[pete]

I had a pretty much perfect Powerbook G4 and decided to sell it and get a MBP so I can use dragon naturally speaking on a windows partition. I knew about some of the issues and thought I could live with them.

I'm on my second unit now and it's a little better than the first one in some ways, and worse in other ways. the display is a little better, the heat, fit and finish worse (warped lid and some other smaller stuff). The deal breaker for me is the excessive heat. I don't care what anybody says - the macbook pros suffer from very excessive heat, making them uncomfortable to use as a portable computer. The second issue is the display -I went to compare MBP heat and display with PC laptops. All the duo core PC laptops were significantly cooler than the MBP and all had more even illuminated displays with more contrast and better viewing angles.

I really don't know what to do. I would go back to a last generation powerbook if I knew I could get one without the horizontal line issue that plagued them, but I can't. With all the problems with Apple's laptops, I prefer to buy new with full warranty and get the free double warranty through my credit card, so getting an older powerbook without warranty is not an option. I feel stuck and it pisses me off that Apple can't do better with such an important product - the first laptops with the intel processor.

I'm just ranting, but the bottom line is that I'm so disappointed with Apple's laptops since last year. There is simply no excuse for the poor quality control and choice of poor displays.

That's all.

[samuel690069]

I know how you feel....it is disapointing. I thought I was buying a premium quality product and the lid doesn't even fit properly....and how hard is it to make a straight keyboard....the old Dell i'm on atm has a perfect keyboard. I really hope my second 15" MBP is a whole lot better.

[pete]

the weird thing about the lid is that the problem has been around for several revisions of Powerbooks and now continues on the macbook. The first one I had actually had a perfectly straight bezel, but this one is warped or it might be the way it is attached on the computer. My impression is that if it is seated too low on the computer it pulls up more in front and since the corners don't have any latches it starts warping there. So it might just be poor manufacturing and assembly.

But I think heat is the real problem with these babies - something needs to be done about it quickly.

[explosivpotato]

i think the lid warp is a design feature. my 17 inch powerbook has a slight warp of the screen so that it kind of looks like wings (more gap between the screen and the bottom of the case on the outside than the inside), but i think its there to make ABSOLUTELY SURE that the screen doesnt hit the keyboard. just added insurance.

[pete]

I can confidently say that it is NOT a design feature, unless you want to consider a completely straight bezel, like on the first mbp I had and my last powerbook, a defect? If it were a design feature, the gap would be even, not a little more on one side. I think it's a design feature as in poor design, but definitely not a design feature meant to be there in order to protect the screen. If it were intended to protect the screen it failed miserably. All my powerbook G4s have had marks on the LCD from the keyboard, both warped and straight display bezels.

[jasonsRX7]

Originally Posted by pete

I feel stuck.

You're not stuck. I sent mine back, no problem. And never had to pay a dime for it, since it was purchased on net 30 terms.

Just tell them you've tried two units and they're both unacceptably hot, and you don't want it anymore.

[dummyfung]

what do u guys mean when u say " my laptop is warped" ?

[Zeeb]

I agree, the MBP quality is very questionable. I feel lucky I don't have a whine on my machine but my keyboard is crooked and the lid is slighty warped. If I have 5 or 6 spare hours on Sunday I may try to exchange it --but might be more trouble than its worth.

Well, any minute now the trolls are going to attack this thread and tell us what a bunch of whiners we are and then make lame jokes about whining MBP's and "whining" customers--all the while thinking they were the very first to come up with that joke. brace yourself.

[pete]

Oh, it's not that I feel stuck like that . Amazon has a 30-day return policy so that shouldn't be a problem. The problem for me is that I need something to replace it with and there's nothing out there now. The last generation powerbooks would be ok if it weren't for the fact that there are no new ones left and that they all have the LCD horizontal line issue so I would have to send it in immediately to try to get a replacement LCD (which is not guranteed either) . I returned two of those to amazon in November and don't want to go through that again.

I'm stuck because Apple is simply not producing any acceptable 15" laptops right now and I need a 15" laptop for my work.

[Peabo]

mine was warped, but I was able to bend it into shape (!)
It's actually very easy to do

[dummyfung]

Warped guys what is that? ,,, what bends? ... that sounds painful ahhhhhhhhhh!

[Andy8]

I'm stuck because Apple is simply not producing any acceptable 15" laptops right now and I need a 15" laptop for my work

Buy a 17" MBP - I do not see too many complaints about them.

