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Best Speakers, Amp, Pre-amp, Turntable, phono cart? (Page 3)
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zigzag
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Jul 8, 2005, 08:15 PM
 
Originally Posted by Y3a
Have you ever read that it takes about 6 days for a specific electron to get 10 feet down an audio cable? It's probably more detailed than that..
No, but I've read that they spend a good deal of their time talking about failed relationships. Perhaps there's a connection?
     
analogika
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Jul 8, 2005, 08:21 PM
 
Originally Posted by suvsr4terrorists
What makes me really laugh are the digital cables. Some of them apparently 'sound warmer' than other digital cables. What a joke.
Actually, any audio audio engineer somewhat experienced in matters digital can tell you that there IS a difference between digital audio cables. Sounding "warmer" may be bull.

But any cable used for SPDIF that's less than 0.5 meters WILL introduce additional jitter into the signal (due to reflections from the receiving end) that will mess up clock sync and deteriorate audio quality - yes, even in the digital realm. In a digital signal, it is absolutely vital that all clocks operate exactly synchronously. The receiving end of a digital signal will usually generate clock out of the signal that comes down the cable, and if the clock is messed up through excessive jitter, the signal WILL be damaged.

This ain't voodoo, it's simple fact.

And to the guy who brought up subwoofers in cars: "Hi-end" and "car-hifi" are two diametrically opposed concepts.

there is no such thing as an "audiophile" car stereo system.
     
analogika
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Jul 8, 2005, 08:23 PM
 
Another thing: YOU, PERSONALLY may not hear (or even believe in) a difference.

But there are plenty of people (audio engineers) who make their living off providing excellence in audio quality and DO know what they're talking about.

That does not change the fact that probably 80% of hi-end consumer marketing is complete and utter hogwash.
     
suvsr4terrorists
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Jul 8, 2005, 10:51 PM
 
Originally Posted by analogika
But any cable used for SPDIF that's less than 0.5 meters WILL introduce additional jitter into the signal (due to reflections from the receiving end) that will mess up clock sync and deteriorate audio quality - yes, even in the digital realm. In a digital signal, it is absolutely vital that all clocks operate exactly synchronously. The receiving end of a digital signal will usually generate clock out of the signal that comes down the cable, and if the clock is messed up through excessive jitter, the signal WILL be damaged.

This ain't voodoo, it's simple fact.
     
analogika
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Jul 9, 2005, 05:03 AM
 
Originally Posted by suvsr4terrorists
Ignorant twit.

(with apologies to Barry):
From: Barry Diament <deleted>
Subject: [MobileIO] Re: AES cables
To: deleted
Message-ID: <deleted>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed

Regarding the use of XLR terminated microphone cables for AES digital
signal transmission, the engineer rmoore works with said:
"...the lengths are very short so it doesn;t make that much diff
(?!)..."

Mr. Moore then said:
"...Obviously its not a top flight mega mastering house...".
This is an understatement. To put it gently, the "engineer" was
talking through his hat.
(Ownership of the gear doth not a mastering engineer make.)

The best sounding (and measuring) digital transmission links will not
be the shortest. SPDIF on RCA connectors requires 75 ohms. AES on XLR
connectors requires 110 ohms. Both of these are difficult to achieve
when the cable gets shorter than about 1 meter. At the shorter
lengths, reflections between the connectors will increase jitter. Some
of the cable manufacturers realize this and have discontinued making
digital cables in the 1/2 meter length.

Barry
Sorry, I was wrong - minimum length is one meter for AES cables.

And before you open your hole, Rob, do yourself a favor and google Barry's name - (and take a look at one of your Bob Marley CDs, if you own one).
     
