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WWDC 2019 (Page 2)
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turtle777
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Jun 5, 2019, 01:39 AM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
There’s still headroom. 15A breaker at 110V can take 1.65 kW.
ATP talked about this on their WWDC live podcast.

Either Jon Siracusa or Marco Arment mentioned that appliances can't be spec'd to use the max (1.65 KW) for regular, ongoing consumption.
1.4 kW supposedly is close to what's allowable.

-t
     
reader50
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Jun 5, 2019, 01:49 AM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
There’s still headroom. 15A breaker at 110V can take 1.65 kW.
Originally Posted by OreoCookie View Post
… assuming that different outlets run on separate circuits.
Electrical notes, if anyone is curious.

The US domestic standard is 120VAC +/- 10%. ie: 108 - 132 VAC inclusive. 110V is valid, but close to brownout (107 or below). It's usually higher. The 240V outlets are the same, +/- 10% inclusive. (216 - 264 VAC)

A 15A breaker is assumed to be good for 1800W. However, it is very, very common to use only 20A or larger breakers in newer homes. A 20A breaker can serve 15A sockets, provided there are at least 2 such outlets on the branch circuit.
     
Waragainstsleep
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Jun 5, 2019, 05:22 AM
 
The specs page lists the max continuous power 1180W @ 100-107V or 1280W @ 108-125V or 220-240V.
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
P
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Jun 5, 2019, 06:48 AM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
There’s still headroom. 15A breaker at 110V can take 1.65 kW.

I’d also hope it’s not intended to draw that much. Running a power supply at max isn’t the best idea.
Less so today, but in general computers have a high peak when starting up because fans and spinning drives have to spin up, and that takes power. Back at University, the computer labs could never come back up on their own when the power was turned off and came back, because they would kill the nearest breaker. We had to pull some plugs, restore the breakers, and then plug them back in one at a time.

Anyway: 15A would be OK. If it is only 10A, it's a problem. This is actually part of the reason that Intel ditched Netbus/Pentium 4 back in the day - Tejas (the successor to Prescott and the chip that was cancelled) was projected to draw so much power that it would start to flip breakers in homes when starting up, assuming reasonable power draws for everything else in the system.

Originally Posted by andi*pandi View Post
are they expecting people to wall mount these monitors (for point of sale or kiosk type displays I can see it) so that's why the stand is separate? My tv is wall-mounted on a swing arm. If I were wall mounting one of these I'd hate to pay for a stand if not needed - but $999 is highway robbery for something that doesn't turn on. Let the secondary market ripoffs commence!
Yes, Apple is expecting people to mount these things to VESA mounts. They stated this in interviews - apparently this is very common in the target market. That said, they should include the Vesa mount in the box in that case.

Originally Posted by ajprice View Post
The Mac Pro doesn't look right to me, not sure why, maybe the metal handles or the holes are too big. It looks like those fan made renders you used to get of the Powermac back in the day, there was one that looked like a vintage microphone, and a site had a lot of different ones, applele.com or something like that, can't remember the name.
I think that the idea is to make the case look small. It isn't - it's probably EATX size - but if you make handles and feet large, the case looks smaller by comparison. Remember that Apple pushed how small the trashcan MP was, and now they made the successor massive.
The new Mac Pro has up to 30 MB of cache inside the processor itself. That's more than the HD in my first Mac. Somehow I'm still running out of space.
     
mindwaves  (op)
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Jun 5, 2019, 08:07 AM
 
$6000 computer in 2019, no matter how powerful, should not come with a 256 GB drive. Trivial to add more, yes, but that isn’t the point. Apple nickel and diming everyone still.
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turtle777
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Jun 5, 2019, 08:42 AM
 
Originally Posted by mindwaves View Post
$6000 computer in 2019, no matter how powerful, should not come with a 256 GB drive. Trivial to add more, yes, but that isn’t the point. Apple nickel and diming everyone still.
Nobody will buy the $6000 config.
Not sure why Apple felt it even needed to exist. Probably optics, they had a certain starting price in mind.