[draggerman11]

Originally Posted by pete

I had a pretty much perfect Powerbook G4 and decided to sell it and get a MBP so I can use dragon naturally speaking on a windows partition. I knew about some of the issues and thought I could live with them.

I'm on my second unit now and it's a little better than the first one in some ways, and worse in other ways. the display is a little better, the heat, fit and finish worse (warped lid and some other smaller stuff). The deal breaker for me is the excessive heat. I don't care what anybody says - the macbook pros suffer from very excessive heat, making them uncomfortable to use as a portable computer. The second issue is the display -I went to compare MBP heat and display with PC laptops. All the duo core PC laptops were significantly cooler than the MBP and all had more even illuminated displays with more contrast and better viewing angles.

I really don't know what to do. I would go back to a last generation powerbook if I knew I could get one without the horizontal line issue that plagued them, but I can't. With all the problems with Apple's laptops, I prefer to buy new with full warranty and get the free double warranty through my credit card, so getting an older powerbook without warranty is not an option. I feel stuck and it pisses me off that Apple can't do better with such an important product - the first laptops with the intel processor.

I'm just ranting, but the bottom line is that I'm so disappointed with Apple's laptops since last year. There is simply no excuse for the poor quality control and choice of poor displays.

That's all.

How hot is it? I have a last revision 15 inch PowerBook, 100 GB 7200 RPM hard drive and one gig of ram, no horizontal lines, and it gets hot on the bottom, but not so hot that it is unusable on the lap with pants on. I would like to get a Macbook Pro (even a used one), but if it is unusable with pants on then I wouldn't get it.

[venom600]

Originally Posted by Andy8

Buy a 17" MBP - I do not see too many complaints about them.

That is because they are just getting into peoples hands today. Give it a couple of days.

[hndsmman]

The heat is a temporary problem. Apple always skimps on thermal paste. Get your hands on some Arctic Silver 5 and put it on the CPU, GPU, and the NB Chipset. I've seen multiple cases where a MBP was whining and heating up too hot, but after new thermal paste was applied it ran super-cool. If you don't know how to apply thermal paste, email me.

[Enigmaaron]

Originally Posted by pete

I had a pretty much perfect Powerbook G4 and decided to sell it and get a MBP so I can use dragon naturally speaking on a windows partition. I knew about some of the issues and thought I could live with them.

I'm baffled. You complained and complained about the MacBook when they were announced (particularly the modem). Then complained much more once they were released about the various minor issues (particularly the - in your opinion - poor screen quality that bothered you so much that you started two threads about it). And now you regret your purchase?!?! If you are that hung up on dragon naturally speaking just buy a cheap PC (the software has very basic requirements) and stick with a PowerBook. Or here's a concept just ditch Apple all together since they've apparently gone in the dumper so much. Is it really worth the stress you are putting yourself through? I just can't fathom how someone who complained so much about a product still went and bought one. Maybe you just like to complain...

[freakboy2]

yeah, i think you guys are whiners. certainly, there are legitimate problems with some of these laptops, but bitching about the heat, whine and the fact that the screen doesnt flex back so far, those are part of the PRODUCT THAT YOU BOUGHT. If a car has a bumper that you think is ugly, don't buy it. What's the difference here?

[slffl]

Wow, I love it when people whine about whiners.

Anyway, I agree that the MBPs suck and Apple is not making quality and ergonomic laptops.

[slffl]

Originally Posted by freakboy2

yeah, i think you guys are whiners. certainly, there are legitimate problems with some of these laptops, but bitching about the heat, whine and the fact that the screen doesnt flex back so far, those are part of the PRODUCT THAT YOU BOUGHT. If a car has a bumper that you think is ugly, don't buy it. What's the difference here?

You make it sound like people who don't like it have A CHOICE in buying a different laptop. As soon as I can go buy a laptop from Dell that runs OSX, then you can use this argument.

[pete]

Originally Posted by Enigmaaron

I'm baffled. You complained and complained about the MacBook when they were announced (particularly the modem). Then complained much more once they were released about the various minor issues (particularly the - in your opinion - poor screen quality that bothered you so much that you started two threads about it). And now you regret your purchase?!?! If you are that hung up on dragon naturally speaking just buy a cheap PC (the software has very basic requirements) and stick with a PowerBook. Or here's a concept just ditch Apple all together since they've apparently gone in the dumper so much. Is it really worth the stress you are putting yourself through? I just can't fathom how someone who complained so much about a product still went and bought one. Maybe you just like to complain...

