[The Godfather]

Will you freeze your rear, by standing on the sidewalk at 3AM?
Will you stomp over your fellow shopper for a $60 DVR in Walmart?
Will you pull a lady's hair for a hugely discounted item in the Apple Store at 5AM?

[Artful Dodger]

Originally Posted by The Godfather

1) Will you freeze your rear, by standing on the sidewalk at 3AM?
2) Will you stomp over your fellow shopper for a $60 DVR in Walmart?
3) Will you pull a lady's hair for a hugely discounted item in the Apple Store at 5AM?

1) No, unless I am drunk with a shawarma in hand
2) No
3) Yes

[nredman]

no - but i have worked early on those days in the past few years - its funny as hell to see people lined up all the way down the parking lot for a shitty $50 tv

[V]

Someone know if the Apple.com store sale will be for the US store only?

I'm in Canada...and want an iMac.

[gururafiki]

No, no, and no. I used to work in customer service, and there is no need for me to have a reminder of what it was like. Plus, I do not want to contribute to America's most embarrassing day of the year.

[wdlove]

1) No
2) No
3) Will at least check out savings on apple.com

[Kevin]

Heck, I don't like going to stores when they aren't busy.

[Doofy]

What are you on about? Is this some kind of after-Thanksgiving sale or something?

[Kevin]

Yeah.. day after Thanksgiving, which will be Friday, stores have big sales early in the morning.

It officially begins Christmas shopping season.

I hide.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by Kevin

Yeah.. day after Thanksgiving, which will be Friday, stores have big sales early in the morning.

It officially begins Christmas shopping season.

Cheers for the explanation.

[Kenneth]

Originally Posted by The Godfather

Will you pull a lady's hair for a hugely discounted item in the Apple Store at 5AM?

So the Apple retail store will open at 5AM this Friday? apple.com doesn't say anything about it. Since I have to work on Friday, can anyone tell me the store hour? Thanks.

[TailsToo]

Originally Posted by gururafiki

No, no, and no. I used to work in customer service, and there is no need for me to have a reminder of what it was like. Plus, I do not want to contribute to America's most embarrassing day of the year.

Sure.. Buy Nothing Day. Consumers are too brain washed for it to ever work. Wal-Mart will report at least a 10% increase in year over year sales over the weekend.

[gururafiki]

Originally Posted by TailsToo

Sure.. Buy Nothing Day. Consumers are too brain washed for it to ever work.

Sadly sir, you are correct.

[The Godfather]

Originally Posted by Kenneth

So the Apple retail store will open at 5AM this Friday? apple.com doesn't say anything about it. Since I have to work on Friday, can anyone tell me the store hour? Thanks.

http://macnn.com/rd.php?id=36725
They don't say the hour, but it is not unreasonable they will have regular Black Friday hours.

[Maflynn]

Not a chance,

Unfortunitly where I live I cannot leave town without incurring the massive traffic jams that will be around because of the shoppers. A good excuse to work around the house I supose

[Gankdawg]

I'm with wdlove although I just bought the G5 bracket for $39.

http://www.g5drivebracket.com/special.php

[BasketofPuppies]

Originally Posted by Maflynn

Not a chance,

Unfortunitly where I live I cannot leave town without incurring the massive traffic jams that will be around because of the shoppers.

Where I live, that happens every moment of every day.

I haven't seen any sales that will be beneficial to me or anyone I'm buying gifts for, so I'm probably sleeping in this year.

[cmeisenzahl]

I doubt it.

[The Godfather]

I am failing to attract positive replies.

Who loves to shop? Cody Dawg?

[Kevin]

Dump On The Economy Day, And Ruin America

[BasketofPuppies]

It's from Adbusters. What were you expecting?

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by BasketofPuppies

It's from Adbusters. What were you expecting?

Ah this is true.

Rebels without a clue.

What cracks me up is, they have stuff you can BUY on their site.

[The Godfather]

If some store was offering a 52-inch plasma for $700, would you go?

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by The Godfather

If some store was offering a 52-inch plasma for $700, would you go?

No, I would keep my 20" decade old CRT TV, and keep that $700 to later add to it and buy a new Mac.

[ghporter]

I may go to the bank to deposit a check tomorrow, but that's as close to a store as I'm going to get. I hate the idiotic "I have to get all my shopping done the day after Thanksgiving" psychosis that goes with Black Friday.

