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What size APC (UPS) for G5 Quad?
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sray
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Nov 12, 2005, 01:21 PM
 
I have a G5 Quad (with the Quadro FX 4500 card and two drives) on order. It will be connected to a 30" ACD. What size UPS (in Watts) do I need to buy? I have a strong preference for the APC brand, but I'm having trouble translating Apple's power requirements.

On their website, Apple says that the G5 quad requires "Maximum current: At least 10A (low-voltage range) or 5A (high-voltage range)". I think an APC Back-UPS RS 1500 (1500VA/865W) should do the trick. This is going for around $177.

I would appreciate any help translating 10A (low voltage), 5A (high voltage) into either VA or Watts.
     
mduell
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Nov 12, 2005, 01:32 PM
 
Use the APC UPS selector. For your setup, the Back-UPS RS 1500VA is the first recommendation.
I have an APC Smart-UPS 1400VA on its second battery that I've used for years... great during thunderstorm season.
( Last edited by mduell; Nov 12, 2005 at 01:55 PM. )
     
MattiMattMatt
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Nov 12, 2005, 01:44 PM
 
it would be nice if the RS 1500VA/856W was sufficient.

(I'm in the same boat and that looks like a nice, little unit).

I was also looking at the APC SUA1500VA which is beefier and explicitly says it outputs a sine wave - makes me wonder if the smaller unit doesn't.

Check out: http://apc.com/resource/include/tech...se_sku=SUA1500

The 1500Va is also more expensive - around $500.
     
Al G
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Nov 12, 2005, 02:47 PM
 
Originally Posted by sray
I have a G5 Quad (with the Quadro FX 4500 card and two drives) on order. It will be connected to a 30" ACD. What size UPS (in Watts) do I need to buy? I have a strong preference for the APC brand, but I'm having trouble translating Apple's power requirements.

On their website, Apple says that the G5 quad requires "Maximum current: At least 10A (low-voltage range) or 5A (high-voltage range)". I think an APC Back-UPS RS 1500 (1500VA/865W) should do the trick. This is going for around $177.

I would appreciate any help translating 10A (low voltage), 5A (high voltage) into either VA or Watts.
Low voltage is 120V (U.S.) and high voltage is 200-240V (Euro, etc.).

10A at 120V is 1200 watts. Ouch. But that's the theoretical maximum and I doubt it will draw that much (at least not for more than a fraction of a second) no matter how much you stuff into it.

As an example, I have a previous dual 2.3 (single core). It has a 600W power supply. With two hard drives, lots of RAM and a 9800XT, the most it draws is 332 watts.

(Just a guess but I think your Quadro will probably be pretty power hungry. My 9800XT pulls 46 watts more than the 9600 it replaced. I could see the Quadro sucking an extra 100 watts.)
Your Mac could help understand and cure disease
     
mduell
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Nov 12, 2005, 03:04 PM
 
Originally Posted by Al G
Low voltage is 120V (U.S.) and high voltage is 200-240V (Euro, etc.).

10A at 120V is 1200 watts. Ouch. But that's the theoretical maximum and I doubt it will draw that much (at least not for more than a fraction of a second) no matter how much you stuff into it.
This is AC, not DC.
10A at 120V is 1200VA, which is ~850W

The Quadro can use no more than 150W (the max for PCIe).
     
sray  (op)
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Nov 12, 2005, 03:06 PM
 
Thanks to everyone, in particular, Al G, for translating this into simple english for me.

Apple claims that it delivers 150 watts to the primary GPU. I think they are referring to the Quadro in this case.

I will go ahead and get the APC 1500.
     
Thinine
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Nov 12, 2005, 03:27 PM
 
I was going to look into a UPS for my quad as well. Glad someone got there first.
     
crooner
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Nov 12, 2005, 04:22 PM
 
Originally Posted by mduell
Use the APC UPS selector. For your setup, the Back-UPS RS 1500VA is the first recommendation.
I have an APC Smart-UPS 1400VA on its second battery that I've used for years... great during thunderstorm season.

This is excellent advise.

I, too, just put a second battery in my Smart-UPS 1500 that I've had since 1998. It was expensive but worth it's weight in gold (and man is it heavy).

During one power outage it kept my dual QuickSilver, several external drives and my PowerBook running for twenty minutes before it auto-shutdown my system for me. Extremely cool.

