[macroy]

had a interesting conversation over the weekend with a few friends.

We were discussing the continued rise of real estate prices all over the US (and especially in the DC area). A buddy made a comment that he would not be able to buy his house now as its gone up so much.

And we all pondered a sec.... "Damn.. neither can I.." We all realized.
Damn scary.

So - thought I just pop the question - if you were looking for a house today, would you be able to afford the one you currently own?

[Mastrap]

I currently don't own a house. International moves do that to you. But I sold both my homes back in London, UK, for far more than I could have afforded as a buyer. I financed an extended sabbatical and the start-up costs of my company that way.

[Macola]

This is a good thing...I'd be pretty upset if my house hadn't appreciated over 10 years. Unfortunately, many homeowners negate the effect by borrowing against the equity.

[Eriamjh]

It's because income does not rise as fast as the value of one's house. If it wasn't for that, we wouldn't really have much equity when we move into a bigger/newer house.

It's not really a problem. In fact, it's like buying stocks that really go up in value. You can't buy them anymore, but you can borrow against them or sell and make some big $$.

[Paco500]

I couldn't even come close. It's damn frustrating. I've got a boatload of equity in my house, but it's pretty meaningless, as I can't afford to upgrade. I'd love to move to a single family home, but unless I willing to trade a 5 min. commute for a 45-min to and hour commute, I'm pretty much stuck in a townhouse.

Oh well. Maybe my kids will get a yard for their kids to play in when I retire.

[SimeyTheLimey]

Originally Posted by macroy

had a interesting conversation over the weekend with a few friends.

We were discussing the continued rise of real estate prices all over the US (and especially in the DC area). A buddy made a comment that he would not be able to buy his house now as its gone up so much.

And we all pondered a sec.... "Damn.. neither can I.." We all realized.
Damn scary.

So - thought I just pop the question - if you were looking for a house today, would you be able to afford the one you currently own?

First of all, you do live in Potomac, MD -- land of the McMansion. That's a bit of an extreme example. But you probably could afford your house because to buy another house like it, you'd sell your current house and cash in that equity you are complaining about. Then you'd only need a new mortgage to cover the difference between your current house, and a similar one. Real estate in a given area tends to appreciate more or less in lockstep so if you really did exchange like with like, you'd probably end up with a mortgage not all that different from what you have now. That is, unless perhaps you tried to move from Potomac to an even more expensive neighborhood -- of which there are few even in the DC area.

What I take it you are actually saying is that if you were a new buyer without an expensive home to sell you wouldn't be able to buy into the Potomac, MD market on your current income. Possibly, its a very exclusive area. The reason for that appreciation is that a lot of people want to buy houses like yours in your area. There are a lot of wealthy people in the DC area, traffic is getting worse, and Potomac is close in to where those people work. So it is very desirable and scarcity of any commodity will make the price rise. It's a sellers' market, and believe me, you'd be screaming more if it were otherwise.

[Y3a]

Well, I live in Sterling, just over the Loudoun County line at Sugarland Run. They are 30 year old homes. I was lucky because the sellers couldn't sell it because of the paint job inside. Most were going for 400K+ We offered 350K and got it. I sold a townhouse I owned in Centreville, Va for 253K! I bought IT in 1988 for 104K. Both my fiance' and myself are needed to live comfortably. What makes a sh*#hole WORTH the money is HOW MUCH THE LAST ONE SOLD FOR - and what kind of sucker would PAY IT!

It depends on WHERE in Alexandria OR Potomac you live. I take it you don't live in Arlandria...

[macroy]

Easy there Simey. I am definitely not "complaining" about my real estate situation. But just pointing out how "out of hand" this real estate market is - especially for those that are moving to a new area that costs more or if you are upgrading to a bigger home.

But you are absolutely right, if you are simply trading your house for a new one in the same area, it wouldn't make a difference what the market is like (although in a really bad market, you may lose some money on the sale of your house).

