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Best Speakers, Amp, Pre-amp, Turntable, phono cart? (Page 4)
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zigzag
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Jul 11, 2005, 05:34 PM
 
Originally Posted by Y3a
Boy, the OLD DAYS!!!

Walsh Drivers, ESS Air Motion Transformers, MicroAcoustics External Tweeter arrays, Bose 901's, Phase Linear 700's, SAE, Marantz, Dahlquist, Crown Electrostatic loudspeakers, Double Quad electrostatic "stacks" ,Mark Levinson, Ampzilla, Tiger .01, Dynaco Stereo 400's, Advent Walnut, Smaller Advent, Advent 201, McIntosh 2300's, and Discrete 4 channel phono carts. How about Allison 1's and 2's? Phillips 212's and 312's, and to gag on: the Empire 598 Mk 2 turntable....Peeee Yooo!

Then their were the JBL S8r, Altec Voice of the Theatres or Klipsch Cornerhorns.
I had a pair of Advents. My roommate had some as well and we used to stack them, per Harry Pearson's advice (when I still respected Harry Pearson). Fun!

I also had an Advent 201, and an AR turntable. Later I had one of Tom Holman's Advent 300 receivers.
     
analogika
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Jul 11, 2005, 06:18 PM
 
Originally Posted by Goldfinger
I can't help it, but it sounds really weird to me that digital sound can be altered. Basically the data stream of 1s and 0s goes from the disc through a wire into some sort of decoding chip. Now if there is alien data that enters the stream then the stream gets altered and goes kaput, no ? Like when you open up an application in Text Edit and add some word to the gibberish. The app probably won't work. And if there is indeed alien data that enters the stream it would probably be filtered out by the error correction that is there anyway, no ? I can't imagine that it alters the sound because the error correction gets done anyway.
The point isn't the data itself, it's getting it there at precisely the right time that's the most difficult aspect of digital audio. If it's not, digital stages go choppy-chop and your signal's ****ed.
     
SamuraiDL
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Jul 11, 2005, 06:21 PM
 
If its not about best headphones for your ipod, this is the wrong forum for audio questions.
     
analogika
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Jul 11, 2005, 06:26 PM
 
true.
     
Goldfinger
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Jul 11, 2005, 06:29 PM
 
Originally Posted by analogika
The point isn't the data itself, it's getting it there at precisely the right time that's the most difficult aspect of digital audio. If it's not, digital stages go choppy-chop and your signal's ****ed.
OK, but what happens when the timing isn't right ? What happens then ? Sound drop outs ? I would imagine that the CD-player "prefetches" the data, no ? So when something out of order does happen it can try to fetch the data again before sending it to the CD-player's output ? Or is my logic completely whacked ?

iMac 20" C2D 2.16 | Acer Aspire One | Flickr
     
analogika
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Jul 11, 2005, 06:35 PM
 
http://www.optical-disc.com/techpape...omeasureit.pdf

And, from here:
A great deal of money has been made by shrewd marketeers preying on the fears of the consumer worried about jitter. Such products marketed include disc stabilizer rings to reduce rotational variations, highly damped rubber feet for the players, and other snake oil remedies. However, the careful engineer has beaten the marketeer to the punch by having the samples read off the disc into a RAM buffer. As the buffer becomes full, a local crystal oscillator can then "clock-out" the samples in a reliable manner, independent of the transport and reading mechanisms. This process is referred to as timebase correction and as stated before, any quality piece of equipment will implement it.
This solves much of the jitter problematic within a single device; it does not solve problems with real-time digital connections to other devices, as in recording. Additional buffering during recording results in clock differences with other devices, and thus in a whole slew of other problems, such as phase shifting, etc. Avoiding jitter is imperative, there.
( Last edited by analogika; Jul 11, 2005 at 06:48 PM. )
     
suvsr4terrorists
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Jul 11, 2005, 07:26 PM
 
Spheric, your quote sounds exactly like shock protection for CD players. Wouldn't this be a REALLY REALLY cheap thing to implement in ALL CD players or recievers with a digital input?
     
analogika
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Jul 11, 2005, 07:40 PM
 
sssh!

you'll ruin the market!