Bottom line, get the most powerful unit you can afford. It ain't a sexy purchase. But it's a necessary one.

To dislike Sinatra is a sign of highly questionable taste. To dislike the Beatles is a serious character flaw.
     
bbales
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Nov 12, 2005, 09:30 PM
 
Beyond wattage, be sure to consider how many plugs you get on the "battery backup" side. I discovered, too late, that I didn't really have enough. I could run the computer, the monitor and I don't remember what else, but not the mouse! That was on a hub. I ended up having to buy another unit so I could plug in everything that needed juice. (And I just got a new monitor, replacing an Apple Studio Display which did NOT need a separate plug; the new one does. And now I've got to rearrange everything so the monitor can be on a battery outlet. Of course, our lights just flickered and I haven't done it yet.)

So check your outlets and make sure you have enough for everything. Keep in mind that many plugs are those giant ones that will take up two spaces, so you wont' get as many spots as you think. Unfair, but true.
     
mduell
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Nov 12, 2005, 11:18 PM
 
Originally Posted by bbales
Beyond wattage, be sure to consider how many plugs you get on the "battery backup" side. I discovered, too late, that I didn't really have enough. I could run the computer, the monitor and I don't remember what else, but not the mouse! That was on a hub. I ended up having to buy another unit so I could plug in everything that needed juice. (And I just got a new monitor, replacing an Apple Studio Display which did NOT need a separate plug; the new one does. And now I've got to rearrange everything so the monitor can be on a battery outlet. Of course, our lights just flickered and I haven't done it yet.)
The recommended UPS has 6 battery-backed plugs.
You could have bought an unpowered hub instead of another UPS.
     
westrock
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Nov 13, 2005, 02:17 AM
 
I think I saw on the Apple website the 30" ACD is spec'ed at 150Watts.

I got my first UPS about a year ago. Its a very small one and I use it on the Mini and 2 external harddrives. It has performed flawless during those late night thunderstorms....sometimes the Mini is the only thing powered in my house

I think I only paid like $40 for my UPS.....don't know why I never got one before
     
MattiMattMatt
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Nov 13, 2005, 02:16 PM
 
It seems as if two potentially nice choices would be:

The APC RS 1500VA/856W for around $200,

or

The APC SUA1500VA for around $500.

Does anyone who understands this stuff better than I do (that's probably most of you) have any strong feelings that one of these is much better than the other? I'd rather buy the cheaper one because it's cheaper, smaller, and lighter, but are there features of the more expensive one that justify its price/weight/size?

Also, do anyone of you know about the virtues of sine wave output? i do music stuff, and know that sine wave power sources are favored over square waves, but I'm not sure if it makes a difference for a computer, even one that is used for music. The more expensive UPS is advertised as sine wave, the less expensive one doesn't mention it, so it probably is a square wave. Thoughts?

TIA,

MattiMattMatt
     
mduell
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Nov 13, 2005, 02:36 PM
 
Originally Posted by MattiMattMatt
It seems as if two potentially nice choices would be:

The APC RS 1500VA/856W for around $200,

or

The APC SUA1500VA for around $500.

Does anyone who understands this stuff better than I do (that's probably most of you) have any strong feelings that one of these is much better than the other? I'd rather buy the cheaper one because it's cheaper, smaller, and lighter, but are there features of the more expensive one that justify its price/weight/size?

Also, do anyone of you know about the virtues of sine wave output? i do music stuff, and know that sine wave power sources are favored over square waves, but I'm not sure if it makes a difference for a computer, even one that is used for music. The more expensive UPS is advertised as sine wave, the less expensive one doesn't mention it, so it probably is a square wave. Thoughts?
The $200 is from the Back UPS series, the $500 one is from the Smart UPS series. The former is more of a consumer UPS while the latter is targeted toward business.
The Smart UPS adds a few features like being generator compatible, network manageable, predictive failure notification, all the ports are battery backed, and temperature-compensated battery charging. Much of the weight is from a bigger battery (longer run time).
But the Back UPS has some features that the Smart UPS doesn't like replacing the battery without tools, a lifetime data recovery warranty, and surge protection for network cables.
I wouldn't worry too much about the output wave.
     
ghporter
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Nov 13, 2005, 03:21 PM
 
The "on battery" output of an UPS is typically a "chopped sinewave," which is to say it's a simulated sinewave. In most cases, this is not any concern. Just about every computer power supply in existence since 1990 or so is a switching power supply which does not really care whether its input is a sinewave or not. I'm running just about every electronic device in my house on UPSs, and have never had a problem.

