[turtle777]

Originally Posted by CharlesS 

And paid hundreds more due to the more expensive 3G data plan.

So ? He'll get more speed for more money.

You can buy a car, or still ride a horse. Sure it's your choice.

-t

[CharlesS]

Why stop there? He could pay even more and get an OC-3 line, hook a Wi-Fi router up to it, and connect to that, and it'd be even faster.

People don't have unlimited funds, especially in a recession. And really, both the iPhone and the Nexus One have Wi-Fi, so you're not really limited by the cell network for data speeds anyway.

[analogue SPRINKLES]

Originally Posted by CharlesS 

And paid hundreds more due to the more expensive 3G data plan.

Using your phone outside... priceless.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by CharlesS 

Why stop there? He could pay even more and get an OC-3 line, hook a Wi-Fi router up to it, and connect to that, and it'd be even faster

Don't be silly.

-t

[nonhuman]

Originally Posted by CharlesS 

Why stop there? He could pay even more and get an OC-3 line, hook a Wi-Fi router up to it, and connect to that, and it'd be even faster.

People don't have unlimited funds, especially in a recession. And really, both the iPhone and the Nexus One have Wi-Fi, so you're not really limited by the cell network for data speeds anyway.

Exactly.

My reasoning was that I really don't care about 3G connectivity that much because the combination of EDGE and WiFi supports my usage habits just fine. My complaints about the iPhone 2G were mostly due to it's other limitations. I also wanted the opportunity to use Android in a significant way as I'm curious about it, and think that it offers some advantages over the iPhone's OS X (which, of course, also has some advantages over Android).

Additionally, from a more political standpoint, I want to see the model that google is pushing the the sale of the Nexus One to succeed, so this gave me an opportunity to support that while at the same time reaping the benefits of an unlocked phone with much more modern hardware than what I had before.

I was able to upgrade my phone significantly without having to extend my AT&T contract and also without using my upgrade credit that I might eventually choose to use on a new iPhone (but not the 3GS which is already getting long in the tooth and will be replaced with an upgraded model in the near future).

I also use Google Voice extensively, which is difficult on the iPhone, and I wanted turn-by-turn navigation, which is significantly cheaper on the Nexus One and which my experiences thus far would suggest is at least as good as you would get from a modern, dedicated TomTom, Magellan, Garmin, &c. unit.

The only real drawbacks to the Nexus One / Android that I've discovered so far is that the UI is less polished and less consistent and certain apps that I like (such as the Zipcar app) are currently only available on the iPhone (the overall quality of the apps that I've used, with the exception of those with larger names behind them such as Pandora, has also generally been lower than the apps I've used on the iPhone). These are not, in my opinion, dealbreakers. Especially as I still have my iPhone 2G which, without a SIM card is essentially an iPod touch; all I need to do is set up WiFi tethering with my Nexus One and I'll have the full benefits of both (clearly not an ideal solution, but in general the things that I simply can't get on Android are not things that I use all that often).

[Eriamjh]

Originally Posted by starman 

Only 20,000 units estimated to have been sold the first week.

Estimated Nexus One Sales: Only 20,000 Units in the First Week

I lol at 20K in one week.

[starman]

Originally Posted by nonhuman 

I was able to upgrade my phone significantly without having to extend my AT&T contract and also without using my upgrade credit that I might eventually choose to use on a new iPhone (but not the 3GS which is already getting long in the tooth and will be replaced with an upgraded model in the near future).

LONG IN THE TOOTH? Are you serious? It's seven months old and leading the industry and it's long in the tooth?



In other news, Nexus Ones are deemed to be obsolete a week from Friday...

[nonhuman]

Originally Posted by starman 

LONG IN THE TOOTH? Are you serious? It's seven months old and leading the industry and it's long in the tooth?



In other news, Nexus Ones are deemed to be obsolete a week from Friday...

Yes. We know it will be replaced with a newer model within the next 6 months. Possibly sooner if the rumors are to be believed.

Do you deny that the Nexus One has more modern hardware than the iPhone 3GS?