Link
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Jul 9, 2005, 07:04 AM
 
Originally Posted by analogika
But any cable used for SPDIF that's less than 0.5 meters WILL introduce additional jitter into the signal (due to reflections from the receiving end) that will mess up clock sync and deteriorate audio quality - yes, even in the digital realm. In a digital signal, it is absolutely vital that rant rant rant, haggle haggle haggle
This ain't voodoo, it's simple fact.
Dude before you go on that witch hunt, you just shoved a whole paragraph of words into Cash's mouth

And to the guy who brought up subwoofers in cars: "Hi-end" and "car-hifi" are two diametrically opposed concepts.

there is no such thing as an "audiophile" car stereo system.
Heavens no, there's only 2 kinds of audio systems in cars...
1. The kind that you can hear and listen to music on
2. The kind that sound pretty nice...

Remember, the car is not a place to be an audiophile -- no the car is a place to concentrate on your driving! Worrying about the accoustics of your interior and the "sound stage" and all that crap isn't really important, sure it's nice to have some tunes but geez.. yeah lol, I think I can agree with you on this one Audiophile sound systems..... lol
Aloha
     
analogika
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Jul 9, 2005, 07:09 AM
 
Originally Posted by Link
Dude before you go on that witch hunt, you just shoved a whole paragraph of words into Cash's mouth
what?

     
analogika
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Jul 9, 2005, 07:16 AM
 
Originally Posted by MacNStein
If the data gets to the right place, it sounds the way it's supposed to. If it doesn't, you get a drop-out or a "pop". To sum up, it either works 100% or it doesn't work at all, there's no in-between or variance in quality.
Not true, since just getting data to the right place is only a small part of digital audio. It is vastly more important that it get there at exactly the right time.

Jitter messes up that timing.

(see my posts above)
     
Sherwin
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Jul 9, 2005, 07:19 AM
 
In a rare moment of strangeness, I'm forced to agree with Spheric. Because he's absolutely right.
     
Y3a  (op)
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Jul 9, 2005, 07:19 AM
 
<< Quote:
And to the guy who brought up subwoofers in cars: "Hi-end" and "car-hifi" are two diametrically opposed concepts.

there is no such thing as an "audiophile" car stereo system.
>>

Yes, It was brought up when we were discussing earwax. NOT AUDIOPHILE SYSTEMS as you can't do that in a car due to phase problems, listening area/shape issues, and the fact that the car stuff just sounds lousy.
     
analogika
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Jul 9, 2005, 07:23 AM
 
Originally Posted by badidea
Since this is now officially an audiophile thread I have a few questions someone can maybe answer me:

Does anyone here use power filter frame connectors (you know, those expensive ones) and do you really hear a difference?

Did anyone here make sure that your power cord is connected with the right orientation (I read in a hi-fi mag that this is very important)? Why is that so (I know it sounds crazy - especially with AC)?
Yes. This can be absolutely vital in a studio setting, and definitely makes an audible difference on a lot of (if not all) the more decent stereo equipment.

I'm not too versed in the physics of that, but apparently, most power supplies do not work equally well "both ways".

With a lot of analog equipment (such as my Hammond organs), simply turning around the plug in the socket will sometimes influence hum or noise floor. In fact, when ground loops have been ruled out as a possible source of noise, turning around the plug is often the first troubleshooting suggestion.
     
analogika
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Jul 9, 2005, 07:35 AM
 
Originally Posted by Goldfinger
I think you answered your own question here.


One can argue that the "transport" of one cd player is better than the other, the smoothness of tracking etc. But really, if you are using a digital output it can't mean too much of a difference.
Ever wonder why your audio CDs aren't verified after they're burned?

With audio CDs, read errors on playback are ASSUMED. Any time you hear or rip CD audio, a certain percentage of what you hear is actually just "faked" by the error "correction" (actually just interpolation) of your CD player. A better drive/tracking mechanism *will* reduce the number of read errors and, depending on the design/buffering circuitry of the drive, also reduce jitter. Better error interpolation algorithms will also influence sound, of course.

Whether all of that can mean "too much of a difference" is, of course, a question of personal listening habits.
     
analogika
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Jul 9, 2005, 07:38 AM
 
Originally Posted by Sherwin
In a rare moment of strangeness, I'm forced to agree with Spheric. Because he's absolutely right.
That's gotta hurt.




