[douthat]

Hi.

I was planning on buying my first mac at the beginning of April. I'm deffinately going to get a notebook, but I'm not sure which one yet. I was hoping to get some opinions from some die-hard mac users.

I'm a college student majoring in computer science, and our campus is 802.11b wired. I sold my old laptop to my dad a couple of months ago and now I realize how much I miss not being tied down.

I'm currently considering the 12.1" iBook or a low end PowerBook

Ok. So here are my thoughts:
I'm going to be using the computer on campus and in coffee shops mostly, so here's what I need from it:

• Be small enough to fit in my backpack and not weigh me down when riding a bike to school
• Be durable enough to withstand life in my backpack
• Have at least 3 hours of battery life
• Have a DVD-Rom drive (CD-RW isn't important)
• Work on the 802.11b at Starbucks, Campus, and Home

Here's what I'll do with 90% of my time, in no particular order:

• Web
• MS Word
• email
• IM's
• Programming
• Photoshop
• iTunes, iPhoto, iTools (I suspect I'll get a digital camcorder by the end of the year, so maybe even iMovie)

Here's what I like about the iBook:

• PRICE!
• smaller / lighter than PowerBook
• It has the best keyboard of any notebook its size on the market.

Here are some of my concerns about the iBook:

• Only 1 firewire port (I'm getting an ipod and possibly a firewire HD.. Are there firewire hubs?)
• Is the G3 fast enough???
• Is the ATI Rage 128 good enough for basic games? (I'm not really a gamer, but in case of boredom or a long flight, I'd like to be able to play some games)

Here's what I like about the PowerBook:

• SEXXXXY!
• Speeeed
• 1" Thin
• Screen size / resolution
• awesome 3d graphics card

Here are some of my concerns about the PowerBook:

• Price. I'd be confined to the two lower models
• larger / heavier
• Fragility. (I've heard that people who pick up the 'book by the corner may damage the optical drive. Will the book withstand my student lifestyle?)
• Only 1 firewire port (I'm getting an ipod and possibly a firewire HD.. Are there firewire hubs?)

If I go with a low end iBook, how much difference in speed is there between the models with the 66MHz bus and the 100MHz bus?

How do the speakers on the two notebooks differ?

Also, does anyone suspect (with credible edvidence) that Apple will upgrade either 'books in the next 1.5 months? The stats / prices on the 'books have stagnated, and I've noticed that my local CompUSA is trying their best to clear the 'books out. Do they know something I don't? I'm just afraid that I'm going to buy my phat new notebook and Apple is going to turn around and upgrade the specs / lower the prices, and my notebook won't be so "phat" anymore. But I don't want to have to wait a century to buy it, either. I promised myself I would wait 'till after MWTokyo to buy anything, and that has been excruciating enough.

Well there it is. All my info. If I can think of anything else, I'll post it up here. Please let me know your opinions on the two 'books.

Thanks in advance for your responses. I really appreciate it.

[Mac Guru]

Based on your descriptions of what you need I would say an iBook is more up your alley. I have both at home and I must say, personally the iBook is better built and better suited for life with a student.

It's light, rugged and is easily suited for all that you need to do with it, plus the 802.11 reception is better on the iBooks. 150 feet from my base station I still have 40-50% signal while the TiPowerbook has long since lost ALL signal strength.

you can get a Firewire hub easily here is one example at MacMall... a Belkin 4 port FireWire hub.

I don't see anything major happening to the iBook that would make you regret purchasing one in the near future.

Mac Guru

(Adding some answers to Q's I missed in the original post) :

The G3 in the iBook is plenty fast... I use a 500 iBook as my only computer, doing Pro Photoshop, Illustrator, and InDesign work on it basically all day. I never notice a huge speed slow down.

I too don't consider myself a gamer but hey, the kid in me wants to play sometimes... I have to say, despite the graphics card in the iBook it's not too shabby at 3D games. I've played Spider-Man, Giants: Citizen Kabuto, and several other 3D games recently and while not GeForce 3/4 quality they were still fun and playable.

