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benb · Jun 25, 2003, 01:23 PM

Originally posted by Mrjinglesusa:
BenB:

I recommend 2 partitions. Panther is PRE-beta software, SYSTEM software at that. I don't think it's anywhere near ready for primetime, hence Apple's "by end-of-year" comment. It seems OK to me, but I haven't done any labor intensive work, just email and web stuff. I simply installed it on my Classic partition of my Jaguar install and boot into it to play as necessary.

Cheers...

Thanks. I know about the pre-beta and all, just wondering if there were any parts completely unusable. Just light email, iTunes, web, and BitTorrent will be all that is done on it. I am up for some excitement. I think I might be daring and go all 10.3. I'll back up for sure onto a FW drive.

conny · Jun 25, 2003, 01:36 PM

Originally posted by - - e r i k - -:
Ask and ye shall receive. You can customize till you drop!

Custom finder

That's exactly what I wanted to see, great! Can you hide the left pane also or only resize it to be smaller?
My understanding is that when you click on a location in the left pane the column starts from there. IS this true or can you still scroll up in the hierarchy the same way as the old finder did, ie just working as shortcuts to specific places.

cacarr1 · Jun 25, 2003, 01:41 PM

Buggy...but usable.

So I hear...

benb · Jun 25, 2003, 02:07 PM

Originally posted by cacarr1:
Buggy...but usable.

Crap, so nothing has changed?

cacarr1 · Jun 25, 2003, 02:20 PM

Originally posted by benb:
Crap, so nothing has changed?

Good one...

Ratm · Jun 25, 2003, 02:47 PM

what about auto startup and shut down.. did they bring that feature back in panther?.

wreks · Jun 25, 2003, 03:18 PM

Can you post a screen of the finder in list view? I noticed they never showed that in the keynote.. and if it's modeled after itunes, I was wondering if there is the alternating blue/white background.

bamburg dunes · Jun 25, 2003, 03:26 PM

i was wondering the same thing too, be nice if list view had the alternate blue/white lines of the iApps.
Also, are the non-column views still in metal?, ie, if you were to have a list view without the toolbar like in 10.2.

Cheers

ckohler · Jun 25, 2003, 03:28 PM

While I doubt it, can you rename files listed in a file open/save sheet?

cacarr1 · Jun 25, 2003, 04:00 PM

Panther's pretty cool...
It is much faster on my machine (see sig). It is also becoming a very refined and robust OS.
However, I would never use this as my primary OS (just for those of you thinking of installing).
Maybe when the builds get to be >7A179.

My two cents

diamondsw · Jun 25, 2003, 04:20 PM

Originally posted by Ratm:
what about auto startup and shut down.. did they bring that feature back in panther?.

Actually, yes, this is back.

But why do you need to shut down anymore?

- - e r i k - - · Jun 25, 2003, 04:49 PM

Originally posted by chris.p:
Using fontbook, does it auto- activate fonts if you have a document that has a font that you dont have activated? or activation on the fly- if you activate a font, will it show in open apps without restarting them? or can you even activate fonts individually, or 'collections' only? thanks for doing this!

Wow. You've all been busy while I've been shopping. I'll try answering all your questions in order.

Auto-activation: No
If you activate fonts you have to re-open the document, not re-launch the app.
Activate fonts individually: Big yes!

- - e r i k - - · Jun 25, 2003, 04:55 PM

Originally posted by benb:
Ok Erik, here's my question. My copy of Panther should have "arrived" by the time I get home from work, and I am contemplating reformatting with 2 patitions, or just going all out Panther. So, is it stable enough for just 10.3 or should I set up 2 partitions, one for Jag an done for Panther? Nothing too critical on this machine, and of course I'll back up my data.

The machine is stable enough for me to have abandoned Jaguar for my PowerBook for now. I'll keep on running Jaguar at work because it is mission-critical. If you make a living out of your computer, do not run Panther exclusively.

I have encountered some possibly showstopping bugs by now:

1) Applications would stop saving files. It just did nothing when selecting Save or Save as. When trying to close the document I got a "Do you want to save? sheet", clicking save closed the document but didn't save it. I do not know what caused it, but I had a weird iDisk-error when I tried logging out that needed to be OKed before I logged out.

