[t500]

I went into the local Apple Store today to purchase a new Macbook Pro and I walked in on all the apple store employees pondering over an email (Printed out). After about 20 seconds they started to clap and pat each other on the back. I started chatting with the salesmen and asked was all the excitement about, his reply was " we don't need to push Microsoft office anymore. Five minutes ago I would have had to try to sell you office when you buy a Mac, but not anymore.”

Guess they will be pushing I life? Coud this be part of the Office 08 delay??? Hummm

[Sethro]

Seems kind of odd that the Apple employees started clapping, they must really like Mac only stuff!

But yeah it makes sense, with the new iWork out many people should really stop buying Microsoft Office, and considering that Apple is selling Intel only Macs now, it makes sense to wait for a Universal Binary MS Office.

[64stang06]

I think Office is still needed, mainly by schools and business which need the compatibility with PC's. But again, with the MacBU dropping VBScript from Office 2008, one begins to wonder how compatible it will be...

[Sethro]

Well for now I really like iWork 08 its has everything that I need for University.

- A simple and sophisticated work processing application
- A much better and more sophisticated presentation application which blows Powerpoint out of the water.
- Numbers, which provides me with the spreadsheet application which is easy to use and looks great too.

Microsoft Office is a welcome addition, but its far too late for students and academics attending University in September.

[TheoCryst]

This is an interesting development. I wouldn't be surprised if this is an early indicator of a breakdown in the relationship between Apple and Microsoft. Things are going to get interesting.

And yes, I feel that iWork is more than adequate for the average Apple user. Office still has its place, but it is less necessary than before.

[analogika]

The majority of people switching away from Windows are, in their minds switching away from *Microsoft*, and it pains them to have to spend money on a Microsoft product.

The new iWork is a Good Thing™, and it was pretty obvious that it would come as soon as Microsoft had officially committed to MS Office for the Mac for another five years - and inevitable after they stabbed that in the back by announcing the dropping of VBScript for the next version.

[pcryan5]

Seriously now Apple - in the corporate world Numbers challenging Excel? Entourage challenging Outlook? The idea is laughable.
iWork's threat to MS Office is simply too small to measure .... I wish it was not so...

[analogika]

a) Entourage is MICROSOFT'S Mac offering.

b) Nobody is talking about the corporate scale. MS Office's undoing on the corporate level will be platform-independent network-based applications.

[pcryan5]

<<>>b) Nobody is talking about the corporate scale. MS Office's undoing on the corporate level will be platform-independent network-based applications.

I just wish the development collaboration between MS and Apple would grow not lessen. Its very hard to get Macs into the corporation - I find the existence of Office Mac is of real value in that area.

[analogika]

This will change as corporate focus shifts away from Office over time.

And it will.

[MacosNerd]

Originally Posted by analogika 

This will change as corporate focus shifts away from Office over time.

And it will.

No it won't. I know too many accountants that rely heavily on excel. there's 0 chance they'll want to change. Its a proven commodity. What else is the finance world is going to use, open source? The cost of office matters little to a lot of businessmen, they care more that the product does what its advertised to do and like it or not. Word, Excel, and Outlook do this extremely well.

I've worked in IT supporting Finance too long to know that it will be a cold day in hell before you see them change over to something else.

[pcryan5]

Our IT team supports 27,500 users which means our cost for Office/Windows is close to nothing. For us cost is just not a factor at all. Microsoft Office is here for a long time. Do I wish it was otherwise? Sure. But then I still miss XYWrite and Quattro Pro...

[mpancha]

I think its a shame that the employees clapped at the announcement.

Instead of pushing a product that is better for the individual user, they will just push out Apple products... not all of which are great, and not all of which are good for all purposes. Like it or not, that's just how it is.

I have iWork 08, I've tried to use only it for the past week, but its simply not doable. I love the improvements it has over Excel (the way formatting is not locked down to the entire sheet, but just to the one table, new formula options), but end of the day, I can do more quickly with Excel. Its what I grew up using, and I don't have the time to sit down and learn a "new" spreadsheet application and transition to it.

My time is worth more than the few hundred I'd spend on Office. On the other hand, for my mom who is not too techno savvy, iWork is great for her. Same for my dad. My brothers... not so much.