As far as speakers, I'd say the iBooks are better. I've gotten WAY better sound out of my iBook than the Powerbook.

[ 03-27-2002: Message edited by: Mac Guru ]

[Voch]

While I'm not a FireWire guru at all (I used my boss' FireWire camera once to play with it) is it not true that most (if not all) FireWire hard drives have a pass-thru port to negate the need for a hub? Check into that, too, when/if you purchase a drive.

And to continue my iBook praise: I'm STILL havin' a blast running OS X on my iBook/500/DVD/384MB. No regrets (okay...I should have sprung for the 512MB RAM module when it was CHEAP...)

Voch

[ 03-27-2002: Message edited by: Voch ]

[Mac Guru]

Dude I totally didn't think about that... yes most quality drives will have 2 or more ports on the back allowing you to daisy chain perifs together.

That saves you $90 on a hub.

[Voch]

And as for games...it depends. I get along nicely with Quake III Arena thanks to an optimized config that a MacNN Forums user sent to me and I posted for all (works great but is a little grainy). I tried the new Wolfenstein and I guess I need more optimizations. It's wonderful for MacMAME (NeoGeo and older games...don't dare try S.T.U.N. Runner).

Wireless: mine works great (AirPort base station and my friend's third-party base station...I think it's a D-Link).

I'd personally get some kind of small wrap for the iBook for when its in your backpack. I personally use an old Wetsuit 2.0 (I used to carry a Duo 280c in it!) but a small slipcase is probably a good idea.

DVD movies *ROCK* under Mac OS X on my iBook. They were good in Mac OS 9.x, too, but I really like X's player now. Last summer I watched all of Gladiator on my apartment balcony but now the battery wouldn't hold out (nine month old battery and Mac OS X).

Haven't really run Photoshop since I only have the Classic version (I use GraphicConverter religiously). iMovie is subject to the "fast enough" debate (I've only minimally used it for a 20-second quick blurb film).

Also take into account that my machine is the older 500Mhz/66Mhz bus iBook. Yours will be 600Mhz/100Mhz and will only be better.

Voch

[ 03-27-2002: Message edited by: Voch ]

[Lateralus]

I was absolutely in shock when I saw how great my iBook runs games.

She plays Alice (The Game I thought would not even run) flawlessly. I spend hours in Unreal Tournament and Quake III as well. I play all of my games with a resolution of 800x600 in 16bit mode.

In some games, things start to get choppy when I set the quality to 32bit, so I stay in 16. I don't even see a difference between 16bit and 32bit, and I didn't see a difference between the two on my previous Athlon gaming PC either. I am very pleased with my iBook 500's performance, especially in OS X.

Whether you get an iBook or PowerBook, just be sure to load up on RAM.

[bleee]

I've had my iBook 600Mhz 384MB Ram 12.1 inch LCD for 2 weeks, coming from years of PC I found it to be a little sluggish (there is lag when you type sometimes) and I don't think I push it too hard either I'm using word, entourage, Mozilla, Terminal, and Burning CD's. I find that if you open more than 3 apps things get real slow. I turned off all the cool eye candy like the gene effect for minimizing, and the hopping icons on the dock when they want to notify you, because I found it slowed things down. I'm running OS X, my friend runs 9 which is really speedy. I'm thinking about pumping up the ram to 640MB hopefully things will get a little faster. Yes I'm using it for school too I take it everywhere.

You�re pretty much covered for programming you can download the development package to get cc compiler I have not clue why they didn't ship it with OS X. I also have perl, and Java working. If you need and IDE here is metroworks code warrior 7.0 I believe. The only complaint I have is that a lot of the apps like FTP, Irc clients are not as advanced as the PC�s less features and not as stable, also very buggy. But other than that I�m pretty happy.

