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DarwinX · Jan 13, 2005, 11:21 AM

Did anyone else see this?

http://www.betanews.com/article/Micr...ger/1105589384

Still no webcam support??? Why is this such a problem?

nooon · Jan 13, 2005, 11:40 AM

Originally posted by DarwinX:
Why is this such a problem?

Because Microsoft are jerks. The client is looking good, though.

macintologist · Jan 13, 2005, 11:46 AM

Sticking with Fire 1.5

brapper · Jan 13, 2005, 12:53 PM

meh...it's no Adium

Angus_D · Jan 13, 2005, 12:55 PM

The webcam stuff is dependant on evil proprietary Logitech stuff which I doubt they're going to port to the Mac platform. Really bad technology decision done for a stupid dual marketing thing.

It might finally do display pictures, but it's horrendous fugly metal. I think I'll stick with Adium.

ManOfSteal · Jan 13, 2005, 12:58 PM

From the article...

"Microsoft's Entourage update package will be delivered during the first half of 2004; MSN Messenger for Mac 5.0 is also expected to meet that deadline."

D'oh!

xi_hyperon · Jan 13, 2005, 01:01 PM

Anyone tried the Exchange tools that Mactopia has for download now?

ManOfSteal · Jan 13, 2005, 01:11 PM

Originally posted by xi_hyperon:
Anyone tried the Exchange tools that Mactopia has for download now?

Have a link?

OptimusG4 · Jan 13, 2005, 01:12 PM

great, more brushed metal

kenazo · Jan 13, 2005, 01:19 PM

MSN Messenger for Mac is so out of touch it is an absolute joke. Never mind no webcam support it doesn't even support voice conversations which was available in what? 2000? for Messenger on PC.

aMSN is supposedly looking at integrating at least voice and maybe webcam support in the near future.

Sarc · Jan 13, 2005, 01:21 PM

new face, same crap.

DarwinX · Jan 13, 2005, 01:26 PM

Yeah, Adium has become my client of choice as well. It would be nice to get an on par experience with the PC side as far as MSN is concerned. Oh well, such is life apparently.

E's Lil Theorem · Jan 13, 2005, 02:00 PM

At least it is being updated. AOL AIM hasn't been updated in about a year.

Disgruntled Head of C-3PO · Jan 13, 2005, 02:07 PM

I bet it will just be a smiley upgrade.

xi_hyperon · Jan 13, 2005, 02:49 PM

Originally posted by ManOfSteal:
Have a link?

Here you go, but apparently it's only a beta tool for importing .PST files. Let me know how it worked if you give it a try.

linky

willed · Jan 13, 2005, 02:52 PM

Originally posted by E's Lil Theorem:
At least it is being updated. AOL AIM hasn't been updated in about a year.

Why bother when you have iChat? (That does support AIM doesn't it? I have to use MSN like most Europeans)

Visnaut · Jan 13, 2005, 02:55 PM

Not to be outdone, MSN's Messenger product group has designed its own improvements.

Actually, they have been outdone, by Adium et al. That's nice that they're building in all that corporate messaging stuff, but in terms of actual improvements, all I can see is MSN6 avatar support. And Christ, that has to be the biggest Send button outside of a webpage I've ever seen. I think they make it bigger with every release, when there's clearly no need for it.

And that quote above makes it seem like there's an actual group of programmers whose sole job is to work on messenger. My question to them is: what the hell do you do all year? Between version 3 and 4, they added *smilies* and a few hook-ins to Office. Lame. And now metal windows, a bigger send button, and avatar support, which has existed in third-party messengers for a while now, is all they have to show for themselves.

I'm grateful they still even try, after all, if newbs and switchers didn't find an official client, they'd assume there isn't "MSN for MAC". But the lack of effort spent by the BMU shows through pretty badly. Technically, I can't really blame them, it's not like Microsoft makes any money off of MSN, besides the dinky lil ads at the bottom.

By the time this comes out, Adium will probably have full MSN status support, which will give me no reason to even bother with this.

ManOfSteal · Jan 13, 2005, 03:19 PM

Originally posted by xi_hyperon:
Here you go, but apparently it's only a beta tool for importing .PST files. Let me know how it worked if you give it a try.

linky

Oh, I don't need that. The new Exchange Tools won't be available until the 2nd half of 2005 supposedly.

mitchell_pgh · Jan 13, 2005, 03:25 PM

Originally posted by ManOfSteal:
Oh, I don't need that. The new Exchange Tools won't be available until the 2nd half of 2005 supposedly.

Ugh... they are so far behind...

Wiskedjak · Jan 13, 2005, 03:32 PM

Originally posted by willed:
Why bother when you have iChat? (That does support AIM doesn't it? I have to use MSN like most Europeans)

Yes, iChat communicates with AIM, but AIM's video chat window is about the size of the thumbnail view in iChat. AIM video chat is unusable.

xi_hyperon · Jan 13, 2005, 07:15 PM

Originally posted by ManOfSteal:
Oh, I don't need that. The new Exchange Tools won't be available until the 2nd half of 2005 supposedly.

