Welcome to the MacNN Forums.

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

You are here: MacNN Forums > Community > MacNN Lounge > Ceramic knives

Ceramic knives
Thread Tools
OreoCookie
Moderator
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Hilbert space
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 15, 2010, 06:50 PM
 
I want to give my sister a santoku knife as a gift. And I've thought about getting her a ceramic knife since they are lighter and do not need to be sharpened as often. Both points are important: I don't think my sister will ever have the intention of sharpening a knife, it's in the same category as making backups of her precious data on her computer

So do ceramic knives need to be honed before use? (I hone my knives before each use.) How brittle and fragile are they really? I'd like to hear your input
I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
     
Oisín
Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Copenhagen
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 15, 2010, 06:52 PM
 
I thought ceramic knives never had to be sharpened, and that sharpening them would actually ruin them?!

(In Before Mastrap™)
     
OreoCookie  (op)
Moderator
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Hilbert space
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 15, 2010, 06:58 PM
 
I don't think so either, although I've heard you can send your knife in to Kyocera and they'll sharpen it for you. You only need to pay for shipping and handling.

However, honing ≠ sharpening.
If you look at the edge of a knife under a microscope, you see that it looks like a sawtooth more. Honing aligns all those microscopic teeth in one direction. If you then buff the knife, it'll cut down the size of the teeth.
(At least that's the way I understand the process.)
I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
     
Brien
Professional Poster
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Southern California
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 15, 2010, 06:59 PM
 
They're SHARP, but don't drop one or you'll be sorry. They need no honing, but if they need to be sharpened, you usually have to send them into Kyocera etc.
     
ThinkInsane
Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Night's Plutonian shore...
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 15, 2010, 07:13 PM
 
They aren't great for chopping, but they are terrific for slicing. I was chopping an onion with mine and the edge chipped, so you might want to keep in mind her needs before buying one.
Nemo me impune lacesset
     
Thorzdad
Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Nobletucky
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 15, 2010, 09:23 PM
 
Ceramics are sharp as hell and never need sharpening. They are also very expensive and not forgiving when dropped or knocked around. Get her a really good steel santoku. It will serve her best, in the long run.
     
macaddict0001
Mac Elite
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Edmonton, AB
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 16, 2010, 01:30 AM
 
Some one who is not passionate about tools will likely abuse them, don't spend a lot. The edge will probably be used as a screwdriver or prybar anyway.Ok maybe not a santoku but still.
     
OreoCookie  (op)
Moderator
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Hilbert space
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 16, 2010, 02:54 AM
 
She's getting there. I got her a good pan and she has gotten to love it really quickly. And she said she's envious of my knives. So I thought of getting her a ceramic knife because they're lighter and don't need to be maintained as regularly. To be honest, they felt really nice in my hands when I tried them in the store, perhaps a little light, though.

And to get the most out of good knives, you need to care for them.
I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
     
Phileas
Mac Elite
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Toronto, Canada
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 16, 2010, 08:26 AM
 
Ceramic knives are a waste of time for all but the most specialized chefs. I cook a lot, and used to work in kitchens, my go to knife is a $20 carbon steel copy of a French all purpose farmers knife.

My expensive chef knife stays unused must of the time.

My second favorite, especially for slicing, is a CCK cleaver from Hong Kong. Again, carbon steel, very thin blade, $40.00. Good knives don't need to be expensive, but you do need to know what you're buying.

For you sister, a Wuesthof santuko might be a good option. They come with a slight curve, so encourage a proper rocking technique and the blade is pretty forgiving.

I suggest giving her the knife together with a knife skill course, where she can learn how to use it properly. It makes all the difference.
     
ShortcutToMoncton
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: The Rock
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 16, 2010, 09:27 AM
 
I would give her a MAC knife. Their Chef line is a great value but would still be a very, very high-quality gift that would make both of you proud.

Their TH-80 is, as Phileas put it, my go-to knife. It is a perfect-length chef's knife, and light and thin and bendy. It has also taken abuse from drunken friends who want to "cut shit at Greg's place." It holds a great edge - but like any knife you buy, yes, you will eventually have to sharpen it somewhere.

