[Aluminum]

any here that has gone through a degree program or just done work on their own and compiled a portfolio, what do most graphic firms look for? I am interested in the field and have been learning photoshop and illustrator as of late. Any comments and thoughts would be helpful. I am trying to decided if I should go to school for another 3 years and get a graphic design degree or just work on my own.

[Mafia]

Originally posted by Aluminum:
any here that has gone through a degree program or just done work on their own and compiled a portfolio, what do most graphic firms look for? I am interested in the field and have been learning photoshop and illustrator as of late. Any comments and thoughts would be helpful. I am trying to decided if I should go to school for another 3 years and get a graphic design degree or just work on my own.

if you want to get a job with an advertising firm or something of the sort. they often look at education and your profile. but if you are doing freelance. businesses will probably be more concerned with your work then what you did in school.

[art_director]

ultimately any ad agency or design shop will look at your book first and foremost.

what have you done?
how good are you?
what media have you worked in?

a degree is not a must have in the field. i could list a number of very successful creatives working for and running some of the biggest agencies and accounts in the world.

that said i would strongly urge you to get an education. there is no substitute for learning. also, the experience will serve you well through out your days.

iow, go to school.

[hardcat1970]

i was working in an advertising agency for seven years. And i don't have a B.A. degree, although i studied graphic arts in college. I do think you need a degree to advance into an upper management position unless you want to be a designer for all your life.

[Randman]

C'mon, all the posts here with such poor spelling and grammar are giving graphic designers a bad name.

My suggestion is if you have any chops, and be realistic about your ability or lack of ability, then try and put a portfolio together. Then run it by an agency or a professional designer for a critique. Maybe you could do some free-lance work (if your stuff is good or has potential) and go from there.
If not, consider the school route and learn the basics and details of the trade while bulking up your portfolio.
Also, enter as many design competitions as you can. And if you're serious about this, don't be discouraged by harsh comments and getting your butt kicked in competitions. Learn from these and work to minimize your weaknesses and maximize your strengths.
And don't forget that it is a very crowded and competitive field.

[benandkelley]

All of the previous suggestions are great. I would also recommend that you get involved with a local group of graphic artists. Start building a network of connections. After you've done some freelance work on the side, ask your friends if they could put you in touch with their managers for some advice. Approach the managers in a way that you are simply inquiring about what they think of your work and how they would recommend that you proceed with marketing yourself. This is a very subtle way to finding a job. You aren't putting the managers on the spot and saying "offer me a job" but rather saying "how would you recommend I proceed?" If they like your work then they'll keep you in mind if a job opens up, or they may refer you to their friend for a job interview.

Good luck.

-Ben

[art_director]

Originally posted by Randman:
C'mon, all the posts here with such poor spelling and grammar are giving graphic designers a bad name.

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=freelance

sorry, couldn't resist. :�>

[art_director]

Originally posted by Randman:
[B]free-lance/B]

[Aluminum]

I will have a B.A. actually in Psychology after this semester, however I have always been interested in graphic design and was thinking about getting another degree, but have hesitated because of many people telling me it could be a waste of time and money for me, and that I would be better off learning programs on my own and building a portfolio. I very much appreciate the opinions you have shed with me so far, I guess I should just start logging some time into photoshop and illustrator and see what I can come up with.

[Randman]

Dictionary allows it hyphenated and many newspaper style guides follow this. So, it's not incorrect (double negative) to write it as so.

[art_director]

Originally posted by Randman:
Dictionary allows it hyphenated and many newspaper style guides follow this. So, it's not incorrect (double negative) to write it as so.

ooop, you're right since it was in reference to work. you right goodly.

:�>

[siMac]

Originally posted by Randman:
C'mon, all the posts here with such poor spelling and grammar are giving graphic designers a bad name.

A little harsh, no? The overall standard of spelling and grammar is higher in this forum than some others I could mention.