There's even a name for it: Bitforshanes' Disorder. It's the psychotic need to flow with the masses, purchase greatly overpriced merchandise "on sale" so it's only a lot overpriced, drive like a maniac, and generally hype oneself into a frenzy with all the other shoppers from the day after Thanksgiving until midnight on Christmas Eve. My wife says that for correctness' sake it should be called "Britforshanes'," but I feel that would negatively impact the name; it has nothing to do with the British. Decoding this is left as an exercise for the student.

[zerostar]

I need to go to usps tomorrow to mail some ebay stuff out, after that I may stop at Target to see if there is any sales on stuff for a 1 year old. So I guess I am the first "yes" go me.

I am not worried though, last year I don't remember anyone being that FRANTIC, just long long lines, I wait in 3 hr lines at disney for a :30 ride all the time, so to me its no big deal, I kind of like people and the hurried attitudes.

Mind you, I live in a still smallish town so Its never that bad no matter what.

[KeriVit]

Ya know- we were looking at the flyers today, there are some really good deals out there. But really- 5 am, standing in line, limited quantity... why do they do this? Are the same deals ever available after Black Friday?

[iXavier]

Arguably, can't you usually get better stuff online with rebates and such from places like http://www.techbargains.com ? Seems to me like the stuff you get at Black Friday sales (named, if anyone's curious, because this is the first day that retailers go into the black, or profit, for the year, originally) is pretty bad quality.

x.

[volcano]

Originally Posted by iXavier

Seems to me like the stuff you get at Black Friday [...] is pretty bad quality.

Just look at the ads. They'll create mass hysteria with advertisments for a "79.99 8" Portable DVD Player" - but you'll never know the manufacturer and/or brand of this product. Heck, you know it's bad when a store like Kohl's starts selling these type of things.

I worked in retail during my high school days, (specifically, Mervyn's), and Black Friday was always a joke. Most retail stores (Sears, JC Penney, Mervyn's, etc) will offer you a "free gift" to the first [x] number of people who enter the store - and from my experience, for the most part, you'd have a massive line of people waiting to come inside - only to grab the free gift and run. I can't tell you how many times I wanted to smack those people. I'm not kidding, either - we would hand out the free gift, and they would do a nice "circle maneuver" around us and walk right out the door, sputtering something like "Oh, we'll be back later.. but we have to get the free gift at Sears and Foley's first..." Just a tad bit annoying.

Regardless, I won't be going out tomorrow morning. I like to take my time when shopping for gifts, and days like tomorrow just scream "impulsive buying". It's a day where you buy items you'll never use and don't need, but you buy it for the sheer fact that it is on sale with the "lowest price of the year", "lowest price of the season", "doorbuster price", etc.

[MaxPower2k3]

I'll be working tomorrow and saturday (yes, retail job)-- and i'm not looking forward to it.

[nonhuman]

I'll just do what I do every day and not care what's going on.

Originally Posted by Kevin

Ah this is true.

Rebels without a clue.

What cracks me up is, they have stuff you can BUY on their site.

That isn't made in a sweatshop! Wow, that is funny!

[DeathMan]

I'm going to play racquetball in the morning. No shopping though. I don't think its worth it.

[BasketofPuppies]

Originally Posted by screamingFit

That isn't made in a sweatshop! Wow, that is funny!

Should we block out the Adbusters logos on those products?

[Link]

Adbusters, doorbusters. What a rhyme!

Thanks for the laugh, volcano! My mom has a friend that.. well.. you mention the words "free gift" to her and she'll be all over it. Kinda funny, in a way.

About the only things we'll be shopping for tomorrow (If necessary) are car parts -- our mechanic is coming to fix the car (something the other mechanic screwed up on).. woohoo! Mobile again! I'm not really going anywhere if I can help it though, too many whacky drivers on the road tomorrow.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by screamingFit

That isn't made in a sweatshop! Wow, that is funny!

No, they are anti-consumerism. Not just anti-sweatshop.

They are telling you not to buy ANYTHING that day. They did not single out sweat shop only made brands.

[nonhuman]

Originally Posted by Kevin

No, they are anti-consumerism. Not just anti-sweatshop.

They are telling you not to buy ANYTHING that day. They did not single out sweat shop only made brands.

What's wrong with being anti-consumerism?

[E's Lil Theorem]

I was going to, but I woke up too late. I'm sure I'm not missing much.

Originally Posted by nonhuman

What's wrong with being anti-consumerism?

If you don't subscribe to consumerism (aka capitalism) you are a commie freak. You've been around these boards long enough to know that!

