as well but I ditched all my equipent (Quad) and I got a Sony QS system for relatively cheap which sounds more than good enough and gives me all the detail I want/need. I'm thinking about a speaker upgrade tough. I'll have to research that again since I'm totally out of the know these days about what is good and what is bad. I suspect that Quad electrostatics are still good but I'm not prepared to do such an investment.

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Y3a  (op)
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Jul 8, 2005, 06:58 AM
 
I wanted a Linn-Sondeck turn table, but someone said "I'll sel you this FONS CQ30 for 300 bucks" I said "OK".

The SME arm cost $275.00 and BEcause I had access to LOTS of phono carts I started trying them. The Decca Golds had lots of presence in the midrange, but sounded 'funny' in the bass. The Empires, pickerings, and cheaper Shures tracked badly. The V15 type III was good at tracking but sounded starange. I tried moving coils, starting with a Supex, and then a denon 103, and later a 301d. I tried a koetsu, and really liked the 3600 buck one, but would NEVER pay that much for a cart. I tried a Grace F9e, and I've been using one since. Last year I bought 3 unused stylus off ebay, so I can continue to listen. BTW- does anybody remember the Keith Monks Audio Ltd (KMAL) arm with the 4 pools of mercury instead of wires to keep the drag down and make anti skating more accurate? Anybody own a Transcriptor with Vestigal arm?
I agree that you CAN spend a ton on speakers, but that that doesn't imply great sound, just bigger price.
Bose 901's come to mind......
     
analogika
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Jul 8, 2005, 07:09 AM
 
AAaahhhahahahahah.

You mentioned Bose in a high-end audio thread.



tee-hee.
     
Y3a  (op)
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Jul 8, 2005, 07:12 AM
 
Double blind tests will allow you to hear differences between two loudspekers, but the unused pair will intefere with the bass of the operating pair. It is better to listen to one set for a few weeks and then switch once you are used to them so you are familiar with the 1st pair. Switching from lamp cord to a multistrand set of high quality speaker cables makes a BIG difference too.

My preamp is made from 1 percent parts, hand built by the designer, David Hadaway. His DB Systems preamp has VERY VERY LOW distortion figures. He worked at the National Bureau of Standards and had lots of expensive equipment to test components with. He worked and perfected the design over 11 years. a two foot teat lead has more thermal distortion than his preamp. Mine is .0000724 percent THD. while you can't realy hear below .05 THD with music, the distortion would be higher with more components in the audio path, like tone or EQ.
His RIAA Phono EQ is very accurate ,and the phono input was designed to work best and measure best with a cart attached, not a direct short like most manufacturers use. I have his power amp too. it's rated at 40 RMS/channel with less than .004 percent THD. It's very smooth and tube like in it's sound. Makes a single pair of KEF 104's sound great with classical or jazz, or just about all types that I listen too.

THE bad part of having an accurate sound system is that you hear all the flaws and edits. double edged sword.
     
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Jul 8, 2005, 07:20 AM
 
I once heard B&W Signature 800's on Mark Levinson Mono-blocks.... with what I think was a Diana Krall live recording, my my...

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analogika
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Jul 8, 2005, 07:25 AM
 
Originally Posted by Y3a
THE bad part of having an accurate sound system is that you hear all the flaws and edits. double edged sword.
So true.

On the other hand, good recordings get so much better that they more than make up for the loss.

I can live without the second Jamiroquai album or Roberta Flack (both of which, on a decent turntable, turn out to be so amazingly untight that it's funny) since my appreciation for so much other stuff has just gone through the roof.

You know you've got a decent system when you can tell crap in its misguided glory.

-ch.
     
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Jul 8, 2005, 08:00 AM
 
Originally Posted by analogika
AAaahhhahahahahah.

You mentioned Bose in a high-end audio thread.



tee-hee.
     
Goldfinger
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Jul 8, 2005, 08:06 AM
 
A bit off topic but concerning "flaws in recordings": can anybody tell me why you have these occasional "pops" in AAC or MP3 rips ?

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Y3a  (op)
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Jul 8, 2005, 09:23 AM
 
<< You mentioned Bose in a high-end audio thread.>>

Only as humor. Bose says that they are the best by their measurements, but nobody else can measure it correctly. Boy it that hogwash! (IMHO) a gituar or violin produces more sound from the front than the back, yet Bose 901's have more speakers pointing at the walls than they do pointing directly at the audience. The Bose 800's pointed AT the audience with all 8 speakers. whats up with that? You also have to use an equalizer between the source and amp to fix the response problems with the basic box. I did like the old 301's as cute lil office speakers.

