[Heady]

Hi everyone,

I'm thinking of traveling to Europe this summer (from Canada) and I'm trying to figure out where I should go. I'm currently a Graphic Design student. That implies two things: 1) I'm poor, and 2) I have a strong interest in design/arts in general.

I'm considering two plans: in Plan A, I pick a city and stay there for two months, trying to visit as much stuff as possible, and trying to find a graphic design-related job to pay the rent and immerse myself into the country's visual culture.

Plan B consists of a more traditional student's trip: visit a few countries, stay in youth hostels, leave when out of money.

Plan A looks more interesting to me because of the work experience it would bring me. But I see a potential problem in the choice of the city/country: most cities I know that have a vibrant design culture are also mighty expensive (London and Zurich come to mind). All suggestions will be greatly appreciated.

So basically, I'm looking for advice of any kind from travelers, Europeans, and graphic designers. Thanks!

-Heady

[Logic]

If you want to save your money and still be able to travel, see some great design(though a couple of 100 years) go to the Czech Republic. From there you can take short visits to Germany, Austria and so forth.

Just what I can think of at the moment

[Tristrami]

Come to Baku. It is beautiful here with amazing arts of all kinds. A truly unique culture and the Azeris are wonderfully friendly people. Cheap too (although flights here are expensive...)!

[Heady]

I should add that I only speak English and French; I'd love to pick up a bit of the local language wherever I go, but I'm afraid I'll have to stick to countries where most people speak a bit of either language.

How are Baku and the Czech Republic in that respect?

-Heady

[Osama's Carcase]

Take some pepper spray for the gypsies. They can be very bad in Western European cities at some places.

[Logic]

Originally posted by Heady:
I should add that I only speak English and French; I'd love to pick up a bit of the local language wherever I go, but I'm afraid I'll have to stick to countries where most people speak a bit of either language.

How are Baku and the Czech Republic in that respect?

-Heady

In the Czech republic you should be able to manage in english. Though they might be better in german.

[engage1000]

You should always travel with a partner, whether it be same sex or not. That contributes to the fun factor, and you don't feel like you're in it all by yourself. Plus, you can go a lot farther with two people on twice as much money than you can by yourself with half the amount of money.

Just a suggestion.

[SimeyTheLimey]

Personally, I'd do the traditional backpacking thing. There is almost no better way to meet a huge cross-section of people. Buy a Eurail pass before you leave, they come in unlimited travel versions if you are under 26 and you can almost literally travel anywhere by train. Stay in Youth Hostels and/or camp sites, both of which are quite civilized. If you do that and buy food in grocery stores rather than restaurants, you can live very cheaply.

Don't worry about the language barrier. If you speak French and English, you will get by almost anywhere. Buy phrase books for the other languages - say German and Italian. If all else fails, a smile is all the communication you need.

[Nicko]

I'll second the eurorail pass, those are excellent. If you plan it right, you can travel by train at night and then sight see during the day. Shop in markets to make sandwiches is also alot cheaper than eating out all the time as well. If you stay in hostils you will meet all kinds of people that will hang out with you

Depending on how many places you want to visit will probably determine how many days you spend in each place. Frankly, I think a week MAX is enough for most places - that is enough time to see all the major attractions before it gets boring. But again, it all depends what you want to see and do in each place, so its something to think about.

Above all buy yourself a good up-to-date european guidebook. It will have the latest rates and reviews for which hostels are good and which to avoid. It's also good for planning which sites to check out in each city before you get there...because there is no damn way you will get to see everything!

Figure out what your budget is before hand and plan how much you can spend each day. Do this and you won't have anything to worry about. Europe can be very expensive if you are not careful

The most important thing!!!
Make sure you sew a Canadian flag on to your backpack!!! It's like a homing beacon for other Canadians! Its funny, other canadians will walk up to you and start chatting away for no other reason than because you are both from the same country, its great! Good for picking up chicks too

[Tristrami]

To answer your question, the main language spoken here is Azerbaijani (or Azeri)--a kind of Turkish. However, everyone speaks Russian, so it is easy to get around. There are some English speakers, especially in Baku but probably not as many as in Czech republic.

[MPC]

Um, Prague. The best city in Europe as far as I'm concerned. Wonderful nightlife, rich in history, dirt cheap.

I wouldn't look for a job there. If you need a cheap wonderful place to kill time Prague is awesome. I went to most of the major cities in Europe and did I mention Prague. Go to Prague.

[Simon X]

Originally posted by Heady:
(London and Zurich come to mind).

-Heady

Forget about trying to find work in London. To many people and now the design companies in London are tightening their belts.

Zurich? Never been there, but the parts of Switzerland I have been to are very beautiful, along the Swiss/Italian border.

