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You are here: MacNN Forums > Software - Troubleshooting and Discussion > macOS > Will Apple BLOW OUR MINDS with 10.5's interface?

Will Apple BLOW OUR MINDS with 10.5's interface? (Page 6)
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Skywalkers new Hand
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Jun 19, 2006, 11:39 PM
 
ok think about the tray in dashboard. The way you can hit next and slide over to another panel. do you think the dock will gain a slider feature like that?

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Salty
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Jun 20, 2006, 02:15 AM
 
I don't think the dock is going to get lil things like that for multiple docks. I think what would make more sense is to have either a small icon on the end, or between the folders/trash and the apps, that when clicked would allow you to select both dock options (like right clicking there now does) and included would be options for multiple dock layouts.
     
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Jun 20, 2006, 05:46 AM
 
Originally Posted by Skywalkers new Hand
I know and I love it. It makes things so much easier for my eyes as a designer. The colours look better and the whole screen is not blaring white just your work.
Dude. As a designer you should know that optimally your work will always look best in a neutral grey environment, not black.

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Jun 20, 2006, 05:58 AM
 
Reconsidering the topic, I have come to the conclusion that; no Apple will *not* BLOW OUR MINDS with 10.5's interface. It will be similarly confused and inconsistent as OS X's interface has been from the very start. It will perhaps be even less Mac-like and more abstract than ever before.

The Finder won't change at all and will just introduce some minor 'improvements' to Spotlight. Maybe brushed metal will say its farewells finally, but that's just irrelevant cosmetic change. No fundamental change or important UI fixes, upgrades, improvements or Macintoshness will find its way into 10.5's Finder or UI.

More eye candy? You bet! Anything to attract attention and nothing to improve the normal, non-nerdy person's experience with the Mac. Meh. I'll upgrade whatever they throw at me, if for nothing else than to have the latest security fixes, better networking (hey it's always improving!), more reliability and um... whatever else that blurb always says.

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Socially Awkward Solo
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Jun 20, 2006, 09:06 AM
 
Originally Posted by - - e r i k - -
Dude. As a designer you should know that optimally your work will always look best in a neutral grey environment, not black.
Yup i do that for proofing but staring at grey all day does not make me happy.

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Socially Awkward Solo
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Jun 20, 2006, 09:07 AM
 
Double retarded forum.

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Socially Awkward Solo
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Jun 20, 2006, 09:27 AM
 
Originally Posted by voodoo
Reconsidering the topic, I have come to the conclusion that; no Apple will *not* BLOW OUR MINDS with 10.5's interface. It will be similarly confused and inconsistent as OS X's interface has been from the very start. It will perhaps be even less Mac-like and more abstract than ever before.

The Finder won't change at all and will just introduce some minor 'improvements' to Spotlight. Maybe brushed metal will say its farewells finally, but that's just irrelevant cosmetic change. No fundamental change or important UI fixes, upgrades, improvements or Macintoshness will find its way into 10.5's Finder or UI.

More eye candy? You bet! Anything to attract attention and nothing to improve the normal, non-nerdy person's experience with the Mac. Meh. I'll upgrade whatever they throw at me, if for nothing else than to have the latest security fixes, better networking (hey it's always improving!), more reliability and um... whatever else that blurb always says.

V
Bitter?

What is your ideal OS interface? OS9?

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Tyre MacAdmin
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Jun 20, 2006, 10:02 AM
 
I think we'll see some new stuff. I think the alt-tab feature in vista is nice. I'd like to see that added.
     
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Jun 20, 2006, 10:29 AM
 
Originally Posted by Tyler McAdams
I think we'll see some new stuff. I think the alt-tab feature in vista is nice. I'd like to see that added.
It doesn't really make much sense in OS X though. In Vista, it shows all open windows/documents - cool. In OS X, alt + tab traditionally shows all running applications. This will become rather complicated if the GUI would somehow show all Windows running in an application, would break convention if it showed all windows like it does in Windows (perhaps an option to do this might be okay though).
     