OK so what music tracks do you use to evaluate your system? I use the heartbeat from Dark Side of the Moon, and some Sheffield Direct to disk LP's(Tower of Power and L.Mayorga-vol 2 version 1&3), and Bainbridge's "Sounds of Steam Railroading" - cut 14. This give's me an overall listen to brass, drums, electronic(heartbeat-of which you should hear 4-one right after the other per beat) and deep bass with the rumble of a loco slipping and hearing the wind thru the spoked wheels and the sound of the roller bearings on the side rods as it slips right in front of the mics (Crown PZM's). LAtely I've also used Impulse-Wall of Pressure, which I first heard on SOMA-FM's "Secret Agent" Electronica Stream from iTunes.
     
badidea
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Jul 8, 2005, 09:35 AM
 
Originally Posted by analogika
Ittok II is an old tonearm. My current pick-up (in need of replacement after four years) is the Adikt.
I thought 'pick-up' is just another word for tonearm?
Ah well, what do I know about record players - I only have an old AKAI that my father didn't use anymore (connected with a phono pre-amp to my H/K digital reciever)...
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Y3a  (op)
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Jul 8, 2005, 09:39 AM
 
Pick-up is another word for phono cartridge.
     
zigzag
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Jul 8, 2005, 09:54 AM
 
Originally Posted by Y3a
Double blind tests will allow you to hear differences between two loudspekers, but the unused pair will intefere with the bass of the operating pair. It is better to listen to one set for a few weeks and then switch once you are used to them so you are familiar with the 1st pair. Switching from lamp cord to a multistrand set of high quality speaker cables makes a BIG difference too.
OK, you're talking about blind testing of speakers - when I questioned you, I assumed you were talking about blind testing in general. Where speakers are concerned, I wouldn't rely on blind tests - I wouldn't see much point, since I agree that they're probably the biggest variable in the equipment chain, usually easily distinguishable, and often a matter of taste. Where similar electronic components are concerned, however, I think blind testing is generally valid.

. . . while you can't realy hear below .05 THD with music . . .
Yes, that's one of the points I would've made. Talking about distortion levels in modern electronic components is largely moot, because they're so low. That's one reason I have a 'tude about audiophile "best amp" debates - I'm extremely skeptical of the idea that there's a meaningful audible difference between one or another of the same type, assuming matched gain levels. I used to think so, when I still read audio magazines that were trying to sell them. When I read them now, I laugh at the absurd personality traits they attribute to amps and stuff. But they have to stay in business, so each new amp or cable is a "revelation." It's like reading the skin cream ads in a fashion magazine.

It's very smooth and tube like in it's sound. Makes a single pair of KEF 104's sound great with classical or jazz, or just about all types that I listen too.

THE bad part of having an accurate sound system is that you hear all the flaws and edits. double edged sword.
Which takes us back to the subjectivity angle, i.e. do you want "accurate/revealing" or do you want "musical." I have no argument with either, or anything in between, it just illustrates my point that to a large degree we're tilting at windmills when we talk about marginal differences in audio equipment. After a point, it's essentially arbitrary - a matter of personal preference, not performance (e.g. solid state amps that sound like tubes, tubes that sound like solid state - it never ends). Even then, I don't think some of what audiophiles claim to hear is actually audible, but if they enjoy it, good for them.
     
Y3a  (op)
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Jul 8, 2005, 10:52 AM
 
I would lean towards accurate because the equipment would still be accurate with the source. Musical implies weakness when doing sound clips/effects or even some forms of electronic music. I agree that after a point it's all pointless.

I use JBL 4311's for my Mac along with the DB Power amp, and 2 pairs of the KEF 104's for the widescreen and "Main Hi-fi" along with the Crown PSA-2. I will sometimes use a recently tweeked Crown IC150a Preamp too. I still use a Cassette deck for car tapes, and I still don't have a good CD player. I use the Sony DVD player for that. I've borrowed and listened to a bunch, but I'm not excited about any of them.

BTW- I was a hybrid, doing sound engineering as apposed to selling audiophile equipment. I fixed some, installed lots, and hated the typical sales dweeb who couldn't explain Dolby, or DBX, or elliptical vs Sperical or who actually knew the difference between A, AB, B or cascade amp designs. I guess I would say I have good ears instead of being a typical audiophile who bought and traded eqpt right n left to hear everything made.

TURNTABLE STUFF:
I made a special headshell that had variable vertical angle adjustment possible. Some carts benefitted from a 5-8 degree increase!!! So much for 5 degrees as standard.

