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clarkgoble · Jun 30, 2003, 09:36 PM

Since relatively few people want a fully Sys9 Finder, it seems to me that this is what they term a "third party opportunity." I never understood why most Finder alternatives followed the basic UI of the OSX Finder.

If the Sys9 Finder is so useful (I don't think it is) then certainly such a product would sell like hotcakes.

My own opinion is that what Tooki wants, if provided, would end up adding confusion for users. Further while I think a spatial Finder made sense back in the days of Sys6, it is rather dated today.

natan · Jun 30, 2003, 09:53 PM

I just came across two features that I haven't seen mentioned elsewhere:

1) When Expos� is activated, hitting 'b' will toggle the background dimming on/off, hitting [ and ] will change the value of the dimming, and hitting - and = will change another value of the dimming.

2) When a menu is dropped down (from the menu bar or contextually), you can type the first letter of an item to jump to that item. As far as I know, this wasn't a feature of Jaguar.

gthyb · Jun 30, 2003, 10:15 PM

very very cool. no dimming = faster expose on my imac.

KidRed · Jul 1, 2003, 12:11 AM

Originally posted by natan:
I just came across two features that I haven't seen mentioned elsewhere:

1) When Expos� is activated, hitting 'b' will toggle the background dimming on/off, hitting [ and ] will change the value of the dimming, and hitting - and = will change another value of the dimming.

2) When a menu is dropped down (from the menu bar or contextually), you can type the first letter of an item to jump to that item. As far as I know, this wasn't a feature of Jaguar.

Hitting 'b' doesn't do that for me.

Musti · Jul 1, 2003, 03:29 AM

Originally posted by natan:

1) When Expos� is activated, hitting 'b' will toggle the background dimming on/off, hitting [ and ] will change the value of the dimming, and hitting - and = will change another value of the dimming.

Very nice find.

scottiB · Jul 1, 2003, 08:57 AM

Anyone with an iSub and Panther, does the iSub now mute when mute is selected from the Apple keyboard?

Just curious...

Thanks!

jfischetti · Jul 1, 2003, 05:23 PM

i just noticed something in Panther....

you can no longer save something to the Desktop. i used to hit Apple-D to quickly select desktop as my SavePlace, no more in Panther.

Granted my Desktop looks like a disaster area, i really should save stuff to my Docs folder, but i'd still like the option.

Hello Apple Feedback.....

BuonRotto · Jul 1, 2003, 06:27 PM

Uh, you should be able to...

ShotgunEd · Jul 1, 2003, 06:58 PM

Originally posted by jfischetti:
i just noticed something in Panther....

you can no longer save something to the Desktop. i used to hit Apple-D to quickly select desktop as my SavePlace, no more in Panther.

Granted my Desktop looks like a disaster area, i really should save stuff to my Docs folder, but i'd still like the option.

Hello Apple Feedback.....

Cmd D doesnt show the desktop but its still accessible.

Terri · Jul 1, 2003, 11:08 PM

I sure hope this gets put back in as I use it many times a day. My desktop is usually empty other then what I'm working on.

lookmark · Jul 1, 2003, 11:37 PM

Originally posted by Terri:
I sure hope this gets put back in as I use it many times a day. My desktop is usually empty other then what I'm working on.

Hey Terri, you must be happy about the labels, huh?

Terri · Jul 2, 2003, 08:42 AM

Originally posted by lookmark:
Hey Terri, you must be happy about the labels, huh?

Yeah it is nice to see them back in and it looks nice how Apple did them with changing the color of the name rather then the file's icon, but I have been using the ones from Unsanity anyway so it is not that big of a deal.

What I'm really excited about is the improved open/save dialogs.

In fact from looking at the screen shots it looks like Apple has been really listening to its users.

MacGorilla · Jul 2, 2003, 11:23 AM

Originally posted by Terri:
Yeah it is nice to see them back in and it looks nice how Apple did them with changing the color of the name rather then the file's icon, but I have been using the ones from Unsanity anyway so it is not that big of a deal.

What I'm really excited about is the improved open/save dialogs.

In fact from looking at the screen shots it looks like Apple has been really listening to its users.

After the minimalism of 10.0,1 and 2 its weird to see so many options. Werid, but good.

boardsurfer · Jul 2, 2003, 12:27 PM

*only skimmed the thread*

Is there a new "command-tab" visual feedback rather than the icons in the dock growing? Screenshot?

