[Cody Dawg]

German authorities are prepared to arrest her if she goes through with her mock crucifixion on stage during her concert.

Personally, I hope she does get arrested.

Why doesn't she mock Islam? Or Judaism? Why mock Christianity?

Now the world will see that she's either chicken-shite or she'll be arrested.

[Rumor]

This wouldn't be the first time she was arrested for doing something she isn't supposed to do.

[smacintush]

Originally Posted by Cody Dawg

Why mock Christianity?

Why NOT Christianity?

[smacintush]

Originally Posted by Cody Dawg

German authorities are prepared to arrest her if she goes through with her mock crucifixion on stage during her concert.

Personally, I hope she does get arrested.

Why doesn't she mock Islam? Or Judaism? Why mock Christianity?

Now the world will see that she's either chicken-shite or she'll be arrested.

I personally am more appalled at the lack of respect for free speech in Germany. I thought they cared about human rights!

[Cody Dawg]

Because it's boring.

She's been there and done that.

Pick another religion, Madonna, er Esther, er Madonna...

What's her name these days?

[smacintush]

Originally Posted by Cody Dawg

Because it's boring.

She's been there and done that.

Well, apparently she's not bored yet.

[smacintush]

Originally Posted by Cody Dawg

What's her name these days?

I thought she changed it to "Skanky Old Whore"…

[Rumor]

Madonna is my favorite whore.

[RAILhead]

<Beavis>

I sure would like to doooooo Madarna

</Beavis>

[Landos Mustache]

She'll do it because getting arrested will put her on the cover of every paper in the world.

[Dakar]

Originally Posted by RAILhead

<Beavis>Madarna
</Beavis>

Nice.

[gururafiki]

Originally Posted by Cody Dawg

Why doesn't she mock Islam? Or Judaism? Why mock Christianity?

If she mocked Islam, she would have a Jihad declared against her. If she mocked Judaism, then everyone would call her anti-Semitic. I guess being called anti-Christian (not that she really is) is considered less of an issue to her.

It's similar to a African American (or Asian or Hispanic) person making fun of White people, usually that is not considered a big deal. But once you get a white guy making fun of black people, he is usually labeled racist.

[olePigeon]

Originally Posted by smacintush

I personally am more appalled at the lack of respect for free speech in Germany. I thought they cared about human rights!

Not when it comes to Christianity, though. You should probably take note on Germany, it doesn't take too many more Conservative Christian Presidents to start turning America that way.

[olePigeon]

Originally Posted by gururafiki

If she mocked Islam, she would have a Jihad declared against her. If she mocked Judaism, then everyone would call her anti-Semitic. I guess being called anti-Christian (not that she really is) is considered less of an issue to her.

Madonna's Jewish, by the way.

[TETENAL]

taz 4.2.06 Ein Schwein, ans Kreuz genagelt

taz 4.2.06 a pig, to the cross nailed

[mydog8mymac]

Hmmm . . . a heavy handed German government? Now, where have I heard about that?

[Kerrigan]

Madonna is just having fun, the world is her playground.

I would like to see her get arrested though, it would make for an interesting NN thread.

[mojo2]

Originally Posted by gururafiki

If she mocked Islam, she would have a Jihad declared against her. If she mocked Judaism, then everyone would call her anti-Semitic. I guess being called anti-Christian (not that she really is) is considered less of an issue to her.

It's similar to a African American (or Asian or Hispanic) person making fun of White people, usually that is not considered a big deal. But once you get a white guy making fun of black people, he is usually labeled racist.

You mean a Fatwa.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatwa

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by Kerrigan

Madonna is just having fun, the world is her playground.

I would like to see her get arrested though, it would make for an interesting NN thread.

Really, what is there to be said?

She was arrested once in my home town. She swore never to come back to Toronto because of it... she has performed here several times since.

[Kerrigan]

I'm sure Cody and I could fill up pages of discussion if juicy pics are taken of her being pulled off stage by the cops (as suggested in that article).