Zero tracking turntables like the B&O, and others I can't remember as well as the Garrard Zero-100 sounded better, but couldn't use really delicate carts.
     
badidea
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Jul 8, 2005, 11:14 AM
 
Since this is now officially an audiophile thread I have a few questions someone can maybe answer me:

Does anyone here use power filter frame connectors (you know, those expensive ones) and do you really hear a difference?

Did anyone here make sure that your power cord is connected with the right orientation (I read in a hi-fi mag that this is very important)? Why is that so (I know it sounds crazy - especially with AC)?

Why should I buy an expensive high-end CD player when I connect it digitally to my amp? It's only 1s and 0s!?!

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Jul 8, 2005, 11:36 AM
 
Originally Posted by badidea
Did anyone here make sure that your power cord is connected with the right orientation (I read in a hi-fi mag that this is very important)? Why is that so (I know it sounds crazy - especially with AC)?
I think you answered your own question here.

Why should I buy an expensive high-end CD player when I connect it digitally to my amp? It's only 1s and 0s!?!

One can argue that the "transport" of one cd player is better than the other, the smoothness of tracking etc. But really, if you are using a digital output it can't mean too much of a difference.

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suvsr4terrorists
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Jul 8, 2005, 11:38 AM
 
What makes me really laugh are the digital cables. Some of them apparently 'sound warmer' than other digital cables. What a joke.

Anyway, since it's quite clear that there are a few audiophiles here, I have a question:

How often do you clean your ears? I don't mean just swab them out, I mean the injecting the warm water into your ear itself to remove all the little chunks. Would you be interested in a product that contained teflon that you'd wipe on your outter ear and ear hole to improve sound reception?
     
Goldfinger
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Jul 8, 2005, 11:47 AM
 
Originally Posted by suvsr4terrorists
What makes me really laugh are the digital cables. Some of them apparently 'sound warmer' than other digital cables. What a joke.
ow, come on ! You know as well as I do that my Monster optical cable sounds waaaay better and contains more detail than your standard optical cable that was delivered along with your cd player !

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Jul 8, 2005, 12:13 PM
 
I will agree there. I've never been a cabling fanatic. Yeah, I've got some Transparent Reference XL speaker cables, but they came with the Wilsons when I bought them used. The rest of my cabling is homemade, using stuff I can buy from the local electronics supply house. Just a hobby.

As for digital cabling, as long as it has good locking connectors, and carries a signal, it's good enough for me.
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Y3a  (op)
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Jul 8, 2005, 12:32 PM
 
Have you ever read that it takes about 6 days for a specific electron to get 10 feet down an audio cable? It's probably more detailed than that..
     
SimpleLife
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Jul 8, 2005, 12:45 PM
 
Personally, I use a combo Quad 77 amp and CD player with Totem Model 1 on the Target stands (unfilled). I bought the whole thing 10 years ago, witht he monstrous remote.



There was a point where I thougth I should invest more and more on this setup to really get the best I could get.

But the more I tried the various offered equipment, the more in awe I was, or disappointed because set ups change and the music changes too. There is a point where we listen to the equipment's performance, and the music is secondary.

Once I understood that, I packed the whole system for 5 years and decided to live with my powerbook, a ghetto blaster and a pair of GRADO 60.

Once in a while, I would unpack the system and appreciate it for whatr it gave me.

Today, it is unpacked but I use the superdrive of my PB12 as a source, as it is more detailed than the $2000 CD player I bought (the Quad 77CD).

I am happy.
     
suvsr4terrorists
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Jul 8, 2005, 01:07 PM
 
Originally Posted by Y3a
Have you ever read that it takes about 6 days for a specific electron to get 10 feet down an audio cable? It's probably more detailed than that..
AhAhHA. Dude.

A wire is like a pipe, FILLED with tennis balls. If you put one tennis ball in one end, one tennis ball falls out the other end. It doesn't matter where the electron goes, it's a freaking electron. They're everywhere.
     
Y3a  (op)
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Jul 8, 2005, 01:45 PM
 
YES! But you shove 1 electron in one end and a different one comes out the other right?
So how long does it take the electron you put in to come out the other??
They move thru displacement right?
     
Shaddim
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Jul 8, 2005, 01:46 PM
 
Originally Posted by Y3a
Have you ever read that it takes about 6 days for a specific electron to get 10 feet down an audio cable? It's probably more detailed than that..
Even if that's true, it wouldn't effect sound on a digital connection.

