[wiretap]

according to a message on version tracker, Qualcomm has halted the development of Eudora for X... (user apparently herd this straight from Qualcomm)...

There are still a few of us who would prefer to stay clear of MS email clients, and currently there are no other email clients with the power and functionality of Eudora. This is a "migration stopper" if this is really true, we need somebody to build a better email client (or apple needs to seriously beef up mail.app) and quick...

Running classic just to use eudora is getting old... an OS as powerful as X needs a uber email app... does anybody have any additional info on this?

[malvolio]

You could try the shareware email clients PowerMail or SweetMail.
I would be sorry to see Qualcomm end Eudora support for OS X, but to be honest, I haven't used Eudora since I got Entourage v.X.

[TheBum]

Granted, I don't use all of Eudora's capabilities, but I have been using the Eudora for OS X beta version since this past spring and it has always worked flawlessly for me.

[dtc]

Unless you feel Aqua is important.

Originally posted by TheBum:
<STRONG>Granted, I don't use all of Eudora's capabilities, but I have been using the Eudora for OS X beta version since this past spring and it has always worked flawlessly for me.</STRONG>

[kidtexas]

I would have to agree with the some of the above statements. I hope to god Qualcomm doesn't drop Eudora for X, but the current beta is pretty god damn good. Very stable (for me at least) and has all the features of the OS 9 version.

[dtc]

And the OS 9 UI. I saw the progress window and I immediately switched to Entourage X

Originally posted by kidtexas:
<STRONG>I would have to agree with the some of the above statements. I hope to god Qualcomm doesn't drop Eudora for X, but the current beta is pretty god damn good. Very stable (for me at least) and has all the features of the OS 9 version.</STRONG>

[Chris_G]

I agree that it would be sad to see Eudora not fully developed for OS X... especially when the beta seems so full-featured. Two issues I have, and was wondering if anyone else here had them:

1. Inline .gif or .jpg files do not show up in X... I simply get the broken picture icon.

2. Being on a 56K modem at home, I've set up Eudora in OS 9 to skip any downloads over a certain size until I okay the download from my mail server. Clicking on one of these in X brings down the whole program.

I have to admit, since I still switch back and forth from OS 9 to OS X, I'm sharing my Eudora files between Eudora 5.1 for OS 9 and the beta build for OS X. Anyone with any information or can confirm my findings I would greatly appreciate it.

Cheers!
Chris

[kidtexas]

&lt;BLOCKQUOTE&gt;&lt;font size="1"face="Geneva, Verdana, Arial"&gt;code:&lt;/font&gt;&lt;HR&gt;&lt;pre&gt;&lt;font size=1 face=courier&gt; And the OS &lt;font color = blue&gt;9&lt;/font&gt; UI. I saw the progress window and I immediately switched to Entourage X &lt;/font&gt;&lt;/pre&gt;&lt;HR&gt;&lt;/BLOCKQUOTE&gt;

hehehe. you got a point there. Still, I like Eudora's interface more than other programs. Everything is one or two clicks away without hogging the screen. I toyed around with Entourage today, trying to import my addresses, filters, and signatures, and it crashed. More importantly, I don't like the preview view (I really like double clicking on an email and having it open in its own window) and even though Entourage could do this, I didn't like how much space a single email took up on the screen.

I don't know. Eudora has power and the interface I like. And the 6 years of email already in the right format (30,000+ - about 150 mb). Maybe that's why I don't want to switch.

In response to the inline images not displaying right, they do work for me. I guess it is a beta and not stable for everybody... Don't know about the other problem since I always download (and save - see above) all of my email... no matter what the connection.

[ 12-14-2001: Message edited by: kidtexas ]

[toranaga]

Wow, in front of our very eyes, while we sit enthralled, MicroSoft is leveraging its monopoly with the Windows OS to create a monopoly in office applications on that platform to build a monopoly in email clients for that platform to extend its monopoly to email clients on other platforms (with the further intention of controlling a monopoly in email servers, in order to monopolize server operating systems).

Eudora may be the latest casualty of this corporate serial killer. Add its name to the list, below Netscape and all the others.