ShotgunEd · Jul 2, 2003, 12:49 PM

Originally posted by boardsurfer:
*only skimmed the thread*

Is there a new "command-tab" visual feedback rather than the icons in the dock growing? Screenshot?

ask and you shall recieve.

Screenie

MacGorilla · Jul 2, 2003, 12:56 PM

Originally posted by boardsurfer:
*only skimmed the thread*

Is there a new "command-tab" visual feedback rather than the icons in the dock growing? Screenshot?

Does this help?

ckohler · Jul 2, 2003, 01:38 PM

ShotgunEd: What is that pawprint icon in your menubar?

MacGorilla: What is that dropdown menu icon in your menubar?

ShotgunEd · Jul 2, 2003, 01:43 PM

Originally posted by ckohler:
ShotgunEd: What is that pawprint icon in your menubar?

MacGorilla: What is that dropdown menu icon in your menubar?

The pawprint is called TigerLaunch, its like an old style apple menu that just lists your applications for handy launching.

The menu in Gorilla's menubar is from LaunchBar.

boardsurfer · Jul 2, 2003, 02:19 PM

Originally posted by MacGorilla:
Does this help?
commandtab.jpg

wow, you rock. thank you very much.

KidRed · Jul 2, 2003, 03:26 PM

Originally posted by jfischetti:
i just noticed something in Panther....

you can no longer save something to the Desktop. i used to hit Apple-D to quickly select desktop as my SavePlace, no more in Panther.

Granted my Desktop looks like a disaster area, i really should save stuff to my Docs folder, but i'd still like the option.

Hello Apple Feedback.....

Don't send feedback about not being able to save to the desktop, you'll look silly.

absmiths · Jul 2, 2003, 03:53 PM

Originally posted by KidRed:
Don't send feedback about not being able to save to the desktop, you'll look silly.

I guess I am missing something - why would he look silly? Is it because it is so painfully obvious? Is it because You would never do that?

If you mean the former, I don't know what it is either - I always just hit "Home" then drill down to Dekstop. If it is the latter, I usually use the desktop to save temporary files so I don't have to open a Finder window to get to them.

JLL · Jul 2, 2003, 03:57 PM

Originally posted by absmiths:
I guess I am missing something - why would he look silly? Is it because it is so painfully obvious? Is it because You would never do that?

Sending feedback about a developer release that you're not supposed to have is a smart thing to do?

KidRed · Jul 2, 2003, 04:43 PM

Originally posted by absmiths:
I guess I am missing something - why would he look silly? Is it because it is so painfully obvious? Is it because You would never do that?

If you mean the former, I don't know what it is either - I always just hit "Home" then drill down to Dekstop. If it is the latter, I usually use the desktop to save temporary files so I don't have to open a Finder window to get to them.

Because there is no problem with saving to the desktop. It works, there's no issue. So if he were to send in feedback complaining that his pirated build doesn't work even tho it does for everyone else, he'd look silly .

MacGorilla · Jul 2, 2003, 06:48 PM

The menu in Gorilla's menubar is from LaunchBar.

Yes it is and I am pleased to report it works just fine in Panther. If you are not using LaunchBar, you are missing out on one of the best Mac OS X apps there is:

http://www.obdev.at/products/launchbar/

lookmark · Jul 2, 2003, 07:34 PM

It's not quite the same, but it's interesting to note that the Panther Finder can be used a poor man's LaunchBar.

Very poor man.

MacGorilla · Jul 2, 2003, 07:50 PM

Originally posted by lookmark:
It's not quite the same, but it's interesting to note that the Panther Finder can be used a poor man's LaunchBar.

Very poor man.

I see that. It doesn't have anything on the real deal.

scotty321 · 08:43 PM

1) I heard that they actually removed something REALLY USEFUL in Panther. In all the open/save dialog boxes, I heard that you no longer have the ability to go to your "favorite places" or your "recent places" anymore! I used to use these ALL THE TIME -- and now they're completely gone?!?

2) PLUS, if they're gonna revamp our open/save dialog boxes completely, they should at least give us the ability to drag folders into the pane on the left. Also, they should at least give us the same functionality that Windows uers have: The ability to RENAME files & folders within the dialog box, a pop-up menu of recently saved names, a pop-up menu of recently opened documents & folders.