Yeah, you're damn right I complained about the modm and the screen tilt - two stupid design choices Apple made in order to make the thing marginally thinner.And of course the slower DVD drive which was also a consequence of the thinner case. Oh, and the excesssive heat that probably would have been at least a little better with more breathing room in there. I tried using a thinkpad last year for dragon but I didn't like having two computers and keeping track of files on both. That's the reason I decided to get the macbook pro - because I thought it was going to solve that problem, which it does. BUT it also introduces a whole set of other issues: very excessive heat, relatively poor screen quality, whine (I can live with the whine because there's a workaround), less tilt (why?) but I can live with that too, slower DVD (that's fine too) etc. I knew about some of the issues beforehand and was ok with dealing with them.


What I did NOT know is that the screen would be lousy. I was just in tekserve (my girlfriend works around the corner - I'm not just hanging out there all the time..) and compared the 17" and 15" macbooks next to each other. All I can say is that the difference night and day. On the 17" the whites were crisp and white, the viewing angle was significantly better and the screen was much more evenly illuminated - except for a small white strip at the bottom. I know there are unevenly illuminated samples too, but the one there was better than all the 15" screens I've seen at the Apple Store, Tekserve and COmpusa. It is what would have been the natural evolution of the next-to-last generation powerboks. Even more importantly, the 17" was luke warm on top and significantly cooler than the 15" sitting next to it. I wasn't paying attention to the isight camera and actually though it was powerbook G4 because was it was so lacking in heat. I'm sure that under a heavy load it would get hot, but idling like that it was significantly cooler than the 15" and that is at least a good start.

As I said, I knew there would be problems and I don't agree with several of the choice Apple made with these things, but that's where Apple is today. I'm not imagining the problems of the 15" macbook pro and I'm not a whiner because I'm not satisfied after paying $2000 for a notebook computer that is not up to snuff. I detest George Bush and and his ignorant, conservative and, ultimately devastating, policies - am I unpatriotic because of it? No, on the contrary. Same thing with my opinions about Apple right now. It is because I care about Apple that I criticize it when it messes up like this. There is simply no excuse why getting a new laptop should be a hit or miss affair.


No, you;re right, it is not worth the stress and, believe me, if I could run OS X on other hardware I wouldn't hesitate for even a second. As for being 'hung up' on dragon - yes, when you have painful RSI, anything that will help is something worth getting hung up about.

[pete]

Originally Posted by Def Jef

The heat is a temporary problem. Apple always skimps on thermal paste. Get your hands on some Arctic Silver 5 and put it on the CPU, GPU, and the NB Chipset. I've seen multiple cases where a MBP was whining and heating up too hot, but after new thermal paste was applied it ran super-cool. If you don't know how to apply thermal paste, email me.

I'm hoping that Apple will offer this themselves as I'm really afraid of going in there and digging around....it's too risky for a techno ignoramus such as myself to do that. Thanks for the offer of help though!

If I decide to keep this, I might try to find somebody with the necessary experience to help me do it though.

[Enigmaaron]

So couldn't you return your 15" to get a 17" and clear up the major issues? Or are you past the return period? I would think a few hundred bucks for peace of mind would be well worth it.

P.S. For the record I never accused you of being a whiner, I just question your decision.

[pete]

I was actually considering that today and I might do that. I just think the 17" is a bit large and heavy. The 15" feels like the perfect size. Also, the difference between the low end 1.83ghz macbook 15" and the 17" is actually $800 which is a lot just to get a computer that works the way it should...I guess I could sell my cinema display to make a up the difference.


You might be right that I made a stupid decision. But what's done is done and now I have to figure out a way to fix it...

[milhouse]

I've only had my 15" MBP for a few days but I like it a lot. (upgraded from a very nice 1.5GHz 12" PB G4)
The case bottom does get hot but I nearly always use a coolpad.The cpu temps hover between 46C and 56C.
No warpage and I have what looks like a straight kbd. No whine and the fans are quiet (also running the speedit.kext, if that matters).

The only issue is that one latch doesn't drop down when the lid is closed.

YMMV I suppose.

[aristobrat]

Originally Posted by freakboy2

yeah, i think you guys are whiners. certainly, there are legitimate problems with some of these laptops, but bitching about the heat, whine and the fact that the screen doesnt flex back so far, those are part of the PRODUCT THAT YOU BOUGHT. If a car has a bumper that you think is ugly, don't buy it. What's the difference here?