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Jun 20, 2006, 06:54 PM
 
Supposedly, 10.5 will look something like this leaked screenshot.
     
CharlesS
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Jun 20, 2006, 07:04 PM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c
It doesn't really make much sense in OS X though. In Vista, it shows all open windows/documents - cool. In OS X, alt + tab traditionally shows all running applications. This will become rather complicated if the GUI would somehow show all Windows running in an application, would break convention if it showed all windows like it does in Windows (perhaps an option to do this might be okay though).
Control-F4.

(you can reassign it in System Prefs if that particular keystroke is too awkward)

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moonmonkey
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Jun 20, 2006, 07:05 PM
 
Originally Posted by Kerrigan
Supposedly, 10.5 will look something like this leaked screenshot.
Wow thats cool, where did you get it?
Fingers crossed those advances make it into the final.
     
CharlesS
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Jun 20, 2006, 08:05 PM
 
Originally Posted by moonmonkey
Wow thats cool, where did you get it?
Fingers crossed those advances make it into the final.
I really hope you're joking (as the post you quoted was)...

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Kerrigan
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Jun 20, 2006, 08:19 PM
 
Of course he's kidding!
     
voodoo
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Jun 20, 2006, 10:24 PM
 
Originally Posted by Socially Awkward Solo
Bitter?

What is your ideal OS interface? OS9?
Realistic. While the OS has been pretty good and I'm very pleased with it I don't know what Apple has been smoking when it comes to UI.

My ideal UI is something as consistent as OS 9, but not OS 9. It feels ancient now.

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Jun 21, 2006, 03:23 AM
 
I can't tell you what the next major new feature is. But I can tell you it's code name is "Salute" I"M KIDDING
     
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Jun 21, 2006, 07:47 AM
 
I'd like to make a dashboard widget or two sticky. so my stock ticker or whatever is always visible. I think the "tray" or whatever it's called in vista is actually a good idea as an option. a couple a widgets there full time in a specific spot. maybe you can merge the idea with the dock somehow. have a mini "indicator" version of a widget in the dock and when you click it only that widget comes up. everything is going wide screen so there is room at the side.

As to the blow you mind thing, I bet we'll see more cool stuff with the transparency and layers. Maybe a new kind of preview where you look -into- something to see it's details. like peep hole or an x-ray view, instead of an info pop-up you pull the curtain aside to reveal the details.

How about a built-in collaboration API, like subEthaEdit has. Allow any app to easily add networked co-editing and viewing. I can give you access to one of my mail folders, like with iTunes. You can run preview and log into the photo l'm looking at. You can easily let me watch the video you have open in quicktime player. I share my calculator window so you can copy and paste the result. The whole staff can work on a spread sheet simultaneously. You insert transitions in your iMovie while I do the titles. Any document in any application can be shared as long as other users have the same application. Call it "Telepathy" or something.
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Socially Awkward Solo
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Jun 21, 2006, 09:33 AM
 
I think Apple should make better use of sheets and not just for saving files.

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Chuckit
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Jun 21, 2006, 11:06 AM
 
In what cases do you think Apple should be using sheets that it isn't?
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Landos Mustache
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Jun 21, 2006, 01:40 PM
 
Originally Posted by Chuckit
In what cases do you think Apple should be using sheets that it isn't?
I'd like to see them use them instead of trays or to adjust preferences. Trays never caught on cuz they were sorta ugly and stuck out awkwardly.

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TheoCryst
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Jun 21, 2006, 01:54 PM
 
Originally Posted by Socially Awkward Solo
What is your ideal OS interface? OS9?
Hey, I liked Platinum! Way nicer than the classic Windows interface, at least.

Any ramblings are entirely my own, and do not represent those of my employers, coworkers, friends, or species
     
Landos Mustache
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Jun 21, 2006, 02:09 PM
 
Some of the things I want in 10.5

A totally new, fullscreen finder that hides other apps when you bring it forward.

