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Leopard: the killer feature
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Clive
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Jun 20, 2007, 06:31 AM
 
I know you’re all over-awed with Leopard, but Think Secret just posted a gallery of screen shots, and I’ve spotted the top secret killer feature: ‘supersize me’ window shadows:

Leopard 9A466 Gallery | Picture13.jpg

Look at that shadow around the Calculator, isn’t is a beauty?

Apart from that, don’t you wish that someone would reinstate the ‘Find’ features from 10.3?
     
JonoMarshall
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Jun 20, 2007, 07:03 AM
 
Oooooh, it gets me all tingly, but perhaps not in a good way...
     
SomeToast
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Jun 22, 2007, 01:19 AM
 
Originally Posted by Clive View Post
I know you’re all over-awed with Leopard, but Think Secret just posted a gallery of screen shots, and I’ve spotted the top secret killer feature: ‘supersize me’ window shadows:

Leopard 9A466 Gallery | Picture13.jpg

Look at that shadow around the Calculator, isn’t is a beauty??
The active window gets that black glow (I don't think it can be classified as an actual shadow anymore). Inactive windows look the same as they do now.

So when you activate a window, it's shadow expands ~600% in the blink of an eye while the previously active window is doing the opposite. Epileptics should refrain from switching between windows too rapidly.
     
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Jun 22, 2007, 01:28 AM
 
Originally Posted by SomeToast View Post
black glow
Isn't that contradiction in terms?
     
Chuckit
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Jun 22, 2007, 01:29 AM
 
Originally Posted by Clive View Post
Apart from that, don’t you wish that someone would reinstate the ‘Find’ features from 10.3?
What?
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SomeToast
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Jun 22, 2007, 04:34 AM
 
Originally Posted by TETENAL View Post
Isn't that contradiction in terms?
It uses a black light.  

     
bowwowman
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Jun 22, 2007, 04:35 AM
 
not a shadow.......
an aura

from wiki:

"an aura is a subtle field of luminous multicolored radiation surrounding a person or object as a cocoon or halo"

cloned from the RDF, only now it's in your applications
Personally I find it hilarious that you have the hots for my gramma. Especially seeins how she is 3x your age, and makes your Brittney-Spears-wannabe 30-something wife look like a rag doll who went thru WWIII with a burning stick of dynamite up her a** :)
     
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Jun 22, 2007, 06:51 AM
 
It's a bit distracting at first, but boy does it give the illusion of real depth!

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analogika
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Jun 22, 2007, 09:37 AM
 
It also serves to put the active window into better focus.

I like it a lot, and I think it will be very helpful to all the newbies who have trouble differentiating between active and inactive windows.
     
roller
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Jun 22, 2007, 09:44 AM
 
It looks good to me, and erik is right... the calculator looks as if it is hovering!
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dru
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Jun 22, 2007, 10:23 AM
 
Originally Posted by Chuckit View Post
What?
The OP wants to nuke Spotlight's integration with the Finder and return to the sanity that was Panther's Find... functionality.

I try to avoid Spotlight as much as possible.
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Jun 22, 2007, 10:30 AM
 
I'd rather have Spotlight working properly instead of going back to searching filenames only.
     
Chuckit
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Jun 22, 2007, 10:33 AM
 
Originally Posted by dru View Post
The OP wants to nuke Spotlight's integration with the Finder and return to the sanity that was Panther's Find... functionality.

I try to avoid Spotlight as much as possible.
What functionality did 10.3's search offer that 10.5's does not?
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bballe336
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Jun 22, 2007, 11:05 AM
 
Gross. The calculator looks like it's going to float away.
     
roller
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Jun 22, 2007, 11:09 AM
 
Apple f in the Finder will invoke the old find command; honestly, it offers a lot of features not found in spotlight (to my knowledge).
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Chuckit
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Jun 22, 2007, 11:39 AM
 
Originally Posted by roller View Post
Apple f in the Finder will invoke the old find command; honestly, it offers a lot of features not found in spotlight (to my knowledge).
Nope, still uses Spotlight.
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Clive  (op)
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Jun 22, 2007, 04:57 PM
 
Originally Posted by Chuckit View Post
What functionality did 10.3's search offer that 10.5's does not?
Well, for a start it was easier to set which drives you were searching. By default the search was for a file/folder name (not combined with content) and it didn't start searching until you clicked the button.

I don't know about you, but it drives me nuts when spotlight starts searching for "h, he, hel, hell, hello…". It's not like some kind of autofill/auto-complete function where you want the computer to guess what you may type.

Also, the sort features in the found list actually worked properly (as a Finder window would), rather than the Mickey Mouse method of changing the window "view" settings. Have you ever tried sorting by date - what on earth is it supposed to be doing!?
     
