[besson3c]

Can we all agree on this point now?

Sure, he is not perfect, flawless, etc. Sure we can count on people like stupendousman bringing to our attention his occasional gaffe, and sure it is very difficult for people who disagree strongly with his political positions to acknowledge this, I guess I can understand that. But, to everybody else who is able to separate their feelings about the content from the delivery and overall presentation, is it not pretty safe to say that whether or not you agree with him he is the best political speaker this generation has seen? Perhaps he is the Steve Jobs of public speaking?

I say this not only because of his ability to captivate and inspire both here and around the globe, but also his thoughtfulness, level of preparation, and attention to detail in articulating his positions. Contrast this to somebody like Biden or Palin and it seems like they are constantly on the verge of saying something they will either regret later or get attacked for saying somehow.

I suck at public speaking, but I admire people that do it well. Obama is one of the best.

Cue the "but Hitler was good at public speaking too"

[turtle777]

Are you trying to imitate Abe ?

I remember a time where he would post new threads every day, but they where all about the same crap.

Really, you need to get a f*cking blog.

-t

[ort888]

More like his teleprompter is a brilliant speaker... put him in any other setting and he stumbles and bumbles about like a halfwit methhead. Right? Am I right? Right?

[SpaceMonkey]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

Can we all agree on this point now?

Sure, he is not perfect, flawless, etc. Sure we can count on people like stupendousman bringing to our attention his occasional gaffe, and sure it is very difficult for people who disagree strongly with his political positions to acknowledge this, I guess I can understand that. But, to everybody else who is able to separate their feelings about the content from the delivery and overall presentation, is it not pretty safe to say that whether or not you agree with him he is the best political speaker this generation has seen? Perhaps he is the Steve Jobs of public speaking?

I say this not only because of his ability to captivate and inspire both here and around the globe, but also his thoughtfulness, level of preparation, and attention to detail in articulating his positions. Contrast this to somebody like Biden or Palin and it seems like they are constantly on the verge of saying something they will either regret later or get attacked for saying somehow.

I suck at public speaking, but I admire people that do it well. Obama is one of the best.

Yeah, but Hit...

Cue the "but Hitler was good at public speaking too"

Aww, crap.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by turtle777 

Are you trying to imitate Abe ?

I remember a time where he would post new threads every day, but they where all about the same crap.

Really, you need to get a f*cking blog.

-t

Yes Turtle, I post threads daily about Obama being a good public speaker. *pats turtle on the head* it's okay, everything is going to be just fine!

[Aeolius]

Originally Posted by ort888 

... put him in any other setting and he stumbles and bumbles about like a halfwit methhead.

In such instances, I call him Uhh-bama

[Doofy]

Mussolini was good at public speaking too.

[Chuckit]

So was somebody else whom I won't name because it means I lose the thread.

[besson3c]

Stalin?

[Doofy]

Blair!

[SpaceMonkey]

Ghandi.

[chabig]

Obama's Home Teleprompter Malfunctions During Family Dinner | The Onion - America's Finest News Source

[stupendousman]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

Can we all agree on this point now?

Sure, he is not perfect, flawless, etc. Sure we can count on people like stupendousman bringing to our attention his occasional gaffe, and sure it is very difficult for people who disagree strongly with his political positions to acknowledge this, I guess I can understand that.

I don't think that's true. I think it's probably fairly easy for people who don't agree with him to admit that he is very, very good at delivering prepared speeches. I know I can.

But the caveat is "prepared speeches". That's still an admirable skill. One that George W. Bush never mastered and probably never will.

[smacintush]

I understand that I am in the minority here, but I don't like his speeches, his tone and cadence are grating to my ears. Then there is the way he raises his chin to look out over the audience…I mean look at the teleprompter. It just adds to his snooty demeanor.

Besides all that, so what? Why are people so excited about a skill that really means far less than the most of the others that a President should possess.

