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fortepianissimo · Jul 19, 2003, 07:45 PM

Tried WebKiosk and just loved it - even for personal use it's quite nice: now I can read things like a pure paper page (with no window frame, title bar etc).

I did find some bugs though - in 1.4 whenever I clicked through more than 2-3 links in one session, the app complained about not being able to find the link (although the link is perfectly fine) and then reverted to the initial URL.

Also a feature request: would be nice if some key shortcuts are retained from Safari or Camino: like the ones for backward/forward.

Finally - would you mind registering your app in MacUpdate.com as well? They provide free notification service so I can download the latest version whenever you roll out one.

Thilo Ettelt · Jul 20, 2003, 01:54 PM

Originally posted by waffffffle:
I've been trying to create a real mp3 jukebox now for a while but my project has never gotten off the ground for a number of reasons, the foremost being that I have never worked out all the software issues and therefore couldn't get funding for the hardware.

This is what my jukebox needs (these are requirements given to me by the people that want me to do this project for them):

It must present a graphical interface to browsing a collection of music by artist an album.

Users need to be able to navigate to a specific song that they want to be played and select it.

When songs are selected they must be added to the end of the currently playing playlist.

Users cannot have the ability to modify the current playlist, and most importantly they can't stop the music in any way.

There needs to be ways to prevent one user from flooding the playlist with "their songs." I was thinking this could be helped by slowing down the process of selecting songs by immediately sending a user back to the top level directory after they select a song so they can't select a whole album's worth of songs one after another. Also some sort of restrictions on not being able to play more than one song from the same artist or album within a certain time limit would be very helpful.

This project is needed to replace a physical CD jukebox in a bar-like area. The jukebox has been broken for a year and it is really bothering people. The jukebox is free for users to play songs on.

As for the hardware I would like to use either a joystick or touchscreen because if we had a mouse or keyboard present they would quickly be broken or have beer spilled on them by drunken college students. However a touch screen solution is extremely expensive and even a Mac-based solution is expensive in general compared to doing a similar project with a PC. Also Winamp has the very nice feature of setting it so that newly opened songs are added to the end of the current playlist. That would work nicely to have a browser window open with winamp running in the background playing songs. I was making the interface PHP based so that it can look good and be updated with new songs easily (it would dynamically create the artist and album listings based on what music was available.

However if someone could create a complete solution for this (read: one application) I would be extremely grateful. However I would hope that it could accept keyboard input so that I can use a cheap joystick of some kind and map the buttons to keystrokes. Right now no webkit-based browsers have decent keyboard navigation (although I've seen google.com has this great beta of keyboard control that's embedded within the content of the page).

I have started a new project called "Jukebox" now. It has a fairly simple interface which is being controlled with only 5 buttons (left, right, up, down, action). I'm having some minor problems right now, but in general it's easier to make than I expected.

- Thilo

JLFanboy · Jul 20, 2003, 05:02 PM

However if someone could create a complete solution for this (read: one application) I would be extremely grateful. However I would hope that it could accept keyboard input so that I can use a cheap joystick of some kind and map the buttons to keystrokes.

Just a thought, but why not get a Griffin Powermate. It's a great little device and would allow for some really simple, iPod-like navigation of the interface. Or maybe a Contour Design Shuttle Xpress. It's got the same jogwheel as the Powermate but has assignable buttons as well.

Hope that allows for some good ideas.

iFix Rene · Jul 21, 2003, 09:41 AM

I like Veli a lot

can you make this first on your list? :

remembering browserwindow size so that
all new window opens in specified size that
one resized the window to.

waffffffle · Jul 21, 2003, 12:26 PM

Originally posted by JLFanboy:
Just a thought, but why not get a Griffin Powermate. It's a great little device and would allow for some really simple, iPod-like navigation of the interface. Or maybe a Contour Design Shuttle Xpress. It's got the same jogwheel as the Powermate but has assignable buttons as well.

Hope that allows for some good ideas.

The Powermate idea seems cool but I know that it won't fly in the environment where I need to put this thing. A Powermate is expensive for an input device and I just know that some drunk kid is going to break the thing off the wall at some point. If "Jukebox" includes support for it then I'd consider trying it out if we end up using it. However I would prefer keyboard input simply because it is easy to map things to key strokes.

Originally posted by Thilo:
I have started a new project called "Jukebox" now. It has a fairly simple interface which is being controlled with only 5 buttons (left, right, up, down, action). I'm having some minor problems right now, but in general it's easier to make than I expected.

Thank you Thilo for taking on this idea. I am very excited that someone has decided to create this kind of software. I have been looking for this sort of solution for a long time. I don't want to burden you but I have some more ideas for Jukebox:

I think it could be cool if the music navigation would show album cover art. There are a number of ways to go about doing this. One idea is to take an existing program that does this already and use it's artwork library as the source for the cover art (like Sofa, or something similar).

I also was thinking of having Sofa running at all times so when the currently playing song changes a cool animation is displayed to show the new cover art. However if something like this could be built right into jukebox that would be cooler. Also it would be great if Jukebox could display a logo, or even better if it could have a skinnable interface of some kind so that it can be customized to match it's surroundings.