[Montanan]

If this is your first trip to Europe, I'd definitely vote for the backpacking option, as well ... and save the "work" option for your second trip, after you've gotten a basic introduction to the continent and have found some places you particularly like.

If you do think about heading over there to work, though, here are a couple of things to keep in mind:

1. Potential employers may face significant legal issues in hiring you (as an alien), unless you go through a *lot* of paperwork hoops. The legalities will vary depending on whether you're in the EU or not ... it might be easier to get work in some countries of central and eastern Europe.

2. Language issues which would be trivial as a backpacker could become much more troublesome when you're trying to enter the job market -- particularly in the non-EU countries, where English and French are still less common.

Now, if you do the backpacking thing, here are a few random points:

* The main point: traveling over there is EASY, and amazingly rewarding. Don't worry about the language thing, at all ... it's very easy to get by. You'll see wonderful things, and meet incredible people.

* Figure out at least a rough itinerary of countries/cities you'd like to visit, but don't lock yourself in. Once you get there, you'll find places you want to linger, other places which may be disappointing, and maybe people you want to hang out with for a while. Get hostel reservations before you go for the first couple of nights, and then you can make further reservations on the internet as you go.

* Think about getting an "open jaw" ticket for your trip -- this is where you fly into one city, and out of another. This will save you from having to backtrack as much ... as an extreme example, you could fly into London, and return from Istanbul!

* The railpasses are a good deal if you're under 26, but not for every single itinerary. They're great if you're limiting yourself to western Europe, but many of the passes don't work at all once you head behind the former Iron Curtain. If you want to visit those parts of Europe, it's better just to buy tickets as you go.

* As for *where* to go, here are personal recommendations, although YMMV, of course. For a first trip, you'll want to hit a few of the major cities of Western Europe ... Paris, Brussels, Amsterdam ... but my favorite places are further east. DEFINITELY go to Prague ... it's amazing. Italian tourist destinations are clich�s, but certainly worthwhile -- especially Venice. In general, central and eastern Europe is cheaper, less touristy, and more interesting (for me, anyhow). I loved Bulgaria, for example, although traveling through there is relatively hard work. If you're feeling a little adventuresome, you'd really love Istanbul, as well as St. Petersburg. (In contrast, I found Germany and France to be much less interesting.)

Definitely go for it, though, and have a great time!

[fulmer]

yeah, St. Petersburg is nice (as is Moscow), but you will need a visa to enter the Russian Federation. Russia does not participate in the visa waiver program that allows Americans to so easily enter and visit much of Europe (and other nations).

Getting there by rail is possible, but I do not believe the Ukrainian authorities will take kindly to your transit--a transit visa may be required by the Ukraine. I'd just catch a plane, which is usually pretty cheap from Europe.

I'd stick with Europe--the visa waiver countries--for now and then, if interested, visit Russia at a later date.

[Mastrap]

Listen to Montanan.

Forget about working. No working visa, no jobs. At least not in the design industry, you might get lucky in a pub working long hours for shitty money. Don't do it, it'll be soul destroying. However, if you're under 26 do you Canadians get the same deal that Ossies and New Zealanders, i.e a 2 year visa? If you've got one of these, things might look different.

If it's your first time in Europe an InterRail ticket is a great idea. Not only will it take you to most countries, you can also use the train as moving hotels. Many backpackers just take the night train, find an empty compartment and sleep through the journey.

Things I would recommend you'd see:

Stockholm, small and beautiful.

Copenhagen

Berlin

Amsterdam

Move over to Edinburgh, then down to London

Paris, the south of France

Spain, Madrid, Barcelona is a must

Italy, Venice, Rome

Finish in Prague

[PB2K]

Some spiritual advice :

Especially in eastern countries, check marihuana before you pay for it. The quality is crap there anyway, but they also try to sell tea or dirt to foreigners.

Rule of thumb, don't buy dope on the streets. And wear your money onto your body.

Also, try to get your hands on a few bottles of Absint. It's a sort of alcoholic drink though it is classified as illegal in most countries outside the Czech republic.

[Mulattabianca]

Chech and Slovakia are nice, - but not just Prague. Also Budapest in Hungary ... Krakow, Poland .. they are nice. And for you, cheap.

Italy.. someone said Rome and Venice. If you want something more Italian and cheaper, see Naples. And the souther you are, the cheaper. Palermo is nice, all Sicily is nice - but the public transport isn't very good. And, better for you in South if you understand some language (and habits) and don't look that much like a turist. Portugal is generally cheaper than Italy - and nice as well, if you'll see Spain, see something in Portugal as well. ..

I could do a long list of suggestions - but decide what you'll like to see. North, South, .. anything? Of the North, Russia and the Eastern countries (Azerb., Latvia, Estonia etc, Polonia, etc = East from EU) are cheaper than EU, and all of them have somehing cultural as well ...