I guess that's what happens after 8 years of Bush. People misoveremphasize the value of a good speaker.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by smacintush 

I understand that I am in the minority here, but I don't like his speeches, his tone and cadence are grating to my ears. Then there is the way he raises his chin to look out over the audience…I mean look at the teleprompter. It just adds to his snooty demeanor.

Besides all that, so what? Why are people so excited about a skill that really means far less than the most of the others that a President should possess.

I guess that's what happens after 8 years of Bush. People misoveremphasize the value of a good speaker.

I strongly disagree.

Good speaking skills help us diplomatically, help us improve the American brand (yes, America is a "product" in many ways). Good speaking skills help establish a clear vision and lay out a path to those who feel inclined to go down that path. Good speaking skills engage people, make them want to listen and stay informed, and they also help create a sense of pride among Americans when the speaker, in this case Obama, travels abroad.

[besson3c]

I would also argue that public speaking is one of the chief responsibilities of a president. A president does not single-handedly craft legislation, nor does he/she make decisions without a lot of counsel and advice. A president is a figure head, a symbol. Not purely one, but this is a big part of the gig, I think.

Can one be a good leader without good public speaking skills?

[Macrobat]

Doesn't hold a candle to Reagan.

[besson3c]

Which is why I wrote "of this generation"

[smacintush]

Good speaking skills are indeed important. I just don't think that being a great public speaker in-and-of-itself is at the top of the list of important skills.

Even today when people seem to want rocks stars more than true leaders, at the end of the day substance is still king. Obama's fantastic speaking skills isn't getting the Afghanistan situation solved, it isn't helping the economy turn around, it isn't making government panels make medically responsible decisions on breast cancer testing, or keeping the dollar from continuing to plummet, or inflation to rise, or insuring that the stimulus money is being spent and reported on ethically. How are good speaking skill helping with spending? Or with the responsible handling of Gitmo detainee trials?

In fact, one thing that being a talented speaker most definitely SHOULD have an effect on is something that even the BRILLIANT OBAMA cannot accomplish: keeping public opinion of himself from falling.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by smacintush 

Good speaking skills are indeed important. I just don't think that being a great public speaker in-and-of-itself is at the top of the list of important skills.

Even today when people seem to want rocks stars more than true leaders, at the end of the day substance is still king. Obama's fantastic speaking skills isn't getting the Afghanistan situation solved, it isn't helping the economy turn around, it isn't making government panels make medically responsible decisions on breast cancer testing, or keeping the dollar from continuing to plummet, or inflation to rise, or insuring that the stimulus money is being spent and reported on ethically. How are good speaking skill helping with spending? Or with the responsible handling of Gitmo detainee trials?

In fact, one thing that being a talented speaker most definitely SHOULD have an effect on is something that even the BRILLIANT OBAMA cannot accomplish: keeping public opinion of himself from falling.

I never claimed that all one needed was good speaking skills. If you really want to make this thread more than it is and to assess Obama's presidency overall, there are dozens of other threads to choose from.

I'm never one to mind going off topic obviously, but PWL threads need special attention to keep from being shat upon

[smacintush]

Ok.

[stupendousman]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

I strongly disagree.

Good speaking skills help us diplomatically, help us improve the American brand (yes, America is a "product" in many ways). Good speaking skills help establish a clear vision and lay out a path to those who feel inclined to go down that path. Good speaking skills engage people, make them want to listen and stay informed, and they also help create a sense of pride among Americans when the speaker, in this case Obama, travels abroad.

I agree with this as well. I believe that one of the President's most important roles is to effectively communicate to others the priorities that he believes are vital to the United State's interests. The more persuasive a communicator he is, the more likely he will get his agenda put into place.

Again, Bush was a terrible communicator and his Presidency suffered because of it. Bush was all that unlike Reagan in a lot of ways as far as governance goes, but Reagan is a much better President because he could communicate to people exactly what he was doing and why, and they in turn supported him.