[Adam Silver]

Netscape still has an email client (and news reader and HTML editor and address book and AOL Instant Messenger) built into its software. In addition to POP and IMAP mail, it also supports AOL mail, Compuserve mail, and Netscape mail.

It's feature set is about the same as Microsoft's and it's free. All it's missing is a calendar, notes, and tasks. Those features can be found in Palm Desktop, which is also free.

Apple also has a mail client. It is free too.

There is nothing forcing you to use Entourage. Microsoft may have a monopoly but it doesn't extend into organizers and mail clients.

[wiretap]

while there are a handful of email client alternatives for os X, my initial concern stems more from the "commitment to another long lasting email solution" question...

I'm in a similar boat as kidtexas, i have been using eudora for like 7 years, i receive and sort 200+ emails a day. Eudora has always been there, and always worked really well... my eudora folder is 150+ megs, it's transitioned an upgraded across 9 computers flawlessly... i'm looking for an email client solution that looks promising and stable for another few years, what i dont want to do is begin importing an exporting my mail through different mail apps...

full blown eudora of X (with some kind of commitment from Quallcom) would have been great. i have heard good things about the aging beta but still hesitate to switch... microsoft seems to be the runner up (the office package) but damn, i really dont trust (or want) all my email in a MS format, but we can assume that the MS will continue to develop email clients... netscape is a great option (not as robust as the others) but can we really expect to see netscape continue to develop extensive email tools?

so until the transition to x is complete: photoshop final, flash final, AIM client with file transfer... i'll keep eudora classic, then if nothing really becomes available i will switch to Microsoft Entourage for X *gulp*...

[kidtexas]

I hear your wiretap... I guess I am going to continue to use Eudora for X until it doesn't work anymore. Just because it isn't supported doesn't mean it can't beat the pants off of everybody else. It's simple, powerful, and I really like the interface. And I find out more about it everyday. Entourage seemed to be a bit bloated. Maybe by the time Eudora no longer runs on my computer, Mail will be better, or I will just go to pine.

[ndptal85]

Hold up just a minute. This was just a posting to versiontracker. The company hasn't confirmed anything. How about you wait for Qualcomm to say its over before you say its over? (^_^)

[kidtexas]

Yeah, I know Qualcomm hasn't officially said anything. I have personally written them several times, and they never reply. I am worried because all the other companies I have written usually reply, and the beta hasn't been updated in 6 months.

[chris v]

We need to bombard Qualcomm with requests to continue OS X support. I just fired off an email to technical support.

Also, I suppose registering the beta might help them to see how many people are actually using the client under OS X.

I will not submit to Microsoft.

CV

[Brit Ben]

Originally posted by wiretap:
<STRONG>according to a message on version tracker, Qualcomm has halted the development of Eudora for X... (user apparently herd this straight from Qualcomm)...
</STRONG>

GAG !

I hope not. I'm one of the 'few of us' with many reasons to not use Entourage or mail.crapp

At least b16 will never expire.

Ben.

[escher]

I received the following short reply from a Qualcomm customer rep on 12/4/01:

We are sorry but we still do not have a release date at this time. The developers are still working on it.

This leads me to believe that patience will ultimately be rewarded with a final Eudora for OS X.

I will not trust my e-mail to an MS app. I've worked on my Eudora filters for years and have absolutely no desire to convert them or my mailboxes. So let's not jump to (depressing) conclusions!

Escher

[ 12-15-2001: Message edited by: escher ]

[Chris_G]

I would agree with escher... there are a few topics over at the Macfixit forums that suggest their interactions with Qualcomm suggest Eudora for OS X is moving along, and there are known issues with the b16 version that they are working on.

Cheers!
Chris

[Adam Silver]

I wouldn't be too sure about that. Remember Eudora Planner? For months no one was working on it but it was still considered "in development". Fortunately, Power On Software came to the rescue and we have Now Up-to-Date & Contact.

Even though I don't use it, I think it would be a shame if Eudora were never released for Mac OS X.

[ervier]

I mailed Qualcomm and this is what they said:

Hello,

Development has not stopped on Eudora 5.1 beta for OS X. There were a lot of changes released with OS 10.1. Keep an eye on our website for a future update. We are currently working on it. Thanks for your continued patience.