Um, the difference is that you can't see the flex, feel the heat, or hear the whine UNTIL AFTER YOU'VE PURCHASED "THE CAR".

Unless I'm missing something, Apple doesn't do "notebook test drives".

[pete]

So I've been using my second MBP a little more now. I've solved a few issues that were minor - airport not connecting after reboot and a gap between the plastic rim and the upper left corner metal. Other minor issues remain: the whine and cow mooing are two that I don't want but that I can live with. After updating with the keyboard update the whine does not go away using the mirror widget as before, but I suspect Apple will eventually fix that so I'm not too concerned. The cow is kind of cute, even if I'd prefer not to have it. I suspect Apple will fix that too.

So the two remaining issues that bother me on this book, besides the slightly warped LCD bezel, are heat and poor viewing angles on the display. I was just sitting behind a guy with a powerbook G4 15" at a coffee shop so I could compare the two very directly. Two things stood out: at an optimum angle the MBP was much brighter and at any other angle the powerbook was better (both contrast and brightness) . I wish Apple would have used a better LCD and I also wish I knew why they used this one when I'm positive that there are better ones at the same price out there.

I'm getting used to handling the heat. It only gets really bad when I am running apps that are CPU demanding and those are usually apps that where I use more mouse than keyboard and thus am not as bothered by the heat. When I write, surf and use email the case is acceptably warm, albeit not ideal.

Bottom line is that I am learning to accept the limitations of this computer and appreciate the positive aspects of it. If I could have a wishlist it would be, in order of importance:

1. Less heat
2. Better viewing angles on the LCD
3. If no better viewing angle, at least the ability to tilt the bezel more freely. It's the combination of poor viewing angle and limited tilt that makes things bad.
4. No display warp
5. Straight keys on keyboard. A few keys are twisted and not seated properly - small thing but it contributes to a generally negative feeling.
6. Less noise when the DVD drive sucks in the disk. I always feel like it's going to break down. the sound is not reassuring at all....I'm unsure if it's just my drive or if they're all like this. My old powerbook one was noisy, but not like this.

That's all!

pete

[sabrejim]

Am I missing something in the whole heat debate? Isn't the fact that the cae is becoming hot a good sign? It means heat is being transferred through the case rather than being bottled up inside.

[Dark Helmet]

I and a couple friends of mine were all planning on getting a MBP. After hearing all these negative experiences and seeing a friend go through them we all have decided against it.

These things were obviously rushed to market and they need to take some time to fix all these problems. Shame customers have to be the beta testers.

[olePigeon]

My PowerBook G4 is a Rev C (D?) PowerBook. The model just before the high-res version. It's been a perfect laptop.

I'll get a MacBook Pro, but only after a few revisions. It's new hardware and Apple is going to need to work out some bugs with it.

Until then, I just got 2 more years on my PowerBook's warranty. That should last me long enough for a few revisions and to save up some money to buy one.

[striker100]

I was at an Apple Retail Store this afternoon. I was so disappointed with the displays on both the 15" and 17" MacBook Pros on display, they were horrible! I have absolutely no desire for a MacBook Pro, I was thinking of buying one for my dad but I'm going to buy him a really nice PC notebook instead. It's sad because I wouldn't have even thought about doing that before but there is no way I'm spending $2400 on a laptop that has a display like than and on top of that I picked it up and the bottom was boiling hot! A good friend of mine wants to buy a MacBook Pro, I hope he's not going to get a display like I saw today.

[aristobrat]

Originally Posted by kaze0

Am I missing something in the whole heat debate? Isn't the fact that the cae is becoming hot a good sign? It means heat is being transferred through the case rather than being bottled up inside.

http://www.engadget.com/2006/05/01/m...hermal-grease/

IMO, the debate is that people who disassemble their MBP and apply the thermal paste properly almost always notice a huge reduction in the case temperature. Why? Probably because the heat being transferred leaves the case in the proper fashion -- along the heat pipes, pushed by the fans. As I understand it, with the thermal goo misapplied, the unit's getting a lot hotter than need be before the fans kick in because the heat ISN'T going out the route it should be.

