[TailsToo]

I was reading about the Airport base station on Apple's page when I saw this:

"Most new Mac computers ship with built-in 802.11n wireless support that can be easily enabled with the installation of enabler software included with new AirPort Extreme wireless base station."

Does that mean that if I decide not to buy an Apple router that I can't get the higher speed? Is anyone else a little miffed about this? I know Apple never claimed anything more than G when the machine was released, but it seems kinda cheap that Apple would do this...

[Philip J. Fry]

What's to say that Leopard won't enable this?

[TailsToo]

Nothing - but what's to stop them from releasing a driver update for Tiger since apparently they already have written it.

There are a ton of PC laptops with 802.11n already built-in - this would just bring Apple back on par with them.

[dimmer]

If you have an intel mac (bar the one iMac listed) you'll get 802.11n, if not you won't as (of course) the chip-set doesn't support it. Interoperability of 802.11n devices between vendors will be hit and miss as there is no final "standard" yet, so you may want to take care with that.

[mduell]

Originally Posted by dimmer 

If you have an intel mac (bar the one iMac listed) you'll get 802.11n, if not you won't as (of course) the chip-set doesn't support it. Interoperability of 802.11n devices between vendors will be hit and miss as there is no final "standard" yet, so you may want to take care with that.

The OP's concern is that Intel Mac owners will only get the 802.11n driver if they buy the Airport Extreme. The driver is not currently included with OSX.

[Zeeb]

Originally Posted by dimmer 

If you have an intel mac (bar the one iMac listed) you'll get 802.11n, if not you won't as (of course) the chip-set doesn't support it.

There's a list of mac's with 802.11n? I imagine my rev A mbp wouldn't make the list. oh well.

[Simon]

It's too early to panic. The update could appear in SU once Apple has actually finished the drivers. Seeing that the new APE won't be selling till February it's probably safe to assume they haven't finished the drivers yet.

OTOH since 802.11n hasn't been finalized yet, Apple might feel reluctant to offer 802.11n support outside of their own turf (that is communication between their APE and their new C2D hardware).

[Big Mac]

It would be unusal for Apple to tie 802.11N support exclusively to new basestation. There's always a chance Apple could do something wacky like that, but I bet the probability is low. I say just give the engineers a little more time to get the drivers finished.

[solofx7]

i dunno why, but i am looking forward to the N being enabled...
i guess for wireless high speed backups...
since there is only 1 usb port, i would be interested to see if they support a usb hub for those of us that want wireless printing as well as wireless backups.

[macintologist]

Originally Posted by solofx7 

i dunno why, but i am looking forward to the N being enabled...
i guess for wireless high speed backups...
since there is only 1 usb port, i would be interested to see if they support a usb hub for those of us that want wireless printing as well as wireless backups.

Yes they do.

[TailsToo]

Since I don't like to keep all of my files on my laptop, I'd like it so I can connect to a Mac Mini and use it for filesharing.

Interesting article over at iLounge about this... Apple is blaming this marketing plan on the Sarbanes-Oxley act...

Oh, about that 802.11n card in your C2D Mac

How is this a problem, but releasing software to let your Mac run Windows after the products came out okay?

[TailsToo]

Double Post - Sorry

[mduell]

Originally Posted by solofx7 

since there is only 1 usb port, i would be interested to see if they support a usb hub for those of us that want wireless printing as well as wireless backups.

They've never supported that and the wording on the new Airport Extreme site doesn't imply that they're going to change.

Originally Posted by TailsToo 

Since I don't like to keep all of my files on my laptop, I'd like it so I can connect to a Mac Mini and use it for filesharing.

Interesting article over at iLounge about this... Apple is blaming this marketing plan on the Sarbanes-Oxley act...

Oh, about that 802.11n card in your C2D Mac

How is this a problem, but releasing software to let your Mac run Windows after the products came out okay?

Has any other company claimed this? MS added a few apps to Windows with XP SP2... I wonder if they're facing a suit from their shareholders over it.

[Simon]

Originally Posted by mduell 

They've never supported that and the wording on the new Airport Extreme site doesn't imply that they're going to change.

Complete nonsense.

The actual AirPort Extreme page states explicitly:
"Just connect a USB hub to AirPort Extreme and attach your devices to the hub. Share both a printer and a hard drive, multiple printers, or multiple hard drives.".

So you will be able to attach a hub to that single USB port in order to share multiple printers and USB HDDs.

[Gamoe]

According to Wikipedia, the n standard is expected to become final and approved (as I understand it) in April of 2008.

Frankly, I think Apple believes that 802.11n can greatly benefit  tv and Macintosh users and just got tired of waiting. That said, they may not want to claim that Macs are compatible with other routers because of some possible incompatibility with current and future finalized n routers.