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by olePigeon

Madonna's Jewish, by the way.

Louise Ciccone was born in Bay City, Michigan. She is the third of six children born to Silvio "Tony" P. Ciccone, a Chrysler engineer of Italian American extraction, whose parents originated from Pacentro, in the region of Abruzzo, Italy, and Madonna Louise Fortin, a French Canadian.

Originally Posted by Kerrigan

Madonna is just having fun, the world is her playground.

Used to be her playground.

[Cody Dawg]

Madonna is not Jewish.

She is not orthodox in any sense of Judaism.

The only reason she may be perceived to be Jewish is because she believes in Kabbalah - which is considered a cult group by all Jewish organizations and not recognized.

Also, because of the fact that she's so obsessed with the cross clearly indicates that she is not divorced from Christianity or Catholicism - she was raised a Catholic and her father is still a devout Catholic.

[Sky Captain]

Originally Posted by Cody Dawg

Why doesn't she mock Islam? Or Judaism? Why mock Christianity?

Because you don't get a death sentence like certain Dutch film makers.
Or authors.

And bashing Christianity is all the rage.

Look up Piss Jesus.

[badidea]

Originally Posted by smacintush

I personally am more appalled at the lack of respect for free speech in Germany. I thought they cared about human rights!

It's a human right to mock religious groups??

What happens if you call an american cop "asshole"?
Nothing?
I don't think so!

We do not just respect authorities but also religion (any form of religion)!
You know what respect is, right?

[Cody Dawg]

The fact is that good talent doesn't rely on sex or gimmicks to entertain people.

I'm watching Christina Aguilera right now on GMA and let me tell you, that chick has TALENT. She's beautiful and has one of the best voices in the business, period. (Maybe the best?)

Speaking of which, there are a lot of very talented people out there. Check out Jennifer Holiday in Dreamgirls from the '82 Tony's.

There are many more examples.

The point is that Madonna routinely relies on shock value to bring attention to herself.

No amount of working out will ever change the fact that she has a so-so voice. Yeah, she's in good shape and she can dance, but anyone can be taught to dance and the more physical a person is the easier it is. Give anyone a lot of gym time, money for choreographers, make-up artists, etc., and they'll shine.

The fact that she cannot act could never be covered up, however.



Other than that, she's mediocre.

[Dakar]

What a catty thread.

[Cody Dawg]

Yes, it is, isn't it?



Don't you like cats?



I do when their names are Christina, Aretha, Celine, Josh (Groban), Andrea (Bocelli), etc. None of them relied on shock value and sex to punch up their value as entertainers. (Well, Christina has done that in the past, yes, but she began with talent and ends with talent so it's irrelevant.)

[evfish84]

Originally Posted by Cody Dawg

The only reason she may be perceived to be Jewish is because she believes in Kabbalah - which is considered a cult group by all Jewish organizations and not recognized.

The problem with this Kabala garbage is that people actually think they're learning Kabala. I asked a few Rabbis what they thought of celebrities learning Kabala, and they laughed in my face. They said there are several problems with the idea:
1) Anyone who says they learn Kabala is full of it. Nobody who learns it admits to it (I'm not sure what this means exactly, but I think it has something to do with secrecy).
2) Kabala means "handed down." It is a tradition. A non-Jew cannot learn Kabala because they do not have Jewish training or tradition. This leads to the most important point. . .
3) Kabala is the ultimate form of Jewish learning. It is forbidden for an individual to attempt to learn Kabala until that person is at least 40, because that is how long it takes to learn the Talmud, Bible, and other Jewish texts adequately enough to even understand the most rudimentary Kabala.

IMO, these celebrities who go to "Kabala Centers" to learn from some new-age hippie con artist calling himself a Rabbi are huge idiots. Maybe they are learning something meaningful, but they shouldn't call it Kabala. That's the equivalent of me reading a single verse from the Old Testament and saying, "Look at me, I am Teh Rabbi!"

[Cody Dawg]

You're exactly right.