Yeah, sorry for that. I was hoping it was more.

Adam Betts · Jan 13, 2005, 09:51 PM

'Send' button is still way too small

willed · Jan 14, 2005, 04:15 AM

Originally posted by Adam Betts:
'Send' button is still way too small

OMG that's ridiculous! Especially considering that only people as computer illiterate as my mum would actually use the send button (i.e. click it) rather than pressing return. I think it deserves an award for most redundant interface design feature.

Alezone · Jan 14, 2005, 05:14 AM

if MSN on mac is as good as the one on PC, a lot of people will become switcher. A lot of people use their computer mainly for MSN and browser.

OreoCookie · Jan 14, 2005, 06:36 AM

Originally posted by DarwinX:
Did anyone else see this?

http://www.betanews.com/article/Micr...ger/1105589384

Still no webcam support??? Why is this such a problem?

Political reasons. The Mac would be a full-fledged alternative to Windows then, wouldn't it?

If there is no webcam support, I'll stick to AdiumX (best user interface on OS X, together with Keynote)!

Twilly Spree · Jan 14, 2005, 08:00 AM

I'm mildly excited. Pleasantly surprised MS decided to go with actual Mac OS X look instead of the usual -- like the XP-ish skin that is default oon WiMP 9 for Mac

joltguy · Jan 14, 2005, 08:20 AM

The only way I could possibly care less about this update would be if iChat had built in MSN support. Until that happens, Adium is king.

Oh well, at least this update will give the official client a (mostly) Mac-like interface.

nooon · Jan 14, 2005, 11:43 AM

Originally posted by joltguy:
The only way I could possibly care less about this update would be if iChat had built in MSN support. Until that happens, Adium is king.

Filetransfers still suck in Adium, though.

Geo669 · Jan 15, 2005, 02:47 AM

Originally posted by nooon:
Filetransfers still suck in Adium, though.

This is my major problem with it.

And the fact that you cant have more than one person in a convo at once.

OwlBoy · Jan 15, 2005, 02:58 AM

Originally posted by Adam Betts:
'Send' button is still way too small

haha I was gonna post the same thing!

-Owl

Geo669 · Jan 15, 2005, 03:06 AM

Cant they just make something that looks nice?

No. they cant.

Xeo · Jan 15, 2005, 03:19 AM

Originally posted by Geo669:
This is my major problem with it.

And the fact that you cant have more than one person in a convo at once.

You mean group text chat? I've done that many times in Adium.

File transfers could be more reliable though. I'm using an version built from svn and file transfers seem to be better, at least having a progress bar and auto-accept.

Superchicken · Jan 15, 2005, 04:07 AM

If they add HTTPS proxy support like the PC I'll use it at school. Currently I use Adium for MSN and iChat for AIM. That said if iChat will support Jabber Gateways like I hear and I'll be able to use MSN then I'll be very happy!

Angus_D · Jan 15, 2005, 07:57 AM

Originally posted by Xeo:
You mean group text chat? I've done that many times in Adium.

It's a bit dodgy, and it seems you can't invite people properly.

moonmonkey · Jan 15, 2005, 08:35 AM

I think it looks good apart from the send button, I'm sure by 2007 will need to press F7 to see the whole thing. I would prefer to use it than some "Multi Purpose" Shareware IM app.
It is really too little too late, but I think the Mac BU at MS are doing as good a job as they are permitted to do.

I can't wait for this release, its been a long time coming, and lets keep quiet before Gates realizes he's giving it away for free.

nooon · Jan 15, 2005, 01:04 PM

Well, I hope that when iChat Tiger (with Jabber-support) is released, I won't be needing anything else.

Geo669 · Jan 15, 2005, 09:12 PM

Originally posted by Xeo:
You mean group text chat? I've done that many times in Adium.

File transfers could be more reliable though. I'm using an version built from svn and file transfers seem to be better, at least having a progress bar and auto-accept.

I dont care for auto-accept, although it is nice. But a progress bar is essential.

I'm hoping that iChat supports MSN, then its goodbye to the official MSN client, and another goodbye to adium. Unless they work something out that in some way, maybe just maybe, if we hope really hard. There will be a progress bar when you send files.

Elvin · Feb 18, 2005, 06:27 PM

It doesn't look too bad, at least there aren't any advertisements yet on the Mac client.

I hope one day iChat handles MSN, then the MBU can drop MSN just like they did with Internet Explorer and just let Apple make the better product.

OptimusG4 · Feb 18, 2005, 07:23 PM

Originally posted by Elvin:
It doesn't look too bad, at least there aren't any advertisements yet on the Mac client.