It really would be odd and unusual for Apple not to give us the proper n drivers for Mac OS X, though. I guess we'll have to keep an eye on this one.

[solofx7]

well currently my router and macbook do not talk at N.
it is odd, but i really think that apple is going to make the N enabled as they say through the hardware of the new router.
i am not sure how, but i think they may block us from using other routers.
to me that is fine, because i want the features of the new Mac router.

[Gossamer]

Well even if Apple doesn't release the drivers outside of the Airport base stations, they are most definitely going to show up somewhere on the internet.

[P]

Apple has stated that all Macs delivered with Core 2 Duo CPUs except the low-end iMac with integrated graphics support draft 802.11 n.

[mduell]

Originally Posted by Simon 

Complete nonsense.

The actual AirPort Extreme page states explicitly:
"Just connect a USB hub to AirPort Extreme and attach your devices to the hub. Share both a printer and a hard drive, multiple printers, or multiple hard drives.".

So you will be able to attach a hub to that single USB port in order to share multiple printers and USB HDDs.

Bwwaaaaaaaaaaa! I swear it said something about one or the other. Good to know.

[Simon]

Originally Posted by mduell 

Bwwaaaaaaaaaaa! I swear it said something about one or the other. Good to know.

Macintologist's post (just above yours) already mentioned it. Maybe you should try actually reading threads before posting. I understand that crapping in every thread will increase your post count, but it doesn't necessarily add to the thread's quality.

[TailsToo]

I'll probably by the new Airport anyway, but still it would be nice for Apple to allow their customers to make their own choice.

It's just tough when you see other brands for $100-$130 for their 802.11n router and Apple wants so much more. I have a linksys G now that was like $50, when Apple wanted $200 for theirs.

I don't mind paying more for Apple quality, but I'd prefer to make that purchase my choice to support Apple, not the only option to get n speed our of my MacBook Pro.

[mojo5436]

This article should explain. Interesting how the accounting issue is driving this:

AppleInsider | Apple to impose 802.11n unlocking fee on Intel Mac owners

[TailsToo]

I'm still confused as to why that would be - Why couldn't they release the drivers as Beta, as they did with BootCamp. That sure sounds like extra functionality, yet it was done.

I really don't care about $5, if that's what the cost will be, though. I'm just glad it sounds like we'll be able to use N sometime soon.

[ghporter]

The hardware is there, but it is turned off in the firmware. Buying a new APBS gets you the upgrade firmware to turn it on. Buying the "unlock" update for $5 also gets you the upgrade firmware.

But please keep in mind that this is still DRAFT N hardware, and the IEEE could do a 180 (or a 526.54 for that matter) and completely change the FINAL N standard so that this hardware is stuck as proprietary forever. Move cautiously...

[mduell]

I think the analogy to BootCamp is apt; BootCamp added a little bit of software (CSM) to unlock/add additional functionality to existing hardware.

[mrmister]

Maybe we should wait until it's actually announced by Apple before endlessly debating the logic of it, or lack thereof?

[mojo5436]

Slow day at work...

[solofx7]

i also agree that charging to enable hardware is a devious type thing t odo, and i sure do not belive the accounting error thing.
but in this instance i do not think that there is going to be a "winning" per se by the consumer.
it is such a low amount i am inclined to just pay it, but this is very "Microsoft-like"

[Zeeb]

Originally Posted by ghporter 

The hardware is there, but it is turned off in the firmware. Buying a new APBS gets you the upgrade firmware to turn it on. Buying the "unlock" update for $5 also gets you the upgrade firmware.

But please keep in mind that this is still DRAFT N hardware, and the IEEE could do a 180 (or a 526.54 for that matter) and completely change the FINAL N standard so that this hardware is stuck as proprietary forever. Move cautiously...

True, but there are so many new notebooks from a variety of manufacturers that use the draft standard now that its become a "default" standard. Best Buy and Circuit City are filled with draft n equipment. My point is this isn't stuff that's being sold in a few small independent computer shops or specialty trade shows. It's as if a new standard has been released.

If IEEE changes the standard dramatically(do you really think so at this point? -who knows), it will be the new, official equipment that will be proprietary--at least for awhile. Also, as far as I know all the draft equipment is backwards compatible anyway correct? --so there seems to be little risk in buying draft "n".

[TailsToo]

So Apple's only going to ask for $1.99

Apple to charge for faster Wi-Fi | CNET News.com

"For less than a Starbucks Frap, you too can have 5x the speed of G"

[mojo5436]

Thanks for the article. Should help clear things up.

[mduell]

Originally Posted by solofx7 

it is such a low amount i am inclined to just pay it, but this is very "Microsoft-like"

When was the last time Microsoft did something like this? All of their updated drivers are free from windowsupdate.