[spacefreak]

Originally posted by PB2K:
Some spiritual advice :

Especially in eastern countries, check marihuana before you pay for it. The quality is crap there anyway, but they also try to sell tea or dirt to foreigners.

Rule of thumb, don't buy dope on the streets. And wear your money onto your body.

Also, try to get your hands on a few bottles of Absint. It's a sort of alcoholic drink though it is classified as illegal in most countries outside the Czech republic.

I recommend NOT breaking the law outside of Canadian jurisdiction. Instead of perpetually searching for drugs and outlawed substances, you may choose to spend much of your learning about culture, history, etc.

You can smoke pot in your Canadian basement any day. I' d hate to see you go all the way there and end up being detained.

[zigzag]

I second the vote for traveling. Getting to know one place would be great, but I wouldn't count on finding work as a non-resident alien.

I think Prague is worth a visit but personally I find London, Paris, Rome, or any number of other cities to be more interesting than Prague.

St. Petersburg is interesting but I wouldn't put it at the top of the list unless you have a special interest. Russia requires a visa, etc., and St. Pete was built as a copy of older European cities, so it's not that distinctive architecturally. And cheap, convenient lodging can be difficult to find. The palaces are incredible but so are the ones in France, and personally I think one palace per trip is enough unless you have a special interest. The Hermitage, of course, is important if you're an art fiend. If you find yourself in a nearby country, look into taking a 1 or 2-day cruise to St. Pete, and they might be able to arrange a visa for you.

Switzerland is scenic, but a bit too orderly for my tastes. Life in France and Italy is as rich as it gets, IMO.

Re: design - I would send you to the London Transport Museum to read up on Edward Johnston, who designed the typeface and graphics. London also has a Design Museum that I thought was well worth a visit.

[Montanan]

Right, Mastrap ... how could I have forgotten Copenhagen and Stockholm? Two of the loveliest and most civilized cities in the world. (And even more so, if you happen to like herring ... <g>.)

If you make it to Stockholm, you should take the overnight boat from there to Helsinki, which is also a very pleasant place, and would be of interest to someone who's into design. And from Helsinki, you could do a quick trip to the neat old city of Tallinn. It's also an easy train ride to St. Petersburg from there ... although fulmer's point about the visa problem is well taken.

And as for the, uh, spiritual, component ... you'll find attitudes towards pot to be pretty relaxed in most of western Europe, although somewhat less so in the east and south. Definitely schedule an evening in one of the famous Amsterdam "coffee shops," with a recovery day afterwards.

The absinthe is a cultural experience that I suppose is worth trying when you get to Czech, although its *really* nasty stuff. (Your head *will* explode, trust me.) Head for a great little medieval town south of Prague called Cesk� Krumlov, which is something of a backpackers' hangout. There, you can ingest absinthe and great Czech beer until the wee hours, and then lie in bed and moan all the following day.

[Nicko]

Originally posted by zigzag:

Re: design - I would send you to the London Transport Museum to read up on Edward Johnston, who designed the typeface and graphics. London also has a Design Museum that I thought was well worth a visit.

Agreed, London has awesome museums.

[GRAFF]

Originally posted by Mastrap:

Forget about working. No working visa, no jobs. At least not in the design industry, you might get lucky in a pub working long hours for shitty money. Don't do it, it'll be soul destroying.

This is not true. If you do your research before leaving, you can find work in your field and obtain the work papers you need. Check out this organisation: http://www.aipt.org

If you can make the contacts, they can make the paper work happen. It worked for me. Also, Paris is a vibrant, creative city. It is also right in the center of Europe, making your visits to other countries a snap.

Good luck!

[Hawkeye_a]

Amsterdam, my all-time favorite city. I was there in Thursday just for a couple of hours though, was just passing through.

[Simon X]

Originally posted by zigzag:
Re: design - I would send you to the London Transport Museum to read up on Edward Johnston, who designed the typeface and graphics. London also has a Design Museum that I thought was well worth a visit.

Ahh yes, Edward Johnston and the London Transport Museum, two of my faves. Which you might remember zigzag.


Heady-
If you can make late summer then I highly reccomend this London Open House
Best annual event in London.

[Heady]

Thanks to everyone for the most useful tips, comments and recommendations. I'll definitely use a lot of that information as I plan my trip.

I'm now leaning toward the 'backpack' option; many of you brought many good arguments in favor of that approach. I'm not entirely discarding the 'work' option, but I figure I'll have plenty to learn, see, and visit without having a job on top of that ;-)

I'm still debating over whether or not I should travel alone. Any lone travelers willing to share their experience? This is my first trip and I guess things would be easier traveling with somebody else, but being alone seems interesting as it brings another degree of freedom -- literally do whatever you want, whenever you want.

Any suggestions?