     
Sherwin
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Jul 9, 2005, 07:42 AM
 
Originally Posted by analogika
That's gotta hurt.
Actually, I'm seeing it more like you agreeing with me, rather than the other way around.
     
analogika
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Jul 9, 2005, 08:49 AM
 
Might want to re-work your phrasing then.
     
suvsr4terrorists
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Jul 9, 2005, 01:55 PM
 
Well Spheric, it turns out your right. The gamma phase of the electrons discharge just happen to be extrapolated, and sometimes they even coincide with a relaxed laid back presentation of hte soundstage if the cabling uses coaxially braided cryogenically treated continously cast silver, bringing up the jitter reduction to only .05% depending on the quality of the air, teflon and unbleached teflon dialetrics, when coupled with the electrostatics, but with microdynamics that will have you reaching for the repeat button.

It's not voodoo, it's simple fact.

     
Y3a  (op)
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Jul 10, 2005, 07:03 AM
 
But, Doesn't it depend on the color/wavelength of the laser?
     
skalie
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Jul 10, 2005, 07:32 AM
 
These speakers cables are meant to be quite good, but they're about $14,000 US$ a pair.
     
analogika
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Jul 10, 2005, 07:42 AM
 
Originally Posted by suvsr4terrorists
Well Spheric, it turns out your right. The gamma phase of the electrons discharge just happen to be extrapolated, and sometimes they even coincide with a relaxed laid back presentation of hte soundstage if the cabling uses coaxially braided cryogenically treated continously cast silver, bringing up the jitter reduction to only .05% depending on the quality of the air, teflon and unbleached teflon dialetrics, when coupled with the electrostatics, but with microdynamics that will have you reaching for the repeat button.

It's not voodoo, it's simple fact.

You really are one dumbass ****er, Rob.

If you don't understand it or are too numb to perceive it, it can't exist.

I take it you *didn't* google Barry Diament, then? Or take a look at your Led Zep CDs? Or Bob Marley CDs? Or the old Brain Salad Surgery ELP album? Or any of hundreds of major releases that would go through the hands - and ears - of one of the world's foremost digital mastering engineers?

     
zigzag
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Jul 10, 2005, 08:29 AM
 
Originally Posted by skalie
These speakers cables are meant to be quite good, but they're about $14,000 US$ a pair.
I read that ad, and the referenced "White Paper," and the latest review from Absolute Sound, and I'm more appalled than ever at the state of the high end audio industry and supposedly independent audio press. It is, truly, like reading the skin cream ads in a fashion magazine. Indeed, I'm surprised that they don't also promise that these cables will slim your thighs and make you look ten years younger if you rub them onto your skin every night before "taking your rest," as the marketing people might romantically put it.

What's funny is that, after years of hearing from audiophiles that measurements are irrelevant, Brisson tells us that his cables have a better "Articulation Response," which as far as I can tell is more marketing bull**** devised by audio manufacturers to justify themselves. We're not, of course, treated to any verifiable test results, we can just take their word for it that these cables are worth $5,000 apiece as opposed to, say, $3,482. But they're modular!

Auto manufacturers have always loved to sell Cadillacs instead of Chevies because Cadillacs are only marginally more expensive to make. The rest is gravy. These $5,000 cables probably cost $20 to make, but are supposedly worth 100x more than the $50 cables, and I'd bet anyone here that they couldn't hear the difference under controlled conditions, or even uncontrolled conditions. What's sad is that it's otherwise rational people who buy into this stuff. Talk about believing what you want to believe . . . Appalling.
( Last edited by zigzag; Jul 10, 2005 at 08:54 AM. )
     
suvsr4terrorists
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Jul 10, 2005, 12:41 PM
 
Originally Posted by analogika
I take it you *didn't* google Barry Diament, then? Or take a look at your Led Zep CDs? Or Bob Marley CDs? Or the old Brain Salad Surgery ELP album? Or any of hundreds of major releases that would go through the hands - and ears - of one of the world's foremost digital mastering engineers?
I googled him. Big freakin' deal. He masters CDs. Wow. You know what my favorite Bob Marley tracks are? The ones recorded live with shitty equipment and from an audiophile standpoint, they sound like total crap. But they sound REAL at the same time. Spheric, do me a favor and go to school for electrical engineering, or at least get some EE friends. Talk about your extra limited electron transverse fielded cables with a mutegrab fakie with them. See what they say.