[brachiator]

Originally posted by ervier:
<STRONG>I mailed Qualcomm and this is what they said:

</STRONG>

Hmm... I *dreamed* that I emailed Eudora, and this was the dream reply:

" Hello --

Development has stopped on Eudora 5.1 beta for OS X. There was a lot of promise that the Eudora unit might remain profitable while the M$ antitrust action was pending, given Judge Jackson's findings of fact and the likelihood that the Justice Dept. would seek and obtain real relief and real solutions to the M$ monopoly.

We kept working on the beta in this hope, even after the case was reassigned to a new judge, and even after Bush II took control of the White House. Believing, as we had been told, that the Bush people were "pro-business" in an even-handed manner, we didn't think to increase our level of lobbying, monetary contributions, and influence-seeking to the level of M$ and Bill Gates. We have certainly come to regret that decision now that the Justice Dept. has effectively become an arm of Microsoft's marketing department. We are also sorry that we did not pursue opportunities to diversify into the oil and gas industries, as we now understand that would have increased our chances to receive largess from the federal fisc.

Keep an eye on our website for a future update. We are currently working on our corporate strategy to re-elect Gore (or, ideally a more worthwhile candidate) in 2004, as part of our overall effort to challenge M$ and restore some semblance of a market and competition to the computer sector. Thanks for your continued patience, and rest assured that we have no more desire than do you to see your years of archived emails sucked into the proprietary blackhole of the M$ Entourage database.

The Eudora OSX Development Team."

... and then I woke up.

[Adam Silver]

You shouldn't blame Microsoft for all of Eudora's problems. Apple and Netscape deserve just as much blame.

It's awfully hard to sell a full-featured email app when Apple, Netscape, and Microsoft give them away for free. Yes, Qualcomm eventually began giving away Eudora for free (with advertising) but it was long after Microsoft and Netscape had eaten away at Eudora's market share.

[brachiator]

Originally posted by Adam Silver:
<STRONG>You shouldn't blame Microsoft for all of Eudora's problems. Apple and Netscape deserve just as much blame.

It's awfully hard to sell a full-featured email app when Apple, Netscape, and Microsoft give them away for free. Yes, Qualcomm eventually began giving away Eudora for free (with advertising) but it was long after Microsoft and Netscape had eaten away at Eudora's market share.</STRONG>

Yes, this is true. But it is such good, blood-boiling fun to blame the DOJ and M$.

i'd be less critical if it were open source apps eating away... say Mozilla, rather than Netscape.

For that matter, Apple itself is undermining Eudora by bundling Mail with OSX... isn't that one of M$'s sins? ;-)

[brachiator]

Say, does anyone know what format the Mail mailboxes are in?

I know Netscrape used to use basically text files with some sort of tagging -- I could open them up and read them in Word... I assume that Eudora has a text format too?

But I tried to open a Mail inbox in BBEdit (and every other text editor I have) to no avail. BB returns an Apple Event error (MacOS error no 10000)

[kidtexas]

Mail uses mbox format, just like pine, netscape, and eudora. Mail's mbox files have unix line endings like pine, while eudora (don't know about netscape) has mac line endings. A simple conversion makes them interchangable (in BBEdit, etc.). The key with Mail's mbox files is that the actual file is buried in a package. The actual file that you see is just a folder. Control-click open them (or navigate using the Terminal, BBEdit's hidden file open function, etc.) and you will find that they contain a file "Mailbox.mbox" where "Mailbox" is the name of your mailbox.

[brachiator]

Originally posted by kidtexas:
<STRONG>Mail uses mbox format, just like pine, netscape, and eudora. Mail's mbox files have unix line endings like pine, while eudora (don't know about netscape) has mac line endings. A simple conversion makes them interchangable (in BBEdit, etc.). The key with Mail's mbox files is that the actual file is buried in a package. The actual file that you see is just a folder. Control-click open them (or navigate using the Terminal, BBEdit's hidden file open function, etc.) and you will find that they contain a file "Mailbox.mbox" where "Mailbox" is the name of your mailbox.</STRONG>

It's all so clear to me now! ;-) You'd think that by now I would have remembered the whole file-is-really-a-package thing, but I forgot and neve even control-clicked the file in the finder..

here's something I wasn't expecting, though, because I have never opened IMAP mailboxes in a text browser, only POP mailboxes. The IMAP format seems to be a file with theh "mbox" part first, before the dot, and the actual messages themselves are in a folder called Cached Messages, *individually*...

anyway, thanks, kidtexas!

