[MacosNerd]

And that's also what I said, i.e., trying to make the other text larger doesn't work.

What's with the attitude, all I said was I liked the resolution that apple is providing. a higher resolution is not workable for me. sheesh

[C.A.T.S. CEO]

Originally Posted by Ado 

3 biggest peeves-

1) MP rubbish gfx for 3D

Sure. 4 cards max must really suck.

2) MBP cases are 6 years old and done to death. Even pc laptops have immited and moved on....
.....uninspiring apple.

Why get rid of the sexy look? The look is also made to match the look of the MP and cinema displays.

Troll.

[dmcnickle]

I just talked to apple and the guy I talked to said the new LED backlight is only in the original matte and not available with the glossy display. This is different than the website. Does anyone know anything else about this?

[Commodus]

I don't think you really need the glossy display if you go the LED route - it brightens the display and the colors on its own. That and you don't really need the glare.

[SEkker]

Looks like a nice update - the latest processor, screens, video and wifi.

The lack of a new form factor is also good - and to be expected. Apple has had to try different hinge designs, latches, power connectors until they have the current which works pretty well.

For those interested in a model with a new form factor (i.e. a 3 lb subnotebook, etc), that will have to wait until after the next couple iPhones launch. Steve J and J Ives are focusing their efforts on the new product lines. The good news is the touch technology they are using in the iPhone will make a fantastic tablet form factor down the road.

[mduell]

Originally Posted by C.A.T.S. CEO 

Sure. 4 cards max must really suck.

When they're all last-generation options with year old prices? Yes, it really does suck.

[P]

Originally Posted by mduell 

<The new 8600M GT GPU>

Who wants to bet it's underclocked by more than 10%?

Traditionally, when Apple underclocks a GPU they just write the number without the last qualifier - the last model had an X1600 GPU, without a Pro or XT at the end - and sometimes add "series GPU", as in "Radeon 9600 Series GPU". This one has an 8600M GT, exactly like that. This is of course no guarantee, but I think that they would have written "8600 GT series GPU" if they had underclocked it. It's borderline false advertising otherwise.

[P]

Originally Posted by mduell 

Also no eSATA, or high def optical, or HDMI, or flash memory, or WWAN... and the list goes on.

I'll give you most of those, but eSATA is at least easy to add.

[MacosNerd]

So does this new MBP have the Santa Rosa chip set or not?

Some say no, one said yes (because of the 800mhz fsb). No word seemingly on the apple site.

[brokenjago]

Yes, it does. Only Santa Rosa chips are available in 2.2 and 2.4Ghz variants. It is 100% Santa Rosa.

[MacosNerd]

Kewl thanks

Of course timing is everything I just got my new American Express Blue credit card with a nice hefty credit limit grrrrr I don't need this temptation

[NeutrinoMan]

Originally Posted by dmcnickle 

I just talked to apple and the guy I talked to said the new LED backlight is only in the original matte and not available with the glossy display. This is different than the website. Does anyone know anything else about this?

I just phoned Apple, and this is a load of bull. BOTH the matte and glossy 15" macbook pros ship with LED backlighting.

I shall now order mine! Glossy please, waiter!

[mduell]

Originally Posted by P 

Traditionally, when Apple underclocks a GPU they just write the number without the last qualifier - the last model had an X1600 GPU, without a Pro or XT at the end - and sometimes add "series GPU", as in "Radeon 9600 Series GPU". This one has an 8600M GT, exactly like that. This is of course no guarantee, but I think that they would have written "8600 GT series GPU" if they had underclocked it. It's borderline false advertising otherwise.

IIRC the PowerMacs/Mac Pros have underclocked cards yet retain their performance level indication, as well as some of the G5 iMacs (9600Pro/X600 Pro, but they were mobile cards? I'll have to check on this). The previous MacBook Pro was advertised as X1600 graphics processor, while being below the nominal clockrate for X1600 (with no performance level indication) per ATi.

Originally Posted by P 

I'll give you most of those, but eSATA is at least easy to add.

Conflicts with adding WWAN, another piece of crap to carry around, and yow $130 (my SATA PC Card was $25!). The next generation of mobile chipsets from Intel should add native eSATA support, so Apple wouldn't even need to add another chip for it.

Originally Posted by MacosNerd 

So does this new MBP have the Santa Rosa chip set or not?

Some say no, one said yes (because of the 800mhz fsb). No word seemingly on the apple site.

Originally Posted by brokenjago 

Yes, it does. Only Santa Rosa chips are available in 2.2 and 2.4Ghz variants. It is 100% Santa Rosa.