If you don't have to worry about this crap for CIRCUITS, you sure as **** don't need to for audio.
     
suvsr4terrorists
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Jul 10, 2005, 12:42 PM
 
Originally Posted by zigzag
I read that ad, and the referenced "White Paper," and the latest review from Absolute Sound, and I'm more appalled than ever at the state of the high end audio industry and supposedly independent audio press. It is, truly, like reading the skin cream ads in a fashion magazine.
Well then, according to Spheric, you are one dumbass ****er.
     
Y3a  (op)
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Jul 10, 2005, 02:41 PM
 
Therir ARE probably measurements, but they don't show anything, so they are left to market with BS. Either that or they haven't devised a test to CLEARLY DEMONSTRATE how the product is superior.

I can't see over 100 bucks for the speaker cables. 2 ten foot jobs is all I need. I use 4 ten foot pieces of 12 gauge lamp cord per run. Thats 8 pieces of 10 foot 12 gauge lamp cord per side, into banana connectors. All my RCA and S-Video cables have gold plating. Big whooop! after 90+ dB of volume there IS no background noise.

Big deal, mastering a CD. you FIRST have to master the individual cuts. That reqires choosing the right Mic's and other equipment, and having the right listening environment. haveing GOOD EARS helps too.
     
budster101
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Jul 10, 2005, 02:44 PM
 
It's about the music, not the gold plated crap you listen to it on. Waste your money on important things.

- Family
- Friends
- Those that need help, and could be future life friends

This BS thread about nuances beyond human hearing is bordering on insanity, gluttony, and a few other words which I can't quite nail down right now.
     
Y3a  (op)
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Jul 10, 2005, 03:17 PM
 
Some folks DO HEAR BETTER than others. for those who have better than average hearing, and listen to complex music, having a better system allows them to hear ALL the music. Why do you think they put deep bass, and other extremes IN THE MUSIC??

For those who claim it's "JUST" about the music, I guess you don't even need 2 channels?
     
suvsr4terrorists
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Jul 10, 2005, 03:31 PM
 
Originally Posted by Y3a
Some folks DO HEAR BETTER than others. for those who have better than average hearing, and listen to complex music, having a better system allows them to hear ALL the music. Why do you think they put deep bass, and other extremes IN THE MUSIC??
What does that have to do with triple triaxial braided cold rolled silver cables that cost $500?

Nothing. Complex music is one thing. Overpriced overhyped crap that does nothing but make profit for whoever is selling it is another. And someone claimed said overhyped crap actually makes a difference is something else altogether.
     
Y3a  (op)
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Jul 10, 2005, 03:48 PM
 
Have you "HEARD" the cables yet? I thought so..............
     
suvsr4terrorists
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Jul 10, 2005, 03:51 PM
 
You can't hear cables. Ever wonder why there aren't any audiophiles with EE degrees?

Because they've been educated to distinguish what's total ******** and what isn't.
     
budster101
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Jul 10, 2005, 03:59 PM
 
Originally Posted by Y3a
Some folks DO HEAR BETTER than others. for those who have better than average hearing, and listen to complex music, having a better system allows them to hear ALL the music. Why do you think they put deep bass, and other extremes IN THE MUSIC??

For those who claim it's "JUST" about the music, I guess you don't even need 2 channels?

Dude, If you are going to insult me, at least quote me. Got it?

It is just about the music, and if your equipment goes beyond the human hearing spectrum, then you are paying for sh t you can't f cking hear, wh ch makes you a f cking mor n.