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by nonhuman

What's wrong with being anti-consumerism?

I never said either way in my post. I think you missed my point.

They are anti-consumer, yet sell consumer items on their site. "buy these shoes from us, because we make them cooler than the other guys"

It's actually very ironic.

Originally Posted by screamingFit

If you don't subscribe to consumerism (aka capitalism) you are a commie freak. You've been around these boards long enough to know that!

Wow what a knee-jerk reaction. Nevermind I didn't say anything for or against it.

[nonhuman]

Originally Posted by screamingFit

If you don't subscribe to consumerism (aka capitalism) you are a commie freak. You've been around these boards long enough to know that!

Yeah yeah...

Of course consumerism and capitalism aren't the same thing at all. And the US isn't capitalist any more than it's democratic. We're a mercantilist republic. But whatever...

[nonhuman]

Originally Posted by Kevin

I think you are missing my point. They are anti-cosumerism yet, they sell consumer items on their page. "Don't buy anything!11 (Cept those nice consumer items on our page for you to buy)

And consumerism is just anyone buying stuff they need or want.

I see no contradiction in being anti-consumerism and selling consumer items. They exist and operate within a comsumerist system, they need to be able to keep themselves afloat somehow.

But consumerism is not just buying what you need or what. Consumerism only involves what you want, and more often than not, what you've been manipulated into thinking you want. It wasn't until after WWII and the creation of public relations (literally just another word for propaganda) and marketing that understood and used psychology to generate demand rather than simply relying on extant demand that consumerism even existed. Edward Bernays was largely responsible for this. He was hired by the US government to help with their propaganda efforts during WWII and afterwards relized that the same practices could be adapted for use on the civilian population during peacetime. He used Freudian psychology (he was a nephew of Freud) to understand and drive the desires of the populace and even used his own brand of marketing/pr to change social conventions (he was pretty much single-handedly responsible for the fall of the taboo on women smoking as part of a pr campaign he did for the American Tabaco Company).

Originally Posted by Edward Bernays

When I came back to the United States, I decided that if you could use propaganda for war, you could certainly use it for peace. And propaganda got to be a bad word because of the Germans.. using it. So what I did was to try to find some other words, so we found the words Council on Public Relations

Originally Posted by Kevin

I never said either way in my post. I think you missed my point.

They are anti-consumer, yet sell consumer items on their site. "buy these shoes from us, because we make them cooler than the other guys"

It's actually very ironic.


Wow what a knee-jerk reaction. Nevermind I didn't say anything for or against it.

Uhmmm...who said I was referring to you in particular?

And yes, I'll grant you that it can seem ironic.

Originally Posted by nonhuman

Yeah yeah...

Of course consumerism and capitalism aren't the same thing at all. And the US isn't capitalist any more than it's democratic. We're a mercantilist republic. But whatever...

Can you have one without the other?

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by nonhuman

I see no contradiction in being anti-consumerism and selling consumer items. They exist and operate within a comsumerist system, they need to be able to keep themselves afloat somehow.

Regardless, it's still ironic.

But consumerism is not just buying what you need or what. Consumerism only involves what you want, and more often than not, what you've been manipulated into thinking you want.

Actually that would be advertising. There is a reason you have to take Psych courses when persuing such a degree. To fool people into believing they need something they do not. The dumb and naive will be fooled, those that can see past it will not. What we need is more SELF CONTROL, and less blaming our buying habits on those selling or marketing such products. The site should be PROMOTING self control, and be LESS against companies trying to make money that fuels the economy.

It wasn't until after WWII and the creation of public relations (literally just another word for propaganda) and marketing that understood and used psychology to generate demand rather than simply relying on extant demand that consumerism even existed.

And most people on this planet knows this exists. And fall for it anyhow because they have no self control. And when their self control fails, they look for someone to blame, instead of taking responsibilities for thier own actions. Wal-Mart didn't make them buy that 32" LCD screen. The choose to. Some people have poor judgement and self control. This is the problem. This is what needs to be fixed. You fix this, and such advertising would be useless. Such advertising only works because people are lazy/looking to fill a void/easily manipulated because of it.

Edward Bernays was largely responsible for this. He was hired by the US government to help with their propaganda efforts during WWII and afterwards relized that the same practices could be adapted for use on the civilian population during peacetime. He used Freudian psychology (he was a nephew of Freud) to understand and drive the desires of the populace and even used his own brand of marketing/pr to change social conventions (he was pretty much single-handedly responsible for the fall of the taboo on women smoking as part of a pr campaign he did for the American Tabaco Company).