[Qhris]

Here are some of my concerns about the iBook:
Only 1 firewire port (I'm getting an ipod and possibly a firewire HD.. Are there firewire hubs?)
Is the G3 fast enough???
Is the ATI Rage 128 good enough for basic games? (I'm not really a gamer, but in case of boredom or a long flight, I'd like to be able to play some games)

If those are your only concerns, rest easy. You can't go wrong with the iBook;
There are Firewire hubs but most FW HDs come with two ports. You can daisy-chain to Kalamazoo and back!
The G3 is 'fast enough' for all the apps you listed. If you get into some heavy-duty video editing, get a Powerbook and Final Cut Pro.
For basic games as you say, the Rage rocks.

You absolutley must have that asthetically 'phat' laptop - go for the Powerbook. But remember that what makes a laptop a 'great' is how well it does what you want it to do with the resources you have to spend on it. Get an iBook and all the RAM you can. You won't be disappointed.

Q

[ 03-30-2002: Message edited by: Qhris ]

[mike one]

i'd vote ibook.
i was in a similar situation last november, and i don't even think twice about my decision to get an ibook.
if you're going to use os X, buy at least an extra 256MB chip.

i'm a grad student and i use mine for web/email/powerpoint/word all in osx, in classic i run a chemical modeling program, 2 chem database search engines, photoshop 6, and a host of other apps. all perform reasonably well, and the stability of OSX is no joke.
i've yet to crash the OS itself.

either one you buy will make you happy!
if you're a hardcore gamer, i would suggest the Ti.
if you're a casual gamer the ibook 600 would be perfect for you.

[spb]

I've got an ibook and wish I'd got a PBG4 - 2 reasons

PC card slot & far superior keyboard..

apart from keyboard the ibook is nice.. fast enough - in 9 that is..

wish they still made the pismo..

[Chemmy]

Originally posted by douthat:
<STRONG>
Here's what I'll do with 90% of my time, in no particular order:

• Web
• MS Word
• email
• IM's
• Programming
• Photoshop
• iTunes, iPhoto, iTools (I suspect I'll get a digital camcorder by the end of the year, so maybe even iMovie)

</STRONG>

That's exactly what I do with my iBook. I used to be a PC user, and I switched over to Apple. My iBook does everything you've listed perfectly.

Airport works rediculously well.

I'd go for the 600mhz G3 iBook, as the 100mhz bus speed makes a fair amount of difference.

I'm no Mac Jesus, but isn't really the only difference between the G3 and the G4 the Altivec stuff? In other words, unless you're using something like FCP, which is optimized for the Altivec engine, G3=G4, right? I know my 600mhz iBook did most things faster than my friends 500mhz G4 Powerbook (boy was he jealous).

P.S: If you buy the iBook, don't use AOL's OS X AIM client. It's garbage. I just switched to Adium [ www.adiumx.com ], and it blew me away.

[velocitychannel]

I say the same thing where ever I am asked this question:

Chicks dig PowerBooks

Carry on.

[funkboy]

Get an iBook - buy mine! I like the iBooks so much I'd like to sell my iBook 500 DVD/384MB RAM/10GB/AirPort card (boy do I love AirPort!) to get a newer 600MHz/Combo/20GB, mostly because of the bigger hard drive.

I have a ton of mp3s and a lot of large image files that eat up disk space - but if you don't have a lot of big files, 10GB is plenty. Hard drive space is the only issue for me - speed and everything else is quite perky. An extra 100MHz boost wouldn't be bad for the proc-intensive stuff I do (lots of image editing and some 3D stuff) , but for the things you mention 500 should be fine - it's good enough for me! I love it!

[JeffZPgh]

Originally posted by funkboy:
<STRONG>Get an iBook - buy mine! I like the iBooks so much I'd like to sell my iBook 500 DVD/384MB RAM/10GB/AirPort card (boy do I love AirPort!) to get a newer 600MHz/Combo/20GB, mostly because of the bigger hard drive.

