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Did anyone notice ...
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mattyb
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Feb 15, 2010, 12:30 PM
 
... that Microsoft just came out with a new Smartphone OS?

No? Oh well.
     
Cold Warrior
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Feb 15, 2010, 01:12 PM
 
No Flash support at present.
     
mattyb  (op)
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Feb 15, 2010, 02:52 PM
 
Originally Posted by Cold Warrior View Post
No Flash support at present.
Copying Apple again then.
     
MacinTommy
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Feb 15, 2010, 03:21 PM
 
I seent it. Looks like the Zune HD interface which I can't stand.
     
Spheric Harlot
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Feb 15, 2010, 03:34 PM
 
I really like the people centric approach for that one tile. I wonder how easy it is to add sources - probably impossible.
     
analogue SPRINKLES
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Feb 15, 2010, 04:39 PM
 
1) Same multitasking abilities as the current iPhone.
2) No Flash.

With just those 2 things being the main complaint about the iPhone how does this windows device bring anything to the table that would make someone want it over and iPhone.

Let me just get out of the way that the UI is horrid and every single screenshot and app is a user interface disaster. Well that parts they didn't copy from Apple that is.

I just noticed that now everyone copied the whole pinch/zoom thing and central home button the new thing to copy is push notifications, scrollbars that only show when needed, minimal UI. How these guys come up with such great ideas?!
     
Spheric Harlot
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Feb 15, 2010, 04:41 PM
 
No objections to Flash, either, though.

Also, it has Exchange integration that probably works much more seamlessly and completely than Apple's implementations (which, I'm told, come with limitations that can be more or less deal-killing, depending upon corporate server set-up).
     
analogue SPRINKLES
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Feb 15, 2010, 04:51 PM
 
Here are 2 quick examples of this guinness UI.

1) I'm all for white space but I love how there is a huge empy area on the top and the right of the home page for now reason. Who needs things like battery level, reception when you can put nothing there instead and at the same time cut off the word "games" at the bottom. Those horried blocks show no more information than the icons and badges on the iPhone. Those usless widgets bellong on these devices that have nothing useful to fill the space with. Every time I turn on my phone I would love it if I saw random tiny randomly cropped picture of somewhere. All those tiny little faces in people are so easy to make out and provide such great information.



And for the other apps... if you didn't figure it out already this is the "Ople" app you are in.
Damn with the standard scrolling down that everyone is used too! Now the right 20% of your screen is dedicated to showing you parts of cut off stuff to show you that some mystery content awaits you!



I could go on but i feel that if you are stupid enough to be drawn to all the flashy movement then logic isn't going to get in your way.
     
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Feb 15, 2010, 05:00 PM
 
It's hilarious how ugly this Win 7 Mobile UI is. I thought M$ was on to decent interfaces based on its desktop Win 7 work, but I guess that could be an aberration.

"The natural progress of things is for liberty to yield and government to gain ground." TJ
     
imitchellg5
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Feb 15, 2010, 05:00 PM
 
Well I like it. It's certainly eleventy billion times better than any other version of Windows Mobile. I'd like to at least play around with it.

PS: I think the UI is pretty.
     
Apples-inc
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Feb 15, 2010, 05:00 PM
 
Looks pretty sexy!
Call me Apples
     
analogue SPRINKLES
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Feb 15, 2010, 05:00 PM
 
This crap makes me want to stop reading Gizmodo.

Windows Phone 7 Interface: Microsoft Has Out-Appled Apple - Microsoft windows phone 7 - Gizmodo

But if the UI is as good as he thinks it is and it uses the Zune UI than it will definitely take over just like the Zune did. Oh wait.
     
Stogieman
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Feb 15, 2010, 05:03 PM
 
Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES View Post
1) Same multitasking abilities as the current iPhone.
2) No Flash.
By the time this phone is released, iPhone OS 4.0 will already be out. If the rumors about iPhone OS 4.0 are true then the zune phone will be the only non-multitasking phone on the market.