[Randman]

First 4 posts all started out with lower-case letters. Yes, there are posts that are far worse from supposedly native English speakers, but that still doesn't make it right. Besides, my view is if someone is asking about a profession, then one should try and write as correctly as possible.

[siMac]

Originally posted by Randman:
First 4 posts all started out with lower-case letters. Yes, there are posts that are far worse from supposedly native English speakers, but that still doesn't make it right. Besides, my view is if someone is asking about a profession, then one should try and write as correctly as possible.

Read up on your graphic design history. There are many who argue the redundancy of capital letters.

Try Googling for the 'Bauhaus' and 'Modernists'. Dropping capital letters in design isn't a new trend - in fact it's almost to be expected much of the time these days.

I don't think that the posts in question were 'giving graphic designers a bad name', maybe they were rather subtly showing their influences or referencing historical techniques?

Now, the posts with speeling mestakes, and bad grammar. there you has a point,

[Randman]

I doubt any budding ee milnes or kd langs were posting here.

[siMac]

Heh heh, there you also have a point.

[Randman]

[art_director]

i'll take my posts lower case, thankyouverymuch.

[kyles_mac]

I am currently a student learning Graphic Design. Most importantly our teachers have told us to have a great portfolio.

Basically, how your grades are is secondary. Your portfolio may be excellent, but grade-wise you aren't up to par. Companies will focus on the work.

Also, have a variety of work. Just don't have five pieces using the same fonts, the same layout idea, etc. Show that you can work with different things. Show that you can even work with different mediums.

Have different types of work. Have an ad, brochure, page layout, etc. Companies will want to know that you are a flexible worker and can work with many different things.

Hope this helps.

[birdman]

I'm in agreement with all that's been said. "What do most graphic firms look for?" Experience. Or more to the point, a portfolio that looks like you have experience. Creativity and great presentation (sharp, clean corners on the paper and all that) can go a long way. Even if a company wants their advertisement/flyer/postcard/whatever to look "traditional" or "established," it still needs to have something fresh about it to make it stand out from all the other tired and been-there-done-that designs. A variety of media and style also makes your portfolio interesting and shows that you're versitile and flexible.

That being said, schoolin' is great for people like me who need some coaching. Depending on the school you go to, they may be more technically or artistically oriented (trade school vs. art school). My college had graphic design classes, but also required other art classes to complete the degree. This helps you develop your creative side and think like an artist. In my admittedly limited experience here at this graphic design job, it seems the "out of the box" ideas are great to get the juices flowing, then they get pared down and reeled in toward a more acceptable design -- that leads to the "traditional but fresh" thing I'm talking about.

As others suggested, it might be good to get some freelance gigs in your area, both to build up your portfolio and learn a bit on your own by reading books or simple trial and error. I personally took the safe route of going to school first, and the freelancing after.

-birdman

[mitchell_pgh]

Another good way to get some experience is to simply DO projects for people for free. I know this goes against the "you are working... you should get paid" mentality, but it worked well for me. I worked on a newsletter and some brochures along with a web site. In the end I had some nice examples to show my first employer.

Education isn't the end all be all... but without an college degree, you won't have the opportunities some others have. It just means you may have to work harder to get your "chance".

In the end, it's all about end product and attitude. I've seen jerks sell crap and make tons... I've seen amazing designers let clients walk all over them...

[Thorzdad]

Personally, in the 20-odd years I've been a designer, I think I've been asked twice if I had a degree. As it has been pointed out, it all comes down to your book. That said, a college education will expose you to so many influences and possibilities. Plus it affords you the time to hone skills and get your craft down.

If you can swing it, I would pick the best design school I could afford and get in. In the end, it can only make you a better artist.

[York911]

Learn Acrobat and how to export a proper pdf.

Being a graphic designer these days means learning more than just Photoshop and Illustrator, you should become intimately familiar with the pdf workflow.