If the data gets to the right place, it sounds the way it's supposed to. If it doesn't, you get a drop-out or a "pop". To sum up, it either works 100% or it doesn't work at all, there's no in-between or variance in quality.

Now, I don't take that view with analog cables. Some of the highend cables use special adjustable circuits to change phasing, delay, etc.. (that's the box in the middle of the cable). They can alter sound, but whether it's better or not is subjective.
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Jul 8, 2005, 02:39 PM
 
Originally Posted by MacNStein
Now, I don't take that view with analog cables. Some of the highend cables use special adjustable circuits to change phasing, delay, etc.. (that's the box in the middle of the cable). They can alter sound, but whether it's better or not is subjective.
Did I already mention that I love my LS cables? They made a huge difference to the old 'standard' ones I had!!
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suvsr4terrorists
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Jul 8, 2005, 02:47 PM
 
Originally Posted by suvsr4terrorists
Anyway, since it's quite clear that there are a few audiophiles here, I have a question:

How often do you clean your ears? I don't mean just swab them out, I mean the injecting the warm water into your ear itself to remove all the little chunks. Would you be interested in a product that contained teflon that you'd wipe on your outter ear and ear hole to improve sound reception?
Again, I'd like this answered.
     
ReggieX
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Jul 8, 2005, 02:49 PM
 
I heard that the increased electron carrier density on gold-plated interconnects can actually increase THD by up to 0.015% per metre.
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Shaddim
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Jul 8, 2005, 02:57 PM
 
Originally Posted by suvsr4terrorists
Again, I'd like this answered.
Professionally during every physical, once /year. I also irrigate and clean them myself about once a week.
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Jul 8, 2005, 03:02 PM
 

"Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh"
     
badidea
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Jul 8, 2005, 03:08 PM
 
Originally Posted by suvsr4terrorists
Again, I'd like this answered.
I use this every second day.
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suvsr4terrorists
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Jul 8, 2005, 03:13 PM
 
Originally Posted by badidea
I use this every second day.
But that doesn't clean your inner ear. IF you're going to spend money on wire that work .0001% better, don't you think it'd be worth it to have your ears professionaly cleaned every time you're going to listen to music?
     
badidea
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Jul 8, 2005, 03:33 PM
 
Originally Posted by suvsr4terrorists
But that doesn't clean your inner ear. IF you're going to spend money on wire that work .0001% better, don't you think it'd be worth it to have your ears professionaly cleaned every time you're going to listen to music?
If I would have spent my money on wire that only works .0001% better (than what??) then you would probably be right! But since I could clearly hear the difference between my old €5/m LS cables and the €50/m cables I wouldn't say that the difference was only .0001%!
I don't think I can hear a .0001% difference!
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Y3a  (op)
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Jul 8, 2005, 04:15 PM
 
I do the liquid drops that disolve ear wax.. I do it 2-3 times a year. It DOES make a diff.!
     
Y3a  (op)
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Jul 8, 2005, 04:24 PM
 
Those morons with the giant booming woofers in the trunk would have saved themselves the bucks if they used Qtips before they bought the car systems.
     
suvsr4terrorists
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Jul 8, 2005, 04:33 PM
 
Would you guys support a quasi-cosmetic surgery that enlarged your ears and faced them forward for superior listening?
     
Link
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Jul 8, 2005, 05:01 PM
 
Originally Posted by Y3a
YES! But you shove 1 electron in one end and a different one comes out the other right?
So how long does it take the electron you put in to come out the other??
They move thru displacement right?
It doesn't matter, what matters when moving electricity is how fast your charge is moving.

http://www.amasci.com/miscon/speed.html

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Jul 8, 2005, 05:05 PM
 
Originally Posted by suvsr4terrorists
Would you guys support a quasi-cosmetic surgery that enlarged your ears and faced them forward for superior listening?
I need to think about that a while.
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suvsr4terrorists
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Jul 8, 2005, 05:14 PM
 
Originally Posted by Y3a
YES! But you shove 1 electron in one end and a different one comes out the other right?
So how long does it take the electron you put in to come out the other??
They move thru displacement right?
Yes, you're right. How long? Who CARES?!?!?!

An electron is an electron is an electron. Jesus. I find it rather amusing that you NEVER EVER see an audiophile who has a degree in electrical engineering.

One of my friends USED to be an audiophile until he went to college and got educated.
     
badidea
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Jul 8, 2005, 05:35 PM
 
Originally Posted by suvsr4terrorists
An electron is an electron is an electron.
I have another one that you can laugh about (justified I think):

You can buy cinch cables with a direction!
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