Chuckit
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Jun 22, 2007, 05:04 PM
 
Originally Posted by Clive View Post
Well, for a start it was easier to set which drives you were searching.
A bit, but not that much easier. Before, you clicked checkboxes. Now, in the slowest case, you click a button and click checkboxes.

Originally Posted by Clive View Post
By default the search was for a file/folder name (not combined with content)
Eh, I guess. This is really a matter of preference.

Originally Posted by Clive View Post
I don't know about you, but it drives me nuts when spotlight starts searching for "h, he, hel, hell, hello…". It's not like some kind of autofill/auto-complete function where you want the computer to guess what you may type.
Why not? In the worst case, it doesn't help. In the best case, it finds your stuff that much sooner. I can't think of a reason why delayed feedback would ever be preferable to instant feedback.
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Clive  (op)
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Jun 22, 2007, 05:34 PM
 
Originally Posted by Chuckit View Post
A bit, but not that much easier. Before, you clicked checkboxes. Now, in the slowest case, you click a button and click checkboxes.
I think there's a significant difference, from an interface point of view, you see the list of ticked boxes in 10.3, in 10.4 you just see "2 places". It's a more interactive and controllable experience.


Eh, I guess. This is really a matter of preference.
I suppose it depends what you're looking for. For me I'm usually looking for a file/folder name. Looking for content would usually be a last resort in a Finder context.


Why not? In the worst case, it doesn't help. In the best case, it finds your stuff that much sooner. I can't think of a reason why delayed feedback would ever be preferable to instant feedback.
Well, the reason "why not" is that you'll get "instant feedback" as soon as you've finished typing and you hit "find". All that's happening when it is searching for "h, he, hel, hell, hello" is probably delaying the result - because the computer is using up resources trying to find stuff that I don't want or need instead of logging my keystrokes. Maybe it's only a few seconds, but it makes a difference in a usability context.
     
Clive  (op)
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Jun 22, 2007, 05:38 PM
 
Here's a couple of examples, easier to use "find" dialogue:



And a lot easier to use and *better* results which are easily sortable, in the same way a Finder window is sortable:



Note also the path to the file is clearly displayed, you don't have to hover over things to try to work out where it is.
     
Chuckit
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Jun 22, 2007, 05:40 PM
 
Originally Posted by Clive View Post
Well, the reason "why not" is that you'll get "instant feedback" as soon as you've finished typing and you hit "find". All that's happening when it is searching for "h, he, hel, hell, hello" is probably delaying the result - because the computer is using up resources trying to find stuff that I don't want or need instead of logging my keystrokes. Maybe it's only a few seconds, but it makes a difference in a usability context.
No delay whatsoever in Leopard, by all accounts I've heard. Otherwise, I see your point, although the sorting one is the only one I see as any big darn.
( Last edited by Chuckit; Jun 22, 2007 at 08:35 PM. )
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Jun 22, 2007, 08:31 PM
 
Originally Posted by Clive View Post
Here's a couple of examples, easier to use "find" dialogue:

And a lot easier to use and *better* results which are easily sortable, in the same way a Finder window is sortable:

Note also the path to the file is clearly displayed, you don't have to hover over things to try to work out where it is.
Tiger:


Easier to use "find" dialog to select specific places: ✓
Search results easily sortable in the same way a Finder window is sortable: ✓
Path clearly displayed without having to hover over things: ✓

You don't have a point.
     
besson3c
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Jun 22, 2007, 09:37 PM
 
Clive: are you familiar with the Unix "find" command? Looks like exactly what you are looking for..
     
MattJeff
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Jun 22, 2007, 10:03 PM
 
it looks the same(shadow)
     
besson3c
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Jun 22, 2007, 10:06 PM
 
Clive: do you really think a shadow is a killer feature, or were you speaking tongue-in-cheek?
     
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Jun 22, 2007, 10:08 PM
 
Talking about shadows, there doesn't seem to be a "universal light source" in Leopard. If you put your dock on the side, the shadow falls from the left if you have it on the right, to the right if it's on the left. All the while the windows still have their 90° shadows :/

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Jun 22, 2007, 10:35 PM
 
Oh, additionally the icons on the desktop are as stupidly non-dock aware as ever. It's even amplified with the reflection

http://www.erikveland.com/arkiv/imag...stupiddock.png

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Jun 22, 2007, 11:33 PM
 
Originally Posted by - - e r i k - - View Post
Oh, additionally the icons on the desktop are as stupidly non-dock aware as ever. It's even amplified with the reflection

http://www.erikveland.com/arkiv/imag...stupiddock.png
Uugh. Someone should notice that before October. I hope.