"Some hear better than others". So, the crap you are pushing is only for above average hearing people? So 97 percent of the people out there has little need for the equipment you sel, errr believe is the best. The average listener won't notice right? IS THAT WHAT YOU ARE TRYING TO SAY?

In that case, ONLY THE MUSIC MATTERS, not equipment for the top 3 percent of the superhuman people with exceptional hearing...

Humans can hear in the range of 20 Hz to 20,000 Hz.
As for the rest of the range, I'm not interested in it, as is 97 percent of the entire music listening world.

Next you'll be trying to remove the distortion caused by the instruments themselves and the human ear, which also, by the way, creates distortions. So, how can you say what is best? It depends on who is listening, the amount of distortion that is created by the ear itself, and the ambient temperature/humidity in the room at the time.
     
SVass
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Jul 10, 2005, 04:04 PM
 
As an electrical engineer who has designed and built his own analog music equipment, I suggest that the best environment is real music such as: http://www.olympicmusicfestival.org/
Real instruments are analog and digital reproductions recreate pale imitations of live performances. I remember when advertisers said that vacuum tubes were "warmer" than transistors. Anyway, I have both a personally designed vacuum tube stereo (using dc for the filiaments to reduce hum) and an old Heath discrete transistor stereo receiver. They work fairly well in a normal house that is neither an acoustically designed theater nor an SUV without a muffler. If you note above, a barn is sufficient for good music with atmosphere. sam
     
analogika
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Jul 10, 2005, 04:05 PM
 
Originally Posted by suvsr4terrorists
Spheric, do me a favor and go to school for electrical engineering, or at least get some EE friends. Talk about your extra limited electron transverse fielded cables with a mutegrab fakie with them. See what they say.

If you don't have to worry about this crap for CIRCUITS, you sure as **** don't need to for audio.
Listen, KID:

I don't give a flying **** about your "extra limited electron transverse fielded cables". If you'd bother to read what I wrote, I said that 80% of what's sold as "high-end" is complete bull. And probably 90% is what's sold as "high-end" makes no measurable difference. That 10% difference allowing for factors that might actually influence the sound, while being below measurability threshold.

I also HAVE some EE friends. I also have a couple of audio engineering friends.

And I was talking about jitter. As introduced by, among other things, AES/EBU or S/PDIF cable that is too short.

Jitter is real, it is measurable, and it is audible. In fact, it is one of the main specs listed on just about every CD player sold. It is caused by mismatched clock sync, and any audio ENGINEER who has ever delved into digital audio (which differs fundamentally in virtually every respect from analog audio) with more than a single processing stage can tell you that a stable, matched clock is the single most important aspect of dealing with digital audio. (Designing a truly stable digital sampling clock circuit, btw, is EXTREMELY difficult - and expensive - to do.)

When you're working in audio PRODUCTION, minute things like jitter, or very subtle phase-shifting, etc. CAN and DO make an enormous difference. Some of that "high-end" mumbo jumbo, such as extremely phase-accurate signal paths for channels, can mean the difference between a clean signal and inadvertently applying a comb filter to your audio source. There's a lot of things that the "high-end" REproduction "community" lumps in with all that snake-oil that actually DO make a real difference.

I don't fault you for not being able to tell the difference.

But at least don't open your mouth to wide when you're obviously out of your element.

Stick to cars, Rob, seriously.

-ch.
     
suvsr4terrorists
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Jul 10, 2005, 04:15 PM
 
So you're saying that a digital cable that's too short can cause jitter. Fine. I guess I could see that. But I doubt you'd be able to tell the difference between 2 cables of the same length then.
     
