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Brexit? (Page 7)
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Paco500
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Jul 6, 2016, 09:40 AM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
You're right, I was incorrect, the source said if you exclude Scotland, N Ireland, and London. But then, of course it would, those are by far the most Left-leaning regions in the UK.
Except N Ireland, which is one of the most conservative areas of the UK. You don't get much right, do you?
     
Cap'n Tightpants  (op)
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Jul 6, 2016, 11:59 AM
 
"Conservative"? I can make heads or tails out of N. Ireland's politics, it changes with constant regularity (a trait that is decidedly not conservative) but most people up there appear to be socialists, of one stripe or another, throwing fits and tantrums any time the wind blows from different direction. Are you alleging they're conservative because they're more religious than the rest of the UK or because the IRA is still so popular?
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OreoCookie
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Jul 6, 2016, 12:44 PM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
"Conservative"? I can make heads or tails out of N. Ireland's politics, it changes with constant regularity (a trait that is decidedly not conservative) but most people up there appear to be socialists, of one stripe or another, throwing fits and tantrums any time the wind blows from different direction. Are you alleging they're conservative because they're more religious than the rest of the UK or because the IRA is still so popular?
You're applying your narrow definition of conservatism to other countries and cultures without understanding them. By your definition Bismark was a lefty because he introduced socialized health care in 1883. In Germany, being pro-European is a conservative trait, something that is unique in the European landscape. When you put it in the historical context, you also understand why, and why this does not necessarily hold true for other countries.
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Cap'n Tightpants  (op)
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Jul 6, 2016, 11:38 PM
 
Originally Posted by OreoCookie View Post
You're applying your narrow definition of conservatism to other countries and cultures without understanding them.
No, I'm pretty sure Paco was. N.I. even says their politically to the Left (with extreme union ties), it's his own opinion they aren't.
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OreoCookie
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Jul 7, 2016, 01:29 AM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
No, I'm pretty sure Paco was. N.I. even says their politically to the Left (with extreme union ties), it's his own opinion they aren't.
???
Paco wrote the exact opposite, namely that people in Northern Ireland are more conservative on average not less conservative.
Originally Posted by Paco500
Except N Ireland, which is one of the most conservative areas of the UK.
Why don't you try and supplement your arguments with actual data?
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Cap'n Tightpants  (op)
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Jul 7, 2016, 01:53 AM
 
Originally Posted by OreoCookie View Post
???
Paco wrote the exact opposite, namely that people in Northern Ireland are more conservative on average not less conservative.
I said it's his opinion that they aren't on the Left.
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Paco500
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Jul 8, 2016, 02:03 AM
 
Originally Posted by OreoCookie View Post
???
Paco wrote the exact opposite, namely that people in Northern Ireland are more conservative on average not less conservative.


Why don't you try and supplement your arguments with actual data?
In logical or debating terms, it is perfectly reasonable to rebut an unsupported assertion without data, which is what I did.

However, as you asked to nicely, the largest political party in NI is the Democratic Unionist Party. To an American, they might see "Democratic" and "Unionist" and think left-wing- they would be wrong. They are a right-wing (or centre-right by US standards) party.

While there are many active political parties in NI, and many of those lean left, most of the country and politicians lean right on social issues.

One could only classify NI as one of the most liberal areas of the UK because of ignorance or because it fits an unsupported agenda (lefties voted remain!)
     
Cap'n Tightpants  (op)
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Jul 11, 2016, 07:00 AM
 


"I have a dream, that my four little children will one day live in a
nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin,
but by the content of their character." - M.L.King Jr
     
Cap'n Tightpants  (op)
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Jul 14, 2016, 07:21 PM
 
Why Brexit is important: German police launch first nationwide hate speech raids - The Local

"Illegal opinions", really?
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subego
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Jul 14, 2016, 08:04 PM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
Why Brexit is important: German police launch first nationwide hate speech raids - The Local

"Illegal opinions", really?
My understanding is this is holdover from WWII.

After the war, Germany was stuck with two bad options. The first was to nail a bunch of Nazis who basically had no choice in the matter. The other option was to let a bunch of real Nazis walk.

It was decided the latter was the lesser evil, but left open the possibility for a resurgence of Naziism.

The solution they came up with was making the promotion of Naziism illegal.

Not sure if I agree with the solution, but I can see where they were coming from on it.
     
Cap'n Tightpants  (op)
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Jul 15, 2016, 01:26 AM
 
Yeah, made perfect sense... 70 years ago.. Those people are long gone, or so old it doesn't matter.
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Jul 15, 2016, 04:40 AM
 
Many European countries have something similar.. In Sweden we have a law banning "incitement of hatred against population groups" as the forties legalese translates to. It basically amounts to banning people walking around with swastikas and straight right arms at a 45 degree angle, as they are judged to be promoting genocide, while historical representations of the same symbols is OK.

Which means that if you want to argue for banning immigration, you can do that. If you say that you don't like black people, you're an idiot but you won't be arrested. If you say that all immigrants should be rounded up and shot, you're in trouble. That said, the penalty is usually a small fine.

I'm not a huge fan of it in principle, but in practice it has been a workable compromise. Basically, anything that could be considered a criminal threat if aimed at a single person remains a criminal threat if it is aimed at a group.
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