[ghporter]

According to shifuimam in this thread in the iBook/MacBook forum (from 16Jan at 7:27 Central Standard Time-just two posts below my last one),

Originally Posted by shifuimam

Apple is blaming the charge on the Sarbanes-Oxley Act that was put into place after the big Enron scandal. They claim that because the hardware was not originally advertised to be N-capable, they must charge to enable that ability. I do wonder, however, how they're playing off the fact that the card is A-capable, which according to another post in this thread was NOT advertised.

Whether or not the SOx excuse has any validity is debatable.

I have to agree with him on the debatability of the argument, but I also point out that he doesn't cite any source for this. If there IS a requirement to "charge for unadvertised features that are newly enabled," then I'd like to see the ACTUAL legal language that requires it.

[Eriamjh]

What can original CD imac owners pay to get 802.11n? I don't want to put in a lousy USB stick.

[mojo5436]

Sorry dude, S.O.L. Only started shipping the N cards with the C2D's. Minus the 17" 1.83 iMac. Probably have to go 3rd party. Are the wireless cards in the iMacs upgradeable?

Apple last week confirmed the move, saying Mac systems currently shipping with hidden 802.11n capabilities included the Core 2 Duo MacBook, Core 2 Duo MacBook Pro, Mac Pro with AirPort Extreme, and the Core 2 Duo iMac (with the exception of the 17-inch 1.83GHz model).

[solofx7]

Originally Posted by mduell 

When was the last time Microsoft did something like this? All of their updated drivers are free from windowsupdate.

i agree, but what i am saying is Microsoft is very shifty and more known for this sort of practice.
this is an odd thing that i did not think that apple would do, but at least they have lowered the price to $2 bucks.
i think that it is affordable, so i will pay it, i just hope this is not a sign of things to come in the future.

[solofx7]

Originally Posted by mduell 

When was the last time Microsoft did something like this? All of their updated drivers are free from windowsupdate.

oh, and the last time microsoft did something like this.... Vista?
how are you going to charge me for features of an OS?
how is an OS worth $600?
makes no sense.

[ghporter]

Microsoft does not sell the kind of hardware we're talking about, and it looks like Apple's take is that they are "adding a hardware capability" in this case. If it keeps them out of trouble with their accounting practices, then I don't think it's such a big deal; if you can afford a computer, you can afford another $1.99 for the unlock code.

[Simon]

If this is really just an accounting thing due to the Sarbanes-Oxley Act, Apple could of course chose to not charge for the update outside of the US.

I doubt that would actually happen, but OTOH why should people in other countries have to pay for bad US legislation?

[Javizun]

Of course this is a sign of what is going to happen in the future.

Why didnt apple advertise the N-draft?

This is so stupid for them to that to its fan base.

Yeah is only 2 bucks which is nothing but i have a feeling that this is to test the waters
and depending on how it fairs out the ywill slowly start charging for updates etc.

And the sad thing about it all is that people will still look at apple as the good guy.
Microsoft is not doing this type of ****-other comapnys give you free drivers which is basically what this is.

Is not our fault they did not want to advertise N-draft but we have to pay?
2 times x (whatever amount of core 2 duo mac owners are out there) equals to more then a million bucks.

This is shady business and im afraid companys will take notice and try to do the same.

people accepting this or dismissing it as "is only 1.99 etc" your clearly missing the big picture here.
apple will just continue with this practice and because is only "1.99" why not charge them.
Their ok with it why not make money of their O.K.

They got us by the balls-we have n-DRAFT cARDS BUT WE NEED THIS ENABLER-THIS SUCKS.
and yeah why should other countrys have to pay for it as well? is bad u.s legislation why should they have to pay? SOUNDS FISHY

[solofx7]

Originally Posted by Javizun 

Of course this is a sign of what is going to happen in the future.

Why didnt apple advertise the N-draft?

This is so stupid for them to that to its fan base.

Yeah is only 2 bucks which is nothing but i have a feeling that this is to test the waters
and depending on how it fairs out the ywill slowly start charging for updates etc.

And the sad thing about it all is that people will still look at apple as the good guy.
Microsoft is not doing this type of ****-other comapnys give you free drivers which is basically what this is.

Is not our fault they did not want to advertise N-draft but we have to pay?
2 times x (whatever amount of core 2 duo mac owners are out there) equals to more then a million bucks.

This is shady business and im afraid companys will take notice and try to do the same.

people accepting this or dismissing it as "is only 1.99 etc" your clearly missing the big picture here.
apple will just continue with this practice and because is only "1.99" why not charge them.
Their ok with it why not make money of their O.K.