(and BASICALLY, yes. In practise, I believe it's not that simple.)
     
suvsr4terrorists
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Jul 11, 2005, 09:10 PM
 
I always wondered why they didn't put shock protection in car decks. Like 2 of htem ahve had it, but considering how cheap it must be, they should ALL have it. Then I wouldn't skip when I hit a pothole or something (which I have to slalom around here in milwaukee making even straight roads rather fun).
     
Y3a  (op)
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Jul 11, 2005, 09:12 PM
 
I thought the data was going at the speed of light. How do you slow it down? Is this old RADAR technology voodoo? You can design small buffers that take care of that jitter stuff, even if it's just a few micro seconds.
     
budster101
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Jul 11, 2005, 09:15 PM
 
You can have a 20 minute buffer.. and it's not at the speed of light.
     
Y3a  (op)
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Jul 11, 2005, 09:19 PM
 
You can sure tell the audio types from those latecomers in this thread.

It's like if you were really into cars and some guy came up and watched you replace a timing chain, and then he professes he knows lots about cars because he has these friends that mess around with 'em.

You know your an audiophile when you spend 3 hours carefully moving your loudspeaker a few mm at a time to get the image right.

You know you're an audiophile when you can hear your pre-amps tubes getting old.

You know you're an audiopile when you can tell you've played an LP one too many times.

You know you're an audiophile when you can hear a difference in your electrostatic loudspeakers every time it rains.

You know you're an audiophile when you refer to them as "Blows 901's"


LOL
     
suvsr4terrorists
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Jul 11, 2005, 09:21 PM
 
Originally Posted by Y3a
You know you're an audiopile when you can tell you've played an LP one too many times.
Or you just play records.
     
budster101
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Jul 11, 2005, 09:24 PM
 
I like the idea of LPs. I'd go back to them and am a bit upset they have been pushed aside. You can use both. LP to recordable cd.

And, I agree that BOSE sucks too. Great for movies, I mean mind blowsing movies but for true reproduction of orchestral and detailed pieces of music, they blow.
     
Sherwin
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Jul 11, 2005, 09:32 PM
 
Here's a bit more for you Ca$h.

The worst thing you can do when plugging up a digital system is use an unstable source as the timing reference for the entire system (see 'Problems' section on next page). It's easy to do -- you might have a domestic CD player you want to connect, but it has no external reference clock input. So you might connect this to a mixer input and configure the mixer to lock to the CD player's output, with all the other equipment being clocked from the desk. In this situation, any variation in the CD player's clock timing (called Jitter -- the digital version of wow and flutter, if you like), will be passed through the complete system, corrupting the master recording.

Jitter can be caused in other ways, too, the most common being poor quality or excessively long cables. All cables have capacitance between the signal conductors and the earthed screen, which will tend to absorb high-frequency energy from the signals being passed through the cable. Cheap cables tend to have high capacitance (ideally, you need something with 40pF/m or less for digits) which will tend to make the effect worse. Since digital signals are basically rapidly-changing square waves with harmonics which run up to several tens of megahertz, cable capacitance will soak up these high frequencies, so that the nice square signal entering the cable falls out the other end as rounded or triangular shapes. This sloping of data edges can cause confusion in the decoding circuitry, which results in the data being reconstructed at the wrong time. The audible effects of Jitter include an increase in high-frequency noise (often mistakenly identified as extra brightness) and unstable or muddy stereo images.

S/PDIF signals struggle to get through more than a couple of metres of even the best cable, and the standard give-away Tos-Link optical leads are no better. AES-EBU can survive a couple of hundred meters down decent low-capacitance cable, but every connector causes some internal reflections, so avoid linking lots of short lengths together. Multitrack connections often run at much higher rates than simple stereo connections, so the problems of cables tends to be even worse. The best advice is to keep all digital connections as short and direct as possible, and always use decent cables.
http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/1996...nterfaces.html
     
suvsr4terrorists
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Jul 11, 2005, 09:37 PM
 
Hrm I guess it's a good thing I don't use optical cables. Actually. No cables. Right now my main system is a pioner HTD 510. DVD/CD changer and amp in one. Direct connection. Heh. For my turntables I just use some phattie gold plated RCAs with thick insulation I found on clearance at an audio store.
     
Sherwin
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Jul 11, 2005, 09:43 PM
 
Originally Posted by Y3a
You know your an audiophile when you spend 3 hours carefully moving your loudspeaker a few mm at a time to get the image right.