JLFanboy · Jul 21, 2003, 01:33 PM

The Powermate idea seems cool but I know that it won't fly in the environment where I need to put this thing. A Powermate is expensive for an input device and I just know that some drunk kid is going to break the thing off the wall at some point. If "Jukebox" includes support for it then I'd consider trying it out if we end up using it. However I would prefer keyboard input simply because it is easy to map things to key strokes.

The great thing about the Powermate and the Shuttle Xpress is that all of their actions can be directly translated into keystrokes. Also, they work with any app, as long as an app accepts keystrokes. The Xpress sounds a little more like what you want. It's flatter for one things and would be harder to break off the wall. Also it's buttons and dual jogwheels are much more programmable than the Powermates 5(?) functions.

cenutrio · Jul 21, 2003, 02:40 PM

It is faster than explorer.....I can tell you that!

Keep the good work

Thilo Ettelt · Jul 23, 2003, 07:27 AM

Originally posted by waffffffle:
The Powermate idea seems cool but I know that it won't fly in the environment where I need to put this thing. A Powermate is expensive for an input device and I just know that some drunk kid is going to break the thing off the wall at some point. If "Jukebox" includes support for it then I'd consider trying it out if we end up using it. However I would prefer keyboard input simply because it is easy to map things to key strokes.

Thank you Thilo for taking on this idea. I am very excited that someone has decided to create this kind of software. I have been looking for this sort of solution for a long time. I don't want to burden you but I have some more ideas for Jukebox:

I think it could be cool if the music navigation would show album cover art. There are a number of ways to go about doing this. One idea is to take an existing program that does this already and use it's artwork library as the source for the cover art (like Sofa, or something similar).

I also was thinking of having Sofa running at all times so when the currently playing song changes a cool animation is displayed to show the new cover art. However if something like this could be built right into jukebox that would be cooler. Also it would be great if Jukebox could display a logo, or even better if it could have a skinnable interface of some kind so that it can be customized to match it's surroundings.

Btw, this is the official Jukebox Thread!

- Thilo

Thilo Ettelt · 07:25 AM

Ladies and gentlemen,

I'm proud to present a sneak preview for WebKiosk 1.5:

Version 1.5 (Alpha so far)

- new: Tabbed browsing (double-click a tab to close it; will add a button for the final version)
- broken: buttons, progress bar
- new: will open pop-ups in a new tab
- fix: no longer possible to access the settings without a password
- not yet implemented:
- close button for the selected tab
- option to select tab after creation or not
- ...

Get it here: http://www.itoast.de/webkiosk1.5alpha.sit

Edit: Now the build actually works (I have updated the file, there was a bug which prevented it from launching).

- Thilo

Alex Duffield · Jul 27, 2003, 12:49 PM

It would be great if this could be made to go full screen. There are no browsers available for OSX that can be used for Kiosks.

Thanks.

Thilo Ettelt · Jul 27, 2003, 01:13 PM

Originally posted by Alex Duffield:
It would be great if this could be made to go full screen. There are no browsers available for OSX that can be used for Kiosks.

Thanks.

Hi, WebKiosk is a full-screen kiosk software. Veli, though, is a normal webbrowser. Maybe I should open a separate WebKiosk thread.

- Thilo

Thilo Ettelt · Jul 27, 2003, 01:40 PM

Ladies and Gentlemen (again...),

today is such a productive day

Here is version 1.5 alpha 2 with the following specifications:

new: tabbed browsing
- will open popups and new window in new tabs
- cmd-click opens link in a new tab
- option to enable doubleclick tab closing
- option to enable selection of tab after its creation
- new tab button
- close tab button
fix: no longer possible to access the settings without a password
fix, new: when idling, all opened tabs will be closed, leaves one open to load the homepage (fixes a bug which was enabling idle even though the user deactivated it)
fix: error message no longer appears when clicking on a link while the current website is still loading

- Thilo

JLL · Jul 27, 2003, 01:53 PM

Originally posted by Alex Duffield:
It would be great if this could be made to go full screen. There are no browsers available for OSX that can be used for Kiosks.

Thanks.

WebKiosk (as mentioned), wKiosk and Opera can go full screen.

Adam Betts · Jul 27, 2003, 01:59 PM

Why not merge both Veli and WebKiosk?

headbirth · Jul 27, 2003, 02:35 PM

Why don't you make it totally different ... add a randomize button.

Krypton · Jul 27, 2003, 04:24 PM

Originally posted by Thilo Ettelt:
Ladies and Gentlemen (again...),

today is such a productive day

Here is version 1.5 alpha 2 with the following specifications:

new: tabbed browsing
- will open popups and new window in new tabs
- cmd-click opens link in a new tab
- option to enable doubleclick tab closing
- option to enable selection of tab after its creation
- new tab button
- close tab button

fix: no longer possible to access the settings without a password

fix, new: when idling, all opened tabs will be closed, leaves one open to load the homepage (fixes a bug which was enabling idle even though the user deactivated it)

fix: error message no longer appears when clicking on a link while the current website is still loading

- Thilo

Nice improvements, however those tabs are pretty ugly

, why not use standard tabs? (Plus I preferred the aqua blob buttons rather than those squarish ones.)

