[frido:mac]

Hello!

I am the Mac admin for a large newspaper and in a little dilemma here:

I have to decide whether to replace the rest of our G4s (about 40) with G5 Powermacs (Dual 2.3) now or wait for Intel Powermacs to become availiable. We use OS X 10.3.9, Lotus Notes (which in turn drives Adobe InDesign through Lotusscript/AppleScript) and Creative Suite 1 as our main apps, the Macs are installed using NetBoot/NetRestore.

Pros for the current G5s are that I can drop them into our existing infrastructure and everything works (might have to use 10.4, though).

At the moment I tend toward buying PPC G5s now and wait out the next 2-3 years...
I´d love to get your opinions on that...

Bye, Frido.

[Big Mac]

Sounds like a great job. Part of me wants to say get the Power Macs, but since our platform is now depreciated and officially infested I don't know if I can make that recommendation in good conscience. It's a heck of a position to be in.

[OreoCookie]

You will have to use Tiger, only Tiger sports the necessary drivers for the latest PowerMacs. My prediction is that Intel Pro Desktop Macs will be released in September, so if you can wait till then, it might be worth it. Since they use the same OS, it won't make much of a difference whether you have an Intel CPU in the box or a G5.

However, if you can, I would try to get your hands on an Intel iMac or a MacBook Pro to make sure all the apps you need will run on the new hardware (although I haven't seen any `critical' app close to hardware, but since we are talking about a production environment …).

[frido:mac]

The upgrade to Tiger is planned for this year anyways, but we don´t want to upgrade to Adobe CS2 (because of the AppleScript/Lotusscript stuff that won´t work with CS2).
Maybe I can convince our dealer to give us a MacBookPro for free when we order 40 G5s...:-)
The problem lies with the NetBoot/NetRestore-Stuff. I will have to make separate Netboot and Restore-Images to deploy to the machines (currently I restore all machines (from AGP G4s to Dual(not DualCore) 2.3 Ghz with the same image....

Bye, Frido.

[Todd Madson]

My understanding is that the PowerMac replacements
aren't due until later this year anyway (4th quarter)
so you only have one option really.

And the G5s are very fast and capable machines so it's
not like you are settling for less at the moment as there
is no alternative presently.

Ultimately, when the Intel towers do come out you will
still be able to get at least several years use out of the
duals.

[mduell]

An Intel PowerMac replacement isn't guaranteed until the fourth quarter, but it could come in the second (if Sossaman supports 64-bit) or third (if Kensfield makes it out with Merom) quarter.

As another poster said, get one of the current Intel Macs to test all your apps and make sure they're happy on 10.4 and on Intel. Then you can decide between PPC and waiting for Intel.

[yusung]

Adobe Software will not run natively on the INtel Macs unitl CS 3 comes out--some time in the future. Even then, not all of the plug ins will be native intel code. Note that Rosetta does not allow one to run a mix of intel native and ppc plug ins.

[new newton]

yusung is the only person so far that's on the right track. Since CS1 won't run at native speeds and you need CS1, buy the G5s. They're available, they work with your current software, and they'll last quite a while. Seems like a no-brainer.

[hotani]

i would say G5 as well, but would suggest waiting for the intels to be released to see what the value does - I'm hoping to pick up one cheap(er) once the Next Big Thing is out.

[Eug Wanker]

Yep. It would be extremely risky to migrate your whole department to Intel Macs, considering you'd be running much of your software and drivers non-natively. And there's no guarantee everything would even work on the Intel Macs. And plus, you'd have to wait six months to boot.

It's a no-brainer. Go with the G5 Power Macs.

[jasong]

I'd second (third) the notion for G5 macs. Since you are going from G4's, your non-native software will probably run as fast, if not faster even in Rosetta, but if you want a speed-boost, the G5's are the way to go for now. If your plans call for a 2-3 year upgrade cycle, your next round will be after the transition is done, and any software that is going to make the transition will have done so (and you will know which ones ultimately won't), and you can plan appropriately for upgrading your software at the same time.

[angelmb]

Originally Posted by frido:mac

we don´t want to upgrade to Adobe CS2

Neither CS3 I guess… I think that answers your question

Like other guys have said, I would look for some great offer/discount in before of the launch of the intel systems (towers, that is).

[Eriamjh]

Even if the Intel PowerMac was out now, I wouldn't buy it if I were YOU. Your software won't run very well and updates to it will likely cost you a ton of money and wouldn't come for a long time, if ever.