[dtc]

For what its worth, Eudora doesn't always create true MBOX files. A lot of times, Eudora mangles messages so that they are no longer truly MIME compliant.

Originally posted by kidtexas:
<STRONG>Mail uses mbox format, just like pine, netscape, and eudora. Mail's mbox files have unix line endings like pine, while eudora (don't know about netscape) has mac line endings. A simple conversion makes them interchangable (in BBEdit, etc.). The key with Mail's mbox files is that the actual file is buried in a package. The actual file that you see is just a folder. Control-click open them (or navigate using the Terminal, BBEdit's hidden file open function, etc.) and you will find that they contain a file "Mailbox.mbox" where "Mailbox" is the name of your mailbox.</STRONG>

[dtc]

Originally posted by kidtexas:
[QBMore importantly, I don't like the preview view (I really like double clicking on an email and having it open in its own window) and even though Entourage could do this, I didn't like how much space a single email took up on the screen.
[/QB]

You know you can turn off the preview pane in Entourage....

[dtc]

Originally posted by wiretap:
<STRONG>microsoft seems to be the runner up (the office package) but damn, i really dont trust (or want) all my email in a MS format, but we can assume that the MS will continue to develop email clients... netscape is a great option (not as robust as the others) but can we really expect to see netscape continue to develop extensive email tools?
</STRONG>

In Entourage, if you drag a folder of Mail from its Window to the desktop, it creates a true MBOX file.

That's how I archive my mail.

[brachiator]

Well, I am mostly happy with Mail, and don't see much use myself for Entourage, other than that the Calendar is pretty good, and both Organizer and Now just don't feel right to me (long and irrelevant explanation).

My big question now is in what format the apple Address Book stores its data ? I don't like the idea of building up a database of contacts that *I can't f-ing export*! (Really poor design on Apple's part, at best; and at worst intended to sucker th newbie into being unable to migrate to another app... damn bundling M$ wanna-be apple! ;-)

any clues on format, or how to write an export script, utility? I know that you can drag and drop contacts from Address Book to Entourage, but dunno about any other apps (except Mozilla. answer: no.)

Mike

[rcr]

I really wish we could get some straight info. I phoned tech support in late November and someone named Michael told me without a second's hesitation that active development was taking place and that a full release could be expected within a month or two. Today on comp.mail.eudora.mac, a couple people are reporting that they have spoken to both sales and support folks at Qualcomm who have stated that development has ceased (at least for the time being). Hey PowerOn Software: feel like purchasing the codebase for a formerly great mail client?


rcr

[chris v]

Hot off the presses!

I got home to 2 messages from Eudora support in my inbox tonight. (I'd given up hearing back from them after 4 days)

Message 1: (2:35 PM)

From: Stanley Choi &lt;******@qualcomm.com&gt;
Subject: Re: Eudora 5.x for Mac OS; Tech Support Question

Eudora is now part of QUALCOMM Internet Services, the division at QUALCOMM responsible for the BREW wireless applications platform. Development of a wireless applications business based on the BREW platform is now our primary area of focus. Long-term plans for the Eudora desktop email clients are being evaluated. No final decision has been made yet. I'm sorry I can't give you a more detailed answer at this time. We do hope to be able to discuss our plans for Eudora more specifically early next year.

Message 2(5:41 PM)

From: Stanley Choi &lt;******@qualcomm.com&gt;
Subject: Re: Eudora 5.x for Mac OS; Tech Support Question

Some new info just came in!

"We are happy to announce that we will be resuming the OS X effort immediately, and that we intend to have a final version of Eudora for OS X sometime early in 2002.

Thank you for all your patience, and many apologies for the long delay."

Message 2 sounds like they passed on the official word to tech support, and that he's just forwarding the official version. Note the quotes in his second message.