I've never felt the need to follow the trend and get the "all-important santoku" up to this point - this knife is my do-it-all tool. You can find it for less than $100 without much effort. You will also probably find a great number of reviews praising the greatness of this knife.

Forget the ceramic - do her a favour!

greg
Mankind's only chance is to harness the power of stupid.
     
OreoCookie  (op)
Moderator
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Hilbert space
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 16, 2010, 09:47 AM
 
Originally Posted by Phileas View Post
For you sister, a Wuesthof santuko might be a good option. They come with a slight curve, so encourage a proper rocking technique and the blade is pretty forgiving.
Actually, my mom was trying a Wüsthof santoku knife in her stead (since their hands are of similar size) and my mom preferred it to the Kyocera.

Regarding the cleaver, I reckon it's too heavy and bulky for her.
Originally Posted by ShortcutToMoncton View Post
I've never felt the need to follow the trend and get the "all-important santoku" up to this point - this knife is my do-it-all tool. You can find it for less than $100 without much effort. You will also probably find a great number of reviews praising the greatness of this knife.
My main knife is also not a santoku knife (yet?), it's called meat knife which is not quite as tall as a chef knife. I'll probably get a santoku knife as a graduation gift from my uncle.

I thought of a santoku knife for my sister since it is smaller and lighter than a traditional chef knife.

So it looks as if no one is recommending Kyocera, I see.
I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
     
finboy
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Garden of Paradise Motel, Suite 3D
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 16, 2010, 10:17 AM
 
Originally Posted by Phileas View Post
Ceramic knives are a waste of time for all but the most specialized chefs. I cook a lot, and used to work in kitchens, my go to knife is a $20 carbon steel copy of a French all purpose farmers knife.
Linky?
     
Phileas
Mac Elite
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Toronto, Canada
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 16, 2010, 11:28 AM
 
Lee Valley Hardware

It's gone up in price a bit. Tang goes all the way to the back of the handle, glued and riveted in with brass rivets. I get it sharpened twice a year by a restaurant service, holds an edge beautifully.



I've got a Grohmann hand forged 10" Chefs knife that cost 20 times as much, but I rarely use it. There's something great about a simple, cheap tool that works well.

( Last edited by Phileas; Jun 16, 2010 at 11:37 AM. )
     
tooki
Admin Emeritus
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Zurich, Switzerland
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 16, 2010, 01:25 PM
 
OK, I'll be the dissenting voice here: I love ceramic knives. The only real reason that my everyday knives are stainless steel is because they don't make really long ceramic ones.

Ceramic stays very sharp for a very long time. But you must respect it, because ceramic does not have the flexibility of metal, it's very brittle. This means:
  • No cutting on ANY hard surfaces. That means absolutely no cutting on metal, glass, stone, or dishes. Always, always, ALWAYS cut on a wood or plastic cutting board. Zero exceptions. If you follow this rule, it will stay sharp for years.
  • No prying or crushing. Don't use it to pry open an oyster or a jar, and don't use it to crush garlic using the side of the blade.
  • Don't cut anything extremely hard. That means not cutting things that are frozen solid, and not cutting bones. (Cutting the cartilage of a chicken is fine.)
  • Don't try to hone* or sharpen it. Honing is bending back the edge of the blade that got bent over. That doesn't happen on ceramic, so honing will do nothing more than damage the blade. If, after many years, it really needs sharpening, call the manufacturer and find out where to send it. A regular knife store cannot do it.
  • Try to never drop it. I've dropped them on linoleum before with no ill effects, but I'm sure they would not survive every fall to my current tile floor.

*In fact, they make ceramic honing "steels" for honing metal knives, because the ceramic is much harder. I own one.
     
Phileas
Mac Elite
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Toronto, Canada
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 16, 2010, 01:47 PM
 
^ All of these are reasons for me not to own one.

I need a tool that works, not something I need to constantly baby
     
finboy
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Garden of Paradise Motel, Suite 3D
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 16, 2010, 02:24 PM
 
Originally Posted by Phileas View Post
Lee Valley Hardware

It's gone up in price a bit. Tang goes all the way to the back of the handle, glued and riveted in with brass rivets. I get it sharpened twice a year by a restaurant service, holds an edge beautifully.
TYVM. I'll keep my eyes open for something similar.
     