Still - it is scary that most folks who bought a house in the last 3-5 years (Not 15 years, not 10 years.. but 3 years) can no longer afford that same house at today's prices. And we're talking all around the area, like Gaithersburg, Germantown, Ashburn, Sterling etc...

... and even more so in Alexandria.

BTW - while I do live in Potomac, I definitely do not have a "McMansion" Although it would be nice to make like 10 million a year to be able to afford one of those...

[ort888]

Since I just bought my house last month, I'm pretty sure I can still afford it. At least I hope I can, because if I can't, I'm pretty much screwed.

[andi*pandi]

I'm not sure we could afford it before we bought it.

[Demonhood]

don't own. the median price of a house in my area is a cool million.
i remember reading something recently that said houses used to cost around the same as a year's salary. but they've gone up at a much much higher rate than salaries have (which haven't really moved all that much in 40 years).

[DeathMan]

Houses where I live that 2 years ago cost $130K now sell for over $250K. I don't own a house, and don't intend to do so in the near future. I was finishing school, and had no real full time job 2 years ago, and now, even if I were working full time, I doubt I could afford what 2 years ago I would consider a modest house. The local job market has not yet caught up with real estate boom.

[SimeyTheLimey]

Originally Posted by macroy

Easy there Simey. I am definitely not "complaining" about my real estate situation. But just pointing out how "out of hand" this real estate market is - especially for those that are moving to a new area that costs more or if you are upgrading to a bigger home.

But you are absolutely right, if you are simply trading your house for a new one in the same area, it wouldn't make a difference what the market is like (although in a really bad market, you may lose some money on the sale of your house).

Still - it is scary that most folks who bought a house in the last 3-5 years (Not 15 years, not 10 years.. but 3 years) can no longer afford that same house at today's prices. And we're talking all around the area, like Gaithersburg, Germantown, Ashburn, Sterling etc...

... and even more so in Alexandria.

BTW - while I do live in Potomac, I definitely do not have a "McMansion" Although it would be nice to make like 10 million a year to be able to afford one of those...

It's certainly true that people are getting priced out of areas and having to look elsewhere for a home they can afford. My point is that this isn't something remarkable. If you have a market and people bidding on a scarce commodity within that market, then it's a straight-forward fact of economic life that the people with the most money are going to out bid everyone else and then bid among themselves until only one of them can afford to buy the scarce item. Land is the prototypical scarce commodity and so therefore it shows this bidding effect more.

There are several reasons why the DC area shows it more than many other areas. There are a lot of people here with a lot of money relative to other people. They can out bid poorer people, and will bid among themselves, driving up housing values.

At the same time, there is more than a normal amound of scarcity. Whole counties around here are considered unacceptable to live in for one reason or another. Middle class people (i.e. homeowners) by and large will not buy in Northeast DC, Southeast DC, or parts of Prince George's County for fear of getting shot. Then less dramatically, traffic is such that people who work in the city would prefer not to live too far out. The combination means everyone is competing in a tiny little space.

There are two basic reasons for this. First, it's just a congested area with overcrowded highways and too few bridges over the river. Second, most of the local county governments have a NIMBY anti-growth mentality, so they won't build roads or zone appropriately. If there was most density allowed closer into the city (e.g. more apartments, and fewer single family homes) people could afford to live closer in. Unfortunately, that's the only way to do it. You can't repeal the laws of supply and demand and if you don't add to supply and demand keeps going up, the result is that the price demanded will go up.

[Railroader]

We currently live in a median priced home in our area. We currently have our house listed for sale for about 25% more than what we paid about 3 years ago.

We plan on buying a house costing a little less than twice what our house is valued at now. The plan is that it is our last house until we die or something else catastrophic occurrs.

We are looking at country lots with 5 or more acres and newer construction. I want to be able to build a workshop that is unattached to the main house. I also grew up out in the country and want my kids to experience the same things I did.

EDITED: 25% more

[C.J. Moof]

If I had to mortgage the entire value of my house, probably not. Fortunately, selling my old house was quite profitable, which meant I could make a large down payment, and finance less than 2/3 of the cost of the new one.