And I'm not feeling the reflected Desktop icons, or those drop shadows on the icons in the Dock? Maybe there will be a way to "not reflect" the Desktop or its contents (including the picture), and reflect windows only?

But those drop shadows on the Dock icons, man.... Now there's, what, two, three "light sources"? (The Dock's lighting, the icons' lighting and shadow already in the bitmap, and the drop shadow on the Dock?) I think the icons work good by themselves, and they're supposed to—they have their own lighting, and they're supposed to blend in with the OS and communicate their visual metaphors, not just be "pics" on a shiny plate there. The reflection I like—the drop shadow I don't. Maybe it'll grow on me, but initial reaction not good.
     
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Jun 23, 2007, 12:05 AM
 
Yeah. I'm not really feeling this new dock thing. It seems to be too intrusive and even slightly tacky.

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Jun 23, 2007, 12:06 AM
 
One new hidden feature is that if you hold shift while mousing over the dock you can toggle magnification on and off.

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Jun 23, 2007, 12:22 AM
 
Originally Posted by - - e r i k - - View Post
One new hidden feature is that if you hold shift while mousing over the dock you can toggle magnification on and off.
You can control click the divider to do that now.
     
zro
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Jun 23, 2007, 12:40 AM
 
Originally Posted by TETENAL View Post
Tiger:


Easier to use "find" dialog to select specific places: ✓
Search results easily sortable in the same way a Finder window is sortable: ✓
Path clearly displayed without having to hover over things: ✓

You don't have a point.
Oh, but he does.

Select two places. You are now presented with a find bar that has as selected "2 places." That's too vague for the next time you search. You have to either mouse over the "2 places" item or click on "Others..." again to be sure. User unfriendly.

That path is most certainly not always clearly visible. It is severely truncated when the path doesn't fit in the window and requires you to mouse over it. User unfriendly again.
     
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Jun 23, 2007, 02:07 AM
 
Originally Posted by zro View Post
You can control click the divider to do that now.
No no. That feature is still there. I mean if you have magnification off, the icons will magnify if you hold down shift while mousing over them.

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Jun 23, 2007, 02:54 AM
 
Well, that's cool. How about resizing the Dock? DOes it still get as small as it does in Tiger? I like mine fairly close to almost as small as it can go.
     
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Jun 23, 2007, 03:14 AM
 
Yeah, it goes all the way down. The lights stay the same size though.

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Jun 23, 2007, 03:55 AM
 
Originally Posted by - - e r i k - - View Post
And the desktop icons behind the dock have a more intense reflection than those icons that are on top.

Realism!  

(Safari 3 adds a shrink-to-fit toggle on large images? I like that.)
     
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Jun 23, 2007, 04:16 AM
 
Originally Posted by - - e r i k - - View Post
Talking about shadows, there doesn't seem to be a "universal light source" in Leopard. If you put your dock on the side, the shadow falls from the left if you have it on the right, to the right if it's on the left. All the while the windows still have their 90° shadows :/
The light is shining out of the user's forehead - centered and from slightly above.
     
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Jun 23, 2007, 05:20 AM
 

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Clive  (op)
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Jun 23, 2007, 07:11 AM
 
Originally Posted by TETENAL View Post
Tiger:


Easier to use "find" dialog to select specific places: ✓
Not.

Originally Posted by TETENAL View Post
Search results easily sortable in the same way a Finder window is sortable: ✓
Absolutely is *not*. Show us a screen shot.

Originally Posted by TETENAL View Post
Path clearly displayed without having to hover over things: ✓
Er, if you have it less than two folders deep.

Originally Posted by TETENAL View Post
You don't have a point.
And you don't have anything between your ears.
     
Clive  (op)
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Jun 23, 2007, 07:17 AM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
Clive: are you familiar with the Unix "find" command? Looks like exactly what you are looking for..
Except you have to use the command line, you don't get a window of results, and it's s-l-o-w.
     
Clive  (op)
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Jun 23, 2007, 07:19 AM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
Clive: do you really think a shadow is a killer feature, or were you speaking tongue-in-cheek?
I think the increased shadow size will not be a reason people will go out and buy Leopard.
     
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Jun 23, 2007, 07:52 AM
 
Originally Posted by SomeToast View Post

(Safari 3 adds a shrink-to-fit toggle on large images? I like that.)
Really? I didn't see it when I clicked the image from ---erik---.
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Clive  (op)
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Jun 23, 2007, 08:41 AM
 
Oh, and the Tiger search function doesn't "remember" your last search if you close the window - the 10.3 search remembers the last used criteria even between reboots.
     
