[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

Ummm. That wasn't an example - that was the first step in changing your mindset to one of freedom rather than slavery.

I completely get it. Unfortunately, I don't think you realize how much it reinforces the point opposite of yours:

When you have vaster resources of money, one is freer to adopt a mindset of freedom rather than slavery.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by Wiskedjak 

I completely get it. Unfortunately, I don't think you realize how much it reinforces the point opposite of yours:

When you have vaster resources of money, one is freer to adopt a mindset of freedom rather than slavery.

Untrue. Sledgehammers cost the same whether you're rich or poor - less than an average family McD's meal.
The resources differential only comes into play if you intend to go and buy another TV when you've done it - which defeats the point in doing it.

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

The resources differential only comes into play if you intend to go and buy another TV when you've done it - which defeats the point in doing it.

True. Many weathly people are bound to *that* slavery as well.

[Waragainstsleep]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

Let me expand a little:

Most people here is Shitain have their savings in a 3% account.

Really poor people don't have savings.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep 

Really poor people don't have savings.

I know. It's hard to have savings when you go and buy a 52" plasma and subscribe to the full 1,000 channels of shite package with Sky.

My car is dirty. So far, nobody has knocked on my door and offered to wash it for a fiver. Therefore, there are no really poor people in the UK.

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

I know. It's hard to have savings when you go and buy a 52" plasma and subscribe to the full 1,000 channels of shite package with Sky.

My car is dirty. So far, nobody has knocked on my door and offered to wash it for a fiver. Therefore, there are no really poor people in the UK.

Most really poor people don't have 52" plasmas. I will admit that some do, but not most.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by Wiskedjak 

Most really poor people don't have 52" plasmas. I will admit that some do, but not most.

You're right. They're on 60 inchers nowadays.

[Waragainstsleep]

You have the wrong idea about poor people. Poor people actually have jobs but they lose half of their salary in one form of tax or another. They have to have things like cars in order to get to work because public transport is shit and not really much/any cheaper when you use it every day. They might even own their own houses. Technically.

You are thinking of the people who claim to be poor but get a free roof over their heads, and the heads of their many kids. Who don't have to work at all but somehow still have money for booze, cigarettes, lottery scratch cards Sky Sports and the local bookies. Those people don't have money to put in savings because what doesn't go on the above goes on paying off the finance on their Argos 60" TVs (Does anyone buy plasma anymore?), so you are right in that respect. These people think they are poor but I agree with you that they aren't.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep 

You have the wrong idea about poor people. Poor people actually have jobs but they lose half of their salary in one form of tax or another. They have to have things like cars in order to get to work because public transport is shit and not really much/any cheaper when you use it every day. They might even own their own houses. Technically.

I thought we were talking about "really poor people", not your average peasant.
And of course, your average peasant these days still buys loads of crap they don't need from Argos.

Like I said. Slaves.

[mattyb]

I'd really like to stop being a slave, not just from the TV (which I hardly ever watch because Frog TV is really really shite), but from what I consider are the 'consequences' of being Mr. Normal : Married, 2 kids, 2 cars, mortgage, job etc. There is however my extreme need to limit risk - I blame my father.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by mattyb 

I'd really like to stop being a slave, not just from the TV (which I hardly ever watch because Frog TV is really really shite), but from what I consider are the 'consequences' of being Mr. Normal : Married, 2 kids, 2 cars, mortgage, job etc. There is however my extreme need to limit risk - I blame my father.

Go to Amsterdam and be a man whore!

Or email me and tell me about your database skillz. I'm in need. Profit split.

[nobull]

Originally Posted by lpkmckenna 

Neither of these appears to be even close to the truth. In fact, I'll bet all four percentages are completely wrong.

You would br wrong...

[nobull]

Originally Posted by hyteckit 

Table A-2. Employment status of the civilian population by race, sex, and age

Unemployment rate From BLS:

Code:

White
2010    9.6 9.7 9.3 8.6 8.5 8.7 8.7 8.6 8.3 8.1 8.4 8.3 8.7
2011    8.8 8.7 8.3

Black
2010    17.3    16.2    16.6    15.9    15.3    15.6    16.6    16.3    15.9    15.2    15.4    15.2    16.0
2011    16.5    15.6    15.5

Historical Unemployment rate

Where can I find the unemployment rate for previous years?

re-read my post..

[subego]

You mean "reread the post I stole."

[smacintush]

Originally Posted by olePigeon 

It's not what capitalism is about, but it is in human nature. We have thousands of years of evidence that points to one group controlling the majority of wealth forcing the rest into servitude.

Thousands of years of wealth being acquired through force. The key characteristic of capitalism, when properly free from government coercion, is that it is 100% voluntary and protects people's rights. You can't be forced into servitude in a system based upon voluntary relationships.

Free market capitalism evolves into neo-fuedalism very quickly without a checks and balance system.

You keep repeating this lie.

This ridiculous fallacy that in order for one person to gain wealth, another must necessarily lose wealth, needs to die.

[CRASH HARDDRIVE]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

If anyone wants to understand what I'm talking about, go and grab a sledgehammer and put it through your TV - right now. You won't... Because you're a slave with a slave mentality.

No thanks. I'm a business owner, and an employee, and modestly well-invested. And I happen to enjoy a good movie or TV show now and then. (Honestly, who doesn't?)

So putting a sledge hammer through perfectly good entertainment equipment is just a waste of money. And stupid.

[CRASH HARDDRIVE]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

My car is dirty.