This change of the open/save dialog boxes is a step in the WRONG direction! Don't take away features from us -- keep the ones we use every day, and add onto them in an intuitive way! This makes everything more difficult.

scotty321 · Jul 2, 2003, 08:26 PM

Does "File Vault" encryption mean that I can now boot up from an external hard drive and when I try to get into my home directory on the main machine, I won't have access to those files anymore? This was a huge security flaw in Jaguar -- is this what "File Vault" takes care of?

scotty321 · Jul 2, 2003, 08:38 PM

It appears like the Finder icon in the dock no longer has the running triangle underneath it. That's a bit disconcerting... since the Finder is always running!

ShotgunEd · Jul 2, 2003, 08:47 PM

Originally posted by scotty321:
Does "File Vault" encryption mean that I can now boot up from an external hard drive and when I try to get into my home directory on the main machine, I won't have access to those files anymore? This was a huge security flaw in Jaguar -- is this what "File Vault" takes care of?

Im not really sure how file vault works, but if it works the way you think it does, im sure you'd be able to unlock your files with your user's password.

BuonRotto · Jul 2, 2003, 08:51 PM

scotty, your favorite places = the open/save sidebar. However, "recent places" is AWOL.

MacGorilla · Jul 2, 2003, 09:08 PM

Originally posted by scotty321:
It appears like the Finder icon in the dock no longer has the running triangle underneath it. That's a bit disconcerting... since the Finder is always running!

Its there on mine. It doesn't show any triangles when you command tab, since this only shows running apps.

kcmac · Jul 2, 2003, 10:57 PM

I think File Vault only works when you log out. So you would have to log back in which would give you access to your files.

Is that correct?

ShotgunEd · Jul 3, 2003, 04:45 AM

Originally posted by kcmac:
I think File Vault only works when you log out. So you would have to log back in which would give you access to your files.

Is that correct?

Well its pretty bad if you system breaks and you cant start up. Surely filevault will need some sort of authentication that you are the owner of said files, so, it'll ask for a pass, then you can access them. Or at least I'd think that'd be the way it works.

TC · Jul 3, 2003, 04:59 AM

Based on a tip over at Mac OS X Hints you can easily check if any app is carbon or cocoa.

You just try to drag an application's window down below the dock. Carbon apps stop when their title bar reaches the top of the dock. Cocoa apps will just continue down to below the dock.

Based on this the finder in Panther is a Carbon app.

Here's a few others based on this but I guess you knew most of them:

Cocoa:
iCal
iMovie (Since ver 3?)
iPhoto
iChat
Mail
Safari

Carbon:
Finder
iTunes

This has already been argued to death about and shouldn't be seen as a big deal. There doesn't seem to be a rule about which apps are better just that most apps ported to OS X use Carbon and newly developed apps use Cocoa. iMovie is the interesting one since it was originally Carbon and Apple decided to move it over to Cocoa with the latest version.

MacGorilla · Jul 3, 2003, 07:05 AM

Wow! I never knew that. Nifty!

bewebste · Jul 3, 2003, 10:31 AM

Originally posted by scotty321:
1) I heard that they actually removed something REALLY USEFUL in Panther. In all the open/save dialog boxes, I heard that you no longer have the ability to go to your "favorite places" or your "recent places" anymore! I used to use these ALL THE TIME -- and now they're completely gone?!?

2) PLUS, if they're gonna revamp our open/save dialog boxes completely, they should at least give us the ability to drag folders into the pane on the left. Also, they should at least give us the same functionality that Windows uers have: The ability to RENAME files & folders within the dialog box, a pop-up menu of recently saved names, a pop-up menu of recently opened documents & folders.

This change of the open/save dialog boxes is a step in the WRONG direction! Don't take away features from us -- keep the ones we use every day, and add onto them in an intuitive way! This makes everything more difficult.

I believe the favorites menu has been replaced by the items listed on the left hand side of the dialog. I'm not sure if you can actually add new items to that pane through the dialog, but whatever you add to that pane in the Finder shows up in the dialog too, so it is customizable. I do agree that they should have a way to access recent items though.

I don't know about Windows' save dialogs, but in Panther you can click on an item in the dialog and it will fill in the name field with the name of the item you clicked. This is definitely new and wasn't in Jaguar.