[mitchell_pgh]

Originally posted by Thorzdad:
Personally, in the 20-odd years I've been a designer, I think I've been asked twice if I had a degree. As it has been pointed out, it all comes down to your book. That said, a college education will expose you to so many influences and possibilities. Plus it affords you the time to hone skills and get your craft down.

If you can swing it, I would pick the best design school I could afford and get in. In the end, it can only make you a better artist.

The place I work now requires a BS/BA degree. They don't care if it's chemical engineering or gym... but it's a requirement. I realize it's not fair... and I also recognize that my company isn't the norm, but it's a growing trend.

[andi*pandi]

Having a degree gives you more credibility that you know more than just how to make a pretty picture in Photoshop. There might be a chance you also know how to get it printed correctly, what formats to save in, how to tell the printer you want it folded, and how to select paper. You will learn the reason for all those features in InDesign (kerning, leading, etc) and have some awareness of design history, which will let you rip it off all the better.

[benandkelley]

In addition to all of the reasons already mentioned, a college degree will get you a higher paycheck. Many companies will give you a higher salary simply based on that degree paper that you received...regardless of the major or minor that you did.

[art_director]

Originally posted by benandkelley:
In addition to all of the reasons already mentioned, a college degree will get you a higher paycheck. Many companies will give you a higher salary simply based on that degree paper that you received...regardless of the major or minor that you did.

Perhaps someone should call Wieden and Kennedy to tell them that one of their most respected creative directors on the Nike account should have her paychecks cut for not having a degree.

Jokes aside I respectfully disagree with benandkelley's paycheck post. It's a non-factor. At the end of the day prospective employers will pay you on your work and value rather than on a degree. That is a fact.

Again, I would NEVER downplay the value of an education but I know of several high-paid creatives with international reputations for good work who never finished college. Heck, I even know a few that never set foot in a college / university.

BTW, the mention of a W&K creative director without a degree is true. She* told me herself. And, I can honetly say, that most any person who visits this forum would kill for the opportunity to do the kind of work she does every day on Nike (print, TV, etc.).


*Please don't ask who she is. I'm going to respect her privacy.

[KeriVit]

go to school- learn stuff. I thought I knew alot b4 college.

If I received 2 resumes and one had a degree and the other worked at a store, I'd trash one- guess which one....

Freelance? well hey- no one asks for a degree there. But you must be a savvy business mind and highly motivated to succeed.

[Randman]

While I agree that one could make it without a degree, one had better be a champ (and not just think they are, but having people who aren't relatives tell them that).
Experience is the key. Just bust your a$$, learn the trade and prepare to work your way up the food chain.

[mitchell_pgh]

Originally posted by art_director:
Perhaps someone should call Wieden and Kennedy to tell them that one of their most respected creative directors on the Nike account should have her paychecks cut for not having a degree.

There are always exceptions to the rule... but I would argue that if I didn't have a degree, I wouldn't have the job I have now. My company requires a college degree for my grade level. If I didn't, I would make at least $5,000 less.

Sure there are people out there will crazy skills that don't need college, but there are probably more OK graphic artists that don't have crazy skills and need every edge they can get. Some of the best artists I've seen sucked in their 20's, and ended becoming a great artist by their mid to late 30's.

Some people are great day 1.

[art_director]

Originally posted by mitchell_pgh:
There are always exceptions to the rule... but I would argue that if I didn't have a degree, I wouldn't have the job I have now. My company requires a college degree for my grade level. If I didn't, I would make at least $5,000 less.

Sure there are people out there will crazy skills that don't need college, but there are probably more OK graphic artists that don't have crazy skills and need every edge they can get. Some of the best artists I've seen sucked in their 20's, and ended becoming a great artist by their mid to late 30's.

Some people are great day 1.

My point exactly.

[iomatic]

Agreed-- that's why they're exceptions, not the rule, and hence your chances of succeeding without knowledge point to failure.

By the way, you're not referring to that hack who breezed her way through the Portland Creative Conference like she could care less, do you? Most CDs don't actually *do* the work, or even concept. They usually play "I Get Credit For That" in big agencies.