[analogika]

Office is NOT "better for the individual user".

The "individual" (read: home) user is a lot better off with anything BUT the behemoth that is MS Office.

It is better for you because it is what you are used to, the same way Windows is better for the people who walk into my store to take their first look at an iMac because that is what they are...oh wait.

I get what you're saying, but the vast majority of us don't write Excel worksheets that often. I, for one, took one look at Excel, and didn't bother again.

And btw, Microsoft Word stopped being "good", let alone "better", let alone "better for the individual user" just after Word 5.1a for Macintosh.

Ever since Word 6, quality, usability, interface, or functionality have not ever been sales arguments for Office.

Office today is almost 100% about compatibility, and the rest about habit - nothing else.

[mpancha]

analogika >> you interpreted "individual user" as "home user". I meant it as "individual user". Each person has their own needs, a sales rep from any company should try and satisfy each individual customer's needs, not their own personal preference.

For you, obviously, MS Office isn't the way to go. If I were a sales rep I would ask "what kind of work do you do?", and ask a few more questions, and with that information suggest whats best. Who knows, maybe Open Office is a better option, not iWork or MS Office... it all depends on the individual user, and that's how Apple sales reps should go about their jobs.

Clapping b/c they don't have to try and upsell MS Office, just lame IMO. ANd of course.. that is MY opinion

[analogika]

I meant "individual user" as "vast majority of people actually BUYING Macs" in my experience - home users.

If your employer asks you to upsell to a product that you definitely see a good two-thirds of your customers simply NOT NEEDING or being better off without, then not being forced to sell customers bloated crap they don't need more than warrants applause.

The only reason I still work at the retail store I'm at is because we have no sales provisions and our store manager is relaxed enough to realize that the customer who walks out feeling that they've got *exactly* what they need is worth a lot more than one who realizes a little later that he's just been had.

When that happens to me, I simply avoid the store in the future.

I have the freedom to realistically assess what a customer needs, and NOT sell them Office if I think they're better off with Pages and Numbers. If I couldn't do that, I'd work a different job.

[mpancha]

Originally Posted by analogika 

I meant "individual user" as "vast majority of people actually BUYING Macs"

Right... but that's not what "individual user" means. You can't choose a definition and then go on about it. As the original person who brought up "individual user", I know what I meant by it. The context of what I say changes if you choose a definition that you like, as opposed to what the definition actually is.

I have the freedom to realistically assess what a customer needs, and NOT sell them Office if I think they're better off with Pages and Numbers. If I couldn't do that, I'd work a different job.

Sadly, you'd be surprised how many Apple sales reps can't do just that, and should work different jobs. I've been to more than my share of Apple stores, and so far there has only been one (Barton Creek Mall Apple Store, Austin, TX - USA) that actually guaged what he thought would best suit me based on what information I gave him.

[analogika]

Originally Posted by mpancha 

Right... but that's not what "individual user" means. You can't choose a definition and then go on about it. As the original person who brought up "individual user", I know what I meant by it. The context of what I say changes if you choose a definition that you like, as opposed to what the definition actually is.

Well, it's nice of you to clarify.

I took "individual" to mean "individual", as in, "ALL of us Mac users", the most obvious generalization of which is "the majority", and that, based on personal experience hawking the damn things.

Originally Posted by mpancha 

Sadly, you'd be surprised how many Apple sales reps can't do just that, and should work different jobs. I've been to more than my share of Apple stores, and so far there has only been one (Barton Creek Mall Apple Store, Austin, TX - USA) that actually guaged what he thought would best suit me based on what information I gave him.

I'm not surprised at all. And I'm not saying that they should work different jobs.

I'm saying I would.

And if you can't or don't trust your dealer, I suggest letting them know and changing dealers.

[boanerges]

Are the various functions of iWorks compatible with MS Office? Could I share texts, spreadsheets, presentations, etc. with Office users, with Wintel machines?

I have had difficulties sharing documents from NeoOffice with Wintel users. Can iWorks be better?

JV

[analogika]

I believe the politically correct term is "differently abled".

[auxlepli]

I'm very happy to hear Apple stores will not be pushing Office.
There are always alternatives - either open source or Apple.