In the end though, if just about all you have is a finely honed ability to give a speech, it won't matter that much. The speech making ability only goes so far if the stuff you are speechifying on is really unpopular and you end up lacking credibility.

[ebuddy]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

Can we all agree on this point now?

No, we can't. He's a brilliant reader. There's a difference. As it stands now, Obama has dropped to 48% approval ratings and with every word, continues to drop.

He's one of the most long-winded people I've ever listened to. It takes him 45 minutes to deliver a 15 minute message and when he's taken off the planned message, look out. I used to think he was a brilliant speaker, now I simply see a guy who's in way over his head. You'll no doubt want other opinions.

[Big Mac]

I don't understand how so many of you can take besson with such humor, where I seem to be unable to do so.

[OldManMac]

Originally Posted by Macrobat 

Doesn't hold a candle to Reagan.

No one could hold a candle to Reagan, when it came to being one of the greatest snake oil salesmen of the 20th century.

[BadKosh]

Perhaps I've just seen too many political types. The way Obama makes his "S"s is irritating to me as well as his cadence when he speaks. I sometimes think he pauses as he gets to the end of a line so he can focus on the next line in is teleprompter speech. Who writes that crap anyway?

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by Big Mac 

I don't understand how so many of you can take besson with such humor, where I seem to be unable to do so.

I'm with you.

He starting to get on my nerves, just as Abe did the few months leading to his bannination.

-t

[Doofy]

I don't think Barry has quite the right amount of emotion in his speeches. He should do it like this:

YouTube - Hitler speech

[Macrobat]

Yeah, he's such a wonderful reader, yet Palin (you know the "idiot" who doesn't NEED a teleprompter) can outdraw him in any venue that doesn't include bussed in paid attendees, hmmmm.

[sek929]

I hear Satan strings a mean sentence together.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by turtle777 

I'm with you.

He starting to get on my nerves, just as Abe did the few months leading to his bannination.

-t

Everything and everybody seems to get on your nerves, so this just means that I'm something and somebody.


It's rather sad that your dislike of Obama runs so deep that a thread pointing out one of his strengths gets on your nerves.

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by Macrobat 

Yeah, he's such a wonderful reader, yet Palin (you know the "idiot" who doesn't NEED a teleprompter) can outdraw him in any venue that doesn't include bussed in paid attendees, hmmmm.

Palin doesn't need a teleprompter because nobody expects her to say anything intelligent in the first place. Seriously, what was the last thing Palin said that made you think, "Wow, that was really intellectually stimulating"?

[smacintush]

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

Seriously, what was the last thing Palin said that made you think, "Wow, that was really intellectually stimulating"?

For someone who is so idiotic and pathetic, she sure gets brought up a lot.

[The Final Dakar]

Originally Posted by smacintush 

For someone who is so idiotic and pathetic, she sure gets brought up a lot.

Perhaps because she pushes herself into the limelight quite often?

[SpaceMonkey]

I did think it was a little sad that The Daily Show devoted practically its entire episode last night to her book. Sad, albeit hilarious.

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by smacintush 

For someone who is so idiotic and pathetic, she sure gets brought up a lot.

Yes, she's a lot like Paris Hilton in that way.

[smacintush]

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

Yes, she's a lot like Paris Hilton in that way.

Tabloid reporting of Paris Hilton isn't the same as the kind of attention that Palin gets.

[besson3c]

I did think Stewart said it well when summarizing what it is about Palin that bugs him (the fact that when you peel back the onion, there is no onion there).

The entire interview with Lou Dobbs was also excellent.

[smacintush]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

I did think Stewart said it well when summarizing what it is about Palin that bugs him (the fact that when you peel back the onion, there is no onion there).

I tend not to take comedians opinions too seriously. To each his own I guess.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by smacintush 

I tend not to take comedians opinions too seriously. To each his own I guess.