Until someone buys one and tells us what wifi card is inside, it is not confirmed that the new MacBook Pro is using Santa Rosa. Santa Rosa is a complete platform in the Centrino family, and it requires three things: a mobile Intel CPU, a mobile Intel chipset, and Intel PRO/Wireless wifi.
For Santa Rosa those are a Merom CPU, a Crestline (965PM or GM) chipset, and Intel 4965AGN wifi; the new MBP has the first two, but in the past Apple has used a non-Intel (Atheros, I think) wifi chipset.

[P]

Originally Posted by mduell 

IIRC the PowerMacs/Mac Pros have underclocked cards yet retain their performance level indication, as well as some of the G5 iMacs (9600Pro/X600 Pro, but they were mobile cards? I'll have to check on this). The previous MacBook Pro was advertised as X1600 graphics processor, while being below the nominal clockrate for X1600 (with no performance level indication) per ATi.

From the first iMac G5, we've had:

Geforce FX 5200 Ultra - not underclocked (and noisy as hell)
Radeon 9600 - underclocked. (It was never advertised as a mobility model, that was just what it was interpreted as)
Radeon X600 Pro/XT (iSight model) - not underclocked (no, can't prove this with a registry dump or anything like that but the speed tests showed a marked improvement compared to the 9600. They're supposed to be the same gen GPU as the 9600, only with a PCIe bridge chip, so there is no place to get the speed except a higher clock).
Radeon X1600 - underclocked

Apple did this nasty little thing already back with the G3s, where the first slotloaders had "Rage 128", except it was an underclocked and crippled one, not the one in the last-gen Powermac G3. The second slotloaders had Rage 128 Pro, and this time it really was a copy of the Powermac.

[imitchellg5]

Originally Posted by dmcnickle 

I just talked to apple and the guy I talked to said the new LED backlight is only in the original matte and not available with the glossy display. This is different than the website. Does anyone know anything else about this?

Yeah, that's not right at all. I talked to them and they said both. And they confirmed that the 17" isn't LED. Although the rumor mill (a friend at Apple) says that they aren't far behind.

[hldan]

Originally Posted by Ado 

3 biggest peeves-

1) MB rubbish gfx for 3D

2) MBP cases are 6 years old and done to death. Even pc laptops have immited and moved on....
.....uninspiring apple.

3) No "12/13 MBP...For that earth conscious gamer/3d pro.

Apple makes products for shareholders.

Acutally the MBP (which is essentially the old PowerBook) cases came out in 2003. Only 4 years ago although I have to admit my heart stopped when I saw 2 new notebooks on Apple's site today that were still silver. I really want a black aluminum MBP. Bummer.
Also no Blu-Ray, double bummer.

[MacosNerd]

Originally Posted by mduell 

Until someone buys one and tells us what wifi card is inside, it is not confirmed that the new MacBook Pro is using Santa Rosa. Santa Rosa is a complete platform in the Centrino family, and it requires three things: a mobile Intel CPU, a mobile Intel chipset, and Intel PRO/Wireless wifi.
For Santa Rosa those are a Merom CPU, a Crestline (965PM or GM) chipset, and Intel 4965AGN wifi; the new MBP has the first two, but in the past Apple has used a non-Intel (Atheros, I think) wifi chipset.

I think I found the answer:

"These new MacBook Pros are the first Apple laptops to feature Intel’s “Santa Rosa” chipset, said Apple vice president of worldwide Mac product marketing David Moody."

Link: Macworld

[Super Mario]

Originally Posted by hldan 

I really want a black aluminum MBP. Bummer.

Black alu would scratch quicker than silver. We need a professional luxury rubberised or leather feel like Pismo.

[Super Mario]

Originally Posted by P 

From the first iMac G5, we've had.

Don't care for the iMac. I'm sure all PowerBooks since the first Titanium and all MacBook Pros have had underclocked graphics. This can be fixed in Windows now by writing a new clockspeed to ROM unless there is something in the Mac drivers that clock the chips down again when OS X loads.

The MBP site says 57% faster than X1600. That has to be underclocked because the 8600 GT should be way faster than that.

[imitchellg5]

Originally Posted by hldan 

Acutally the MBP (which is essentially the old PowerBook) cases came out in 2003. Only 4 years ago although I have to admit my heart stopped when I saw 2 new notebooks on Apple's site today that were still silver. I really want a black aluminum MBP. Bummer.
Also no Blu-Ray, double bummer.