New folder icons (small thing)

Animated icons

window opening and closing effects like in dashboard

Assistants like were supposed to be in Copland.

iChat that can call land lines

iChat that works with MSN

new faster kernal

A more useful dock. For example I want it to have little buttons so I can control the play/stop of iTunes without having to hold the mouse down to bring up a popup list.

an option to hide background apps automatically

A new safari that does a quick crossfade when loading another site or page or similar subtile effect

The death of aqua. It is almost 10 years old now.

Themes (a black/gray one)

Better network browser

Dashboard that can load updates in the background so I don't get a 10 second delay on top of the line hardware

Quartz extreme 2D

Resolution independent GUI

Redesigned scrollbars, buttons etc. On 30 inch screens they are tiny.

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CharlesS
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Jun 21, 2006, 02:18 PM
 
Originally Posted by Landos Mustache
A totally new, fullscreen finder that hides other apps when you bring it forward.
What?! No thanks, I like using multiple windows! Why on God's green earth would you want the Finder of all things to be full-screen on today's huge monitors?

Animated icons
Ugh, no thanks...

new faster kernal
What the heck is a 'kernal'?

A more useful dock. For example I want it to have little buttons so I can control the play/stop of iTunes without having to hold the mouse down to bring up a popup list.
This would be very difficult to use if the Dock is set to a small size, or if magnification is turned on.

A new safari that does a quick crossfade when loading another site or page or similar subtile effect
Shiira has transitions between pages. I turned it off.

The death of aqua. It is almost 10 years old now.
OS X came out in 2001. How is 5 years old almost 10 years old?

Dashboard that can load updates in the background so I don't get a 10 second delay on top of the line hardware
This would slow down the system during normal operation. There's a reason Dashboard doesn't do anything unless it's invoked.

Redesigned scrollbars, buttons etc. On 30 inch screens they are tiny.
You can thank the people who complained about the "huge" controls in the developer previews of 10.0 for that.

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Landos Mustache
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Jun 21, 2006, 02:28 PM
 
Originally Posted by CharlesS
OS X came out in 2001. How is 5 years old almost 10 years old?
Why not think back to when Apple SHOWED aqua and not just shipped it.


Originally Posted by CharlesS
Shiira has transitions between pages. I turned it off.
Strange cuz it is off by default. At any rate their implementation is ugly, apple can do better.

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Kerrigan
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Jun 21, 2006, 03:23 PM
 
I'd like to see a new Finder system based on an iPod-like system of files containing metadata and heirarchical menus to access them based on that metadata.

If I can pick out one file out of several thousand in a matter of seconds using the iPod's heirarchical menu system, then why can't the finder work this way?

Imagine using metadata to automatically categorize your files, and then having a full screen finder with a heirarchical menu system allowing you to speedily go through and find your file without all the clutter of the current finder.

The iPod's interface is simple but its strengths lie in the fact that everything is categorized, so as simple as it appears, I can still search for a song based on several critera.

On the iPod, you can go Songs > Artists > Beatles > All Albums > Penny Lane and in seconds you have the exact song you want.

It would be nice if I could use Finder to go: Documents > Word Processing > Filename > Essay22.doc

or Documents > Spreadsheets > Date > doc.xls (having found the document in a list of all my spreadsheets based on how recently they were created)

I've never had a problem finding a song using this method. Even an obscure song I haven't opened in ages, I can pull it up in 3 seconds. The same could work for our files.
     
Landos Mustache
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Jun 21, 2006, 03:38 PM
 
I agree, I always use column view unless I need to see a mass of icon previews at once, then I switch to icon view.

I only switch to list view to sort by kind as column view doesn't let you.

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besson3c
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Jun 21, 2006, 03:49 PM
 
I think the Finder should become a 3D interface where you can fly through a given directory in virtual space, looking at the files represented by a pie chart rendered to compare the number of characters in each filename. I want to be able to fly around and manipulate this pie graph, and then zoom in and press enter on the file that I want.
     