Originally posted by mitchell_pgh:
There are always exceptions to the rule... but I would argue that if I didn't have a degree, I wouldn't have the job I have now. My company requires a college degree for my grade level. If I didn't, I would make at least $5,000 less.

Sure there are people out there will crazy skills that don't need college, but there are probably more OK graphic artists that don't have crazy skills and need every edge they can get. Some of the best artists I've seen sucked in their 20's, and ended becoming a great artist by their mid to late 30's.

Some people are great day 1.

[atomic101]

The best way to proceed is to get into the most highly respected degree course in your area AND do some freelance work as well - the degree will give you a confidence, an independance of mind and a credibility with quality employers.

Freelance small jobs (that you charge something for) will give you some money to help with all the costs of your education AND show you how it all works in the real world.

In this way you will have a head start when you do leave college and because the work is only a sideline you won't feel under as much pressure as you will with your first real job after college. It will also help defray some costs.


(As regards Caps and their absence - the Bauhaus experiments of the early 20th century should be seen in the context of the German language which uses capital letters much more intensively than the English language. I am against all lowercase letters in English - they aid legibility and have grammatical purpose. Bad and student graphic designers often use the all lowercase as a lazy stylistic device - one that is horribly cliched and old hat. - End of rant ;-)

[art_director]

Originally posted by iomatic:
Agreed-- that's why they're exceptions, not the rule, and hence your chances of succeeding without knowledge point to failure.

By the way, you're not referring to that hack who breezed her way through the Portland Creative Conference like she could care less, do you? Most CDs don't actually *do* the work, or even concept. They usually play "I Get Credit For That" in big agencies.

no, i'm not referring to whomever you're talking about. i'm referring to one of their CDs who has been with the company for decades. she is considered among the best in the ad business.

as for the ad schools, well, i think they're a joke.

[art_director]

Originally posted by atomic101:
The best way to proceed is to get into the most highly respected degree course in your area AND do some freelance work as well - the degree will give you a confidence, an independance of mind and a credibility with quality employers.

Freelance small jobs (that you charge something for) will give you some money to help with all the costs of your education AND show you how it all works in the real world.

In this way you will have a head start when you do leave college and because the work is only a sideline you won't feel under as much pressure as you will with your first real job after college. It will also help defray some costs.


(As regards Caps and their absence - the Bauhaus experiments of the early 20th century should be seen in the context of the German language which uses capital letters much more intensively than the English language. I am against all lowercase letters in English - they aid legibility and have grammatical purpose. Bad and student graphic designers often use the all lowercase as a lazy stylistic device - one that is horribly cliched and old hat. - End of rant ;-)

credibility with employers comes from the book, my friend. sure, a degree is a wise thing to have but it's not at the top of the list when hiring.

i've been in the hiring creatives seat and i can tell you that a bad book with a degree from a good school (ie. adcenter) won't get a person hired if there's a candidate with a stellar book and no degree. why? because when my clients said, "hey, this work is ****." i can't hide behind, "well, he / she had a degree." additionally, as a cd, i NEVER had time to hand hold junior creatives. sorry, just a reality of the business.

RULE: make your book GREAT. spend time on the concepts and the design. a smart presentation is good to have but don't spend 50 hours on the packaging for your book and 10 hours on the contents. i would prefer to see an amazing portfolio delivered in an old brown paper than an average book in a beautiful, custom made portfolio case.

the upper / lower case debate is better suited for another thread.

[oldartist]

....And don't bother applying for any jobs, if you're over 50. Evidently art is only for those "youngens," regardless of experience brought to the job interview. What interview? Who gets interviews when you end up submitting r�sum�s via e-mail?

Oldartist

[flypenfly]

Bill Gates also dropped out of Harvard without a degree. This doesn't mean a Harvard degree won't take you plaecs. But in general unless you're the bright star of exceptionality with the confidence to boot... well if you were that you probably wouldn't be asking here.