[starman]

Originally Posted by nonhuman 

Yes. We know it will be replaced with a newer model within the next 6 months. Possibly sooner if the rumors are to be believed.

Do you deny that the Nexus One has more modern hardware than the iPhone 3GS?

Um, if you mean a faster processor, whoopie. It has a multitouch-capable screen that the software doesn't even use. You can't use all its RAM for apps, 3G doesn't work on all carriers, um, should I stop now?

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by nonhuman 

Do you deny that the Nexus One has more modern hardware than the iPhone 3GS?

It's so advanced, only robots use it.

Oh, wait, that was the Droid

-t

[nonhuman]

Originally Posted by starman 

Um, if you mean a faster processor, whoopie. It has a multitouch-capable screen that the software doesn't even use. You can't use all its RAM for apps, 3G doesn't work on all carriers, um, should I stop now?

You can't use all the RAM on any computer for apps... Unless all those apps are written in assembly and run on bare metal, I suppose...

I've already explained that I do not consider the limitations of the Nexus One, even restricted to AT&T's EDGE network to be a deal breaker. Get over it.

[starman]

The bottom line is this: what can it do that the iPhone can't?

Oh, it has a 5MP camera. That's nice.

Forget about the way it's sold, what can IT do?

It doesn't offer a SINGLE THING that the iPhone doesn't already have.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by nonhuman 

You can't use all the RAM on any computer for apps... Unless all those apps are written in assembly and run on bare metal, I suppose...

Huh ?

Explain how that pertains to OS X and the end-user.
So you're saying my iMac can't use the full 4GB RAM ?

-t

[starman]

Originally Posted by nonhuman 

You can't use all the RAM on any computer for apps... Unless all those apps are written in assembly and run on bare metal, I suppose...

I've already explained that I do not consider the limitations of the Nexus One, even restricted to AT&T's EDGE network to be a deal breaker. Get over it.

So if it's such a great phone, why does it have limitations? The only limitation the iPhone had was the whole MMS thing, but it did everything else damn well. I can't say the same for the N1.

[nonhuman]

Originally Posted by turtle777 

Huh ?

Explain how that pertains to OS X and the end-user.
So you're saying my iMac can't use the full 4GB RAM ?

-t

Not for apps which was the criticism leveled at the Nexus One.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by nonhuman 

Not for apps which was the criticism leveled at the Nexus One.

Still huh ?

Or was your original statement meant to be absurd ?

So, leave aside the technicality that OS X apps are stored on a HD, and not in RAM, there is still no limitation in how much or my HD the apps can use, and how much they can use of my RAM.

-t

[analogue SPRINKLES]

Originally Posted by starman 

The bottom line is this: what can it do that the iPhone can't?

Oh, it has a 5MP camera. That's nice.

Do did the Droid which was a big selling point. Problem was every single person who touched it said the camera was so slow and sooo soo bad there was no point.

Oh wait it also had that slidder keyboard even though it feels like crap and is slower than a soft keyboard.

[nonhuman]

Originally Posted by starman 

So if it's such a great phone, why does it have limitations? The only limitation the iPhone had was the whole MMS thing, but it did everything else damn well. I can't say the same for the N1.

Yes, the iPhone was totally omnipotent other than not sending MMS messages...

All technologies involve trade-offs. The iPhone has limitations, the Nexus One has limitations, the mythical tablet also has limitations. I weighed my options and decided that getting a Nexus One now was the best option for me. It's not an objective truth, it's my subjective opinion on the matter. As are your statements and everyone else's.

[nonhuman]

Originally Posted by turtle777 

Still huh ?

Or was your original statement meant to be absurd ?

So, leave aside the technicality that OS X apps are stored on a HD, and not in RAM, there is still no limitation in how much or my HD the apps can use, and how much they can use of my RAM.

-t

That is not a difference. Android apps are also not stored in RAM, they are stored on flash storage like iPhone apps, which is the equivalent of the HD in your Mac.

Regardless, all running processes on your computer require some ram. This includes the kernel and all sorts of other pieces of system software that are necessary in order to run your apps. Open up Activity Monitor and look at all those processes that are owned by root (and various other users that aren't you). Those are all using up some of your RAM that is then not available to your apps. Further, every one of your apps reserves more memory than it is actually uses restricting the amount of RAM available to the other apps, so quite a bit of your RAM is actually just sitting there idle and can't be used because of that as well.