Slick shoes?! Are you crazy?!
     
analogue SPRINKLES
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Feb 15, 2010, 05:04 PM
 
Originally Posted by imitchellg5 View Post
Well I like it. It's certainly eleventy billion times better than any other version of Windows Mobile. I'd like to at least play around with it.
Oh come on that's not saying much. You're complimenting it by saying it is better than the worst OS out there? Well good for them, I guess they outdid themselves

This OS is so confusing and cluttered I almost have to say the Blackberry OS (second worst OS) is better and def easier to use.

So since they are staring with a "clean slate" does that mean all apps need to be from scratch. It's a long way to catch up with 150,000 iPhone apps with a ton of iPad ones on the way.

Good luck, I'm sure it will be a door crasher when it launches late this year and a million other devices and OS are out there already.
     
analogue SPRINKLES
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Feb 15, 2010, 05:07 PM
 
Originally Posted by Stogieman View Post
By the time this phone is released, iPhone OS 4.0 will already be out. If the rumors about iPhone OS 4.0 are true then the zune phone will be the only non-multitasking phone on the market.
Hey I am with you on that. I am hopeful that the next iPhone will have a high res screen, some sort of multitasking without needing user babysitting and better notifications.

Once Apple takes care of those things competitors will have no real software advantages. Don't give me any crap about "Open OS" and non-controlled app store. Isn't working out so great for anyone so far when it should have proved to have great advantages by now. If anything there are more downsides.
     
Stogieman
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Feb 15, 2010, 05:10 PM
 
I agree. The interface is absolutely horrible. Even the Xbox Live integration is nothing new. Apps like iNEXS and Friendz have offered those features on the iPhone for a while now.

Slick shoes?! Are you crazy?!
     
imitchellg5
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Feb 15, 2010, 05:12 PM
 
Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES View Post
So since they are staring with a "clean slate" does that mean all apps need to be from scratch. It's a long way to catch up with 150,000 iPhone apps with a ton of iPad ones on the way..
It probably wouldn't take long to catch up with the 12 decent apps in the App Store though.
     
Spheric Harlot
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Feb 15, 2010, 05:12 PM
 
Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES View Post
This crap makes me want to stop reading Gizmodo.

Windows Phone 7 Interface: Microsoft Has Out-Appled Apple - Microsoft windows phone 7 - Gizmodo

But if the UI is as good as he thinks it is and it uses the Zune UI than it will definitely take over just like the Zune did. Oh wait.
I think the article is pretty spot-on, and that it nails exactly what makes the Zunephone's interface special and new.

Like I said, I really dig the people-centric panel idea. The article has a point about Microsoft trying to approach how people work and organize stuff in their heads.

The problem here is that Microsoft's model, while very very cool, is probably not at all - or at least not easily extensible, meaning that it will be either locked down into basic functionality, or extended only by completely cluttering it and making it a confused mess.
What happens if the next facebook comes along? Will I have to wait until Microsoft integrates it into the "ople" panel? Or can third-party developers do that?
What about apps for extending functionality? Will they have to conform to MS's predefined hubs? What if I need finer delineations?
Can I define my own "hubs"?

These things aren't clear, and potential death sentences.

However, it's very obvious that Microsoft is REALLY trying to get things right after having been handed their underwear by the iPhone. I think they've made a pretty good shot at this.