I have no doubt in this. As I have taken many courses on advertising and such. But they aren't controlling your minds. I watch these commercials and the blatant tricks they try to use is obvious to me.

Instead of being ANTI-CONSUMERISM. Or ANTI-CAPITOLISM one should try to educate people on the whims of propanganda.

BTW the MAIN definition of consumerism is

con·sum·er·ism    ( P )  Pronunciation Key  (kn-sm-rzm)
n.

The movement seeking to protect and inform consumers by requiring such practices as honest packaging and advertising, product guarantees, and improved safety standards.

[nonhuman]

Originally Posted by screamingFit

Can you have one without the other?

Which?

Consumerism and capitalism? Yes, definitely.

Capitalism and democracy? Possibly, I'm not sure yet.

Mercantilism and republicanism? Definitely.

[nonhuman]

Originally Posted by Kevin

Regardless, it's still ironic.

Definitely. I love irony.

Actually that would be advertising. There is a reason you have to take Psych courses when persuing such a degree. To fool people into believing they need something they do not. The dumb and naive will be fooled, those that can see past it will not. What we need is more SELF CONTROL, and less blaming our buying habits on those selling or marketing such products. The site should be PROMOTING self control, and be LESS against companies trying to make money that fuels the economy.

Advertising and marketing are very different things. Advertising has existed for as long as there has been any system of exchange (read: all of human history). Advertising is nothing more than saying: 'this rock will keep tigers away'. Marketing is much more insidious, and marketing is what requires the knowledge of psychology. Marketing is taking your product and creating an image for it. Then convincing people that not only do they want to have this certain image but that buying your product or subscribing to your service they will come closer to having that image. Marketing is what drives people to buy things they don't need. Marketing is what makes people think a $3000 coffee table is better than a cardboard box. Both will serve exactly the same function, but the $3000 coffee table projects a better image about its owner.

And most people on this planet knows this exists. And fall for it anyhow because they have no self control. And when their self control fails, they look for someone to blame, instead of taking responsibilities for thier own actions. Wal-Mart didn't make them buy that 32" LCD screen. The choose to. Some people have poor judgement and self control. This is the problem. This is what needs to be fixed. You fix this, and such advertising would be useless. Such advertising only works because people are lazy/looking to fill a void/easily manipulated because of it.

I'd actually deny that most people are aware of this. Whether it's because they don't care enough to see it or because they don't understand it, the power of marketing is that it works below the conscious level.

I wasn't even fully aware of this stuff until after I started working in the PR industry and decided to do some research into the field (I have no PR or advertising background).

I have no doubt in this. As I have taken many courses on advertising and such. But they aren't controlling your minds. I watch these commercials and the blatant tricks they try to use is obvious to me.

Yes they're obvious to you and me, but as you said you've taken courses on this and as I said I've done research into it. Yes I agree that people are ultimately responsible for their own choices and that we can't blame marketing for the fact that we spend too much money, but for many if not most people marketing is not somethign they're aware of. They don't know or understand the goal of it or the way it works.

Instead of being ANTI-CONSUMERISM. Or ANTI-CAPITOLISM one should try to educate people on the whims of propanganda.

Assuming that their ideals aren't actually anti-capitolist or anti-consumerist then yes. I agree that people should be educated on how this stuff works so that they don't fall prey to it as easily. But it could be that this group is genuinely against consumerism and/or capitolism. Many people (including, to some extent, myself) are.

BTW the MAIN definition of consumerism is

con·sum·er·ism    ( P )  Pronunciation Key  (kn-sm-rzm)
n.

The movement seeking to protect and inform consumers by requiring such practices as honest packaging and advertising, product guarantees, and improved safety standards.

Sure, but that's obviously not the definition being used by these people, and to try and throw in another definition just muddies the waters. They're using consumerism to mean the ideals of attempting to guide the market to benefit your business rather than positioning your business to benefit the market (or something along those lines, I'm no economist). That's the definition we have to work with if we're going to honestly debate the matter.

[osiris]

The only way I'd get out of bed to go shopping at 5AM would be if Apple had Quad G5s for $500. So maybe it's all relative to what you're looking for.
For me black friday for sleeping off a food hangover.

[ReggieX]

Don't have it in Canada, so no. We have Boxing Day sales which are nearly as bad, but I've been to one once, my Dad got me a DVD player for my Christmas present and I bought 2 DVDs for it.