Kabbalah is something that the most senior of rabbis learn - and involves an extreme understanding of the Talmud in Hebrew.

And you're right that they don't talk about it. It's sort of like the freemason society or something!

[evfish84]

Originally Posted by Cody Dawg

Kabbalah is something that the most senior of rabbis learn - and involves an extreme understanding of the Talmud in Hebrew.

Althought technically the Talmud is written mostly in Aramaic

[Shaddim]

I don't see anything wrong with it, personally. It reminds me of the "Corpus Christi" rite performed by the G:.D:. each year.

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by Cody Dawg

The fact is that good talent doesn't rely on sex or gimmicks to entertain people.

I'm watching Christina Aguilera right now on GMA and let me tell you, that chick has TALENT. She's beautiful and has one of the best voices in the business, period. (Maybe the best?)

You are aware that her current album isn't Christina Aguilera's first album, right?



She may not be using sex and gimmicks primarily now, but she certainly did in order to get noticed. But she is still using them.

[Cody Dawg]

Yes, I mentioned that she had done that in the past, yes - read my post again.

As I said, however, she doesn't have to use sex and promiscuous behavior to sell albums.

She has talent.

[Dakar]

Originally Posted by Cody Dawg

As I said, however, she doesn't have to use sex and promiscuous behavior to sell albums.

Suuuuuuuuuuuure

[Ulrich Kinbote]

Originally Posted by Sky Captain

Because you don't get a death sentence like certain Dutch film makers.
Or authors.

And bashing Christianity is all the rage.

Look up Piss Jesus.

Piss Christ by Andres Serrano, 1989.

Not about mocking Christianity.

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by Cody Dawg

Yes, I mentioned that she had done that in the past, yes - read my post again.

As I said, however, she doesn't have to use sex and promiscuous behavior to sell albums.

She has talent.

Lots of people have talent. How many albums do you think she'd sell if she was over-weight and unattractive, but still talented?

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by Cody Dawg

Madonna is not Jewish.

She is not orthodox in any sense of Judaism.

The only reason she may be perceived to be Jewish is because she believes in Kabbalah - which is considered a cult group by all Jewish organizations and not recognized.

I'm sorry Cody, but you really need to study the subject.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kabbalah

She isn't an adherent of the more traditional beliefs, and I think her mentor Rabbi Berg is a nut case (and the Kabbalah Centre is largely a scam), but the vast majority of practitioners are just regular folks. It's not some pop fad, and it's nothing like Madonna and her kind portray it to be.

[Sky Captain]

Originally Posted by Ulrich Kinbote

Piss Christ by Andres Serrano, 1989.

Not about mocking Christianity.

Try this with an Islamic symbol.
What will happen?

[nonhuman]

Originally Posted by Sky Captain

Try this with an Islamic symbol.
What will happen?

An Islamic symbol such as?

[red rocket]

I find this ridiculous. Marilyn Manson is allowed to burn giant crucifixes on stage in Catholic Dublin, but they want to arrest Madonna for hanging on one in protestant Düsseldorf. It's only a bloody concert, nobody's forcing the Christians to watch it.

What's next, outlawing people from hanging on mock crucifixes in their own homes?

[Ulrich Kinbote]

Originally Posted by Sky Captain

Try this with an Islamic symbol.
What will happen?

I don't know. My point's just that Piss Christ is not about mocking Christianity. Serrano is an artist. Not an insult comic.

Still, your question is a good on... for me to poop on!

[Sky Captain]

Originally Posted by nonhuman

An Islamic symbol such as?

A picture of Mohammed?
A Koran?


There was another painting of the The Holy Virgin Mary that was offensive also.



And what one considers art, others consider trash.
And I believe Piss Christ is mocking Christianity.

[nonhuman]

Originally Posted by Sky Captain

A picture of Mohammed?
A Koran?

There was another painting of the The Holy Virgin Mary that was offensive also.
*snip*

And what one considers art, others consider trash.
And I believe Piss Christ is mocking Christianity.