It's a timeless design I think. It seems older than 4 years, but at the same time it also looks fresh. I think it was smart of Apple to keep it. It's also durable. I think another reason that Apple has kept it is because this is one design that the PC world hasn't copied yet. You can't say that about the iBook or iMac.

[brokenjago]

Blu-Ray? That would instantly increase the cost by like $800.

[Super Mario]

Originally Posted by brokenjago 

Blu-Ray? That would instantly increase the cost by like $800.

$400. That's the wholesale price of slot loading Blu-ray to manufacturers. Yesterday Sony cut the cost of its Blu-ray players citing lower costs so that $400 optical drive will come down to $300 soon. It should be a BTO option.

[vertigociel]

Was anyone really expecting Blu-Ray or HD-DVD? There was very little chance that there was going to be anything more than a chip upgrade; especially with the iPhone in less than one month, and the Leopard delay due to lack of resources. Plus, there's no clear winner in the Blu-Ray/HD-DVD battle, so Apple's not going to load in a premium HD disc drive only to watch it become obsolete. I know, I know, they dropped floppies before anyone, and were early adopters of USB, but those were both clear evolutionary steps. The HD battle is still up in the air.

[brokenjago]

Blu Ray Movies are outselling HD DVD ones by quite the margin.

Or they were. Maybe it has something to do with ~3 million PS3s being sold

[Ado]

I think im going to give this a miss.
The current Apple product range just doesnt suit my needs....Soo disappointed.

Wanted to get into Motion and company of Heroes on a small "13 for travelling and enviromental consciousness.
These updates were all scattered, they were supposed to be released in conjunction with Leopard.

I think I will go After Effects and an ASUS laptop.
I expected more from Apple.
This feels like the age old EL CAPITAIN saga all over again....

[SEkker]

I'm surprised Apple did not offer a Blu-ray BTO option. But I personally would not have paid even $400 more for it right now. That technology is too early for my use.

As for everyone wanting a true 13" MBP, I think you are going to be disappointed for a long time. I find the 15" size to be an asset over my wife's 12" PB, and the weight is not an issue. If you need the pro capabilities, this is not a big compromise over the MB. I'm not sure what you do that the MB's hardware does not cover. Seems to me, that is a niche of a niche (Apple) market. I believe that Apple's next form factor designs are going to be focused on 1) a true tablet based on the truetouch technology and 2) a true subnotebook with solid state storage (no hard drive). The latter might not even have a built-in optical drive and might weigh as little as ~2 lbs due to the weight reduction in the battery due to the power savings found in the new chips, LED backlighting, and FLASH memory. Those latter designs would open the Mac up to completely new users.

[mduell]

Originally Posted by MacosNerd 

I think I found the answer:

Link: Macworld

I question if he really means Santa Rosa when he says "Santa Rosa" and isn't being more casual and calling Crestline "Santa Rosa" as many others have.

Anyone taken one apart? Or maybe system profiler says which wifi card is in there?

[MacosNerd]

Originally Posted by mduell 

I question if he really means Santa Rosa when he says "Santa Rosa" and isn't being more casual and calling Crestline "Santa Rosa" as many others have.

Anyone taken one apart? Or maybe system profiler says which wifi card is in there?

You seem to be reaching on that I've read other places and they to say the same thing - Intel's latest chip set - Santa Rosa. Linky eweek

I'm not sure too many people who just spent 2K+ is going to take it apart just to see what the chip set is and of course risk voiding their warranty.

[Super Mario]

Originally Posted by SEkker 

I'm surprised Apple did not offer a Blu-ray BTO option. But I personally would not have paid even $400 more for it right now. That technology is too early for my use.

The major problemo even if you get an external Blu-ray is there is no movie player on the Mac.

[mduell]

Originally Posted by MacosNerd 

You seem to be reaching on that I've read other places and they to say the same thing - Intel's latest chip set - Santa Rosa. Linky eweek

I'm not sure too many people who just spent 2K+ is going to take it apart just to see what the chip set is and of course risk voiding their warranty.

"chip set" vs "chipset"
Santa Rosa is a set of chips (cpu+chipset+wifi), Crestline is a chipset.

I was hoping it would say in the system profiler or one of the logs which wifi card is installed.

[P]

The system profiler log posted by Macintouch doesn't make it clear one way or the other - it just says Airport Extreme - but I guess you could compare the hex code at the end (0x168C, 0x87) with whatever the current machines show and get some hints.

According to Intel's naming conventions, Santa Rosa is a platform and Crestline is a chipset. I suppose you could theoretically say "the Santa Rosa chipset" and mean the chipset that is included in the Santa Rosa platform - ie Crestline - but I can understand the confusion.