MacGorilla · Jul 3, 2003, 10:49 AM

[quote]I don't know about Windows' save dialogs, but in Panther you can click on an item in the dialog and it will fill in the name field with the name of the item you clicked. This is definitely new and wasn't in Jaguar.[quote]

It wasn't and I didn't know about this feature until now. Pretty neat!

lookmark · Jul 3, 2003, 11:05 AM

Originally posted by bewebste:
I don't know about Windows' save dialogs, but in Panther you can click on an item in the dialog and it will fill in the name field with the name of the item you clicked. This is definitely new and wasn't in Jaguar.

This has been a feature of Windows save dialogs for years (since Win98?). It's also one that I've been requesting Apple to include for years.

Thank you. Finally.

kerrazyjoe · Jul 3, 2003, 11:13 AM

Originally posted by lookmark:
This has been a feature of Windows save dialogs for years (since Win98?). It's also one that I've been requesting Apple to include for years.

Yea that's nice to replace a file or get most of the name such as
myfile001.jpg
myfile
myfile002.jpg

kerrazyjoe · Jul 3, 2003, 11:17 AM

Originally posted by MacGorilla:
Does this help?

Looks like LiteSwitch for Jaguar - KOOL!

clarkgoble · Jul 4, 2003, 12:05 AM

Regarding the favorites and the left "finder" bar.

While I'm not going to predict it, I suspect that the "Recent Items" will be the first "smart folder" that makes it into the Finder or Open/Save dialog. It just makes sense.

After all, Apple already collects that information and has it in a menu in 10.2.

This is the most used "smart playlist" I use in iTunes as well. I have one that lists the last 50 added songs and the last 50 played songs. Having something similar would be great. What would be even better are smart folders for things like the last 20 word documents or things like that. Apple in theory could do that even without adding new metadata to the Finder/file system.

What would really be nice is use the new labels and use those for smart grouping in this fashion.

As I said, I'm still convinced this stuff is coming. I'm just no longer convinced it will be part of 10.3. It may not arrive until 10.3.1.

Superchicken · Jul 4, 2003, 02:58 AM

Labels would do better to do something similar to just changing the hue, like in Photoshop.

Not to mention use a viritcal list so you could create your own.

TC · Jul 4, 2003, 03:27 AM

They might just put recent places into the load/save dialogues in the same way it was done in OS9.
Have a look at "Connect To Server" using cmd-K in the finder to see how they've done it for recent network places.

The other thing with recent places, it doesn't need to be a special folder as right now it is just saved in one of your plists. In OS 9 there used to be a folder for this and I hope they bring back that way of doing it.

The reason I'd like it as a folder is that it makes it easy to set up an applescript which can populate this when I move between different projects.

zadak · Jul 4, 2003, 03:41 AM

Originally posted by nagromme:
Add those two things and one other--easy syncing of POP email between laptop and desktop with just ethernet--and I'd be in heaven.

I would seriously start to cry if that would work.

I also want iSync at large to work directly between computers. Why go through $99-.Mac when the computers are right next to each other (or have a direct connection via the Internet)?.

Simon · Jul 4, 2003, 03:49 AM

Originally posted by zadak:
I would seriously start to cry if that would work.

Maybe an AppleScript (triggered when the machines connect) that takes one Inbox.mbox file, merges it with the other and then copies the file back to both computers would do the job...

scotty321 · Jul 4, 2003, 11:17 AM

FYI, Apple is officially taking feedback on the 10.3 Developer Preview: <http://www.apple.com/macosx/feedback/>. Mac OS X 10.3 is one of the choices in the pop-up menu.

vmpaul · Jul 4, 2003, 12:25 PM

2 Questions for those with a Dev release:

1) You can't receive faxes through a cable modem, can you? I'm assuming it's only if you're on a dial-up modem.

2) The secure empthy trash option can't be switched to always on, can it?

ShotgunEd · Jul 4, 2003, 01:10 PM

Originally posted by vmpaul:
2 Questions for those with a Dev release:

1) You can't receive faxes through a cable modem, can you? I'm assuming it's only if you're on a dial-up modem.

2) The secure empthy trash option can't be switched to always on, can it?

You need to fax through a normal modem.

Secure delete cannot be selected as default.

nickm · Jul 4, 2003, 02:03 PM

Another question for all you pir ... er ... developers. IF you have your Dock on the left, are windows smarter about avoiding it? Terminal is particularly egregious in this department.