I hope one day iChat handles MSN, then the MBU can drop MSN just like they did with Internet Explorer and just let Apple make the better product.

Actually if you don't own Office, there are ads in MSN messenger. With Office installed, you have the option to turn off the ads.

brutal · Feb 19, 2005, 11:33 AM

Originally posted by OptimusG4:
Actually if you don't own Office, there are ads in MSN messenger. With Office installed, you have the option to turn off the ads.

It's strange that nobody has made a patch for this.

Angus_D · Feb 19, 2005, 01:17 PM

Originally posted by brutal:
It's strange that nobody has made a patch for this.

Maybe because the people that care already use Adium or aMSN?

CaptainHaddock · Feb 21, 2005, 09:47 PM

Adium 0.77 is out now. Still no improvements to file transfers.

Xeo, you said your build had auto-accept and progress bars? When will those features make the official Adium releases? Alternatively, where can someone get builds with these features turned on?

ApeInTheShell · Feb 22, 2005, 12:24 AM

I think cross-platform developers often ignore the rules of user interface in Mac OS X and don't bother to take advantage of the tools available. MSN 5.0 looks like iTunes for Mac OS 9. Compare iTunes from then to now and you'll see what I'm talking about.
If they are interested in selling MSN internet service they should offer the bare minimum in their messenger like web cams, smileys...etc and the premium corporate things they are attempting to offer us now can be in the MSN internet service.

King Bob On The Cob · Feb 22, 2005, 01:33 AM

Originally posted by CaptainHaddock:
Adium 0.77 is out now. Still no improvements to file transfers.

Xeo, you said your build had auto-accept and progress bars? When will those features make the official Adium releases? Alternatively, where can someone get builds with these features turned on?

http://www.adiumx.com/development.php
follow the instructions to get and use the SVN copy of Adium.

RevEvs · Feb 22, 2005, 02:26 AM

Originally posted by CaptainHaddock:
Adium 0.77 is out now. Still no improvements to file transfers.

Xeo, you said your build had auto-accept and progress bars? When will those features make the official Adium releases? Alternatively, where can someone get builds with these features turned on?

These features will be in the 0.8 release.

adiumx.com states that .77 is "The last release of the Adium X 0.7x series", so 0.8 should be with us next!

Graymalkin · Feb 22, 2005, 03:57 AM

MSN for the Mac has sucked mightily for as long as I've ever used it (a long while). The Mac version lags behind the Windows version for much the same reason WMP does, Microsoft does not want to make the alternative too tempting.

For my MSN Messengering I've been turning to AdiumX. Messenger gets reeeeally slow if you've been talking to someone for an extended period of time without clearing the buffer. The message windows also waste an obscene amount of screen real estate, a precious commodity on a 12" Powerbook screen. AdiumX has been slowly replacing iChat as my preferred AIM client as well. I really like how iChat runs but I find myself rarely if ever using its AV features. Without the AV iChat is just-another-AIM-client. While I'm not necessarily big into theming the ability to stylize Adium to a high degree is cool because I get it looking like something I actually want to use.

The newest Adium release (v0.77) is pretty solid and I'm a fan. It is really functional and lets me log into not only AIM and MSN but also my .Mac account and systems I've never even heard of. Fire is also pretty cool but is a little less visually likable than Adium. Two features Fire has I appriciate is IRC support and client-client encryption. While Adium doesn't necessarily need IRC support, encryption would be a welcome addition. If my choice was between better file transfers and encryption however I think I would have to go with better file transfers.

CaptainHaddock · Feb 22, 2005, 04:38 PM

Originally posted by King Bob On The Cob:
http://www.adiumx.com/development.php
follow the instructions to get and use the SVN copy of Adium.

I'm not really interested in installing Fink or any development tools. I was just hoping to find a site that offers Adium builds with these beta features.

bergy · Feb 22, 2005, 08:32 PM

Prediction ..

MSN will NEVER have webcam ability or if it does it will be so hobbled as to be useless ..

Reason? ... I'm a good example ..

I have had to buy 2 pcs for my teenagers because the main thing they care about their computers doing is to be able to make full use of MSN ... end of story ...
That's what ALL their friends use and any other alternative is a non issue

Multiply my story a few million times and you get the idea ...
I"m assuming when they go to university they will be so windowized they won't even consider a Mac ..

Bwaaaahaaaahaaaa

jasong · Feb 22, 2005, 09:43 PM

I've submitted feedback to MBU about the send button. I've asked them to make it bigger since my blind, quadrapalegic uncle is unable to hit the send button using the mouse he controls with his teeth. Seems he is the only one however . . .

-- Jason

King Bob On The Cob · Feb 22, 2005, 09:44 PM

Originally posted by CaptainHaddock:
I'm not really interested in installing Fink or any development tools. I was just hoping to find a site that offers Adium builds with these beta features.

If you aren't interested in helping develop, Beta/Alpha builds are not for you...