2) Text-fields behave erraticly. Sometimes text will disappear (fix: Scroll down, then up) and worse I could not enter my password when I tried logging in after my previous error. Fix: Sleeping and waking up.

Other bugs I've encountered are mere cosmetical ones, like resizing finder-windows fast will make them lose its mask.

- - e r i k - - · Jun 25, 2003, 05:08 PM

Requested screenies

For krypton: Print-sheet

For Sven G: Fax-pane, Fax-sheet

The only new in CD/DVD-burning as far as I can tell is that Disk Copy has been assimilated by Disk Utility and that you can burn images from there. Otherwise it's normal finder and itunes-burning.

Conny: Does this answer your question? Collapsed left-pane

This is done by resizing it to the far left.

Ratm: Yes, indeed! Auto-start and shutdown

I guess that is the aforementioned scheudler

- - e r i k - - · Jun 25, 2003, 05:22 PM

Originally posted by bamburg dunes:
i was wondering the same thing too, be nice if list view had the alternate blue/white lines of the iApps.
Also, are the non-column views still in metal?, ie, if you were to have a list view without the toolbar like in 10.2.

Cheers

This one also goes out to wreks who asked the same things:

List-view - Note the absence of visual labels, only the text-label column shows it. Possibly a bug. No alternate listings.

For reference: Icon-view, Column-view

And yes, if you collapse the toolbars (note that the left-toolbar will also disappear!) it will still be all metal: Hidden toolbars

And just for fun, I didn't notice before now that save-sheets were transparent: Transparent list-view save-sheet

- - e r i k - - · Jun 25, 2003, 05:24 PM

Originally posted by ckohler:
While I doubt it, can you rename files listed in a file open/save sheet?

Sorry no.

However clicking a greyed-out file will replace the filename with that filename, just like Default Folder used to do under 9! Good news indeed

ckohler · Jun 25, 2003, 05:30 PM

Thanks. I can live without the renaming but the feature you mention is another I'm really happy to see.

moofman · Jun 25, 2003, 05:37 PM

I read that if you click the losenge in the top-right in reverts to 10.2 style windows. Any truth to that?

unlinear · Jun 25, 2003, 06:01 PM

Best damn Finder question yet....

DOES IT DEMETALIFIZE?

- - e r i k - - · Jun 25, 2003, 06:08 PM

Originally posted by moofman:
I read that if you click the losenge in the top-right in reverts to 10.2 style windows. Any truth to that?

Nope. This is answered in this screenshot: Hidden toolbars

Finder does not demetallifize. Has anyone found its package contents?

Oddest bug yet. Fast user switching triggers the auto-adjusting brightness mechanism of the PowerBook 17", it's really annoying. I can't access display preferences to turn it off either.

DaGuy · Jun 25, 2003, 06:10 PM

Here's a whacky one, but one never knows...

Does the clipboard copy/paste work between two different users?

If so, then this solves the problem of workspaces!

Thanks,
-FB

PS: how about some screenshots of Xcode?

Alex Duffield · Jun 25, 2003, 06:15 PM

Originally posted by diamondsw:
Actually, yes, this is back. But why do you need to shut down anymore?

YAAA !!! So I can shutdown and restart servers when there is a scheduled power outage at our office building. Something that happens WAY to often!!!

Gametes · Jun 25, 2003, 06:18 PM

Quit finder?

Instead of restart finder? Does this mean Apple finally really meant that you could replace the Finder if you wanted to?
Is it Cocoa? Is it in the login items? Can you move its icon in the Dock?

- - e r i k - - · Jun 25, 2003, 06:19 PM

Originally posted by DaGuy:
Here's a whacky one, but one never knows...

Does the clipboard copy/paste work between two different users?

No it doesn't, and if it would it would kind of nullify the concept of multiple users wouldn't it? Users, not workspaces!

Although I'm sure a third party would be quick to whip up a shared-clipboard utility.

As for X-code, it didn't get installed. The developer's tools might have been unchecked by default (or Xcode simply isn't included in this build)

- - e r i k - - · Jun 25, 2003, 06:21 PM

Originally posted by Gametes:
Quit finder?