Chuckit
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Jun 21, 2006, 03:59 PM
 
Erm…that would be a joke, right, Besson?
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besson3c
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Jun 21, 2006, 04:00 PM
 
Originally Posted by Chuckit
Erm…that would be a joke, right, Besson?

What, you don't like pie charts?
     
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Jun 21, 2006, 04:01 PM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c
I think the Finder should become a 3D interface where you can fly through a given directory in virtual space, looking at the files represented by a pie chart rendered to compare the number of characters in each filename. I want to be able to fly around and manipulate this pie graph, and then zoom in and press enter on the file that I want.
Yes...I think we'd all love to fly.
     
Landos Mustache
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Jun 21, 2006, 04:25 PM
 
Check this out.

Not my cup of tea cuz it doesn't make anything easier just prettier:

http://honeybrown.ca/Pubs/BumpTop.html

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CharlesS
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Jun 21, 2006, 04:58 PM
 
Originally Posted by Landos Mustache
Why not think back to when Apple SHOWED aqua and not just shipped it.
Well I think it makes more sense to start something's age at a point when the public is actually able to get its hands on it, but fine. DP3 was in 2000. Since when is 6 years almost 10 years?

Strange cuz it is off by default.
Something probably changed since the first build I downloaded that had that feature, because I remember having to turn it off. Oh well.

I still don't understand why you'd want to slow down the browsing experience with needless transitions between all the pages you visit.

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slugslugslug
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Jun 21, 2006, 05:03 PM
 
Originally Posted by Kerrigan
I'd like to see a new Finder system based on an iPod-like system of files containing metadata and heirarchical menus to access them based on that metadata.

If I can pick out one file out of several thousand in a matter of seconds using the iPod's heirarchical menu system, then why can't the finder work this way?
Because music tracks for the most part have only a few salient fields, and pretty much everyone is okay about sorting by Genre->Artist->Album->Song. There just isn't a good taxonomic scheme that works for every file on a computer and suits every user's taste. I suppose they could create an option for folks to define a category hierarchy, but it doesn't make sense as a default finder interface.
     
Landos Mustache
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Jun 21, 2006, 05:03 PM
 
Originally Posted by CharlesS
Well I think it makes more sense to start something's age at a point when the public is actually able to get its hands on it, but fine. DP3 was in 2000. Since when is 6 years almost 10 years?
Well the the public beta came out in 2000 no?

10.5 doesn't ship till 2007.

So 7 years is pretty much 10. Who cares, in the computer world 2 years is old, aqua is old.

I also don't want to slow down a browsing experience, pages take time to load no matter the connection and by the time the transition is done the page could still be loading.

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Horsepoo!!!
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Jun 21, 2006, 05:28 PM
 
Originally Posted by Landos Mustache
Check this out.

Not my cup of tea cuz it doesn't make anything easier just prettier:

http://honeybrown.ca/Pubs/BumpTop.html
This is so ghey. I can't believe people are trying to mimic real world disorganization. I'm a disorgonized person...the last thing I want is the computer to let me be disorganized by allowing me to place things spatially and create piles which may hide important documents.

No...this is a neat-o physics tech demo...what we need is metadata searching...none of this bullshit that requires your to click and drag 3D documents as if they were real world objects in a constrained 3D space. I need to get to my documents fast, in the least number of clicks possible and if I have to drag anything in the process of finding this document, the interface is officially a piece of ****.

Sure...some people will love this interface...but it'll take them 10-20 times longer to find a specific file. If that's your cup of tea...BumpTop is your software!
     
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Jun 21, 2006, 06:29 PM
 
Originally Posted by Landos Mustache
Check this out.

Not my cup of tea cuz it doesn't make anything easier just prettier:

http://honeybrown.ca/Pubs/BumpTop.html

Hardly original when looking at this: OSX Stacks - idea from 1994
     
Kerrigan
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Jun 21, 2006, 06:42 PM
 
I think Apple could do some pretty radical things with a Expose, Dashboard, and a revamped Finder.

