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List your FireWire devices… (Page 2)
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Professional Poster
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: UKland
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Originally Posted by analogika 
They aren't.
They've just re-positioned it (as Firewire 800) to the pro market. The consumer market no longer cares about Firewire.
ha, they'll damn well care when i have to charge them to put their drive into an enclosure to test/recover data rather than just slam the machine into FWTDM.
Mind you, apple have at least made the drives easy to pull so I guess you are looking at 30/40 seconds to pull the drive. Another 30 or so to slap it into a FW enclosure. So maybe a minute and a quarter all in.
Maybe I'm not so bothered after all.
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This space for Hire! Reasonable rates. Reach an audience of literally dozens!
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Posting Junkie
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Mac Elite
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Dallas, TX, USA
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Originally Posted by analogika
They've just re-positioned it (as Firewire 800) to the pro market. The consumer market no longer cares about Firewire.
Two counter-points to that:
(1) Lots of the consumer market has no need to upgrade their perfectly adequate MiniDV cameras and other Firewire peripherals... so, Apple has effectively made upgrading to the next Macbook cost those consumers an extra $600-$1500... making those expensive consumer Macbooks ridiculously expensive. Its the pros that upgrade cameras to the latest versions, not average consumers.
(2) Apple seems to have missed that a lot of us PRO users out here would happily pay MORE for the smaller machine!! I do a lot of work on airplanes... a LOT of work. The 15" machine is a PITA on an airplane. Even in a cramped conference room, the extra size of a 15" machine can be awkward. I walk from meeting to meeting with my 12"/13" machine... I don't want any extra weight. I actually prefer the 12" PowerBook size-wise. And YES, I do a lot of video editing on that 13" machine (often with external monitor attached). And YES, I use Target Disk Mode often... using my Mac to support others.
I'm hoping the new MacBook sells really poorly... I actively discourage people from buying it, pointing them to refurb'ed white MacBooks instead... because in the end, its really poor sales that'll be the petition that Apple listens to.
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Mac Nut since before color Macs, working for UT Austin Microcenter supporting Mac users
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Clinically Insane
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: 888500128, C3, 2nd soft.
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Originally Posted by kennedy
Two counter-points to that:
(1) Lots of the consumer market has no need to upgrade their perfectly adequate MiniDV cameras and other Firewire peripherals... so, Apple has effectively made upgrading to the next Macbook cost those consumers an extra $600-$1500... making those expensive consumer Macbooks ridiculously expensive. Its the pros that upgrade cameras to the latest versions, not average consumers.
By the time the Firewire-enabled low-end MacBook is no longer available, that number will have shrunk further.
From what I gather, consumers only *really* started buying digital video cameras once they got extremely cheap. The Firewire cams spearheaded the digital home video development, but the mass market quickly settled on USB.
And the market of *consumers* with Firewire-enabled devices that don't have USB in addition, or that aren't more than three years old and up for a holiday replacement anyway, is absolutely *miniscule* compared with those who really don't care about Firewire.
Apple doesn't need to sell everything to everybody. They're perfectly happy selling one thing that *most* people will want. 
Originally Posted by kennedy
(2) Apple seems to have missed that a lot of us PRO users out here would happily pay MORE for the smaller machine!! I do a lot of work on airplanes... a LOT of work. The 15" machine is a PITA on an airplane. Even in a cramped conference room, the extra size of a 15" machine can be awkward. I walk from meeting to meeting with my 12"/13" machine... I don't want any extra weight. I actually prefer the 12" PowerBook size-wise. And YES, I do a lot of video editing on that 13" machine (often with external monitor attached). And YES, I use Target Disk Mode often... using my Mac to support others.
I agree entirely.
Originally Posted by kennedy
I'm hoping the new MacBook sells really poorly... I actively discourage people from buying it, pointing them to refurb'ed white MacBooks instead... because in the end, its really poor sales that'll be the petition that Apple listens to.
Dream on. 