[nonhuman]

Originally Posted by starman 

The bottom line is this: what can it do that the iPhone can't?

Oh, it has a 5MP camera. That's nice.

Forget about the way it's sold, what can IT do?

It doesn't offer a SINGLE THING that the iPhone doesn't already have.

Excellent turn-by-turn GPS directions for free. Seamless integration with Google Voice. It can be mounted on your desktop as a storage device. I can listen to Pandora while reading my email and browsing the web. The iPhone doesn't have any of those things.

I'm sure there are others too, but I'm not interested in dealing with your willful ignorance on this subject any further.

[turtle777]

I understand the mechanics, thank you, but I still don't get how that pertains to your statement "You can't use all the RAM on any computer". Or are you just saying that the system and OS will use some of the RAM, which is not available for user apps ?

-t

[nonhuman]

Originally Posted by turtle777 

I understand the mechanics, thank you, but I still don't get how that pertains to your statement "You can't use all the RAM on any computer". Or are you just saying that the system and OS will use some of the RAM, which is not available for user apps ?

-t

Yes... Unless you are using apps that are written in assembly and running on the bare metal there is always some level of abstraction between your apps and your hardware meaning that there is always some memory that is inaccessible to the user.

How is this significantly different from the situation with Android?

Further, how does it matter? Does this supposed limitation of the Nexus One actually prevent you from doing something that you might actually want to do otherwise? Thus far, I have encountered no such problem.

My suggestion is that whether or not there is some technical limitation here, it is not a practical one. It does not impact your usage of the device in any meaningful way. Therefore it is pointless to hold it up as some way in which the Nexus One is an inferior device. Show me a real world scenario in which this actually harms my experience in using the Nexus One, otherwise I honestly do not understand why you think this is important.

[starman]

Originally Posted by nonhuman 

Yes, the iPhone was totally omnipotent other than not sending MMS messages...

All technologies involve trade-offs. The iPhone has limitations, the Nexus One has limitations, the mythical tablet also has limitations. I weighed my options and decided that getting a Nexus One now was the best option for me. It's not an objective truth, it's my subjective opinion on the matter. As are your statements and everyone else's.

Dude, stop. The FACT it doesn't work on AT&T's 3G isn't a f'n opinion. For a phone that's supposed to allow you to jump from one carrier to another, for that not to work is a serious screwup.

[CharlesS]

nonhuman, could you try out OBEX Bluetooth transfer? I'm curious whether they've enabled that on Android yet.

[starman]

Originally Posted by nonhuman 

Yes... Unless you are using apps that are written in assembly and running on the bare metal there is always some level of abstraction between your apps and your hardware meaning that there is always some memory that is inaccessible to the user.

How is this significantly different from the situation with Android?

Further, how does it matter? Does this supposed limitation of the Nexus One actually prevent you from doing something that you might actually want to do otherwise? Thus far, I have encountered no such problem.

My suggestion is that whether or not there is some technical limitation here, it is not a practical one. It does not impact your usage of the device in any meaningful way. Therefore it is pointless to hold it up as some way in which the Nexus One is an inferior device. Show me a real world scenario in which this actually harms my experience in using the Nexus One, otherwise I honestly do not understand why you think this is important.

Oh, ffs.

You can't use all the RAM for your apps because the phone only allows you to put the apps in a certain space.

[CharlesS]

Originally Posted by starman 

Dude, stop. The FACT it doesn't work on AT&T's 3G isn't a f'n opinion. For a phone that's supposed to allow you to jump from one carrier to another, for that not to work is a serious screwup.

Nor is the FACT that the iPhone doesn't work on T-Mobile's (or Verizon's, or Sprint's). What's your point?

[starman]

Originally Posted by nonhuman 

Excellent turn-by-turn GPS directions for free. Seamless integration with Google Voice. It can be mounted on your desktop as a storage device. I can listen to Pandora while reading my email and browsing the web. The iPhone doesn't have any of those things.

