[monkeybrain]

Originally posted by K++:
Xerox PARC. They had them in there long before Apple took the entire GUI from them, Apple took them out to simplify the OS and removed the extra mosue buttons. PARC had three buttons and menus on the second, clicking on the first and the third did something else.

That's similar to Risc OS isn't it? That had all the menues under the middle mouse button, no menubar (in windows or elsewhere) to be seen. Used a dock-like thing as well I think.

[Big Mac]

Originally posted by K++:
Xerox PARC. They had them in there long before Apple took the entire GUI from them, Apple took them out to simplify the OS and removed the extra mosue buttons. PARC had three buttons and menus on the second, clicking on the first and the third did something else.

K++, you're propagating an urban myth, and Bill Gates thanks you for it. PARC's GUI was absolutely primitive in comparison to the Mac. Go over to folklore.org and learn the facts.

[cybergoober]

When running fsck in single-user mode, if the disk needs to be repaired, the file system check automatically runs again.

[Gavin]

Originally posted by Big Mac:
K++, you're propagating an urban myth, and Bill Gates thanks you for it. PARC's GUI was absolutely primitive in comparison to the Mac. Go over to folklore.org and learn the facts.

So primitive that the way I heard it was that Xerox never showed the real thing to anyone because it didn't actually work, just bits and pieces but nothing worth looking at. The people from apple were shown an animation of the concept, then they went home and made it work.

[diamondsw]

Originally posted by TETENAL:
Internet Explorer 5 was released (with this kind of toolbar) long before Aqua was ever showed. I remember Steve proudly saying that the Carbon port of Internet Explorer automatically got the Aqua appearance "even though we never showed Aqua to Microsoft before".

Aqua appeared in Mac OS X DP3, Internet Explorer 5 was released over a month later.

Apple demoed DP3 at MacWorld Expo SF in January, 2000. Microsoft had already shown/leaked builds of IE5 using the previous IE 4.5-style toolbar. As I recall, they were there at the expo with an "Aquafied" look, but had added it at the last minute. All it consisted of was a couple of hex values for the striping pattern and new icons. All of the underlying structure was identical (I should know - I reverse-engineered the format - see 8-24-98).

[diamondsw]

Originally posted by TETENAL:


This is what the toolbar looked like in DP3 (2000-01). It only later mimicked the one of Internet Explorer 5.

In the Finder only (which until very recently had its own custom-awful toolbar implementation). In other applications (Mail, for example) it was designed like the one we use today.

[Peabo]

Originally posted by diamondsw:
Aqua appeared in Mac OS X DP3, Internet Explorer 5 was released over a month later.

Apple demoed DP3 at MacWorld Expo SF in January, 2000. Microsoft had already shown/leaked builds of IE5 using the previous IE 4.5-style toolbar. As I recall, they were there at the expo with an "Aquafied" look, but had added it at the last minute. All it consisted of was a couple of hex values for the striping pattern and new icons. All of the underlying structure was identical (I should know - I reverse-engineered the format - see 8-24-98).

Yes but DP3 (and all subsequent versions up until and including the public beta) used the big, shiny, square buttons in the toolbar. The new one that looked like IE 5 came about in 4k17, or the version of 10.0 that was demo'd at Macworld SF 2001!

Anyways, that toolbar is gone now so what does it matter, eh?

[michaelb]

Originally posted by Gavin:
So primitive that the way I heard it was that Xerox never showed the real thing to anyone because it didn't actually work, just bits and pieces but nothing worth looking at. The people from apple were shown an animation of the concept, then they went home and made it work.

Exactly. Even things like the "regions" behind obscured windows, which were apparently very hard to do. One of the original developers, I think Bill Atkinson, spent many hours agonising over how Xerox had done it and finally come up with his own solution. Then later he learnt that Xerox hadn't conquered regions at all - it was all just a concept test!

However, credit where credit's due. Those concepts were valuable starting points, and Xerox was financially rewarded by Apple giving them substantial share parcels. Unlike Microsoft, who ripped off the Macintosh APIs directly, and as a reward almost drove the company out of existence.

Gavin, you live in Seattle and you like Macs?! I can imagine that is like living in hell and liking to go ice skating!

[Gavin]

More like being in heaven and finding out the devil owns all the pizza joints.

There is a bit of a sickening hero worshiping thing that's pervasive here. Their press releases actually get TV coverage on the local news stations. On the other hand when you say your friend works for the 'evil empire' everybody knows what you mean.

The funny thing is that there are probably more macs here per capita than most places.

[mamamia]

Originally posted by Gavin:
On the other hand when you say your friend works for the 'evil empire' everybody knows what you mean.

I don't know about you, but where I come from, the "evil empire" stands for the yankees.

Go sox!