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Jun 23, 2007, 10:41 AM
 
Originally Posted by Clive View Post
Absolutely is *not*. Show us a screen shot.
I did. You even quoted it.
And you don't have anything between your ears.
You are reported and ignored. I have no time to talk to a moronic *****.
( Last edited by ghporter; Jun 23, 2007 at 04:37 PM. Reason: Inappropriate word removed.)
     
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Jun 23, 2007, 03:50 PM
 
Originally Posted by bballe336 View Post
Gross. The calculator looks like it's going to float away.
Seriously, when did "gross" re-enter the day to day lexicon? I've been seeing it a lot on this board lately, did the demographics here drop down to 11 year old girls?

Oh and just to pretend I have something useful to say. I prefer the new look and prefer Spotlight over 10.3's Find. It's pretty incredible to type Sarah and get a list of emails, IMs, and photos of my wife.
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Clive  (op)
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Jun 23, 2007, 03:54 PM
 
Originally Posted by TETENAL View Post
I did. You even quoted it.
Tell you what, I'll confess, after all this time using Tiger I only just managed to find that you can have those different views for "Find" windows. Now is that because I'm stupid, or because it's well hidden?

Maybe a bit of both.

Either way, all this time I've been using "View options" (cmd-j) to try to control this window type - which at least shows something is anti-intuitive in there.

Originally Posted by TETENAL View Post
You are reported and ignored. I have no time to talk to a moronic asshole.
Well, see if you can knock yourself out rebutting these:

Although you can set the view of the found results window to "list", and sort these the same as a Finder window in list view, this setting doesn't "stick", and you have to keep changing it (sure, the fix is just a keystroke away, but this is general problem with OS X - window settings don't stick, no matter how many times you set them).

Viewing the path for found items is more difficult under 10.4 than under *all* previous system versions.

Viewing the items selected for searching is more difficult than in previous system versions.

It is not possible to turn off content level indexing and still find files that aren't indexed (previously you could entirely disable content indexing).

Previous systems remembered the last query, if the window was closed, or even through reboots.

IMO, all of these are advantages.

Oh, and you'd better watch out your mommy doesn't spank you for using language like that.
     
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Jun 23, 2007, 03:56 PM
 
Originally Posted by jasong View Post
Seriously, when did "gross" re-enter the day to day lexicon? I've been seeing it a lot on this board lately, did the demographics here drop down to 11 year old girls?
It's pretty standard English, with a long heritage originating from Latin - take a look in the dictionary, you don't have to be a Valley Girl to use it.
     
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Jun 23, 2007, 04:12 PM
 
Originally Posted by Clive View Post
It's pretty standard English, with a long heritage originating from Latin - take a look in the dictionary, you don't have to be a Valley Girl to use it.
But OS X is an operating system. People do work in it. It really isn't important that things are "pretty", as while this affects user experience, its impact on productivity is likely minimal. Most busy users of any computer system do not have the time to pick a pretty desktop picture, replace icons, and make everything look pretty, and the number of users in this sort of phase (i.e. many in here) probably does not justify Apple's efforts to obsess over.

If you want to argue that it will affect productivity, there are better words to use to express yourself other than "gross". "Gross" has the connotation of being the opposite of "pretty", at least to me.
     
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Jun 24, 2007, 12:01 AM
 
Why are people ignored the value of fun when it comes to approachability and usability? Something that is fun to use invites the user to explore and to return. Part of why I use my Mac over a Windows machine is simply because it is more fun. The new Finder gives me features that I think will make me more productive. The dock, not so much, but I don't think it's going to hamper my style and it certainly looks better (except stacks which looks to work better than I ever could have imagined this feature working).

Oh, and gross is someone puking on your shoes, not a calculator floating over a window.
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Jun 24, 2007, 12:14 AM
 
Originally Posted by jasong View Post
Why are people ignored the value of fun when it comes to approachability and usability? Something that is fun to use invites the user to explore and to return. Part of why I use my Mac over a Windows machine is simply because it is more fun. The new Finder gives me features that I think will make me more productive. The dock, not so much, but I don't think it's going to hamper my style and it certainly looks better (except stacks which looks to work better than I ever could have imagined this feature working).

Oh, and gross is someone puking on your shoes, not a calculator floating over a window.
The user experience (what you are referring to) is important, but there is so much more to the user experience than what shadows are used and how good these reflective surfaces look, or whatever it is that is being discussed here.

You guys are certainly welcome to have these conversations and I don't mean to insult anybody. It is just puzzling to me why so many obsess over "prettiness" when there is so much more than can be discussed in terms of actual usability and user experience.

I know that most of you guys are probably graphic designers, is this sort of discussion just a sort of extension of your jobs, a part of you?

Just trying to understand...
     
 
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