One thing I overlooked was keeping some more cash on hand for new furniture. The stuff from a 1000 square foot house begins to look a bit spread out and akward in a 2300 square foot place...

[Scotttheking]

This area is nuts. I would like to stay here after I graduate (I'm from AZ), but there's no way that I will be able to afford anything even a few years after I graduate.

[historylme]

Check this site out for all your shopping (home buying I mean).
http://www.housingmaps.com/

Edit: It's off topic.

[macroy]

Originally Posted by Scotttheking

This area is nuts. I would like to stay here after I graduate (I'm from AZ), but there's no way that I will be able to afford anything even a few years after I graduate.

Where in AZ? Love that place... looking to move out there at some point. Just returned from a golf outting in Scottsdale. Some of those houses by Troon North are gorgous. But I think Tucson is more our style. Phoenix area is a bit too congested for our taste.

To me, it's not a question of whether I can afford it or not. It's would I actually pay that much for something I don't think is worth it. The going rate for CRAPPY houses in my corner of the state are $150k...median is $250k. You want cheaper? You're moving next to a crack dealer. I can't fathom spending over what I make a year for a house.

Most of new houses that are built aren't worth more than half of what they sell for, to me. I mean, they're made out of particle board for crying out loud!

I'll continue "throwing away" money on apartment rent each month for the convenience of not having to deal with home repair stuff and the ability to leave whenever I want and not find someone to buy the place. Which with the state of things now, would probably be a very long time.

[RAILhead]

Not right this moment, no -- if you mean pay for it in cash. After some stiff negotiations, we managed to buy a house $91,000 (and change) under what the seller was asking because we showed up with a cashier's check for the full amount. We now have a quite large home in the best part of town.

So to answer your question, if, by my standards, could I buy my home with cash again right now? No. Give me a few of years, and yes. If you're talking about financing it, then yes, of course I could -- and then some.

The key is to try and pay cash if you can, but if you must finance, make sure the mortgage payment isn't any more than 25% to 35% of your take home pay, or you run the risk of owning WAAAAY too much house, depending upon your spending habits.

Maury

[ghporter]

Railroader, do you mean "25% of what you paid" or "25% more than what you paid?" It's kind of confusing the way you put it. What part of "the state that looks like a mitten" do you live in? (And ain't it great to have a state map with you all the time? "I grew up here, but now I live here..." I do it all the time!) Some markets in Michigan have changed radically in just the last few years, while others (the "money" spots like St. Claire Shores, Grosse Point, etc., are still stupid expensive compared to other areas, but more places away from larger cities are getting pricey now. I remember riding with my family "out in the country" in Wayne county...IS there any "out in the country" in Wayne county any more?

I live in San Antonio, Texas now, and the bubble continues to grow here. We bought a new house three years ago, and while it continues to appreciate (just ask the tax assessor!), it isn't ballooning. Below the national median price, it is still affordable, though getting the loan would be harder now since I'm a student instead of being employed. In some areas here, though, a three year old home is now worth as much as 25% more than what it cost to build. It's all about location, and some locations are commanding huge premiums. It's the same all over.

[Scotttheking]

Originally Posted by macroy

Where in AZ? Love that place... looking to move out there at some point. Just returned from a golf outting in Scottsdale. Some of those houses by Troon North are gorgous. But I think Tucson is more our style. Phoenix area is a bit too congested for our taste.

East Mesa. When my mom moved, she sold her house for $550k (buyer got a STEAL) because she wanted out, it took 2 years to sell and by the time it sold she could have easily asked $700k, and now she lives a little further east in a smaller house.

Potomac is nice from what I've seen. I drove by a friend's house on Post Oak road, I think it was. Small, but nice. I saw some of the mansions too, some of those are nice, some are just, well, ick.

[wdlove]

In my current situation, I couldn't afford to purchase my house at its current value. Luckily I have the mortgage paid off, although still have a home equity loan.