Instead of restart finder? Does this mean Apple finally really meant that you could replace the Finder if you wanted to?
Is it Cocoa? Is it in the login items? Can you move its icon in the Dock?

You could add a quit finder menu item in the old finder as well. After all finder is just another app.

I believe Finder is cocoa now, although as I'm sure you know, it really doesn't matter does it?

No, finder is not in login items. It's always launched first no matter what.

lookmark · Jun 25, 2003, 06:24 PM

Originally posted by - - e r i k - -:
Sorry no.

However clicking a greyed-out file will replace the filename with that filename, just like Default Folder used to do under 9! Good news indeed

Great Scott, I've been requesting this for over two years now.

You mean that clicking a greyed-out filename in the Save dialog list/column view will place that filename into the save text field, right?

Please say yes.

- - e r i k - - · Jun 25, 2003, 06:27 PM

Originally posted by lookmark:
Great Scott, I've been requesting this for over two years now.

You mean that clicking a greyed-out filename in the Save dialog list/column view will place that filename into the save text field, right?

Please say yes.

Yes.

(Double-checking)

Yes. Even folder names.

conny · Jun 25, 2003, 06:36 PM

Is there anything new in view options? Command+J to bring it up in the Finder, or "View -> Show View Options". Can you take a screenshot of it (only if there is something new in it)?

Thanks for all great screenshots, answers a lot of my questions and calms my curiosity. Now we just have to wait 6 more months before they actually ship it...

Scandinavian rules!

lookmark · Jun 25, 2003, 06:38 PM

Yaaaaaaaaahhhhooooooooooooo!

clarkgoble · Jun 25, 2003, 06:42 PM

I noticed in your screenshot of the Finder's "action" button that folder actions aren't listed. Are they listed when you click on a folder? If so what exactly are folder actions. Are they basically the applescript folder actions we have? Or something else?

(I'm going here by some screen shots pre-WWDC that had some extra elemnets in the menu)

lookmark · Jun 25, 2003, 06:45 PM

Yeah, thanks for everything. Your details have been absolutely great.

Sigh. It's going to be a long summer, OS-wise. I'm hoping for late Sept.

- - e r i k - - · Jun 25, 2003, 06:52 PM

Originally posted by clarkgoble:
I noticed in your screenshot of the Finder's "action" button that folder actions aren't listed. Are they listed when you click on a folder? If so what exactly are folder actions. Are they basically the applescript folder actions we have? Or something else?

(I'm going here by some screen shots pre-WWDC that had some extra elemnets in the menu)

You need to enable folder actions. They are located in the contextual menu. AppleScript folder actions as before.

- - e r i k - - · Jun 25, 2003, 06:54 PM

Originally posted by conny:
Is there anything new in view options? Command+J to bring it up in the Finder, or "View -> Show View Options". Can you take a screenshot of it (only if there is something new in it)?

Nothing new here afaict.

Scandinavia does indeed rule, even though norway has an insane alcohol-politic and prices.

I'm off to bed now in my time-zone. But I'll be happy to come back to answer your questions tomorrow.

Good night now!

bacchus · Jun 25, 2003, 07:29 PM

If anyone has anymore requests for screen shots, i'd be glad to continue the process in here...

Ask and ye shall receive.

bacchus · Jun 25, 2003, 07:36 PM

I'd also like to add that Panther, while of course not appropriate for mission critical work, seems more than usable as at least a part-time OS.

It's quick, feels fairly stable and is running all my apps ( Gyazmail, Proteus, Omnigraffle, Photoshop 7, Illustrator 10 ) from the last two days without a hiccup.

I've said it in another thread but to actually see Expose in action is a thing of beauty. Without the MS drivers Expose was still capable of utilizing all 5 buttons on my Intellimouse Explorer, and after using it for 2 days I can't imagine life without it.

If anyone has apps and how they operate under Panther, let me know and I can fire some more stuff up.

gthyb · Jun 25, 2003, 07:46 PM

did you guys reformat, or just install over jag?

i'm still backingup/decided what to do before i install.

lookmark · Jun 25, 2003, 08:37 PM

Hey, bacchus, could I see a screenshot of TextEdit's new Styles?