This is the best news I've had on the OS X front in some days.

CV

I believe that there is still only one programmer working on the Mac version of Eudora, that being Steve Dorner, the original creator of Eudora. If that is still the case, it might take a looooong time to finish Eudora for OS X.

[Metro]

I really hope that Qualcomm does not give up on Eudora for Mac OS X. I have purchased numerous copies for myself and others for years (7 years or so) and would have no problem paying for a OS X version. As would all the people I turned on to Eudora for Mac.

While mail.app (and the others) are average at best, Eudora is the ruler! Come on Qualcomm, keep Eudora going for OS X!

[chris v]

It might also nudge them along if everyone would register their Betas. I forgot to do that until I wanted tech support. There's over 30,000 downloads from versiontracker, but if people are using lite or sponsored mode, Qualcomm might not know you exist.

Show 'em that they've got a customer base.

CV

[BZ]

Eudora was one of the very first products out there that was carbonized and it would be a great shame if they abandoned ship now. They have a very good product and just need to fix a few bugs to make it a full release.

Lets hope that if they decide to dump it that they sell the code (or give) it to OmniGroup! It would be great to see OmniGroup Cocoa Eudora.

BZ

[Metro]

It's coming!

Just saw MacCentral article and Qualcomm said it will be out first part of 2002!

[Since EBCDIC]

I'm not saying that the previous posts are untrue, but commenting on the strange circumstances that such a note has not first been passed on to the Eudora alpha-testers, who have recently gotten email from Steve Dorner.

Rumors of Eudora's demise were dissapointing, rumors of its resurrection are exciting, rumors of an imminent release are thrilling.

[benh57]

Please, everyone who knows Steve's email address email him and beg him to support OS X services in Eudora!

It really is very easy - once you implement carbon events, that is.

[zos]

Combing through comp.mail.eudora.mac postings I came across this message that was quoted in a post from 12/19/01:

&gt; Many people have noticed that new betas of the OS X version of Eudora
&gt; have not been coming at exactly breakneck speed.
&gt;
&gt; I'm happy to announce that we will be resuming the OS X effort
&gt; immediately, and that we intend to have a final version of Eudora for OS
&gt; X sometime early in 2002.
&gt;
&gt; Thank you for all your patience, and many apologies for the long delay.
&gt; --
&gt; Steve Dorner
&gt; Vice President, Technology
&gt; QUALCOMM Incorporated

I'd hate to have to transition to yet another email client. I did it after Claris Emailer was orphaned and now I've gotten used to Eudora.

[Hobbes]

Although work on Eudora has resumed this time, what about the next time? The bottom line is... Qualcomm is not a software company. If they were, and if Eudora represented anything more than a fraction of their income, there would never have been a question concerning whether or not to continue development.

This time Eudora users were lucky. But will we be the next time this question comes up? There's a lot to be said for using an e-mail client made by a company whose main business is Mac software.

That's why I ended up switching to PowerMail after this whole episode. Because PowerMail is CTM's main program, I know they'll be more committed to it than Qualcomm will ever be to Eudora, or even Apple to Mail.

[ervier]

Originally posted by Hobbes:
<STRONG>Although work on Eudora has resumed this time, what about the next time? The bottom line is... Qualcomm is not a software company. If they were, and if Eudora represented anything more than a fraction of their income, there would never have been a question concerning whether or not to continue development.
</STRONG>

If they stop with development they will probably give it to the Open Source community, or maybe Opera might take over development. They already support eachother with ads!

[zorn]

while i myself am prob moving on cause of it all (going to try Entouge) I'd figure I'd give everyone some facts

From MacMinute:
Eudora for Mac OS X arriving early next year
December 20 - 10:12 ET: Qualcomm plans to released a Mac OS X version of its Eudora email client in early 2002, according to MacCentral. The company had released beta versions of the OS X client earlier this year, but further development had come to a stand still until recently.

The author of the MacCentral article, Peter, is a avid member of the MacShow LIVE cvommunity and the weeks previous to the article the community was talking about email alot, spured by the choice of our fearless host to switch to Entourge after using eudora for years...

Mike