Shaddim
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: 46 & 2
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 16, 2010, 09:09 PM
 
There's nothing in the world better for sushi.
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
- Thomas Paine
     
moonmonkey
Professional Poster
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Australia, the greatest country in the world, (Australians keep telling me).
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 17, 2010, 12:35 AM
 
I would avoid ceramics unless it's for specialized tasks.
The feel and weight is wrong for a general purpose knife, and I hate the way they don't glance off finernails the way steel does, ceramics bite in and slice through finernails, so fast vegetable chopping is impossible / v dangerous.
     
Phileas
Mac Elite
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Toronto, Canada
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 17, 2010, 06:54 AM
 
If your fingernails are anywhere near the blade you need to work on your knife skills. When chopping vegetables you use the claw grip, guiding the knife with the first set of knuckles on your fingers.

Your fingernails should be safely tucked away.
     
ShortcutToMoncton
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: The Rock
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 17, 2010, 09:55 AM
 
Originally Posted by Shaddim View Post
There's nothing in the world better for sushi.
Better than what? Ceramic?

Japanese chefs don't use ceramic sushi (sashimi) knives, that I'm aware of.
Mankind's only chance is to harness the power of stupid.
     
OreoCookie  (op)
Moderator
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Hilbert space
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 17, 2010, 10:48 AM
 
Well, Kyocera makes ridiculously expensive ceramic sashimi knives, so I assume some Japanese chefs are using ceramic knives for cutting sashimi.
I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
     
Shaddim
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: 46 & 2
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 17, 2010, 11:23 AM
 
Originally Posted by ShortcutToMoncton View Post
Better than what? Ceramic?

Japanese chefs don't use ceramic sushi (sashimi) knives, that I'm aware of.
The ones I've met do, that's how I learned about ceramic. They slice through fish better than anything else I've ever seen, and I have some decent cutlery (Wusthof, Mercer, etc.). Again, these are slicing knives, I don't use them for chopping.
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
- Thomas Paine
     
ShortcutToMoncton
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: The Rock
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 17, 2010, 01:14 PM
 
Huh.

Yeah, I guess. I dunno. I've only seen steel/carbon in yanagiba knives, but I'm sure they exist. I just can't imagine a working chef putting up with ceramic knives? Seems to me they wouldn't last a month in a work environment.


Either way, I would certainly go steel Oreo. Ceramic is just too much babying, especially for a person/family who doesn't really care about following all the "rules." Sooner or later, someone is going to start hacking away on a dinner plate or drop it on the floor or throw it in a drawer filled with other knives!

greg
Mankind's only chance is to harness the power of stupid.
     
tooki
Admin Emeritus
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Zurich, Switzerland
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 17, 2010, 04:31 PM
 
Originally Posted by ShortcutToMoncton View Post
Better than what? Ceramic?

Japanese chefs don't use ceramic sushi (sashimi) knives, that I'm aware of.
Actually, sushi is one of the reasons the ceramic knife was invented! Supposedly the ceramic doesn’t leave as many metallic ion traces (or something vaguely mumbo-jumboey like that) on the fish. Ostensibly, ceramic doesn’t alter the taste of the fish as much.

And they’re hella, hella sharp.
     
tooki
Admin Emeritus
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Zurich, Switzerland
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 17, 2010, 04:36 PM
 
Originally Posted by Phileas View Post
^ All of these are reasons for me not to own one.

I need a tool that works, not something I need to constantly baby
Well none of the things I listed are good for a regular knife, either! OK, crushing garlic is totally, totally fine with a metal knife. But every single other thing will at minimum dull the blade of a metal knife, vastly accelerating the speed at which you’ll have to sharpen (not just hone) it, or can lead to damage that may not be correctable.

So yes, a metal knife is more forgiving, but only insofar as that it dies a slower death. Most people abuse their knives, which is why they then have dull, dangerous knives that “glance off” things, which is incredibly hazardous. (A dull knife slides around, so it may go places you didn’t intend — such as your finger.)
     
OreoCookie  (op)
Moderator
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Hilbert space
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 18, 2010, 03:04 AM
 
@tooki
What ceramic knifes do you use or have experience with?
I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
     
ShortcutToMoncton
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: The Rock
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 18, 2010, 12:49 PM
 
Originally Posted by tooki View Post
So yes, a metal knife is more forgiving, but only insofar as that it dies a slower death.
Well for me, it's "insofar as you can fix it relatively easily."