Complaining about corners, wasted space, and cut-off lettering, and matters of pure taste is like complaining about the lack of an SD slot on the iPad - almost completely irrelevant given the scope of what's really important about the device.
     
imitchellg5
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Feb 15, 2010, 05:17 PM
 
Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot View Post
What happens if the next facebook comes along? Will I have to wait until Microsoft integrates it into the "ople" panel? Or can third-party developers do that?
What about apps for extending functionality? Will they have to conform to MS's predefined hubs? What if I need finer delineations?
Can I define my own "hubs"?
Devs can make their own panels. Sounds like it's the same for functionality to a degree. IMHO, this doesn't look like an OS for power users. Looks much more consumer oriented.
     
analogue SPRINKLES
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Feb 15, 2010, 05:21 PM
 
Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot View Post
Complaining about corners, wasted space, and cut-off lettering, and matters of pure taste is like complaining about the lack of an SD slot on the iPad - almost completely irrelevant given the scope of what's really important about the device.
Ah, do you work in the industry? You'd be escorted out of the building if you ever suggested "usability" was a "matter of taste". Well no not if you worked at MS.

And SD card is a hardware option some people would like as an option. I'm pretty sure a device that is easy to use, logical and doesn't need a learning curve is what most people want, which is exactly why the iPhone is doing so well and everyone else is playing catchup.

MS didn't just have their pants handed to them by apple, they had it handed to them by EVERYONE in the industry even the crappy old blackberry.

Sad that the largest/ most profitable software company in the world with the highest R&D budget and 10 years experience in the cell phone industry wouldn't have come up with this before iPhone 1.0 let alone scrambling to get back any market share 3 years after the fact.

Bravo.

Oh and I was hired to do work for MS on several occasions. One was the design for a windows mobile app and the other for a kiosk for Chapters books. I can tell you the way the company works is they do all the programming first and think of all the little silly options you can turn on and off and at the VERY END they need to slap some UI on it reluctantly to get it to work.

The way apple works is they design the OS and how you should interact with it and then program it.
     
imitchellg5
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Feb 15, 2010, 05:23 PM
 
Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES View Post
MS didn't just have their pants handed to them by apple, they had it handed to them by EVERYONE in the industry even the crappy old blackberry.
Speaking of Blackberry, where are they? Just gonna die off?
     
analogue SPRINKLES
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Feb 15, 2010, 05:29 PM
 
Originally Posted by imitchellg5 View Post
Speaking of Blackberry, where are they? Just gonna die off?
BB OS 6.0 better start from scratch and have a webkit browser or they are screwed in a year when all those BB loves realize that a physical keyboard doesn't' come before a modern OS.

The current OS is built on the Java OS from the 90's that only sent text messages, it is pretty much DOS with windows 3.1.
     
Spheric Harlot
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Feb 15, 2010, 05:32 PM
 
Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES View Post
Ah, do you work in the industry? You'd be escorted out of the building if you ever suggested "usability" was a "matter of taste". Well no not if you worked at MS.
Dude: You've known me long enough, I'd think, to know that I really don't need you lecturing me about usability.

It seems like my point isn't getting across, and neither is gizmodo's:

I like Microsoft's approach to ORGANIZING stuff on the phone.

THAT is new (to a phone), novel, and a pretty neat idea. AND, it one-ups Apple in humanizing the approach to dealing with data. (It also, for reasons outlined above, holds the potential for tremendous, confusing clutter, but honestly, an iPhone with more than five screenfuls of apps is pretty damn unwieldy and cluttered, too. I really hope Apple comes up with an elegant, simplified organization scheme.)

Your blather ( ) may hold true; that wasn't my point.
     
mattyb  (op)
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Feb 15, 2010, 06:40 PM
 
Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot View Post
I really hope Apple comes up with an elegant, simplified organization scheme.
That can be navigated with only your thumb.
     
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Feb 15, 2010, 09:39 PM
 
Originally Posted by Big Mac View Post
It's hilarious how ugly this Win 7 Mobile UI is. I thought M$ was on to decent interfaces based on its desktop Win 7 work, but I guess that could be an aberration.
I agree. when i saw it, i thought it was something they whipped up in paintbrush for the presentation.

Putting aside my distaste of Microsoft, i really cannot believe that this is what they've come up with to rival the iPhone and RIM. Given the size of the company, i think they have a few cards up their sleeves and are saving them for the launch.