Glenn -----OTR/L, MOT, Tx
     
Reddog99
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Nov 14, 2005, 02:48 PM
 
For some reason Apple doesn't want to get too specific in their power consumption specs. That "10A" power spec is the same they use for the dual G5-2.5.

I've been using a power measurement meter the my dual G5-2.5 (9600XT, 2 drives) while using Folding @ Home, and found that it draws about 330-350 watts full tilt.

Pat
     
MattiMattMatt
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Nov 15, 2005, 12:46 PM
 
Thanks for the responses! They're very helpful.

GHPORTER: May i ask a follow up question?

You say:

The "on battery" output of an UPS is typically a "chopped sinewave," which is to say it's a simulated sinewave.

What i gather this means - and please correct me if I'm wrong - is that when APC advertises a "sine wave" output for particular models, they are only talking about the output when it is "on battery." Therefore, at all other times, there is no sine wave benefit over another model since "off battery" they all default to sine wave.

Is this right?

It would certainly minimize the value of a "sine wave" model if it only concerned the occassional times when the unit's output had switched from wall to battery.

My interest in this is because I would want to plug in some musical devices (e.g. an RME Fireface audio interface) that would probably prefer a juicy ol' sinewave.

Thanks very much

MattimattMatt
     
ghporter
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Nov 15, 2005, 02:28 PM
 
Actually, in most cases an UPS conditions the power 100% of the time, so what you get is "processed" power-spike free and clean. In many cases (in some brands it's in all cases) this means that the output 100% of the time is a "chopped sinewave" which basically looks like a stairstep shape. However, when running on the battery, some lower-end UPSs have less smooth outputs than when they're running on commercial power.

On the other hand, if APC says it's a "sinewave" output, that means they filter the output so that it's pretty darn close to being a true sinewave, and that would be 100% of the time, too.

Does that help?

Glenn -----OTR/L, MOT, Tx
     
MattiMattMatt
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Nov 15, 2005, 06:05 PM
 
Thanks GH. That does help.

Not to belabor but to report:

I called APC today and asked them to compare these 2 models, particularly with respect to sine wave (The APC RS 1500VA/856W for around $200 vs. the APC SUA1500VA for around $500.)

The guy on the phone seemed to be saying that when the UPS did not switch to battery power, the wave was a cleaned-up sine wave from the wall. When the UPS switched to battery power, the cheaper of the units would not provide a sine wave.

This was all to steer me to the cheaper of the models - that that would be sufficient for the quad, and even for music gear, as long as the battery was not triggered. (which is nice).

You are suggesting that the cheaper of the units may provide a chopped sine wave 100% of the time even when it is off battery.

Do you know if this is the case?

No worries if you don't - I may get the cheaper unit just for the computer, which does not require a true sine wave, and then get some other power conditioner for my finicky mic pres and a/d converters.

Thanks,

Matt
     
ghporter
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Nov 16, 2005, 09:38 AM
 
I wasn't suggesting that APC's less expensive units provide less sinewave-like power at any time. I was reporting that some brands other than APC don't produce as smooth an output. In my experience it seems that the "cleaned up" power you get from good-quality UPSs is still very thoroughly processed, and some brands (no, I can't remember names right now: mental block caused by bad experiences!) clean up the power by producing a synthetic sinewave all the time-without much filtering, since computer power supplies really don't care. I'd stick with brands like APC and Tripplite that have solid reputations and guarantees with as little fine print as possible.

I've worked with UPSs from little 200VA boxes for a single (small) desktop computer up through units that are the size of a walk-in cooler and that power safety-of-flight critical airfield systems. Brands like APC work harder at making good products that have clean, smooth outputs.

Glenn -----OTR/L, MOT, Tx
     
MattiMattMatt
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Nov 16, 2005, 10:32 AM
 
Thanks!

I understand.

-MMM
     
dgatwood
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Dec 20, 2005, 01:23 PM
 
I just had my new quad G5 wake from sleep in the night on a power blink. XS1500 went into overload and shut it off. Either my UPS is defective or the RS1500 (which has the same max wattage specs as the XS1500) should be insufficient, too.
     
   
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