To make the Mac Pro worth the purchase, “normal” configurations will easily get it to 5 digits.

-t
     
reader50
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Jun 5, 2019, 12:13 PM
 
Originally Posted by mindwaves View Post
$6000 computer in 2019, no matter how powerful, should not come with a 256 GB drive. Trivial to add more, yes, but that isn’t the point. Apple nickel and diming everyone still.
It might not be trivial. One of the remaining questions is if it requires proprietary Apple M.2s like in earlier MacBook Pros. Or if standard ones will work.
     
Laminar
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Jun 5, 2019, 12:21 PM
 
Originally Posted by turtle777 View Post
Yes, it’s very clear that pro-sumers, enthusiasts and “entry to mid-level pros” are not the target audience.

This is for the 1% pros that can throw thousands of dollars at a problem to save them minutes or hours in a workflow. The new Mac Pro is not a personal computer, it’s a high-class workstation.

Apple has never served this market before.

-t
People doing a lot of 4K video editing are still buying 2010/2012 MPs and throwing $2000-3000+ in upgrades at them so they can handle modern workflows - RAID NVMe SSDs, workstation graphics cards, everything. But the best processor setup you can run would be dual 3.46GHz 6-core Xeons, which has about the same multi-core Geekbench as a current i7 Mini, and about half the single core score of a Mini. And RAM speeds are limited as well.

For people that actually need this machine, the price doesn't seem like too much of a stretch.
     
subego
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Jun 5, 2019, 12:24 PM
 
Originally Posted by reader50 View Post
It might not be trivial. One of the remaining questions is if it requires proprietary Apple M.2s like in earlier MacBook Pros. Or if standard ones will work.
My guess is at least the main drive will be proprietary.
     
OreoCookie
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Jun 6, 2019, 04:57 AM
 
Originally Posted by reader50 View Post
It might not be trivial. One of the remaining questions is if it requires proprietary Apple M.2s like in earlier MacBook Pros. Or if standard ones will work.
Promise will make a multibay storage expansion module (2- and 4-bay, I believe). And you should be able to add PCIe-based SSDs via a M2-PCIe adapter. You probably won't be able to boot off of it, though, but I reckon that is ok.
Originally Posted by subego View Post
My guess is at least the main drive will be proprietary.
That's my guess as well. But it isn't certain. Weirdly enough, Apple wasn't touting anything about the storage as it did in the past. So I wouldn't rule out entirely that they are using standard NVMe SSDs.
I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
     
reader50
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Jun 6, 2019, 05:33 AM
 
Originally Posted by OreoCookie View Post
Promise will make a multibay storage expansion module (2- and 4-bay, I believe).
Yes, and you can install both at the same time.

The 2-bay adapter uses the SATA ports on the logic board. The bays themselves are mounted in the blank space to the right of the CPU cooler (downstream). Looks like Apple planned SATA bays there, but decided not to include them standard.

The 4-bay adapter is an MPX module that covers 2 of the wide-spaced PCIe slots (so 4-slot width). It includes a SATA card, and 4 drives.

In both cases, the drives are mounted sideways. Hence why the 4-bay is not a 6-bay. The new MacPro does not have enough depth above the board for straight-in HD mounting.

It also appears that Promise wants to sell the adapters pre-populated. Hopefully someone will offer compatible adapters without drives.
( Last edited by reader50; Jun 6, 2019 at 05:49 AM. Reason: add product link)
     
And.reg
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Jun 7, 2019, 09:42 AM
 
Also Apple just gave me a new reason to use my 2017 iPad Pro... and Magic Mouse 2 in Space Gray.
     
mindwaves  (op)
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Jun 7, 2019, 09:21 PM
 
Any particular reason this Mac Pro uses Intel Xenon processors? All Power Macs used non-Xenon processors, but I believe that the trash can Mac Pro first started using Xenon processors. Boosts the base price quite considerably. I think most people have no need for such a processor. I thought that they were could for server load, but for video editing, less so.
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subego
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Jun 7, 2019, 09:43 PM
 
Originally Posted by mindwaves View Post
Any particular reason this Mac Pro uses Intel Xenon processors? All Power Macs used non-Xenon processors, but I believe that the trash can Mac Pro first started using Xenon processors. Boosts the base price quite considerably. I think most people have no need for such a processor. I thought that they were could for server load, but for video editing, less so.
In video, the ideal use case for a Xeon isn’t editing, it’s rendering.