[dav]

Originally Posted by Y3a

I sold a townhouse I owned in Centreville, Va for 253K!

i have a single family home in centreville. not sure if i could afford it at what it is worth now.

[mitchell_pgh]

I'm actually considering buying a good hour+ ouside DC and taking the train in. I've been looking, but unless you have a cool 1/2 million you are looking at one bedroom condos.

Oh well.

[zerostar]

We couldn't afford our first home 5 years ago, but took a chance and made due and luckily sold for double what we paid 2 years later, with that we are moved in to a nicer home and have a smaller mortgage. Last I looked the prices of homes similar to mine have gone up another 30% over what I paid. I don't want to leave the area and have no need for a larger house (this is a 4/3/2 pool home on 1/3 acre) so we will stay here for many years to come.

p.s. my commute is 4 hrs. a day/7 days a week, and I still won't move

[KeriVit]

My house in New England has nearly tripled in value in the last 10 years. Though I had to borrow a small amount off the equity, I still stand to make a nice chunk of change. The thing that has gotten me though is the property tax rising. After re-evaluation, the tax went from $2100 a year to $4400 a year. Obviously, the escrow didn't cover this and my monthly payment has gone up nearly $400.

At any rate, I am planning to sell the house here and buy one for half the price down in Georgia- hoping that when I sell that later, I can break even on that one. In the meantime, the equity will be paying for 2 years of graduate school and sitting in the new house.

[RAILhead]

Our taxes only went up about 3%, but they've been doing major over-appraisals. They over-appraised our home by $31,000.

However, a trip to the County Courthouse and a 3 hour wait ended with our taxes dropping based on $500 LESS than what we paid for the house; our tax bill went from just over $9000 down to to $6000 thanks to 3 hours of sitting on my butt.



Can't everyone dispute their taxes -- surely that's not something only Texans can do...?

Maury

[andi*pandi]

I recall complaining right after we moved in, that they had reappraised my house to be $450k because someone down the street built a mcmansion... and there's no way my house would sell for that... but I recall also hearing the sound of wind blowing, the wind of bored redtape pushers.

perhaps next time we will try the Maury approach.

[KeriVit]

I can't really dispute it honestly. They hadn't appraised for 15 years. So when they did, the value doubled, but the rate went down.

[karent]

Originally Posted by SimeyTheLimey

<snip>
Whole counties around here are considered unacceptable to live in for one reason or another. Middle class people (i.e. homeowners) by and large will not buy in Northeast DC, Southeast DC, or parts of Prince George's County for fear of getting shot. Then less dramatically, traffic is such that people who work in the city would prefer not to live too far out. The combination means everyone is competing in a tiny little space.

Originally Posted by scotttheking

This area is nuts.

I live in PG county, in Bowie. Bought our house in 1992 for $230K, currently owe $180K, and our model is going for $480K now. No, we really couldn't afford our house now, nor could we afford anything as a step up. I don't have Simey's mentioned fear of getting shot, but we have been broken into twice (see link below). Sure, I could move out away from the maddening crowd, but I don't want to add to my 35 minute commute or be farther away than 10 minutes from a GOOD grocery store. There are people who commute from the other side of the Bay bridge, they are all crazy. Then there are the schools to consider...., and PG does have a really good special ed system.

[macroy]

Originally Posted by Scotttheking

Potomac is nice from what I've seen. I drove by a friend's house on Post Oak road, I think it was. Small, but nice. I saw some of the mansions too, some of those are nice, some are just, well, ick.

Post oak - over by Chruchill High School is an older area so the houses there are from the 60s... (but still over a million due to the land it sits on). Most of then don't even have garages (just car ports).

Take a drive down River Rd sometime.... that's where the "McMansions" are located.

[Railroader]

Originally Posted by ghporter

Railroader, do you mean "25% of what you paid" or "25% more than what you paid?" It's kind of confusing the way you put it. What part of "the state that looks like a mitten" do you live in? (And ain't it great to have a state map with you all the time? "I grew up here, but now I live here..." I do it all the time!) Some markets in Michigan have changed radically in just the last few years, while others (the "money" spots like St. Claire Shores, Grosse Point, etc., are still stupid expensive compared to other areas, but more places away from larger cities are getting pricey now. I remember riding with my family "out in the country" in Wayne county...IS there any "out in the country" in Wayne county any more?