I'm sure there are others too, but I'm not interested in dealing with your willful ignorance on this subject any further.

Um, yes it does. I use my iPhone for storage. I can listen to my iPod while browsing the web and checking my email.

And Google Voice is useless to me.

[starman]

Originally Posted by CharlesS 

Nor is the FACT that the iPhone doesn't work on T-Mobile's (or Verizon's, or Sprint's). What's your point?

BUT THAT'S NOT A LIMITATION OF THE HARDWARE. Big difference, dude. BIG difference.

[CharlesS]

Originally Posted by starman 

BUT THAT'S NOT A LIMITATION OF THE HARDWARE. Big difference, dude. BIG difference.

Um, what?

The iPhone has an UMTS radio that transmits in the 1900 band and not the 1700 band.
The Nexus One has an UMTS radio that transmits in the 1700 band and not the 1900 band.

Where's the big philosophical difference?

[starman]

Originally Posted by CharlesS 

Um, what?

The iPhone has an UMTS radio that transmits in the 1900 band and not the 1700 band.
The Nexus One has an UMTS radio that transmits in the 1700 band and not the 1900 band.

Where's the big philosophical difference?

You're missing the point. If the SELLING POINT of the N1 is to have the ability to move between carriers, and the hardware DOES NOT WORK with carriers in the very same country it's sold in, then in my opinion it seems rather stupid.

[CharlesS]

Originally Posted by starman 

You're missing the point. If the SELLING POINT of the N1 is to have the ability to move between carriers

Is that the selling point?

[starman]

Originally Posted by CharlesS 

Is that the selling point?

Um, does that not cover four of the points in your very own list?

1. Saving a substantial amount of money

2. Being able to change your plan at will

4. Being able to get any phone you want, from anywhere, without having to rely on what the carrier decides to offer

11. Greater freedom and flexibility in general

[CharlesS]

It has nothing to do with 1, 2, or 11, and number 4 is a feature of T-Mobile's contract-free plan rather than any particular phone.

Besides, those aren't selling points. Those are just my reasons why I was happy with this new development. If it were a selling point of the phone, I'd expect it to be on the web site for that phone at the very least.

(note: there are quad-band UMTS radios coming out. Just as there are few GSM phones that aren't quad band, these days, most UMTS phones will most likely be universal as well not too long from now, so that day is coming - especially when all four US carriers switch to LTE. At the very least, I would be quite surprised if both the Nexus Two and the iPhone 3GSXZ Extreme don't have both ATT and TMO's frequency bands.)

[starman]

It has everything to do with 2. If I want to change my plan "at will", and I want 3G, I'm stuck if I want AT&T. That's pretty serious.

And 4. has to do with every carrier, or you should write more clearly.

And you really think that is has nothing to do with 11? Ok, whatever you say, boss.

[CharlesS]

2. Does T-Mobile, or ATT/VZW/etc for that matter, only offer one plan? (I already explained this)

(also: is there any reason you have to keep using the same phone if you do switch carriers?)

4. Not if you're already paying for a subsidized phone because the cost for it is included in your plan. If that's the case, you'd better go with a phone the carrier offers, unless you're rich enough to have no problem with paying for the phone twice.

(I suppose you could get a free phone and then eBay it, but it's still not going to be as good a deal, and besides, it's a pain in the ass.)

11. You have greater flexibility and freedom if you're not on a freakin' two-year contract, almost by definition, whether you're using a 3G phone, a 2G phone, or a freakin' AMPS phone. I really shouldn't have to explain why this is.

[analogue SPRINKLES]

CharlesS I don't see the point of you trying to convince us. None of us are sold or will change our minds no matter all these monthly savings you mention (Does $20/m really make a big difference to someone who has a job and smartphone anyway?).

You seems to be in love with the product and idea though so why not join the other guy who bought one and enjoy the good life and leave us with our inferior, locked down and expensive iPhones as we seem happy with it.

To each his own.

[CharlesS]

Dude... pot, kettle, black.

(hint: who called the iPhone "inferior, locked down, and expensive"? who said much about the iPhone at all?)