The UI, thus far, really looks fugly.

That being said, i commend them for not just copying the iPhone's UI and doing something different, thus presenting what seems like an alternative. the disconnect between the desktop OS and the mobile OS UIs does seem very apparent, and i don't think that's a good thing for the Microsoft fans.
     
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Feb 16, 2010, 01:22 PM
 
I'm with imitchell; I actually like it.

It's 1,000x better than any Windows mobile UI I've ever seen, but I also like the Zune interface.

Originally Posted by Hawkeye_a
That being said, i commend them for not just copying the iPhone's UI and doing something different, thus presenting what seems like an alternative. the disconnect between the desktop OS and the mobile OS UIs does seem very apparent, and i don't think that's a good thing for the Microsoft fans.
Exactly. And judging from most people's first impressions elsewhere, it's about 50/50 as to whether or not it looks like it worked.
     
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Feb 16, 2010, 03:45 PM
 
I find it interesting that in all of the PR images that I've seen of the interface MS feels the need to show the entire width of each section extending outward from the actual screen. This tells me that they decided to do this so that people wouldn't get confused by the interface if they just saw what is shown on the screen at any given time. This also tells me that the interface is poorly thought out. What happens when someone uses the actual phone and doesn't have that graphic extending outward to let them know that there's more to the interface to the left or right?




Sure, the interface is "designy" and different, but that alone does not make for an effective user interface design. These horizontal layouts, with type being cut off the sides, wasted space, etc, look good as stand alone graphics or posters or whatever. But this is someone that people need to actually use efficiently on a regular basis. To get work done.

I think this interface design would work in tiny doses, but as a full blown interface I think it will not catch on. Something that I feel is a great test of how effective and well designed a given user interface is, is to hand the device to a small child who has never used anything like it. See how long it takes for them to figure things out in general. I have seen small children pick up an iPhone or iPod touch and within a few minutes they're flying around the OS as if it was something they've done for years. A user interface needs to be as natural as possible for the human brain to comprehend. This is why we moved from command line to graphical interfaces and from keyboard only to keyboard + mouse way back when.

I just see this interface as something that looks neat but is not effective. A few people will dig it, but the masses will not. Case in point, Zune.
     
analogue SPRINKLES
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Feb 16, 2010, 04:44 PM
 
I love the idea of every screen being cut off somehow and different background for each app. Thing are so much easier to read on a background that looks like a salad or clouds.

My guess is because just a screengrab of the OS without the stupid transitions show it being as ridiculous as it really is. That's some some sharp looking "light contro", "marke", "tplace" and "tions" screens they got there. Can't wait to turn on my phone forgetting what app I had open only to see titles like that.
     
Spheric Harlot
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Feb 16, 2010, 04:47 PM
 
Prepare for impending tablet based on that interface. You'll be able to see 3/4 of that screen then, rather than a fifth.
     
Hawkeye_a
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Feb 17, 2010, 02:28 AM
 
Anyone else here surprised at how fast the 'buzz' on this product has died down ? I mean the iPad is still high up there in popularity, but this product, billed as 'Microsoft's answer to the iPhone' has fizzled.

If you are as critical of these things as i am, you would have probably noticed a world of difference in the level of polish and sophistication of both products. And as a consumer, i appreciate attention-to-detail, something WinMo7 severely lacked. If Microsoft doesnt have a couple of UI aces(polish, consistency, etc) up their sleeve for the product launch, i seriously doubt it will see any critical/public success, especially when being compared to iPhone/WebOS.
     
imitchellg5
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Feb 17, 2010, 12:52 PM
 
I don't think it has. Even my geography professor was talking about it.

Engadget has a good post about everything Windows Mobile 7.
     
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Feb 17, 2010, 01:16 PM
 
This thing has FAIL written all over it. But I bet it has charisma, however feigned it may be.
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Feb 17, 2010, 01:51 PM
 
Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES View Post
Here are 2 quick examples of this guinness UI.