I have a ton of mp3s and a lot of large image files that eat up disk space - but if you don't have a lot of big files, 10GB is plenty. Hard drive space is the only issue for me - speed and everything else is quite perky. An extra 100MHz boost wouldn't be bad for the proc-intensive stuff I do (lots of image editing and some 3D stuff) , but for the things you mention 500 should be fine - it's good enough for me! I love it!</STRONG>

funkboy,

Depending on where you are with warranty on your current iBook and how capable you are with some precision screwdrivers - have you thought about simply upgrading the hard disk in your iBook? You'd probably save money over selling your current one and buying a new 600. I slapped a 30GB disk in my 500 and couldn't be happier - plan to keep this as my only machine for a few more years yet at least.

Jeff

[funkboy]

Originally posted by JeffZPgh:
<STRONG>

funkboy,

Depending on where you are with warranty on your current iBook and how capable you are with some precision screwdrivers - have you thought about simply upgrading the hard disk in your iBook?</STRONG>

I have, but the thought makes me woozy

The pictures I've seen have been of completely disassembled iBooks, and I'd really rather have an iBook with too small a hard drive than a nonoperational iBook! How tough was it to do the upgrade? I also wouldn't want to risk the drive overheating because it wasn't designed to take a particular drive...

Your 30GB upgrade does sound appealing tho!

[JeffZPgh]

Originally posted by funkboy:
<STRONG>


I have, but the thought makes me woozy

The pictures I've seen have been of completely disassembled iBooks, and I'd really rather have an iBook with too small a hard drive than a nonoperational iBook! How tough was it to do the upgrade? I also wouldn't want to risk the drive overheating because it wasn't designed to take a particular drive...

Your 30GB upgrade does sound appealing tho!</STRONG>

I was a little shaky during the upgrade, mostly because of the small size of the parts involved compared with my big clumsy hands. But I got through it without any issues.

There aren't any overheating issues to worry about - generally speaking, the newer/larger drives made by IBM and Toshiba run cooler and consume less power than the original 10GB drives in the iBook 500's! The liquid bearings used in the newer IBM Travelstars (which is what I installed) make a big difference.

Do whatever you're comfortable with...just thought I'd float the suggestion.

Jeff

[jokell82]

Well I've had the iBook for about 9 months now, and I absolutely love it. However, if I had to do it all over again, I would've gotten a PowerBook. If you use X, the difference is immense. I use X full time on my iBook, and although it isn't bad, I had no idea what I was missing until I saw my mom's PB 550 (I converted her) . It completely blew away my iBook 500. If you can afford it, go with the PowerBook.

[funkboy]

I'd definitely advise trying out the machine before you buy if possible, especially if you'll be in X full-time, or would like to be (I'd advise it! No crashing! NONE!) .

I wish an Apple Store, or, actually, ANY place that kept Macs on-hand, was near me. Unfortunately, I'd have to drive to Minneapolis to find a store that did that. My iBook is the only comp I've ever used X on, so I guess that's probably why it feels speedy. Maybe it's best to keep it that way, tho, to keep the speed feeling there

Oh, and hey, don't wait so long to buy. Just buy whatever you think will suit your needs best - if you need a new computer at all - and get it. The more you play with it the more worth and less stress you're putting yourself through. After arguing with myself about whether or not to get an iBook (wait for an upgrade, etc.) I bought one in July 2k1 - an upgrade came out in like Sept or Oct I think, but I had used my iBook for 2 months and had absolutely loved it (there's something really cool about using a laptop while an electrical storm dances outside, as you believe you've beat any danger of being fried by an electricity surge...) . If you need a computer, don't wait for the next best thing, buy what you need today.

I'd advise getting the iBook combo, since tho you don't think you need CD-RW (like I did) , it'll be super-useful to have it later on... or at least you'll probably lust for it!