(hint 2: what's the topic of this thread? what would be the appropriate thing to discuss in it?)

(hint 3: who simply posted that they liked the idea of the way the product in the thread title was sold and explained why, and who went on a freakin' witch hunt because of it?)

(hint 4: who came to this thread not to discuss the N1 at all, but rather to try to convince everyone else of how much better the iPhone is?)

I agree, to each his own. So why can't we have a civil discussion about the Nexus One in a thread entitled "Nexus One"? Go "enjoy the good life", as you say, with your iPhone, and stop trolling in this thread.

Nonhuman, if you haven't been scared away yet, I'm still curious about OBEX support. Does the Android 2.1 software on the N1 have it, or have they still not added that yet?

[analogue SPRINKLES]

Originally Posted by CharlesS 

I agree, to each his own. So why can't we have a civil discussion about the N1 in this thread? Go "enjoy the good life", as you say, with your iPhone, and stop trolling in this thread.

I thought we were all having a rather pleasant discussion over why the Nexus is a dud in most peoples eyes but all your responses feel rather defensive so you get rather huffy over any negatives mentioned.

I don't see people getting anywhere near as defensive over the iPhone in here when you dis it.

So perhaps we should drop the whole carrier discussion and just talk about the phone software and hardware as that seems to be the main interest in a new product.

Then again all the hardware/soft negatives have been mentioned without any direct responses to them that doesn't involve carriers so what else can you really offer on the subject.

Actually, do you have a Nexus yet? If so how you like it?

[CharlesS]

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES 

I thought we were all having a rather pleasant discussion over why the Nexus is a dud in most peoples eyes but all your responses feel rather defensive so you get rather huffy over any negatives mentioned.

The guy in that creationism video besson3c posted in the PWL felt the same way.

I don't see people getting anywhere near as defensive over the iPhone in here when you dis it.

That's because I try not to make things personal. This discussion has become far too personal, which is the problem.

So perhaps we should drop the whole carrier discussion and just talk about the phone software and hardware as that seems to be the main interest in a new product.

The phone itself is relatively uninteresting; the way they're selling it, however, is significant (and will benefit iPhone users like you, too, in the long run).

Actually, do you have a Nexus yet? If so how you like it?

If I did, why would I be trying to ask nonhuman questions about its capabilities (which keep getting drowned out in the tedious flame-war crap)?

[analogue SPRINKLES]

Originally Posted by CharlesS 

The phone itself is relatively uninteresting; the way they're selling it, however, is significant (and will benefit iPhone users like you, too, in the long run).

Oh god isn't that the point since page 1. Thanks for the journey though.

And I am still not sold they are doing anything different than ton of other unlocked phones out there that have been doing the same for years.

Either way the focus seems to be more about the hardware and since these arguments are mostly for US providers they don't apply to all users and markets here.

[CharlesS]

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES 

And I am still not sold they are doing anything different than ton of other unlocked phones out there that have been doing the same for years.

What is different is that now there is a plan that allows you to practically be able to get unlocked phones, instead of it being prohibitively expensive to do so, and as a result you actually end up paying less for the unlocked phone than you would have for the locked one.

What is different is that now you can actually sign up for a contract-free plan, and you don't have to worry about correctly guesstimating how many minutes you're going to use per month, because you can always change the plan whenever you need without either being blocked or having to extend the contract.

What is different is that now you can get a cell phone plan without worrying about getting screwed if your needs change for whatever reason.

What is different is that now you can get a cell phone just like any other piece of electronics. You didn't buy a land phone from your long distance carrier (not since the breakup of the AT&T monopoly, anyway), you don't buy a laptop computer from your cable/DSL provider, so why should you have to buy a cell phone from your wireless provider? It doesn't make sense.

What is different is all the other stuff I talked about way back on page 2. Since you don't live here, you probably don't understand just how much cell phone service has sucked in the US, and what a huge improvement this is. And this is a huge improvement, and Google probably had a hand in convincing T-Mobile to do it, so kudos to them.