You'd have to be doing some serious damage to it in order to really mess up a good knife. Anything else and yes, you might have to spend some time on it, but you can fix an edge. (I recently cracked the tip edge off my MAC... putting it on a stone this weekend.)

For me, it's about usability. $100 will get you a great knife that you can treat relatively poorly and still have it tick away.

As for the sushi thing... huh, I didn't know that. I've never seen a sushi chef with a ceramic knife though. Weird.

greg
Mankind's only chance is to harness the power of stupid.
     
Phileas
Mac Elite
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Toronto, Canada
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 18, 2010, 01:13 PM
 
Yep. My oldest knife, that's still in use, is a 1930's meat slicer. It's been resharpened so many times that the blade is probably about half as wide of what it used to be, but it's a great, sharp knife.

Each to their own with the ceramic knives of course, but for me they look like a solution in search of a problem.
     
moonmonkey
Professional Poster
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Australia, the greatest country in the world, (Australians keep telling me).
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 18, 2010, 10:04 PM
 
Originally Posted by Phileas View Post
If your fingernails are anywhere near the blade you need to work on your knife skills. When chopping vegetables you use the claw grip, guiding the knife with the first set of knuckles on your fingers.

Your fingernails should be safely tucked away.
LOL, thats what they teach you in catering college, that changed very quickly when I started a real job.

FYI Im a Michelin starred chef, both me and my colleagues use our fingernails when chopping.
     
Brien
Professional Poster
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Southern California
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 18, 2010, 10:21 PM
 
Well, like anything else, knife skills are a use it or lose it skill. While I'm pretty good for self-taught, If I had the time I'd find work in a kitchen for the summer.

But yes, go with some good carbon-steel knives.
     
driven
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Atlanta, GA
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 18, 2010, 10:50 PM
 
I don't have any knives that I hate enough to try and sharpen myself. Hone = yes. Sharpen, NO! When needed I get them professionally sharpened.
- MacBook Pro 15" Core i7 2.3Ghz / 256SSD (Work laptop)
- iMac 3.2Ghz 1TB
     
OreoCookie  (op)
Moderator
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Hilbert space
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 19, 2010, 05:53 AM
 
That's what I love about this forum: we have everything from musicians, graphics designers, physicists, physicians, lawyers -- and apparently award-winning chefs
I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
     
moonmonkey
Professional Poster
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Australia, the greatest country in the world, (Australians keep telling me).
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 19, 2010, 06:06 AM
 
i'm an astronaut too, I joined NASA after I got chucked out of delta force because of the publicity caused by my nobel prize nomination.
     
OreoCookie  (op)
Moderator
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Hilbert space
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 19, 2010, 06:28 AM
 
… and there I thought I was the only one
I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
     
Oisín
Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Copenhagen
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 19, 2010, 07:56 AM
 
Originally Posted by moonmonkey View Post
i'm an astronaut too, I joined NASA after I got chucked out of delta force because of the publicity caused by my nobel prize nomination.
And here I thought you were a graphic designer.

Though I guess a graphic designer wouldn’t neglect to update his signature pics when his MobileMe subscription ran out (?), resulting in little blue squares with white question marks in them.
     
moonmonkey
Professional Poster
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Australia, the greatest country in the world, (Australians keep telling me).
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 19, 2010, 08:45 AM
 
Originally Posted by Oisín View Post
And here I thought you were a graphic designer.

Though I guess a graphic designer wouldn’t neglect to update his signature pics when his MobileMe subscription ran out (?), resulting in little blue squares with white question marks in them.
oops.
     
Doofy
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Vacation.
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 19, 2010, 02:09 PM
 
Originally Posted by OreoCookie View Post
That's what I love about this forum: we have everything from musicians, graphics designers, physicists, physicians, lawyers -- and apparently award-winning chefs
And special forces (someone is a retired PJ), and C3P0, and pilots, and navy, and pastors, and Rob.
We have everything here. Except anybody man enough to direct the correct household personnel to the kitchen.
Been inclined to wander... off the beaten track.
That's where there's thunder... and the wind shouts back.
     