[b1NARY73]

" I was thinking of buying one for my dad but I'm going to buy him a really nice PC notebook instead. " Is their such a thing? =)

[aristobrat]

Originally Posted by striker100

I was so disappointed with the displays on both the 15" and 17" MacBook Pros on display, they were horrible!

Weird. The display on my 15" MBP was one of the things that I loved about it! It was so much brighter than my previous 15" PowerBook (with the hi-res screen).

[b1NARY73]

Originally Posted by pete

So I've been using my second MBP a little more now. I've solved a few issues that were minor - airport not connecting after reboot and a gap between the plastic rim and the upper left corner metal. Other minor issues remain: the whine and cow mooing are two that I don't want but that I can live with. After updating with the keyboard update the whine does not go away using the mirror widget as before, but I suspect Apple will eventually fix that so I'm not too concerned. The cow is kind of cute, even if I'd prefer not to have it. I suspect Apple will fix that too.

So the two remaining issues that bother me on this book, besides the slightly warped LCD bezel, are heat and poor viewing angles on the display. I was just sitting behind a guy with a powerbook G4 15" at a coffee shop so I could compare the two very directly. Two things stood out: at an optimum angle the MBP was much brighter and at any other angle the powerbook was better (both contrast and brightness) . I wish Apple would have used a better LCD and I also wish I knew why they used this one when I'm positive that there are better ones at the same price out there.

I'm getting used to handling the heat. It only gets really bad when I am running apps that are CPU demanding and those are usually apps that where I use more mouse than keyboard and thus am not as bothered by the heat. When I write, surf and use email the case is acceptably warm, albeit not ideal.

Bottom line is that I am learning to accept the limitations of this computer and appreciate the positive aspects of it. If I could have a wishlist it would be, in order of importance:

1. Less heat
2. Better viewing angles on the LCD
3. If no better viewing angle, at least the ability to tilt the bezel more freely. It's the combination of poor viewing angle and limited tilt that makes things bad.
4. No display warp
5. Straight keys on keyboard. A few keys are twisted and not seated properly - small thing but it contributes to a generally negative feeling.
6. Less noise when the DVD drive sucks in the disk. I always feel like it's going to break down. the sound is not reassuring at all....I'm unsure if it's just my drive or if they're all like this. My old powerbook one was noisy, but not like this.

That's all!

pete

Pete,

What kind of problems were you having with your Airport connectivity? I thought I had solved mine, but it has come back.... it seems to be when I try to have my network as a closed WPA....the only way it works is to have it open, unprotected.... which is not what I want! For what its worth I have a MBP 2.0Ghz, with and Airport extreme base station. Thanks ahead!

[jasonsRX7]

Originally Posted by kaze0

Am I missing something in the whole heat debate? Isn't the fact that the cae is becoming hot a good sign? It means heat is being transferred through the case rather than being bottled up inside.

Yes, you're definitely missing something. Like the fact that the MBPs get incredibly hot on the inside AND outside.

[striker100]

Originally Posted by aristobrat

Weird. The display on my 15" MBP was one of the things that I loved about it! It was so much brighter than my previous 15" PowerBook (with the hi-res screen).

Well here are the reasons, both the 15" and 17" MacBook Pro displays were very unevenly backlit. If I moved my head even slightly to the left or right the color and brightness shifted dramatically. The vertical angle was just terrible, if I looked down slightly at the display it got an order of magnitude darker. Now contrast this with some truly beautiful displays on much less expensive PC notebooks. My sister recently got an HP laptop, she paid under $1200 for it. I swear the display is light years ahead in quality compared to the MacBook Pros display. Look I've had 4 Powerbooks, 3 iMacs and a couple of Powermacs, I am an Apple fan. Unfortunately I feel Apple is cutting corners and feels that because Apple is sort of like a "club" and has a superior OS (which I agree with 100%) people will overlook inferior hardware but I just can't any more. Not when I see displays like the one on my sisters HP and the gorgeous displays on the Sony Vaio laptop PC's. I go into Apple Stores and they are packed and people are so enamored with the products on display because they look so cool. I'm past that and require superior hardware. Apple should be providing just that.