Me neither, I take them on their merits alone. In Stewart's case, he is often consistently right about stuff. Mahr not so much, but Stewart and I must be cut from the same cloth.

[besson3c]

One thing that Stewart said to Dobbs that kind of freaked me out is "our country is not this fragile". I *swear* that I never heard him say that before, and you know that I say this all the time here on MacNN (and seem to be the only one). He either stole this line from me, or else there is some sort of secret Muslim experiment to puts bits of his brain in my head and vice versa.

[smacintush]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

Me neither, I take them on their merits alone. In Stewart's case, he is often consistently right about stuff. Mahr not so much, but Stewart and I must be cut from the same cloth.

By "right" you mean he says things you agree with?

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by smacintush 

By "right" you mean he says things you agree with?

Right to me, yes, but technically this is the same thing

[besson3c]

smacintush: you can officially talk about whatever now, this thread has gone off its wheels thanks to me!

You're welcome

[Macrobat]

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

Palin doesn't need a teleprompter because nobody expects her to say anything intelligent in the first place. Seriously, what was the last thing Palin said that made you think, "Wow, that was really intellectually stimulating"?

Spoken by someone who has obviously never actually listened to her and draws his opinions from the media (you know, the people with the obvious agenda to trivialize her, yet it's obvious they actually fear her).

Gee, what a moron:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FTuJiAuhTTk

Here's a hint: Tina Fey is NOT Sarah Palin. There is a HUGE difference between "folksy" speaking styles and "stupid."

Funny, when Bill Clinton spoke "folksy" he wasn't an automatic idiot, he just behaved like one.

"She's an idiot" but she doesn't have to READ all her pre-canned speeches. Hmmm.

At least she manages to keep her foot out of her own mouth more than the precedent does, you know, "The Won."

[smacintush]

She's a very, very good public speaker therefore her intelligence or competence is far less relevent. As long as she can competently communicate the opinions and policies of those around her she would be an effective President.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by Macrobat 

Spoken by someone who has obviously never actually listened to her and draw his opinions form the media.

Gee, what a moron:

YouTube - Sarah Palin on the economy and bailouts

Here's a hint: Tina Fey is NOT Sarah Palin. There is a HUGE difference between "folksy" speaking styles and "stupid."

At least she manages to keep her foot out of her own mouth more than the precedent does, you know, "The Won."

What was in that video that you found particularly intelligent?

Just wondering... Just seemed like typical Palin, nothing unusual here.

[Macrobat]

She sound particularly stupid to you there?

Just the point - she's NOT stupid, just has been successfully painted as so.

Didn't go to China, for instance and tell the world that KSM was basically already convicted before his trial - now did she?

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/vid...g_verdict.html

But he says it so eloquently!

I will say this, he speaks better with his foot in his mouth than almost anyone I have ever heard.

[hyteckit]

Originally Posted by Macrobat 

She sound particularly stupid to you there?

Just the point - she's NOT stupid, just has been successfully painted as so.

Didn't go to China, for instance and tell the world that KSM was basically already convicted before his trial - now did she?

RealClearPolitics - Video - Obama Expresses Confidence KSM Will Be Convicted; Says He Isn't "Prejudging" Verdict

But he says it so eloquently!

I will say this, he speaks better with his foot in his mouth than almost anyone I have ever heard.

Obama: I don't think it will be offensive at all when he's convicted and when the death penalty is applied to him.

Obama: Look — what I said was people will not be offended IF that's the outcome. I'm not pre-judging, I'm not going to be in that courtroom, that's the job of prosecutors, the judge and the jury.


Obama never said KSM will be convicted.

He say "when" and "if" KSM is convicted, not 'will' be convicted.

[Macrobat]

Point is - even the LIBERAL media agrees his phraseology was awkward enough to be misconstrued that way - yet he is a "brilliant public speaker."

Please get it - just this once, I beg you.