Sherwin
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Jul 10, 2005, 04:27 PM
 
Originally Posted by analogika
When you're working in audio PRODUCTION, minute things like jitter, or very subtle phase-shifting, etc. CAN and DO make an enormous difference. Some of that "high-end" mumbo jumbo, such as extremely phase-accurate signal paths for channels, can mean the difference between a clean signal and inadvertently applying a comb filter to your audio source. There's a lot of things that the "high-end" REproduction "community" lumps in with all that snake-oil that actually DO make a real difference.
Spheric... Please stop talking sense... All of this agreeing with you stuff isn't doing my blood pressure any favours.
     
budster101
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Jul 10, 2005, 04:30 PM
 
It's freaking me out too.
     
analogika
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Jul 10, 2005, 06:33 PM
 
Originally Posted by suvsr4terrorists
But I doubt you'd be able to tell the difference between 2 cables of the same length then.
Why the **** would you care if I could?

     
suvsr4terrorists
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Jul 10, 2005, 06:34 PM
 
My point was I saw some magazine claim one digital cable was 'warmer' sounding than another one. The same length, I'm sure. Could that REALLY be? No. It's the same information.
     
analogika
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Jul 10, 2005, 06:54 PM
 
Originally Posted by budster101
It is just about the music, and if your equipment goes beyond the human hearing spectrum, then you are paying for sh t you can't f cking hear, wh ch makes you a f cking mor n.
Actually, research indicates that sound above 20 kHz has a pretty strong influence on brain wave patterns, meaning that it is *definitely* perceived in some way, even if not *consciously* heard. Click here for edumacation.

You can't *hear* a 20 Hz sine wave, either, but some church pipe organs go that low. The effect of those pipes is more a physical one, and can cause emotional discomfort in people. But they're just f cking mor ns, because they're reacting to stuff they can't f cking hear.
Originally Posted by budster101
"Some hear better than others". So, the crap you are pushing is only for above average hearing people? So 97 percent of the people out there has little need for the equipment you sel, errr believe is the best. The average listener won't notice right? IS THAT WHAT YOU ARE TRYING TO SAY?
All your penis envy aside:

If it's produced by people who have above average hearing - which is hopefully the case with most all audio engineers, since discriminate hearing is pretty much the entire basis of their job - it would stand to reason that if it's reproduced on equipment that approaches the quality of that on which it's produced, OTHER people with above average hearing - which is something pretty much ANYBODY with an interest and a mind more open than their asshole can acquire - can achieve a superior listening experience closer to what the engineer and musicians were actually hearing while in the studio during the mixing sessions.

Pink Floyd's "Animals" was a magnificent album back when I listened to it on my Sony Hi-fi tower. But what was already great then absolutely pales, both in terms of sound design AND above all musicianship, in comparison to what I hear when I listen to it on my current system.

In contrast, Jamiroquai's "Space Cowboy" was pretty cool back then, but the funk completely fell apart when my current system exposed the miserable timing and poor musicianship of the band (an inherent problem in overdub recording).


Hey, if you've tried it and didn't gain anything from it: more power to you. Spend your money on other stuff.

If you haven't tried it, please STFU and spend your money on other stuff.

-ch.
     
analogika
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Jul 10, 2005, 07:00 PM
 
Originally Posted by suvsr4terrorists
My point was I saw some magazine claim one digital cable was 'warmer' sounding than another one. The same length, I'm sure. Could that REALLY be? No. It's the same information.
I don't know.

It's quite possible that factors other than length - such as shielding, solder-point quality, or whatever - can influence jitter.

It wouldn't surprise me. Digital audio is frail in ways that sometimes appear to defy common sense, because it follows *completely* different rules than analog audio, which, for the large part at least, *does* follow common sense.

However, if "some magazine" claimed this, it was 80% probably hogwash.

OTOH, if it was, in fact, for different cable lengths, then yes, one of them would sound "warmer", since the jitter would introduce all sorts of weird high-frequency artefacts.

-s*
     
suvsr4terrorists
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Jul 10, 2005, 07:17 PM
 
Well, it's okay. I just put on a 'type R' sticker on all my audio equipment and when the VTEC kicks in at higher volumes it really sounds great.
     
analogika
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Jul 10, 2005, 07:25 PM
 
Originally Posted by suvsr4terrorists
Well, it's okay. I just put on a 'type R' sticker on all my audio equipment and when the VTEC kicks in at higher volumes it really sounds great.
Actually, a huge "KENWOOD" sticker on your windshield will make your car sound better.
     