They're selling like hotcakes: Because they're *damn* nice machines for the 90+% of the market that doesn't give a **** about Firewire...and for whom the display is "good enough"...
I'd really *love* a 13" MacBook with Firewire, backlit keyboard, and a screen the quality of the MacBook Air's... I'd pay a premium for that...
But I can live with the 15" MacBook Pro.
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Posting Junkie
Join Date: Dec 2000
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Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot
And the market of *consumers* with Firewire-enabled devices that don't have USB in addition, or that aren't more than three years old and up for a holiday replacement anyway, is absolutely *miniscule* compared with those who really don't care about Firewire.
Once again, the camcorders that have both FireWire and USB typically use the USB port for still shots only, and do not output video through it.
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Clinically Insane
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: 888500128, C3, 2nd soft.
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That doesn't really affect what I said, though, if the market for Firewire-based consumer cameras is dwindling, and USB cam sales will have eclipsed the number of Firewire DV cams still in use in consumer households by the time the Firewire plastic MacBook is no longer available.
That should easily be the case, no?
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Posting Junkie
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: in front of my Mac
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Originally Posted by Dakar V
Hilariously, one MacBook has integrated graphics and the other doesn't have FireWire. Pick your poison.
Actually they both have integrated graphics. The 9400M is faster than the X3100 or X4500, but all of those are still "integrated" and share regular RAM because they don't have their own VRAM and graphics memory bus.
So there's only FW to pick (or not to pick).
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Posting Junkie
Join Date: Nov 2000
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Of the peripherals I actually use on a regular basis the only FW devices I have left are two external FW enclosures with HDDs. They're good but I wouldn't mind exchanging them for eSATA. I use them mainly for backing up stuff and that's not really time critical. Even USB would be sufficient for that.
iPod, iPhone, external burner, etc. are all already USB.
Personally I think FW is pretty much history. And I blame Apple for that to a large extent actually. It was a good interface, but they botched market adoption big time. Now we have to hold out for USB3 and bus-powered eSATA. 
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Clinically Insane
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Los Angeles
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Simon, I disagree with you on this point: I don't think FW is history. We don't have to take this sitting down. I think Apple is hearing a pretty loud outcry from its base about removing it from the MacBook line. Apple has given into user demands before (though it seems we'll be waiting a long time for the xMac  ).
Btw, I had to pick something up from Target two weeks ago and noticed in the electronics section that two of the eight camcorders on display were miniDV based, Apple's claims to the contrary about the consumer camcorder market notwithstanding.
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"The natural progress of things is for liberty to yield and government to gain ground." TJ
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Posting Junkie
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: in front of my Mac
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Well I said "pretty much history" because although I don't believe it will totally vanish, I do think it's on its way to becoming a total niche interface. You'll see it here and there (I guess mainly in pro audio), but 97% of the people won't know what it is and will care even less. But sure, that's just my guess. We'll have to wait and see what really happens.
Regarding your other point, I'm not so sure. I really don't think Apple is hearing that much of a big outcry right now. The new MBs seem to be selling very well. So I don't expect them to reverse on the FW decision. I'm anxious to see what they on the updated iMac and Mac mini. My guess the iMac gets to keep FW800 (since it's pretty much a non-portable MBP anyway) and the mini (which is essentially a non-portable MB) will drop it. I guess we'll know more in January.
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Last edited by Simon; Nov 30, 2008 at 06:35 AM.
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Dedicated MacNNer
Join Date: May 2008
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Four external hard drives and one DVD burner daisy-chained together into one neat package.
1 x 80GB 2.5" drive in bus-powered case
1 x 400GB 3.5" drive
1 x 500GB 3.5" drive
1 x 1 TiB WD MyBook
1 x Pioneer DVD +- RW DL in ADS case
All in dual USB/FireWire cases, because I've just had Apple hurt me too many times with the whole "'This is the greatest technology ever' (Wait a while) 'We're dropping it'" thing. It's gonna suck to have to hub them all with a USB hub, but oh well....
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Junior Member
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: England
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