They got us by the balls-we have n-DRAFT cARDS BUT WE NEED THIS ENABLER-THIS SUCKS.
and yeah why should other countrys have to pay for it as well? is bad u.s legislation why should they have to pay? SOUNDS FISHY

hmmm... i am going to post my crappy 2 cents about this.
first i think that the reason this is happening is because at the time, the N thing was not a ratified protocol.
i am not 100% sure of this, but i know that there was a ton of pre-N stuff for a long time, but they could not guarantee speeds and or compatability because N certification did not really exist.
that being said, the reason apple may have to chanrge for it is that it was not a ratified protocol and not advertised as such and not it is essentially a hardware change.
could this all be true, i guess, but do not flame me because i am not a lawyer and or an expert.
i am just giving my opinion.
i do agree if this is a sign of things to come, then it is dirty and under handed.
not nearly as bad in my eyes as ms...
essentially the same os, but charging hundreds of dollars for features? that is crappy...
anyone that had the RTM knows that all versions are on the same disc and it feels like a freakin rip off for feature charging... that is nearly the same thing that we are blasting apple for... this is software that enables functions that MS is charging hundreds for...
now... apple is charging 1.99 for a feature that not alot of people may need or use...

[mduell]

If the SOX explanation is correct, is Apple going to need to restate their earnings (again) due to BootCamp?

Originally Posted by solofx7 

i agree, but what i am saying is Microsoft is very shifty and more known for this sort of practice.
this is an odd thing that i did not think that apple would do, but at least they have lowered the price to $2 bucks.
i think that it is affordable, so i will pay it, i just hope this is not a sign of things to come in the future.

Originally Posted by solofx7 

oh, and the last time microsoft did something like this.... Vista?
how are you going to charge me for features of an OS?
how is an OS worth $600?
makes no sense.

I repeat my question. When was the last time MS charged a token fee for a driver update?

In reply to your Vista jab, it has quite a few new features and starts at $99.

[solofx7]

Originally Posted by mduell 

If the SOX explanation is correct, is Apple going to need to restate their earnings (again) due to BootCamp?




I repeat my question. When was the last time MS charged a token fee for a driver update?

In reply to your Vista jab, it has quite a few new features and starts at $99.

first i will request again that you not get smart with me nor take my opinion to heart. this is nothing personal.
feel free to defend MS as much as you like, but there is no need for the sarcasm.
the facts are that i do not agree with Apple charging for a driver, but i do not see it as a trend.
MS may have never done this, but charging hugely overpriced amounts for a questionable OS that amounts to the 2007 version of Windows ME is very "SIMILAR" to charging for a freakin' driver.
you are going to charge me more for features of an OS/driver?!?!?!
something stinks here.
now "N" may not be something that everyone needs, and in that event you do not have to buy it...
in a very similar fashion everyone may not need all of the features of Windows Vista Ultimate, and in this instance do not buy it.
both smell fishy and seem wrong, i PERSONALLY feel worse and duped by not only having to pay more for OS features, but absolutely disturbed by the outrageous pricing.
you can also feel free to defend the MS online pricing scenario, but the same way you fall baack on that is the same reason that MS created it, horrible press and horrible pricing.
that being the case, this is a MAC forum, and i personally love MAC products.
so when Vista comes out i will NOT buy it...
i have XP that i got for free when i worked on the other side of the fence and still feel cheated that to use the item that i purchased i have to call and have it activated...
that is not that bad, but it craps out so much that format reload is a normal occurance and thus activation.
to rub some salt in the wound i have to explain why it is that i am reinstalling their crappy product and activating it again.
sorry, but that does not feel good anywhere.
i have XP on boot camp for games and that is it...
i think that answers my MS exp and thus why i am not happy with them or their strategies.
when OS X 10.5 comes out i will gladly wait in line and plunk down my 19 - 59 bucks for my student or Bank of Americs discount, whichever is greater for an OS and a company that i do not feel is trying to screw me at every turn.
yes i will pay for more OS's over the years that may add up to 1 MS based OS because the company and product is much better in my exp...
if you want me to tell you about that i will, but then again it is my choice.
once again i am entitled to my preferences and would appreciate it if you would leave it as such...
if you are offended by my opinion on this, then i appologize.
have a nice day.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by mduell 

In reply to your Vista jab, it has quite a few new features and starts at $99.

Are you aware of how gutted the $100 version of Windows Vista is?

[mduell]

Originally Posted by goMac 

Are you aware of how gutted the $100 version of Windows Vista is?

Without going through them one by one, I'd estimate that over 90% of the features listed in the article I linked to are included in the $99 Home Basic Upgrade.

[solofx7]

Originally Posted by goMac 

Are you aware of how gutted the $100 version of Windows Vista is?

i will agree with you...
even via download, i have RTM Ultimate and it is not worth the 100 bucks...
once again my opinion...
poop on a stick and a really stinky stick...