[BrandoTheBlue]

Originally posted by Qhris:
<STRONG>
If those are your only concerns, rest easy. You can't go wrong with the iBook;
There are Firewire hubs but most FW HDs come with two ports. You can daisy-chain to Kalamazoo and back!

Q

[ 03-30-2002: Message edited by: Qhris ]</STRONG>

LOL! Punk! I'm from Kalamazoo! and it isn't THAT far! Anyway I say go for the iBook. I had a TiBook when they had just come out and while it was cool to look at and pretty fast, it was murder to lug around. It wasn't the weight but the size, it didn't fit in many of my bags without a tightfit and protecting it then was out of the question. Perhaps they got that heat issue taken care of but when I had that on my lap, OUCH! What else, oh when you did pick it up from a corner, it flexed which I guess could damage the optical drive. So I gave the TiBook to my dad and I now have an iBook600/384/Combo/30GB and I love it, I can toss it into any bag and I'm out. You do sacrifice a little speed on it that is for sure, it can get a little sluggish on OSX running more then one app. But it's perfect for taking on location doing spot shots with my Nikon and loading them right onto the harddrive to clear up the CF Cards... I also have no problems using it on the campus 802.11b network.

Good Luck!

Beej

[typoon]

i wold agree with the majority of the people here. get the iBook. I just bought a 600 and so far I love it. I'm not sure what people are talking about the keyboard, only thing I know about the keyboard is that the keys are a little more stiff than on my PIsmo. I was going to get the PBG4 but 2 issues changed my mind about it.
1. I got a no box special from an Apple dealer
2. The durability factor. Especially if you are a student I would get the ibook.

just my 2 cents

[OreoCookie]

That's a matter of taste and money.

I wish I had the money to buy a TiBook, mainly because of two features:

1. a G4
2. option of having two monitors (I have a nice 19" monitor sitting here ...)

But the iBook is a good buy anyway.
Go to a store and take a look at both of them. I did. And I found out that the small Powerbook is about as fast as the iBook for stuff like browsing, reading .pdfs, etc. etc.

[cutterjohn]

decided not to read all of the replies, but here's my take:

Hardware features of the powerbook make it a compelling choice, UNLESS you value portability over hardware features.

Simply put the powerbook has a higher bandwidth system/memory bus than the ibook and the latest models have a superior integrated graphics chip. Believe me these are noticeable differences as my Pismo G3/500 is noticeably more responsive(10-20%) than my ibook 2001 G3/500. Additionally the G4 is more likely to be supported long term than the G3, plus optimizations will most likely be G4 specific as the ibook is the ONLY G3 left from Apple.

Portability: the ibook 2001 is a nice, relatively light form factor with decent enough performance. The powerbooks are larger & heavier, but as noted above performance/support is likely to be "better."

In any event max everything that your budget will afford with whichever model you choose. e.g. memory, superdrive, etc. This should get you some additional useful life out of the machine.

[skalie]

Originally posted by OreoCookie:
<STRONG>
option of having two monitors
</STRONG>

Spanned or mirrored?

[nana2]

Spanning is avilable only on the g4 PBs.

[freeandunmuzzled]

apple's industrial design department designed the iBook to be throw into a backpack and cycled to school. they designed the powerbook to be placed on the back seat of a lexus and driven to a downtown cafe.

nuff said.

[skalie]

Originally posted by nana2:
<STRONG>Spanning is avilable only on the g4 PBs.</STRONG>

Spanning would be such a bonus for the iBook, especially the 12.1 inch screen jobbies that are so easy to carry around.

All the advantages of portability with the added bonus of double screens while at home or at the office.

I had a graphics tutorial running on my iBook today (Flash) while doing the examples on a PC, I would truly love to have the possibility to span screens.

But not at the expense of portability.

Maybe when I've bought a Lexus.

[freeandunmuzzled]

Originally posted by skalie:
<STRONG>Maybe when I've bought a Lexus.</STRONG>

save your money. lexus is just an expensive toyota. follow the sheep now... baaaaaaah! baaaahhh!