-Heady

[Montanan]

Originally posted by Heady:
I'm still debating over whether or not I should travel alone. Any lone travelers willing to share their experience? This is my first trip and I guess things would be easier traveling with somebody else, but being alone seems interesting as it brings another degree of freedom -- literally do whatever you want, whenever you want.

I've done nearly all of my overseas trips solo ... partly by choice, and partly because I wasn't sure that my potential travel companions could be entrusted with such a difficult assignment. I think extended travel with someone is one of the most stressful tests of a friendship ever.

Pros and cons:

* Like you said, going solo gives you total freedom and control ... over where to go, when to get up in the morning, what to eat, and on and on. That's a big deal to me, since the concepts of travel and freedom seem so entwined.

* People who travel with someone will mostly talk to their travel companion, while people on their own will have much more incentive to meet the locals and fellow travelers ... and that's a very good thing. You'll have a far richer travel experience.

* There's a real sense of accomplishment in heading off to another continent all on your own. Good for the self-confidence.

* A disadvantage to solo travel: you'll be on your own if there's an emergency ... you get hurt, or robbed, or whatever. (Note that this is EXTREMELY UNLIKELY.) I've always been able to take care of myself, but there *have* been a couple of times when a little moral support would have been nice (like with that pickpocket in Budapest, for example ).

* I think the biggest problem with traveling alone, though, is that you have no one to share your memories with when you get back ... and they'll be great memories.

Anyhow, you obviously have to answer that question for yourself ... based on what kind of person you are, and your potential companions. I guess I'd say to go for it on your own, unless you've got someone who really, really wants to go with you, and who you're really, really compatible with.

[Montanan]

A quick P.S. to my last post: You will meet a *lot* of other people traveling solo, so there will be plenty of opportunities for ad hoc friendships with other travelers. The people I've met like that are definitely the best memories from my trips.

[Mastrap]

Originally posted by GRAFF:
This is not true. If you do your research before leaving, you can find work in your field and obtain the work papers you need. Check out this organisation: http://www.aipt.org

If you can make the contacts, they can make the paper work happen. It worked for me. Also, Paris is a vibrant, creative city. It is also right in the center of Europe, making your visits to other countries a snap.

Good luck!

Oh. Interesting. I didn't know about that. I also was assuming that he wanted to 'just work', i.e. not just work experience. Work experience is almost always either not at all or very badly paid. Especially in the graphics industry where there are dozens of applicants for every opening going.

Still, very cool.

[Mastrap]

Originally posted by Heady:

I'm still debating over whether or not I should travel alone. Any lone travelers willing to share their experience?

I did my first solo trip to Switzerland when I had just turned 16. My plan was to hike round Lake Constance. My mum was terrified, my dad thought it would be character building and allowed me to go. It helped that they were on holiday themselves 1/2 a days drive away and could always get me out of trouble should there be a need.

On my third day I arrived in the Swiss town of "Stein am Rhein". It was pissing down with rain and I had no idea where the youth hostel was. Suddenly a girl on a scooter stopped and asked me if I needed help. I asked for directions to the youth hostel, she offered me a lift to her parents house to check out a map. Anyway, I never left. She was 18 and her parents were on holiday, so she had the house for herself. Every evening for two weeks I called my parents informing them that I had safely arrived at my next (official) destination. We still very occasionally write to each other. She's been married for ages and is a teacher now. Fun memories and not something that would have happened when travelling with somebody else.

[SimeyTheLimey]

Originally posted by Heady:
I'm still debating over whether or not I should travel alone. Any lone travelers willing to share their experience? This is my first trip and I guess things would be easier traveling with somebody else, but being alone seems interesting as it brings another degree of freedom -- literally do whatever you want, whenever you want.

Any suggestions?

-Heady

I don't think that travelling with somebody else is any easier. In fact, the opposite is probably the case. You end up spending much of your time negotiating your itinerary. If you pick the right person, that's fine, and it will give you a person to share your experiences with which is nice. But I once picked the wrong person (unadventurous, unwilling to learn any of the language) and had two weeks of unpleasant arguments. In the end it became me dragging him, and it almost ended a friendship.

I'd say the odds of that kind of unpleasant experience go up the more you lean towards true backpacking. Not everyone is cut out to rought it and make their travel experience really spontaneous. For some reason, I have never had that problem travelling by car with a companion. I think people who aren't used to travelling feel safer with the "base" a vehicle gives you.

On the other hand, I'd second the comment that you will stil meet lots of interesting people if you travel alone. I did quite a lot of my travel in Europe that way. I always had fun meeting people. It's always a matter of attitude. It's just that what you miss is the ability to share that experience with somebody. How much that should matter to you depends on your personality.

[snotnose]

if you go to france, make sure you take plenty of tissues for them...