25% more. I edited my post to make it clearer.

We live about half way between Lansing and Flint just off I-69 in a small town called Durand. House prices here are a little higher than just North of us. This is due to the fact that you can commute to Lansing, Flint, or Saginaw very easily. But the prices are nothing compared houses that are located South and East of us in the Northern part of Oakland county or South Genessee county. Houses in Goodrich, Grand Blanc, Fenton and Holly have seen 50%+ increases each year for the last 4-6 years.

I think there's one tiny forrest left in Wayne county. But they are planning to tear it down. Royal Oak is crazy right now. People are buying $250,000 houses and tearing them down just to rebuild. That's over $300,000 for a lot. About 3/32 of an acre! A friend bought a 2 bedroom condo for $100,000 a couple years ago in St. Clair Shores and recently sold it for $300,000.

[Tito Puente]

House prices where I live are rocketing up. Luckily we bought ours a number of years ago.

[scaught]

Originally Posted by Railroader

I think there's one tiny forrest left in Wayne county. But they are planning to tear it down. Royal Oak is crazy right now. People are buying $250,000 houses and tearing them down just to rebuild. That's over $300,000 for a lot. About 3/32 of an acre! A friend bought a 2 bedroom condo for $100,000 a couple years ago in St. Clair Shores and recently sold it for $300,000.

ya. wayne county is all strip malls. the really sad part is seeing all the development taking out the little farm communities between canton and ann arbor. used to be just these quiet little houses on acres of land. now its strip malls and fancy housing developments and mini mansions. money talks, i guess. condos in wayne county have done really well. a friend of mine got into one in canton for 160. it had gone to 240 in a year. im sure its double his original price at this point.

royal oak has been crazy, but especially lately with the fancy studio things theyre building all up and down main street and selling at insane prices. theyre trying to create that "downtown" living thing (like chicago or NY or london), with only a couple blocks of "downtown". kind of weird.

my place in garden city (not exactly luxurious living, doesnt have all that great of schools) has gone up like 12% since i moved in in september 2001 according to the appraisal i had done in january. and i have done absolutely NOTHING to the place. yet.

[Kevin]

I've owned my own house for about 5 years now. No mortgage or anything like that either.

Makes my paycheck a lot fatter

[Railroader]

Originally Posted by scaught

royal oak has been crazy, but especially lately with the fancy studio things theyre building all up and down main street and selling at insane prices. theyre trying to create that "downtown" living thing (like chicago or NY or london), with only a couple blocks of "downtown". kind of weird. )

developers are doing the same thing in Bay City, MI. But people are buying them. I cannot fathom why. Most of them are directly on the Saginaw river and if you saw that sludge you'd think the people were insane.

[dreilly1]

I think part of the reason for home prices going so high relative to incomes is that people are using low down payments, Adjustable-rate loans with low initial payments, and interest-only loans to buy more house than they would be able to afford on a traditional 30-year fixed mortgage. There are lots of people doing this, and they're basically speculating in the real estate market with their primary residence. This speculation serves to increase demand for larger houses and acts as a feedback loop, sending prices higher. If housing prices keep going up, and they sell after a few years, they stand to make a profit, But it seems too risky to me. What is prices go down and you can't sell for enough to pay off the loan?

I've also read a while back that the cost of building materials had gone up in the past few years, partially since we were sending so much building material to Iraq, but I imagine there must be other factors as well. (And I don't want to bog this down in a discussion on Iraq!). That could also contribute to the price increase, since the same house that was built three years ago could very well cost 10-20% more if you were building it today. I'm not sure whether this increase in materials cost is still happening, though. And if it is, I don't know whether prices will go down if this trend reverses....