1) I'm all for white space but I love how there is a huge empy area on the top and the right of the home page for now reason. Who needs things like battery level, reception when you can put nothing there instead and at the same time cut off the word "games" at the bottom. Those horried blocks show no more information than the icons and badges on the iPhone. Those usless widgets bellong on these devices that have nothing useful to fill the space with. Every time I turn on my phone I would love it if I saw random tiny randomly cropped picture of somewhere. All those tiny little faces in people are so easy to make out and provide such great information.
The space on the top and side of the screen really bothers me. It seems that the right hand space is just so that there is a right arrow. What a waste.


5 minutes later and some copying from Apple, but in my opinion, the home screen is much better. It doesn't quite work with the dots at the top because the screen scrolls up and down, but I think that the dots is a much better idea than a waste of space just for a right arrow.
     
analogue SPRINKLES
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Feb 17, 2010, 03:06 PM
 
Here's something that didn't even cross most of our minds... IT WILL COST MONEY! Those costs are going to have to be transfered to the customer somehow.

Why use this crap with ZERO apps when there is android which is free or easy to develop and share Apple App store?

Joke Of The Week: Microsoft Plans To Charge For Its Mobile Operating System - Windows - Gizmodo
     
imitchellg5
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Feb 17, 2010, 03:23 PM
 
That's not really anything new, they did the same with previous versions. And it's worked for years with Windows itself. Still, that means that we probably won't see Windows Mobile 7 on cheaper devices, unless M$ uses a variable price-point model. So it'll take longer to proliferate the market.
     
analogue SPRINKLES
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Feb 17, 2010, 03:38 PM
 
Originally Posted by imitchellg5 View Post
That's not really anything new, they did the same with previous versions. And it's worked for years with Windows itself. Still, that means that we probably won't see Windows Mobile 7 on cheaper devices, unless M$ uses a variable price-point model. So it'll take longer to proliferate the market.
Problem is it may have worked back then but good luck with that after iPhone and Android.

Seems that MS is controlling the hardware that it can run on strictly. It is not allowed to have more than the 5 buttons shown in that demo unit along with minimum hardware specs.

So how are companies going to set themselves apart? Slightly different shape and perhaps a bit faster or more storage?

Why not develop for android and do whatever you like hardware wise? And for free.

MS isn't going to make much money licensing this app. They really need to make their own phones if they want to make money and stand a chance. They are too old fashioned though and believe more in licensing software so lots of people. I seriously doubt that is going to work out now.
     
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Feb 17, 2010, 05:58 PM
 
But iphones are still da bomb!
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Spheric Harlot
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Feb 18, 2010, 05:09 AM
 
Originally Posted by imitchellg5 View Post
I don't think it has. Even my geography professor was talking about it.

Engadget has a good post about everything Windows Mobile 7.
Great demo video on that page.

Hellishly confused interface.
     
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Feb 18, 2010, 05:55 AM
 
I like the cut off text at times, but IMO it's overused here. The big drawback of text is that you have to read it and that pictograms are actually faster to comprehend (that's why we use them!).

I give MS credit for trying to start afresh with a different approach. I wonder how well this mixed approach will do (function centric for basic functionality, but there are also apps). The `function centric' part reminds me a bit of Palm's Pre which also tries to aggregate all sorts of info from various sources. The idea to integrate services such as Twitter and Facebook, hmm, I don't know how much it actually would benefit people who are not geeks.

But I hold off my final verdict until I actually try one of these.
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Spheric Harlot
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Feb 18, 2010, 06:10 AM
 
It's at least an attempt at fixing the iPhone's greatest shortcoming: The clutter of having to manage a few dozen completely disparate apps.

I currently have a weird combination of some most-used and Apple-supplied apps on the first page, with the rest of the pages roughly sorted by app type or general category. There's gotta be a better way.