[b1NARY73]

Originally Posted by striker100

Well here are the reasons, both the 15" and 17" MacBook Pro displays were very unevenly backlit. If I moved my head even slightly to the left or right the color and brightness shifted dramatically. The vertical angle was just terrible, if I looked down slightly at the display it got an order of magnitude darker. Now contrast this with some truly beautiful displays on much less expensive PC notebooks. My sister recently got an HP laptop, she paid under $1200 for it. I swear the display is light years ahead in quality compared to the MacBook Pros display. Look I've had 4 Powerbooks, 3 iMacs and a couple of Powermacs, I am an Apple fan. Unfortunately I feel Apple is cutting corners and feels that because Apple is sort of like a "club" and has a superior OS (which I agree with 100%) people will overlook inferior hardware but I just can't any more. Not when I see displays like the one on my sisters HP and the gorgeous displays on the Sony Vaio laptop PC's. I go into Apple Stores and they are packed and people are so enamored of the products on display because they look so cool. I'm past that and require superior hardware. Apple should be providing just that.

I agree, the screens on the recent crop of Sony vaio's and Higher end Hp's are wonderful..... my wife has a IBM / Lenovo 14" widescreen, and the screen on that is amazing. I am happy with my MBP screen... maybe I got lucky!

[pete]

Originally Posted by aristobrat

Weird. The display on my 15" MBP was one of the things that I loved about it! It was so much brighter than my previous 15" PowerBook (with the hi-res screen).

Yes, brighter it is, but everything else about it is inferior: contrast, vertical and horizontal viewing angles before distortion, illumination distribution. There is more to a good display than brightnes imo.

[pete]

Originally Posted by striker100

Well here are the reasons, both the 15" and 17" MacBook Pro displays were very unevenly backlit. If I moved my head even slightly to the left or right the color and brightness shifted dramatically. The vertical angle was just terrible, if I looked down slightly at the display it got an order of magnitude darker. Now contrast this with some truly beautiful displays on much less expensive PC notebooks. My sister recently got an HP laptop, she paid under $1200 for it. I swear the display is light years ahead in quality compared to the MacBook Pros display. Look I've had 4 Powerbooks, 3 iMacs and a couple of Powermacs, I am an Apple fan. Unfortunately I feel Apple is cutting corners and feels that because Apple is sort of like a "club" and has a superior OS (which I agree with 100%) people will overlook inferior hardware but I just can't any more. Not when I see displays like the one on my sisters HP and the gorgeous displays on the Sony Vaio laptop PC's. I go into Apple Stores and they are packed and people are so enamored with the products on display because they look so cool. I'm past that and require superior hardware. Apple should be providing just that.

I hate to have to agree. However, I doubt these are just cheap displays - I mean, I can't imagine that those wonderful looking cheap PC laptops are using anything more expensive. I think it has more to do with follow-up and QC withe the manufacturer of the displays. In this case that means Samsung and Chi Mei, both of which usually produce good displays. I don't get what Apple is doing.

[pete]

Originally Posted by b1NARY73

Pete,

What kind of problems were you having with your Airport connectivity? I thought I had solved mine, but it has come back.... it seems to be when I try to have my network as a closed WPA....the only way it works is to have it open, unprotected.... which is not what I want! For what its worth I have a MBP 2.0Ghz, with and Airport extreme base station. Thanks ahead!

My airport would not connect after rebooting and I would have to either try to connect to another network first and the re-try my network and sometimes also turn off airport and restart it. I would see full signal but there would be no connection. I trashed the network preferences and rebooted. It seems to be working, but it's too early to know for sure as I did this yesterday.

[pete]

Originally Posted by olePigeon

My PowerBook G4 is a Rev C (D?) PowerBook. The model just before the high-res version. It's been a perfect laptop.

I'll get a MacBook Pro, but only after a few revisions. It's new hardware and Apple is going to need to work out some bugs with it.

Until then, I just got 2 more years on my PowerBook's warranty. That should last me long enough for a few revisions and to save up some money to buy one.

That's the laptop I used to have and loved. It was essentially perfect in terms of build quality and reliability. I messed up.

[aristobrat]

Originally Posted by pete

Yes, brighter it is, but everything else about it is inferior: contrast, vertical and horizontal viewing angles before distortion, illumination distribution. There is more to a good display than brightnes imo.

Maybe I got lucky? I never had a problem with the illumination being uneven on the two MBPs that I used, nor did I notice anything inferior with the contrast. They definately did look bad when viewed from "not sitting right in front of it" though, but thankfully, I didn't read over my shoulder very often.

[aristobrat]

Originally Posted by pete

That's the laptop I used to have and loved. It was essentially perfect in terms of build quality and reliability. I messed up.