[starman]

Originally Posted by CharlesS 

What is different is that now there is a plan that allows you to practically be able to get unlocked phones, instead of it being prohibitively expensive to do so, and as a result you actually end up paying less for the unlocked phone than you would have for the locked one.

What is different is that now you can actually sign up for a contract-free plan, and you don't have to worry about correctly guesstimating how many minutes you're going to use per month, because you can always change the plan whenever you need without either being blocked or having to extend the contract.

What is different is that now you can get a cell phone plan without worrying about getting screwed if your needs change for whatever reason.

What is different is that now you can get a cell phone just like any other piece of electronics. You didn't buy a land phone from your long distance carrier (not since the breakup of the AT&T monopoly, anyway), you don't buy a laptop computer from your cable/DSL provider, so why should you have to buy a cell phone from your wireless provider? It doesn't make sense.

What is different is all the other stuff I talked about way back on page 2. Since you don't live here, you probably don't understand just how much cell phone service has sucked in the US, and what a huge improvement this is. And this is a huge improvement, and Google probably had a hand in convincing T-Mobile to do it, so kudos to them.

What is NOT different is exactly what AS has just said - I can walk into a Best Buy and buy an unlocked phone. I did that when I bought my Nokia N95 TWO YEARS AGO.

[jokell82]

Originally Posted by starman 

What is NOT different is exactly what AS has just said - I can walk into a Best Buy and buy an unlocked phone. I did that when I bought my Nokia N95 TWO YEARS AGO.

Is it really so hard to comprehend that the lower cost, contract-free plan along with the unlocked phone is the great idea here?

Because yeah, you bought an unlocked phone from Best Buy. And then you used it on whatever carrier you had with the exact same monthly pricing as someone who had a subsidized phone. Even though the carrier didn't need to recoup a subsidy from you.

[nonhuman]

Originally Posted by starman 

Dude, stop. The FACT it doesn't work on AT&T's 3G isn't a f'n opinion. For a phone that's supposed to allow you to jump from one carrier to another, for that not to work is a serious screwup.

Clearly I disagree since I'm using a Nexus One on AT&T as I type this...

[The Final Dakar]

Has someone won this thread yet?

[nonhuman]

Originally Posted by CharlesS 

nonhuman, could you try out OBEX Bluetooth transfer? I'm curious whether they've enabled that on Android yet.

Attempting it now...


I was, in fact, able to transfer a file to the Nexus One over Bluetooth. I do not have the ability to 'Browse Device' over Bluetooth though, nor have I (yet, at least) found a way to initiate a transfer from the Nexus One to my Mac.

...

I just installed the Bluetooth File Transfer app on the phone, and once I turned on Bluetooth Sharing in my Sharing pref pane I was able to transfer files from the Nexus to my Mac over Bluetooth as well.

[nonhuman]

Originally Posted by starman 

Um, yes it does. I use my iPhone for storage. I can listen to my iPod while browsing the web and checking my email.

And Google Voice is useless to me.

No, you can't mount your iPhone on your Desktop as a storage device. You can do this with a Nexus One.

And you know damned well what I mean when I say that Android has greater multi-tasking abilities. Yes, the iPhone does also provide some limited version of that functionality, but Android gives you a pretty much unlimited ability to run as many apps at once as you can and constantly switch back and forth between them without having to rely on the few services 'blessed' by Apple to do this. Of course there's a downside to this, but if managed properly it can be a great benefit.

[starman]

Originally Posted by nonhuman 

no, you can't mount your iphone on your desktop as a storage device. You can do this with a nexus one.

And you know damned well what i mean when i say that android has greater multi-tasking abilities. Yes, the iphone does also provide some limited version of that functionality, but android gives you a pretty much unlimited ability to run as many apps at once as you can and constantly switch back and forth between them without having to rely on the few services 'blessed' by apple to do this. Of course there's a downside to this, but if managed properly it can be a great benefit.

yes i can and stop telling me i can't.

[starman]

Originally Posted by nonhuman 

Clearly I disagree since I'm using a Nexus One on AT&T as I type this...

Are you on 3G?

[nonhuman]

Originally Posted by starman 

yes i can and stop telling me i can't.

How?