Oisín
Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Copenhagen
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 19, 2010, 02:28 PM
 
And special forces (someone is a retired PJ)
Upgraded to nightgown?
     
driven
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Atlanta, GA
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 19, 2010, 06:32 PM
 
Originally Posted by Doofy View Post
And special forces (someone is a retired PJ), and C3P0, and pilots, and navy, and pastors, and Rob.
We have everything here. Except anybody man enough to direct the correct household personnel to the kitchen.
A tribute to the demographic of MacNN?
- MacBook Pro 15" Core i7 2.3Ghz / 256SSD (Work laptop)
- iMac 3.2Ghz 1TB
     
Phileas
Mac Elite
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Toronto, Canada
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 19, 2010, 08:15 PM
 
Here's a pro tip - when working in a restaurant kitchen, never put a knife into sudsy water. Failure to adhere to this rule might result in a pissed (for good reason) dishwasher throwing a knife at you.

Oh, and moonmonkey - would love to know what kitchens you've worked in.
     
moonmonkey
Professional Poster
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Australia, the greatest country in the world, (Australians keep telling me).
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 19, 2010, 09:38 PM
 
I refuse to pander to the demands of someone who's countries most influential export is a guy who can't cook, who hosts his cooking show from a giant mobile toaster.
     
Spheric Harlot
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: 888500128, C3, 2nd soft.
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 19, 2010, 09:57 PM
 
Originally Posted by moonmonkey View Post
I refuse to pander to the demands of someone who's countries most influential export is a guy who can't cook, who hosts his cooking show from a giant mobile toaster.
Are you talking about Germany, Britain, or Canadia?
     
moonmonkey
Professional Poster
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Australia, the greatest country in the world, (Australians keep telling me).
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 19, 2010, 10:11 PM
 
Canadia.
     
tooki
Admin Emeritus
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Zurich, Switzerland
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 20, 2010, 03:13 PM
 
Originally Posted by OreoCookie View Post
@tooki
What ceramic knifes do you use or have experience with?
A roughly 6” mini chef’s knife, i don’t remember the brand. My stepdad got it as a gift something like 15 years ago. It would be sharper if my parents didn’t use it on plates… and it’s still the sharpest knife in their drawer!
     
Shaddim
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: 46 & 2
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 20, 2010, 11:39 PM
 
Originally Posted by Doofy View Post
And special forces (someone is a retired PJ), and C3P0, and pilots, and navy, and pastors, and Rob.
We have everything here. Except anybody man enough to direct the correct household personnel to the kitchen.
Well, I'm a better cook than my womenfolk. Most of the time, I cook and they do dishes. It's a decent arrangement.
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
- Thomas Paine
     
Railroader
Banned
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Indy.
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 21, 2010, 09:41 PM
 
Originally Posted by Shaddim View Post
Well, I'm a better cook than my womenfolk. Most of the time, I cook and they do dishes. It's a decent arrangement.
That's how this house runs too. I make the mess, she cleans it up.
     
Laminar
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Iowa, how long can this be? Does it really ruin the left column spacing?
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 21, 2010, 11:44 PM
 
Dang, I'm usually stuck doing both.
     
Phileas
Mac Elite
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Toronto, Canada
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 22, 2010, 10:31 AM
 
First thing I learned in a kitchen is cleaning up while cooking. That way there's hardly any mess when you're done.
     
driven
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Atlanta, GA
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 22, 2010, 10:39 AM
 
Originally Posted by Phileas View Post
First thing I learned in a kitchen is cleaning up while cooking. That way there's hardly any mess when you're done.
I do that myself. I wish I could impart that wisdom on the rest of my family.
- MacBook Pro 15" Core i7 2.3Ghz / 256SSD (Work laptop)
- iMac 3.2Ghz 1TB
     
Phileas
Mac Elite
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Toronto, Canada
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jun 22, 2010, 10:56 AM
 
That and have your stuff prepped properly.
     
 
Thread Tools
 
Forum Links
Forum Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Top
Privacy Policy
All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:57 PM.
All contents of these forums © 1995-2017 MacNN. All rights reserved.
Branding + Design: www.gesamtbild.com
vBulletin v.3.8.8 © 2000-2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.,