[RAILhead]

Trust me, the materials cost has nothing to with Iraq -- but it IS all politics and PACs. We're in the construction business and for the last several years (before the war ever started) prices for basic things like plywood were starting to skyrocket. For the money we're spending on materials (we do scaffolding, pipe insulation and fabrications, fire blankets, asbestos abatement, etc.) now, we could have bought double the quantity for the same price five years ago. We just got through adding a new materials supplier for the cost reason yesterday, as a matter of fact.

Anyway, while it sucks now, things are actually starting to smooth out, and by this time next year -- if the monthly trends project true (and we've right on that for over 20 years) -- materials prices will begin to drop again.

Maury

[ghporter]

One MAJOR reason housing prices are rising so rapidly is speculators. People are buying houses to sell them, often without doing anything to them in the process, or with only minor cosmetic changes. The "Cathy" comic from Tuesday addressed that; Cathy and Irving have just sold both their houses and can't find a house to buy together because the prices are climbing so rapidly.

It's not just crazy, it's stupid crazy.

[RAILhead]

Originally Posted by ghporter

One MAJOR reason housing prices are rising so rapidly is speculators. People are buying houses to sell them, often without doing anything to them in the process, or with only minor cosmetic changes. The "Cathy" comic from Tuesday addressed that; Cathy and Irving have just sold both their houses and can't find a house to buy together because the prices are climbing so rapidly.

It's not just crazy, it's stupid crazy.

BIG TIME! There's even some show on HGTV or something called "Property Ladder" that "showcases" people doing just that -- and it's a HORRIBLE way to make money! The risk involved is so high that most human beings should avoid it like grim death.

Maury

[scaught]

Originally Posted by Railroader

developers are doing the same thing in Bay City, MI. But people are buying them. I cannot fathom why. Most of them are directly on the Saginaw river and if you saw that sludge you'd think the people were insane.

Bay City, MI. Certainly the top 5 places i think of when i think "cultural mecca".

[Railroader]

Originally Posted by scaught

Bay City, MI. Certainly the top 5 places i think of when i think "cultural mecca".

Actually, there a few different cultures in Bay City. It is a large Polish community. A good sized Mexican community that is growing rapidly, a decent Black community, and a few other small ethnic groups. For being a small town there are a number of different cultures.

There is a thriving arts community and a good tourist industry for boating and bar hopping. I had heard at one time that Bay City has more bars per sq. mile than all of Michigan.

But, there is near zero growth in the area. I just don't see the demand for the condos. They had a good sized brew pub open and close with in a couple years because there wasn't much business.

I took some pictures of the condo development on my way to work. I'll try to post them in the next few days.

[sminch]

just in the process of buying our first house (which is relatively cheap here in new zealand - getting a three bedroom house on 700m2 of land a 15 minute commute from the capital and it's just over $300k nz, or $200k us) and prices are going up pretty fast here, easily rising 10% per year, often doing double that. coastal properties have been going nuts, mostly driven by offshore buyers who have just realised that you can get a nice seaside house for a fraction what you'd pay anywhere else.

anyway, my mortgage broker was spending more time trying to convince me to buy a second or third property asap than he was spending sorting out my mortgage - seems that every man and his dog here is buying multiple properties, getting mortgaged to the hilt, and then hoping prices keep rising and interest rates stay down (plus of course hoping that not maintenance will need doing, the tenants won't leave etc etc.)

it all sounds dodgy as hell to me, pretty much just driving your own capital gains, sorta like lifting yourself up by your shoelaces...

sminch

[ghporter]

Originally Posted by Railroader

There is a thriving arts community and a good tourist industry for boating and bar hopping. I had heard at one time that Bay City has more bars per sq. mile than all of Michigan.

Arts or crafts community, plus some tourist draw equals a fair chance at a successful city without real industry (like Flint or Detroit has). Look at Traverse City-a really vibrant arts community, the Cherry Festival (darn, but I miss cherry cider!), and of course the lake! That's ALL Traverse City really has, and it draws people like a magnet every year. Unfortunately, you can't live there because of the vacation cottage crowd driving up the price of housing...