Get the G5s. They will be supported for at least 3-5 more years by Apple. Maybe longer.

[bighill]

I wouldn't touch the first generation of a new powermac.

[G5man]

I would get the G5's now versus waiting for the Intel's. Rev A's as others say here are not good, and if you plan on keeping these machines for three years, Intel will be in full control along with all Intel apps.

[frido:mac]

Thanks for all the answers.... I guess that confirms my "gut feeling"...
We´ll go with the G5s... and see if we can get a good deal on them (although all the dealers over here insist that they earn next to nothing on the Powermacs anyways...:-(

bye, Frido.

[crooner]

I'm a little late to the party, here, but add me to list of folks recommending the G5s. The others have stated the most obvious reasons, but the one that sticks out to me the most is the fact that, while not all, "enough" Intel iMacs and MacBook Pros have started to generate reports of problems. This is inevitable for first generations systems, especially when migrating to a different architecture.

You need to have reliable Macs that won’t give you surprises. If you wait for the Intel Macs, you may find yourself with no sleep for a month troubleshooting 50 new Macs with 50 different problems.

Okay... that's an exaggeration... and, no, I’m not an Intel naysayer. It’s just that in this case, the G5s are, as stated before, a no-brainer.

[frido:mac]

You need to have reliable Macs that won’t give you surprises. If you wait for the Intel Macs, you may find yourself with no sleep for a month troubleshooting 50 new Macs with 50 different problems.

We really had few problems with the Macs we had so far (out of 160 7500s, b/w G3s, AGP G4s, 2 have died in the last 5 years, even an ancient 8100/110 is still working) and even the 20 dual G5s have had zero problems.
I have to say that our current configuration is really stable. We switched from OS9/Quark 4.1 to OS 10.3/InDesign CS in October 2003, and stability is really up since then. Occasionally, Suitcase is acting up, but we are looking into replacing it with FontExplorer.

And you can say that no sleep would result from having problematic machines, we work in 2 shifts, so I can only take the systems offline from 10 pm to 6 am.....:-(

Bye, Frido.

[john h]

With that many computers involved I would want to wait until there is some experience to draw on for the new computers. Just like new model cars or aircraft there are always bugs to be worked out and with 40 computers I would prefer someone else work them out. Your boss would not be very thrilled if those 40 computers had some sort of recall. Of course, that is why you get paid the big bucks--making those decisions.

[frido:mac]

We made the decision to go with the G5 Powermacs.... thanks to everyone for your input.
The price is not too good, though, if we order all 40 NOW, we would get $30 off per machine, which I find pretty lousy....:-(

bye, Frido.

[awcopus]

Originally Posted by frido:mac

We made the decision to go with the G5 Powermacs.... thanks to everyone for your input.
The price is not too good, though, if we order all 40 NOW, we would get $30 off per machine, which I find pretty lousy....:-(

bye, Frido.

Given how large your purchase is, I would seriously consider working out a deal with Apple that enables you to lease the G5s. Why poor so much capital into this purchase when for much less you can finance a temporary solution?

[iREZ]

my company recently got burglarized so we had to purchase 3 only 3 new powermacs. not only did we get $50 off each machine, but they also threw in 3 free t-shirts, .mac, and procare for $50 per machine. i love new apple retail stores . i think you'll find deeper discounts if going directly to an apple store vs purchasing online or over the telephone.

[normdzn]

Hahaha, hi y'all...my question is what do you do with your old G4s?

[Todd Madson]

He said they were burglarized so they were stolen I believe.

[SalBaker]

What are the guesses for when Apple will make a quiet upgrade and/or price reduction on towers? It seems possible that soon they could make the middle-price Mac a quad and up the MH of the top model.

If this happened and the mid-price model stayed at the same price it would be very attractive to me.

[BJNY]

I, too, hope Apple either lowers the pricing across the board on Power Macs, and/or introduces a Quad G5 2GHz.

[mountainash]

Yeah, what do you do with your old Macs?

I think you did the right thing. The G5s will last 2-3 years, and when it comes time for the next major upgrade the macintel should be settled in and bug free (more or less) with some nice native software. You probably got the timing exactly right

[frido:mac]

I don't know yet what we will do with the old ones. I have some b/w G3s in one department that I will replace with the G4s, and some will be sold off.

bye, Frido.