Believe whatever you want, but only the artist can know his own intentions. It seems to me that it would be just as likely that Piss Christ was a statement about how everyone else is pissing on Christianity, an exposé on what the artist considers to be distasteful behavior. A way of shaming people into acknowledging their own disrespect. A defense of Christianity.

Of course no one who insists on being insulted and a victim (Christian, Muslim, Jew, or otherwise) will ever be able to understand that.

[Shaddim]

Just a few thoughts:

I applaud Madonna, Marilyn Manson, MJK of tool, and others, and I'll tell you why. They keep certain ideas in the public mind, one of the most important being that one should always question their views in relation to God. Personally, I'd be more concerned if people didn't discuss such issues, or try and provoke certain feelings.

Locally, a lady shaped a rather accurate depiction of the Buddha out of cow sh*t and placed it in a regional exhibit. It caused quite a stir, but soon after this the local monastery reported that visitations were up and people seemed to be more interested in their way of life. Hell, if it wouldn't get me fired, I'd almost be tempted to put some religious symbol in a jar of piss and bring it to class, just to see how my students react. It might wake them up a bit.

It's about conflict, and sometimes it's a good thing.

[Dakar]

*light applause*

[Cody Dawg]

wiskejak

Lots of people have talent. How many albums do you think she'd sell if she was over-weight and unattractive, but still talented?

Uh, a LOT?

Pavarotti ring a bell?

Aretha Franklin?

Jennifer Holliday?

Mama Cass (Elliot)?

Dionne Warwick?

There are many more.

What about Ruben Studdard, who won American Idol once based on his voice and not on his weight?

Talent has nothing to do with weight, by the way.

Referring to Christina Aguilera, she has an amazing voice, FIRST. She doesn't have use sexuality first and then her talent as a back-up. My point is that Madonna has always relied on her shock value to sell albums. If Christina wants to be sexy and beautiful on top of having buckets of talent then good for her.

[smacintush]

Originally Posted by badidea

It's a human right to mock religious groups??

What happens if you call an american cop "asshole"?
Nothing?
I don't think so!

We do not just respect authorities but also religion (any form of religion)!
You know what respect is, right?

Yes, it is a human right to disrespect religious groups in this country. People do it all the time.

They disrespect different races too…in public.

And what exactly IS the word of law on calling a cop an asshole. Don't tell me what will happen, tell me what the law says.

Yeah, I know what respect is. I also know that it is OPTIONAL with very few exceptions. I don't know about you, but I personally don't want to be legally forced to be respectful of anyone and likewise no one should be forced to to respect me or any group I am a part of.

What the hell is the problem these days with everyone's fear of being offended? If you are so thin skinned that you need the government to keep people from saying mean things…kill yourself now. Your life will be hell anyway.

[Dakar]

"Respect is earned, not given."

[TETENAL]

Originally Posted by smacintush

And what exactly IS the word of law on calling a cop an asshole. Don't tell me what will happen, tell me what the law says.

StGB - Einzelnorm

[smacintush]

Originally Posted by Cody Dawg

Uh, a LOT?

Pavarotti ring a bell?

Aretha Franklin?

Jennifer Holliday?

Mama Cass (Elliot)?

Dionne Warwick?

There are many more.

What about Ruben Studdard, who won American Idol once based on his voice and not on his weight?

Talent has nothing to do with weight, by the way.

Referring to Christina Aguilera, she has an amazing voice, FIRST. She doesn't have use sexuality first and then her talent as a back-up. My point is that Madonna has always relied on her shock value to sell albums. If Christina wants to be sexy and beautiful on top of having buckets of talent then good for her.

Those artists are all old.

Name a successful young FEMALE overweight pop singer.

You're right about talent, but the reality of the pop music industry is that they don't find fat girls "marketable".

And you are wrong about Christina. Her first album they DELIBERATELY played DOWN her voice and played UP the sexuality in order to get her in the door. Only then once she was a success was allowed to show her real talent.

Nevertheless, I lover her. but then, I am a sucker for nipple rings…