I have to wonder where all the people that work on Key West live-I don't know how a waitress or office worker could afford the kind of rent they charge there!

[Railroader]

Originally Posted by ghporter

Arts or crafts community, plus some tourist draw equals a fair chance at a successful city without real industry (like Flint or Detroit has). Look at Traverse City-a really vibrant arts community, the Cherry Festival (darn, but I miss cherry cider!), and of course the lake! That's ALL Traverse City really has, and it draws people like a magnet every year. Unfortunately, you can't live there because of the vacation cottage crowd driving up the price of housing...

I have to wonder where all the people that work on Key West live-I don't know how a waitress or office worker could afford the kind of rent they charge there!

Bay city is a large industrial town. More than an arts/tourist town. A lot of suppot for the auto industry and sugar manufacturing.

Traverse city is quite industrial too. They just jeep it hidden quite well. My in-laws live in Acme. Father-in-law is a design engineer. He used to work for a toy company up there and then an auto parts manufaturer.

There is a large cherry, wine, and fruit industry in TC too.

Housing in TC isn't so bad as long as you can't see any water. Actually it's very cheap compared to what people have mentioned on here. A 2500 sq. ft. new construction house on a nice sized lot will only run you about $225,000. And that's a country subdivision less than a half mile from the coast. But if you can see a sliver of water from the lot you can add about $75,000.

[d0ubled0wn]

Also buying my first house soon, possibly making an offer next week. I've been in apartments ever since I moved out 10 years ago, so my head is swimming trying to make sense of all the mumbo-jumbo that goes with homeownership. I'm looking in the 150-170K range. What a trip it's been looking at houses for the past month! One house selling for 160K where I would consider the bare basement it's best feature, and another house same asking price and it's bigger and better in every conceivable way.

[Scotttheking]

Originally Posted by macroy

Post oak - over by Chruchill High School is an older area so the houses there are from the 60s... (but still over a million due to the land it sits on). Most of then don't even have garages (just car ports).

Take a drive down River Rd sometime.... that's where the "McMansions" are located.

Yeah, it's older. I don't remember if there was a garage on the house. It can't be too small, the family has 4 kids, but probably not too big either.

I was at one of those houses a few months ago, not bad. I've also driven the road with some family that were looking there. Like I said, some are nice, but some aren't so great looking.

And today I spent the day on the eastern shore with some of said family helping setup the kitchen of their new vacation house that sits on 4 acres with a private dock, boat, etc. Primary house is in Bethesda.

Yet, I live in a 2 br apartment in College Park. Yay me.

[ghporter]

Originally Posted by Railroader

Bay city is a large industrial town. More than an arts/tourist town. A lot of suppot for the auto industry and sugar manufacturing.

I should have said "even without" real industry. Sorry.

Housing in TC isn't so bad as long as you can't see any water. Actually it's very cheap compared to what people have mentioned on here. A 2500 sq. ft. new construction house on a nice sized lot will only run you about $225,000. And that's a country subdivision less than a half mile from the coast. But if you can see a sliver of water from the lot you can add about $75,000.

Yeah, that's the kicker. If you don't mind not seeing all the lakes around there-which are a MAJOR draw for the area-you can afford housing around the national median cost. I remember vacationing near Torch Lake. We stayed at a relative's resort on a little lake, or we couldn't have afforded it at all. And driving for a while to get to Torch Lake itself wasn't that big a deal.

[DigitalEl]

Great topic. I just moved last week. My wife & I bought our starter home 2 years ago. It gained 40% in value in that two years... Prompting us to cash out and trade up. Our new house is up about 3% just in the time it took them to build it... Hell, our landscaping isn't even done yet and the equity is building. We're in the Phoenix area, BTW. Goodyear, AZ, to be exact... West Valley, yo!

These be crazy times.

PS -- No non-traditional financing or hocus pocus numbers here. No ARMs or zero down BS either. We were just blessed to be in the right place at the right time.