With a Finder like the one I described above, you could do away with the desktop. Dashboard could replace the desktop and serve as the "bottom" layer of the UI. So for instance, you boot up and the first thing you see is your background image and your widgets. Then, through the dock you could launch Finder and other apps. Single-window mode would be enabled by default, and a button(s) to activate expose could be located in the dock to help switch between open apps.
( Last edited by Kerrigan; Jun 21, 2006 at 06:49 PM. )
     
slugslugslug
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Jun 21, 2006, 06:54 PM
 
Like SWG said, that BumpTop thing looks kinda cool but loses tons of usability. I love where they say you can find a file in a messy desktop by temporarily turning piles into grid views, but the icons have no previews or filenames. The lasso menu is also totally stupid looking. I suppose a round menu isn't as bad if you're using a pen instead of a mouse, but I doubt it's good, either. And why's that guy keep saying "lassoo"? Does anyone pronounce it that way?
     
Skywalkers new Hand
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Jun 21, 2006, 07:12 PM
 
Originally Posted by Macanoid
Hardly original when looking at this: OSX Stacks - idea from 1994

When did I say it was original?

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Horsepoo!!!
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Jun 21, 2006, 07:19 PM
 
Originally Posted by slugslugslug
Like SWG said, that BumpTop thing looks kinda cool but loses tons of usability. I love where they say you can find a file in a messy desktop by temporarily turning piles into grid views, but the icons have no previews or filenames. The lasso menu is also totally stupid looking. I suppose a round menu isn't as bad if you're using a pen instead of a mouse, but I doubt it's good, either. And why's that guy keep saying "lassoo"? Does anyone pronounce it that way?
It can be prononced lassoo or lasso...but I agree...lassoo sounds dumb...just like the interface demo.
     
besson3c
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Jun 21, 2006, 07:23 PM
 
That U of T demo is very cool, there are a lot of interesting ideas in there. I wouldn't suggest being completely dismissive of the whole thing.
     
Skywalkers new Hand
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Jun 21, 2006, 07:28 PM
 
Originally Posted by Kerrigan
I think Apple could do some pretty radical things with a Expose, Dashboard, and a revamped Finder.

With a Finder like the one I described above, you could do away with the desktop. Dashboard could replace the desktop and serve as the "bottom" layer of the UI. So for instance, you boot up and the first thing you see is your background image and your widgets. Then, through the dock you could launch Finder and other apps. Single-window mode would be enabled by default, and a button(s) to activate expose could be located in the dock to help switch between open apps.

Nice idea. What if there was no desktop to mess up like everyone does.

If you want to get to the finder the whole dock can slide up to the top exposing the finder as more of a browser. When you are in there you can easily drag files to other dock icons without everything overlapping it.

I would like as instead of windows you can have new panels in the finder so you can drag stuff from one area to the other.

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slugslugslug
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Jun 21, 2006, 07:49 PM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c
That U of T demo is very cool, there are a lot of interesting ideas in there. I wouldn't suggest being completely dismissive of the whole thing.
There were probably some interesting ideas in there. By the time I'd sat through the whole spiel, though, the ones that stuck out were the bad ones. All kinds of solution-in-search-of-a-problem kinda things. I mean, a hierarchical file structure is obviously running into limitations these days, with people doing more on their computers and having more space for lots of little files. But what's still good about hierarchical directories is that they prevent you from having to look at a whole bunch of files in one spot. This seems to be about all your files (including dozens of on-the-surface indiscernable PDFs) in one place, with no mention of moving up or down the levels to see different sets of them.

I don't know, perhaps I'll go back through there and try to find the pluses, but I think they're outweighed by the counterproductive novelties.
     
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Jun 21, 2006, 11:35 PM
 

Originally Posted by Kerrigan
I'd like to see a new Finder system based on an iPod-like system of files containing metadata and heirarchical menus to access them based on that metadata.