Railroader
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Jul 10, 2005, 07:30 PM
 
Originally Posted by Sherwin
Spheric... Please stop talking sense... All of this agreeing with you stuff isn't doing my blood pressure any favours.
It's starting to mess with my little mind too. But I am staying out of this argument.
     
budster101
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Jul 10, 2005, 07:39 PM
 
I compliment the jerk- ss and he tells me to STFU.

I wasn't even responding to Sphinctor Harper...
     
analogika
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Jul 10, 2005, 07:43 PM
 
Originally Posted by Sherwin
Spheric... Please stop talking sense... All of this agreeing with you stuff isn't doing my blood pressure any favours.
Well, you can't be wrong on EVERYTHING, I guess. Exciting, isn't it?



     
Y3a  (op)
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Jul 10, 2005, 09:23 PM
 
Slicing and dicing the music and then putting it back together with big holes filled by a circuit has got to sound different than pure analog. In reality, don't you ruin the harmonics an instrument produces?
     
SVass
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Jul 10, 2005, 09:47 PM
 
PS Earlier I suggested that analog stereos reproduce music more faithfully than digital units. One course I took towards my EE degree was in Analog computers. They are faster and more stable than modern digital computers when solving differential equations and far easier to program. http://www.artic.edu/aic/exhibitions..._overview.html is for digital people. sam
     
budster101
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Jul 10, 2005, 11:37 PM
 
     
suvsr4terrorists
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Jul 10, 2005, 11:43 PM
 
Neat. My friend built his own speakers for about $900, and as an ex audiophile, he swears they'll blow away almost any under 3 thousand dollar speaker system. Only downside is they're freakin huge. But man...they sound sooooooooo nice.
     
Y3a  (op)
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Jul 11, 2005, 01:59 PM
 
Boy, the OLD DAYS!!!

Walsh Drivers, ESS Air Motion Transformers, MicroAcoustics External Tweeter arrays, Bose 901's, Phase Linear 700's, SAE, Marantz, Dahlquist, Crown Electrostatic loudspeakers, Double Quad electrostatic "stacks" ,Mark Levinson, Ampzilla, Tiger .01, Dynaco Stereo 400's, Advent Walnut, Smaller Advent, Advent 201, McIntosh 2300's, and Discrete 4 channel phono carts. How about Allison 1's and 2's? Phillips 212's and 312's, and to gag on: the Empire 598 Mk 2 turntable....Peeee Yooo!

Then their were the JBL S8r, Altec Voice of the Theatres or Klipsch Cornerhorns.
     
suvsr4terrorists
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Jul 11, 2005, 02:00 PM
 


heh.
     
Goldfinger
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Jul 11, 2005, 02:26 PM
 
Originally Posted by analogika
I don't know.

It's quite possible that factors other than length - such as shielding, solder-point quality, or whatever - can influence jitter.

It wouldn't surprise me. Digital audio is frail in ways that sometimes appear to defy common sense, because it follows *completely* different rules than analog audio, which, for the large part at least, *does* follow common sense.

However, if "some magazine" claimed this, it was 80% probably hogwash.

OTOH, if it was, in fact, for different cable lengths, then yes, one of them would sound "warmer", since the jitter would introduce all sorts of weird high-frequency artefacts.

-s*
I can't help it, but it sounds really weird to me that digital sound can be altered. Basically the data stream of 1s and 0s goes from the disc through a wire into some sort of decoding chip. Now if there is alien data that enters the stream then the stream gets altered and goes kaput, no ? Like when you open up an application in Text Edit and add some word to the gibberish. The app probably won't work. And if there is indeed alien data that enters the stream it would probably be filtered out by the error correction that is there anyway, no ? I can't imagine that it alters the sound because the error correction gets done anyway.

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