A good pipeline gives each frame its own core. More cores equals faster render.
     
reader50
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Jun 7, 2019, 11:35 PM
 
Originally Posted by mindwaves View Post
Any particular reason this Mac Pro uses Intel Xenon processors? All Power Macs used non-Xenon processors, but I believe that the trash can Mac Pro first started using Xenon processors. Boosts the base price quite considerably.
The Power Macs used PPC processors. All Mac Pros have used Xeon processors. Cheesegraters, trash can, new MacPro.

As the new machine has 8 PCIe slots (probably a few more internally to the logic board), it pretty much needs a Xeon (or Epyc from AMD) for the PCIe lanes. You could split the lanes to all those slots, but devices plugged in would be sharing bandwidth.

Apple could offer the base machine with an older CPU, for a few thousand less, with unimpressive performance. The LGA 3647 socket has been around for a couple years. That could serve those of us who want expansion, and we could upgrade CPUs later. But Apple seems uninterested in entry-level expansion.
     
mindwaves  (op)
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Jun 8, 2019, 02:14 AM
 
Thanks, I had forgotten about the cheesegrater Mac Pros being the first to use Xenon processors.
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Spheric Harlot
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Jun 8, 2019, 05:56 AM
 
*Xeon

Xenon is an inert gas.
     
mindwaves  (op)
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Jun 8, 2019, 07:07 AM
 
Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot View Post
*Xeon

Xenon is an inert gas.
Many thanks.

On another WWDC note, iPad OS looks like the first real laptop replacement for most people.
{{{ mindwaves }}}
     
Chongo
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Jun 8, 2019, 07:27 AM
 
Originally Posted by And.reg View Post
Also Apple just gave me a new reason to use my 2017 iPad Pro... and Magic Mouse 2 in Space Gray.
The original iPad Air is not supported. I have a 128GB wifi only Air that I may trade in when my Verizon iPad is eligible for trade in, if I can trade both in on a new one. If not, I'll donate it to my sister. She's using a dinky windoze tablet.
     
andi*pandi
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Jun 8, 2019, 12:50 PM
 
my ipad air is getting long in the tooth, but considering my work just shelled out for macbook pros, they are not likely to upgrade my ipad too.
     
Doc HM
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Jun 10, 2019, 05:30 PM
 
Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot View Post
*Xeon

Xenon is an inert gas.
As any scrabble bore knows.
This space for Hire! Reasonable rates. Reach an audience of literally dozens!
     
reader50
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Jun 14, 2019, 04:08 PM
 
About the Mac Pro storage. Early indications are the main M.2 sticks are proprietary.

Simplified illustrations provided by Apple show a connector that does not match any common SSD interface. AppleInsider also analyzed Apple's published specs vs several possible interfaces without finding an answer. We can hope the graphic illustrator just used the wrong source image.

If their M.2s are proprietary, the main storage is the first clear expandability weakness. Where you have to order sticks from Apple (assuming they're sold separately) or buy your missing SATA drive bays from Promise. Or buy your own PCIe storage card.
     
Waragainstsleep
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Jun 15, 2019, 10:48 AM
 
They will likely be proprietary like every MacBook SSD. Apple will probably not sell them separately. Even along with installation. No idea why, they just don't tend to do that any more.
OWC will reverse engineer them as they will likely be only a slight pinout variation of the standard M.2s.
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
 
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