I'm not sure that Microsoft's equally mumbled it's-an-app-next-or-is-it-a-hub-why-do-i-have-icons-here-and-full-images-there muddle is much better.

Not to mention that while the front page can be infinitely long, it will - oh wonder - be auto-sorted by most-used/recently used items. What is a minor but vital annoyance on a menu with about a dozen items will be utterly catastrophic for actually trying to find something on a four-inch screen with a virtual foot-and-a-half of scrolling tiles.
     
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Feb 18, 2010, 06:37 AM
 
I agree.
I've noticed this with my friends who have iPhones/iPod touches: they have usually four pages worth of apps. While it may be obvious to them how they've sorted them, perhaps grouped in some way, it's not at all obvious.

Perhaps Apple can somehow take a few cues and integrate something like the new Services menu in 10.6 which has become context sensitive (finally!).

In the end, I'm not sure how much of a difference it makes to have a semi-function-oriented phone: one of the key features, facebook integration, is not new, the Palm Pre already had that. But that can be added to any Address Book-type application. Other than that, IMO at least, all that is radically different is the start screen. While tiles are different, I don't see that much of a difference to the launch bar in the bottom of your iPhone other than that you have more flexibility.
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Feb 18, 2010, 02:21 PM
 
Sorry for the interruption fellows. Lemmie just pull up my sexy windows 7 phone for a second..



Alrighty, the most noticeable thing right off the bat is the 2 little ethic girls eating icecream, ok now I got my bearings into what app I must be in.

Ok time for some work.

Seems like it is the 15*00 of Nonday 1 Februa. Good good.

I also see I got 02 (tiny white box) 08 or 03 and (windows logo) 02. If I knew what any of that was I'm sure it's good to know in this instance.

Wonder what my battery level is like though. Guess no room for that info sadly.

Oh wait more info! I see a big "LIVE" at the bottom in a weird orange font and what I think is the top of someones head. I should probably check that out by scrolling down. Or wait, should I scroll to the right to see why Februa is cut off?

My god why didn't apple come up with such shear brilliance?
     
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Feb 18, 2010, 02:31 PM
 
you shouldn't scroll right or down. you should double tap the ice cream cone. it looks delicious.
     
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Feb 18, 2010, 02:36 PM
 
Originally Posted by Demonhood View Post
you shouldn't scroll right or down. you should double tap the ice cream cone. it looks delicious.
I would but in typical MS fashion they skimped out on sprinkles and didn't give me a napkin wrapped around the cone to catch that drip.

Poor ethic girls got hosed
     
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Feb 18, 2010, 02:43 PM
 
I had to laugh at Gizmodo espousing the virtues of MS's "data-centric" interface.

Am I the only one who remembers OpenDoc?
     
analogue SPRINKLES
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Feb 18, 2010, 03:05 PM
 
Originally Posted by hayesk View Post
I had to laugh at Gizmodo espousing the virtues of MS's "data-centric" interface.

Am I the only one who remembers OpenDoc?
You mean before Gil dumped it because it was a mess?

This is going to be a fun security issue too and we all know how good MS is with spyware and virus.
     
Spheric Harlot
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Feb 18, 2010, 03:33 PM
 
Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES View Post
2 little ethic girls
[…]
My god why didn't apple come up with such shear brilliance?
I'm not an authority to judge the ethics of it, but the inadvertent pun on the shear brilliance of cutting everything off at the edges is pretty good.
     
analogue SPRINKLES
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Feb 18, 2010, 04:27 PM
 
Why thank you
     
B Gallagher
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Feb 20, 2010, 06:24 AM
 
Originally Posted by Demonhood View Post
you shouldn't scroll right or down. you should double tap the ice cream cone. it looks delicious.
Februa is the best time of the year for ice cream, after all.
MBP 15" C2D 2.2GHz 4.0GB [email protected]
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