If I can pick out one file out of several thousand in a matter of seconds using the iPod's heirarchical menu system, then why can't the finder work this way?
Originally Posted by slugslugslug

Because music tracks for the most part have only a few salient fields, and pretty much everyone is okay about sorting by Genre->Artist->Album->Song. There just isn't a good taxonomic scheme that works for every file on a computer and suits every user's taste. I suppose they could create an option for folks to define a category hierarchy, but it doesn't make sense as a default finder interface.
This could work if it were kept as a loose virtual hierarchy. And only as an addition to normal column view. There are several standard bits of meta data that every file has. We already have a bit of this functionality, but it is spread around:

The Open Recent item in the file menu (any self respecting app has this)
The Go menu shows you recent folders where you saved/opened things
Smart folders can list files based on all sorts of criteria - most recent, etc.

Essentially you would have nested smart folders that can build themselves on the fly. But instead of fiddling with query building popups the interface would act just like browsing with column view.

Even with only four or five standard bits of info tunneling could be very useful.

most recent > text files > example.txt
applications > text edit > files > example.txt
text files > saved today > example.txt
text files > owned by me > example.txt
email attachments > I got yesterday > example.txt

And it would be loose, so that you could do this:

most recent > text files > example.txt

or this:

text files > most recent > example.txt

The beauty of this approach is there are many ways to tunnel in and find the same document. So no matter how your mind works one path will work for you. Very Mac-like!

This would rock if tied into the idea of "Projects" aka "Workspace" aka "Scene", etc. A group of related files.

If you could just tag your files with a couple of meta data fields on save this would be even more useful. A couple obvious ones are Project and Category , or define your own (keywords/tags, etc.). So as I save example.txt, with a couple of quick clicks I flag it as belonging to the " Bob Co Proposal " project and as "work related", and "draft" (or whatever).

Projects > Bob Co Proposal > all files > example.txt
Categories > work related > last month > example.txt

Once you get to example.txt you right click for the contextual menu and choose "open all documents in this project", and boom, everything related to "Bob Co. Proposal" opens in various applications. A spread sheet, two Word Docs, some artwork in photoshop, a couple of web pages with research and your notes (as 4 stickies) all pop up.
( Last edited by Gavin; Jun 21, 2006 at 11:41 PM. )
You can take the dude out of So Cal, but you can't take the dude outta the dude, dude!
     
Macanoid
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Jun 22, 2006, 02:21 AM
 
Originally Posted by Skywalkers new Hand
When did I say it was original?
You didn't and I never meant to imply that you did, sorry if that's how you read it. I saw this news mentioned on other sites where then did claim it was completely new. That may have triggered my reaction....
     
Landos Mustache
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Jun 22, 2006, 02:01 PM
 
I really like the look of Aperture, I hope 10.5 looks and acts much like it.

I don't like 3d on 2D monitors.

"Hello, what have we here?
     
zwiebel_
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Jun 23, 2006, 09:55 AM
 
Apparently two screenshots are posted here http://trinityrubicon.blogspot.com/

Shows a multi-desktop setup/animation. Interesting.
     
Simon
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Jun 23, 2006, 10:26 AM
 
Is that IE for Windows running like a Classic App?
     
real
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Jun 23, 2006, 12:10 PM
 
Originally Posted by zwiebel_
Apparently two screenshots are posted here http://trinityrubicon.blogspot.com/

Shows a multi-desktop setup/animation. Interesting.
tabbed finder windows kinda cool,

not a big fan of the multidesktop but to each its own


real
With some loud music + a friend to chat nearby you can get alot done. - but jezz, I'd avoid it if I had the choice---- If only real people came with Alpha Channels.......:)
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Landos Mustache
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Jun 23, 2006, 02:33 PM
 
Originally Posted by zwiebel_
Apparently two screenshots are posted here http://trinityrubicon.blogspot.com/

Shows a multi-desktop setup/animation. Interesting.
Ugly, dated and boring.

Who thinks the finder problems will be fixed because they added tabs and a blue background?

"Hello, what have we here?
     
 
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