You know you're an audiophile when you can hear your pre-amps tubes getting old.

You know you're an audiopile when you can tell you've played an LP one too many times.

You know you're an audiophile when you can hear a difference in your electrostatic loudspeakers every time it rains.

You know you're an audiophile when you refer to them as "Blows 901's"
And you know you're in the music biz when you're sitting there reading audiophile stuff and thinking to yourself 'if only they knew that we recorded that piece using an old half-broken 2" which we hadn't degaussed for a month and a $50 mic from Radio Shack while we were smashed out of our heads on JD'.

Rock and roll.
     
analogika
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Jul 12, 2005, 04:24 AM
 
Originally Posted by Sherwin
And you know you're in the music biz when you're sitting there reading audiophile stuff and thinking to yourself 'if only they knew that we recorded that piece using an old half-broken 2" which we hadn't degaussed for a month and a $50 mic from Radio Shack while we were smashed out of our heads on JD'.

Rock and roll.
Heh.

One of my favorite mics is a National electrete condensor stick that my parents got a pair of cheap with their stereo back in the 70s.

Though of course, the difference between creation and reproduction is that, in creation, often you WANT stuff to affect the sound.
     
Link
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Jul 12, 2005, 04:30 AM
 
Originally Posted by Translation of what Y3a said
You know you're bored when you spend 3 hours carefully moving your loudspeaker a few mm at a time to get the image right.

You know you're an jerk when you can hear your pre-amps tubes getting old... and care.

You know you're lacking girlfriend when you can tell you've played an LP one too many times.

You know you really need to get laid when you can hear a difference in your electrostatic loudspeakers every time it rains.

You know you're not going to ever reproduce when you refer to them as "Blows 901's"


Geez dude, get a life already, soon enough the only noise that'll matter to you is heavy breathing and quickly compressing and depressing springs.
Aloha
     
analogika
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Jul 12, 2005, 04:56 AM
 
Originally Posted by Link


Geez dude, get a life already, soon enough the only noise that'll matter to you is heavy breathing and quickly compressing and depressing springs.
Are you really one to talk?
     
suvsr4terrorists
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Jul 12, 2005, 08:52 AM
 
I think he meant more along the lines of "girls" are more important to think about than sound. Not that he's a player. Maybe I read it wrong, but...
     
Y3a  (op)
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Jul 12, 2005, 10:30 AM
 
Well, My Fiance' is a song writer, I was a Nightclub DJ and sound engineer, and we both like the 80's music. We both know what it should sound like.


I do notice that Link must NOT be getting any, since he's preoccupied by the subject.
     
suvsr4terrorists
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Jul 12, 2005, 11:34 AM
 
Originally Posted by Y3a
I do notice that Link must NOT be getting any, since he's preoccupied by the subject.
If you aren't preoccupied by getting some then you aren't male.
     
Sherwin
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Jul 12, 2005, 12:00 PM
 
Originally Posted by suvsr4terrorists
If you aren't preoccupied by getting some then you aren't male.
Or you've just rolled off...
     
suvsr4terrorists
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Jul 12, 2005, 12:01 PM
 
Originally Posted by Sherwin
Or you've just rolled off...
     
analogika
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Jul 12, 2005, 06:14 PM
 
Originally Posted by suvsr4terrorists
I think he meant more along the lines of "girls" are more important to think about than sound.
Yes, so did I, and I pointed out that he is NOT the one to be making that observation.
     
suvsr4terrorists
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Jul 12, 2005, 07:17 PM
 
Originally Posted by analogika
Yes, so did I, and I pointed out that he is NOT the one to be making that observation.
Why?
     
analogika
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Jul 12, 2005, 08:12 PM
 
     
Link
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Jul 12, 2005, 08:39 PM
 
Originally Posted by analogika
Yes, so did I, and I pointed out that he is NOT the one to be making that observation.
Aloha
     
suvsr4terrorists
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Jul 12, 2005, 09:02 PM
 
Link are you gay?
     
Railroader
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Jul 12, 2005, 10:46 PM
 
Have you seen the pic of Link around here? He has a big um... sword.