I had the high-res version of the PB (that had the hi-res screen replaced with the one that didn't have the horizontal lines) and am totally kicking myself for having sold it right after buying my MBP. It was an awesome, awesome machine.

[pete]

When I have compared my two MBPs to PC laptops and also to the 17" MBP what I notice immediately is that viewing angle is much worse and whites are not as white. It's all relative of course and unless you see the two next to each other you're less likely to notice it. When I put my MBP next to my gf's pismo whites look fantastic! Part of the problem is that the LCD is brighter at the bottom and gets dimmer toward the top, making whites at the top less white than at the bottom.

When I'm working with people, I like to be able to show them things on the screen and that usually is at an angle. With my old powerbook it was not a problem, but with the MBP the color, contrast distortion starts almost immediately when you move to the side. I remember reading the specs for this LCD on Samsung's site and it's supposed to have 140 degree viewing angle, but it really seems less than that. The vertical viewing angle is suppose to be 120 but, again, I think it's less.

If I could trade back to a high resolution last generational laptop with a replaced screen I'd do that in heartbeat. If I found an old new stock one I'd have battle with Apple to replace the screen and I just don't feel like it.

[habibman]

How did you get your "horizontal line LCD" replaced? Do the "Genius" folks really take that as a legitimate defect?

love my rev. D powerbook, but alas I am selling it. As much problems as there are with the MBP, I am really concerned about getting left in the dust when all the software is intel oriented.

But this PB runs everything like a breeze, and come Saturday when my eBay auction ends, I will probably regret selling...

[pete]

Just some advice: wait a month or so. You'll get less for your powerbook but then all the problems will most likely have been worked out with the MBP. IF they're not, at least you'll have a choice to keep your nice powerbook...

[HouseSold]

Originally Posted by pete

That's the laptop I used to have and loved. It was essentially perfect in terms of build quality and reliability. I messed up.

We're still using a 17" Powerbook G4 RevC that runs cool (50 Degrees C avg or less) and have been on Apple hardware almost exclusively since 1979.......whew.

I have a new $499 Toshiba Satellite (Celeron M) for office requirements too. Out of curiousity, we visited a local Apple store. The Trubrite screen next to the !7" MBP at the Apple store was so much brighter and more viewable that I was stunned. The MBP 17 was nearly too hot to the touch, much, much hotter than our G4 17" Powerbook. The Toshiba was faster on their internet (I'm embarrassed to say) and the frame rates on the Toshiba were nearly identical to the MBP 17 at the store and our iMacIntel Duo 20" at our home (62 to 65 fps)

I know there's no comparing the fit and finish, in general, of the MBP's, but a comparably equipped Dull or Toshiba is half the price (and less) and runs much cooler, What gives? I'm stuck needing Windows at work and can't justify giving up this Toshiba or not getting a $1000 price range Duo equipped PC laptop that opens the display to a full 180 degrees. We saw a presentation on a 17 inch Dell where the presenter was walking around holding the display wide open showing us great viewing angles and great brightness too.

Is this just a first revision anomaly?

Here's more: http://www.macintouch.com/readerrepo...dex.html#may12

[pete]

I have a bad feeling that Apple has made the wrong choice with these displays and that it won't be fixed until possibly the next revision - that is, if anybody at Apple notices the poor quality. I don't know what to say - I'm pretty surprised that Apple chose these displays to put in their laptops.

[aristobrat]

Originally Posted by habibman

How did you get your "horizontal line LCD" replaced? Do the "Genius" folks really take that as a legitimate defect?

Someone came up with a wallpaper that made the effect of the "horizontal line problem" very apparent, so I set it as my wallpaper, called Apple up and arranged to send it in.

With that wallpaper, there'd be no way that anyone with the gift of sight could send the PowerBook back thinking that it was fixed if it wasn't.

It took Apple around 4 months after people started complaining about the high-res screens in the last model PB before they came up with a solution (which was to replace the screen with one from a different vender). Before then, people were told "it's within spec", or when they sent their laptop it, they'd get it back with the screen replaced with the same part number (when it was obvious that all of those parts had the problem). Kinda of like how people are getting their 'hot" MBP's back and they're still running hot. Even when Apple started replacing the screens with the new kind, they never made a public announcement about it. Thank god for these forums or nobody would have known!

I still have faith that Apple may deal with the MBP issues accordingly, but just in case they decide not to, I didn't want to be stuck with a laptop that I resented, so I returned mine for a refund.

[MovieCutter]

So return it...