If there's anything else new in TextEdit, throw it in too.

benb · Jun 25, 2003, 09:11 PM

Originally posted by bacchus:
I've said it in another thread but to actually see Expose in action is a thing of beauty. Without the MS drivers Expose was still capable of utilizing all 5 buttons on my Intellimouse Explorer, and after using it for 2 days I can't imagine life without it.

If anyone has apps and how they operate under Panther, let me know and I can fire some more stuff up.

I'll second that. It is stable for the most part. There are odd screen drawing bugs and the like, but the benefits more than outweigh the bugs for me at home. At work, I'm sticking with Jaguar.

Expos� is awesome. I mean awesome. Finder FTP actually works. SMB does not cause the beachball or a KP when the server disconnects. New mail is nice. I like the new aqua, and the Finder is alright metal because of the new speed and features. I wish it was Aqua though.

Apps I haven't gotten to work so far:
Camino (I like it better than Safari, so this sucks)
mlMac (not too bad, thats why I got BitTorrent)

Chess is not inculded in this version. That's aight though, it was way too hard.

benb · Jun 25, 2003, 09:13 PM

Originally posted by gthyb:
did you guys reformat, or just install over jag?

i'm still backingup/decided what to do before i install.

I backed up and reformatted and installed. When you format, Journald HFS+ is now an option.

DaGuy · Jun 25, 2003, 09:42 PM

Many thaks Erik. Great community service you are doing here.

jguidroz · Jun 25, 2003, 10:00 PM

Just finished installing Panther DP. I just have to say that Apple is really doing a great job with it. You can configure IPv6 in the network pane. There is now a renew DHCP lease button. You can set the speed of your ethernet port, duplex, and MTU. Aqua looks a lot better. Apple is using separators a lot throughout the OS.

This update will be really sweet. Oh, and I'm using this on a B&W G3/300 with 256MB of ram. It runs good.

wreks · Jun 25, 2003, 10:13 PM

Originally posted by - - e r i k - -:
This one also goes out to wreks...

erik, thanks for all the screen shots.. now I don't have to bother with the hassle that is carracho..

Superchicken · Jun 25, 2003, 10:44 PM

how's it work in classic

what's the responce like on an old G3?

Cory Bauer · Jun 25, 2003, 10:46 PM

This is a great thread!! Thanks for all of the screenshots and information! Panther looks to be very, very cool. Lots of improvements and refinements, that's for sure. Hmm...I can't think of an questions that haven't already been answered here, so I guess all I have to say is thanks!

Nathan Adams · Jun 25, 2003, 11:11 PM

Originally posted by - - e r i k - -:
Nope. This is answered in this screenshot: Hidden toolbars

Finder does not demetallifize. Has anyone found its package contents?

Oddest bug yet. Fast user switching triggers the auto-adjusting brightness mechanism of the PowerBook 17", it's really annoying. I can't access display preferences to turn it off either.

collapsed toolbars looks ok now...
my main issue about using metal (besides not being correct), is that big chunky border around the finder windows. collapsing makes it more like safari - I can live with that.
It's actually a lot like OS 9's Finder that way

galarneau · Jun 26, 2003, 12:04 AM

Originally posted by jguidroz:
This update will be really sweet. Oh, and I'm using this on a B&W G3/300 with 256MB of ram. It runs good.

Yes, how does it run compared to 10.2? Faster? Slower for any particular thing? Details for us with older hardware, please.

Michael_Jackson · Jun 26, 2003, 12:42 AM

is it just me, or is OSX slowly starting to resemble Platinum?

(note: i rather liked platinum, so i'm not trying to criticize the interface)

krove · Jun 26, 2003, 12:55 AM

Question:
Does the print pane support by default (in any app) printing only odd or even pages?

Certain apps augment the print sheet with this, but I want to know if the default Apple print sheet offers this feature for those of us without duplexing units on our printers.

Brazuca · Jun 26, 2003, 01:01 AM

Expose and Fast User Switching run smooth as butter on my old g4/400 448ram, but I have Radeon 8500 in it to use Quartz Extreme.

Panther also scrolls very smoothly throughout the system.

Oh...there is NO DELAY for Expose, at all.
It is basically immediate. Fantastic!!

lookmark · Jun 26, 2003, 01:13 AM

A screenshot of TextEdit, with Styles, please?

Thanks,