Thilo Ettelt · Jul 27, 2003, 04:32 PM

Originally posted by headbirth:
Why don't you make it totally different ... add a randomize button.

- Thilo

PS: Anyone wanna design some nice tabs? I need a body, a left and a right side. The body must be strechable in the width.

Thilo Ettelt · Jul 27, 2003, 04:37 PM

Originally posted by Adam Betts:
Why not merge both Veli and WebKiosk?

In a sense they are already. They are sharing the same technologies and I will implement the tabs into Veli quite soon. But I will keep them as independent apps. However I think I will keep the thread merged

Cheers, Thilo

Developer · Jul 27, 2003, 04:38 PM

Originally posted by Thilo Ettelt:
Anyone wanna design some nice tabs?

The tabs look nice already. Simple elegance - I love it.

Can you add resolution switching? Browsing spiegel.de there is a lot of white space on the right. It would be ideal to switch to 800x600 for it.

Thilo Ettelt · Jul 27, 2003, 05:03 PM

Originally posted by Developer:
The tabs look nice already. Simple elegance - I love it.

Can you add resolution switching? Browsing spiegel.de there is a lot of white space on the right. It would be ideal to switch to 800x600 for it.

How? Like: choosing a resolution in the settings and then switching to it when the browser window opens?

- Thilo

Developer · Jul 27, 2003, 05:51 PM

Originally posted by Thilo Ettelt:
How? Like: choosing a resolution in the settings and then switching to it when the browser window opens?

Yes, exactly.

Thinine · 02:28 AM

One other feature request: a logout button. This would totally rock in my lab so we could have a guest user for just web access. On login it would just launch WebKiosk and the user would logout when done.

EDIT: A few other things after messing around with it for a little bit. First, your security rocks. Haven't found a way to bypass it. I thought I'd be able to force quit it but no. Second, can you make the toolbar permanent? Or did I just miss that option? Third, a better toolbar. I know it's early in development but I think a customizable toolbar would rock. You know, with cool icons and multiple sizes.

Keep up the good work.

Thilo Ettelt · Jul 28, 2003, 07:06 AM

Originally posted by Thinine:
One other feature request: a logout button. This would totally rock in my lab so we could have a guest user for just web access. On login it would just launch WebKiosk and the user would logout when done.
Keep up the good work.

It's already there. There is an option to disable the settings panel at launch as well as a setting that enables log out on quit. Which means when you hit the quit button the password window will be avoided and the complete user logs out.

- Thilo

Thinine · Jul 28, 2003, 05:14 PM

I see the option, but it didn't work for me. And I'm talking about a toolbar button which says 'Quit' or 'Logout' so the user knows what to do. I never saw either of these buttons when I used it. A print button would be useful as well. Also, a dialog saying 'Downloads not allowed' or something like that would be nice when someone clicks a download link. Finally, a bookmark bar would be nice too.

Still very cool, and it works with PDF Browser Plugin too.

Thilo Ettelt · Jul 31, 2003, 11:49 AM

Originally posted by Thinine:
I see the option, but it didn't work for me. And I'm talking about a toolbar button which says 'Quit' or 'Logout' so the user knows what to do. I never saw either of these buttons when I used it. A print button would be useful as well. Also, a dialog saying 'Downloads not allowed' or something like that would be nice when someone clicks a download link. Finally, a bookmark bar would be nice too.

Still very cool, and it works with PDF Browser Plugin too.

Version 1.6 is out with the following release notes:

- tabs
- fix: won't crash when openening dozens of tabs
- fix: limited amount of tabs
- new: option to return to homepage when closing last tab
- fix: progress indicator for every tab
- new: option to disable the tabs completely (will remove the tabs and display a progress bar)
- features
- fix: "log out on quit" feature works again when enabled (and saves the setting)
- new: option to open popups in new (floating) windows
- new: option whether to use a metal window as browser window
- new: setup the printer in the settings
- new: option to disable the print panel
- user interface
- fix: printer buttons aligns properly with disabled quit button
- fix: no dragging when metallized (e.g. by 3rd party apps)
- new: toolbar buttons feature tooltips now
- new: set background color for the logo windows (multiple screens; not tested yet)

~ Thilo

iFix Rene · Aug 8, 2003, 01:26 PM

i thought this was the Veli thread
but all that gets announced is WebKiosk

is there a new Veli yet?

Thilo Ettelt · Aug 10, 2003, 08:13 AM

Originally posted by iFix Rene:
i thought this was the Veli thread
but all that gets announced is WebKiosk

is there a new Veli yet?

Sorry, I'm really busy with WebKiosk right now. But I will continue the Veli development sometime. Unfortunetely some things aren't working properly yet in WebKit anyway...

- Thilo