Put a sledge hammer through the windshield and get back to us. Free your mind.

[Monique]

If the rich were so generous you would not need welfare; and it is a myth that people want to be on welfare and it is a skin color issue.

You are not racist just a conservative that thing everyone can do it by themselves and no one need help.

The only thing I am agreeing with you is affirmative action, time has past and it is not time to give it a rest.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by CRASH HARDDRIVE 

Put a sledge hammer through the windshield and get back to us. Free your mind.

I think you're missing the point Crash. My car doesn't spew adverts at me for crap I don't need.

[CRASH HARDDRIVE]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

I think you're missing the point Crash. My car doesn't spew adverts at me for crap I don't need.

It allows you to drive past billboards for crap you don't need. The Man got you right where he wants you.

[lpkmckenna]

Originally Posted by smacintush 

Thousands of years of wealth being acquired through force. The key characteristic of capitalism, when properly free from government coercion...

In other words, a system that doesn't exist. For example, the constant extension of IP way beyond what is reasonable is coercion. Another example, when the gov't given billions to the military-industrial complex far beyond what is reasonable, that is coercion. Another example, when the gov't bans some kinds of drugs to protect the market for other kinds of drugs, that is coercion. Another example, when the gov't blocks the import of sugar from the Caribbean and subsidizes the American corn industry, that is coercion. I could go on and on and on.....

There are literally millions of wealthy Americans who made their wealth thru the coercion of gov't policy, and stuff millions into the mouths of politicians for even more power. The system of capitalism you believe in doesn't exist.

The worst tragedy: libertarians like you spend almost no time discussing these egregious crimes, but you whine and moan about art grants and welfare moms without end.

This ridiculous fallacy that in order for one person to gain wealth, another must necessarily lose wealth, needs to die.

On the contrary, it happens every day. See above.

[ebuddy]

Originally Posted by Wiskedjak 

Most really poor people don't have 52" plasmas. I will admit that some do, but not most.

True, but let's consider what they do have including more than one vehicle, cable or satellite tv, air conditioning, microwave, nearly half actually own their homes and the average home owned by persons classified as poor by the Census Bureau is a three-bedroom house with 1.5 baths, a garage, porch or patio, and more sq footage of living space than the average individual living in Paris, London, Vienna, Athens, and other cities throughout Europe. More than a third have a dishwasher, virtually the same consumption of vitamins and minerals as the middle class and in fact consume more than 100% the recommended daily allowance of protein on average, and more than a third with both a landline and cellular phone service. The majority cause of poverty? Parents who aren't working and absent fathers. Statistically, the typical poor household with children is supported by an average 16 hours of work per week. By working 40 hours per week, nearly 75% of children living at poverty level would be lifted out.

So no, we're not providing a "tired old comparison between people in the US and people abroad", but citing how much better a lifestyle is being lived in the US as "poor" than virtually anywhere else on the globe. This comes at a price and that price is an increasing income disparity between rich and poor which again has zero to do with quality of life among both.

The poor here will not admit it because A. They're on a computer, likely an expensive Mac B. They're still mired in angsty "damn the man" youth or... C. Do not want to be held to account for their monetary behaviors that would decidedly indicate exactly why they remain poor.

[smacintush]

Originally Posted by lpkmckenna 

In other words, a system that doesn't exist. For example, the constant extension of IP way beyond what is reasonable is coercion. Another example, when the gov't given billions to the military-industrial complex far beyond what is reasonable, that is coercion. Another example, when the gov't bans some kinds of drugs to protect the market for other kinds of drugs, that is coercion. Another example, when the gov't blocks the import of sugar from the Caribbean and subsidizes the American corn industry, that is coercion. I could go on and on and on.....

There are literally millions of wealthy Americans who made their wealth thru the coercion of gov't policy, and stuff millions into the mouths of politicians for even more power. The system of capitalism you believe in doesn't exist.

Without quibbling over the details of your examples, I agree. People with blind faith in the benevolence and competence of the government, combined with an irrational hatred and mistrust of everyone who has something that they themselves don't have, would never allow it.

It's a shame.

The worst tragedy: libertarians like you spend almost no time discussing these egregious crimes, but you whine and moan about art grants and welfare moms without end.

I'm not a Libertarian (though, I may have referred to myself as one before I realized fully what they were) and they don't speak for me. I don't remember ever going on about these things. Maybe a few years back…?

On the contrary, it happens every day. See above.

Yes, it happens through the government. Sounds like an argument for the separation of government and economics to me.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by ebuddy 

So no, we're not providing a "tired old comparison between people in the US and people abroad", but citing how much better a lifestyle is being lived in the US as "poor" than virtually anywhere else on the globe. This comes at a price and that price is an increasing income disparity between rich and poor which again has zero to do with quality of life among both.

It wasn't my intention to start a war between "poor in fattyland" and "poor in euroland".

Point is, most people (in any country) who whine about there being no opportunities only miss those opportunities because they're too busy sitting on their arses watching TV.

Originally Posted by Trent Reznor

Slave screams he thinks he knows what he wants
Slave screams thinks he has something to say
Slave screams he hears but doesn't want to listen
Slave screams he's being beat into submission

Slave screams he spends his life learning conformity
Slave screams he claims he has his own identity
Slave screams he's going to cause the system to fall
Slave screams but he's glad to be chained to that wall

[screener]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

only miss those opportunities because they're too busy sitting on their arses watching TV.

I expected better from you, alright, I lied.