Seriously. It's a sword.
     
suvsr4terrorists
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Jul 12, 2005, 11:29 PM
 
eh?
     
analogika
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Jul 13, 2005, 03:24 AM
 
Dude, let me spell it out for the braindead:
a role-playing geek showing up in an audio-geek thread telling people to get a life has got to be the epitome of irony.
     
suvsr4terrorists
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Jul 13, 2005, 03:25 AM
 
Ah. To be fair, he didn't say he was GETTING tons of girls, he said you should be spending more time THINKING about them. Back when I was 13-15 all I did was think about girls also, and my grades suffered accordingly.
     
Cubeoid
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Jul 13, 2005, 03:34 AM
 
Originally Posted by ReggieX
sucker!

Audiophiles are generally full of crap anyway, so their opinions mean precisely jack to me.

I listen to MUSIC, not EQUIPMENT.
     
analogika
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Jul 13, 2005, 03:43 AM
 
Thumbsup all you want, but if he's only hearing half of it, his point falls flat.
     
suvsr4terrorists
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Jul 13, 2005, 03:49 AM
 
Originally Posted by analogika
Thumbsup all you want, but if he's only hearing half of it, his point falls flat.
Are you sure it doesn't fall sharp?
     
Y3a  (op)
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Jul 13, 2005, 06:33 AM
 
And I guess Cubeoid and ReggieX both listen IN MONO.
     
analogika
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Jul 13, 2005, 11:35 AM
 
Actually, the old "white tulip" Deutsche Grammophon mono recordings are some of the best recordings ever made...and there's a musical quality about the old single-horn gramophone recordings that can't be beat by near anything recorded since. (Oh, sure, the *sound* of a Living Stereo LP is to die for, but still...)

     
Y3a  (op)
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Jul 13, 2005, 02:19 PM
 
NO THEY AREN'T!!!! "Best recordings ever made" LOL
     
analogika
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Jul 13, 2005, 02:51 PM
 
depends what you're listening for, I guess.

single-mic recordings do have an inherent advantage over multi-track recordings - provided they are done well. But that does come down to taste for a large part.

And I'm NOT going to get into a tiff with you over matters of taste.
     
suvsr4terrorists
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Jul 13, 2005, 03:06 PM
 
oh no! Internet audiophile fight!!!!!
     
Sherwin
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Jul 13, 2005, 03:25 PM
 
<Cartman>Ladies and gentlemen, over on aisle three we have an Internet audiophile fight</Cartman>
If it doesn't scare hippies, it's not worth listening to
     
suvsr4terrorists
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Jul 13, 2005, 03:43 PM
 
Dude, that's exactly what I was thinking when I posted that. In fact, I was almost going to post this image:



but for some reason I decided against it. Heh.
     
Y3a  (op)
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Jul 13, 2005, 04:04 PM
 
While mono recordings could be good recordings, the fact IS that the Microphones were crap back then. they were peaky in response, had NO bass, and clipped easily into the mic input of the microphone preamps of the day. Early "Stereo" was 2 channels of lousy sound. Early multitrack also stunk, as did early digital.

A few, specially designed boards and mic inputs and using a direct-to-disc process made the disks sound very good, because it stayed analog, and because there was no tape compression, or distortion added. Sheffield Labs did a few great recordings in the 1970's that were hard to beat. The engineers and recording engineers and producers were some of the best studio types around at the time. The arrangements were not that good sometimes. Thelma Houston & Pressure Cooker was the first album with vocals. They also recorded Tower of Power, which I think was the best they ever did. They also recorded Harry James Big Band in a church for the acoustics. M&K did a direct to disk record of Pipe Organ music, which had the deepest frequency ever put on a non-calibration/test record at somewhere around 11hZ.
     
suvsr4terrorists
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Jul 13, 2005, 04:06 PM
 
Do you realize that you're in the same realm as a trekkie?
     
Railroader
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Jul 13, 2005, 04:36 PM
 
Originally Posted by suvsr4terrorists
Do you realize that you're in the same realm as a trekkie?
Says the SVX guy.
     
suvsr4terrorists
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Jul 13, 2005, 04:36 PM
 
Originally Posted by Railroader
Says the SVX guy.
Huh?
     
Railroader
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Jul 13, 2005, 04:41 PM
 
Your a fanatical fanboy for a product most people couldn't care less about. Think about it.
     
Y3a  (op)
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Jul 13, 2005, 04:50 PM
 
<< Your a fanatical fanboy for a product most people couldn't care less about. Think about it. >>

And you've been posting in this thread too! Why, If you don't care?
     
 
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