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Pismo and OS X
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vutenor
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Apr 12, 2001, 09:05 PM
 
I hope I'm not starting a topic that has already been discussed, I'm just looking for advice. I just bought one of the dirt-cheap Pismo Powerbooks (it should be here in 2 days to replace my iMac). I know nothing about OS X or partitioning. Is it worth me buying? Can a non-computer savy person (I basically just use internet and word processing) use it, or will too many problems that I don't know how to deal with occur? Also, I'm not understanding the thing with OS 9: X replaces it, right? Why are people talking about running both?
Sorry I'm so computer illiterate.
     
gorgonzola
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Apr 12, 2001, 09:13 PM
 
Never apologize for not being very computer literate.

Honestly, if all you're doing is word processing and internet browsing, it's really not worth the trouble to upgrade to OS X. Partitioning is a safety measure people take, and on the whole you have to relearn a few things. Nothing major, but you're not really getting anything out of it. Modem support in OS X is a little flaky right now (DSL and Cable support is superb, albeit not for PacBell for some reason).

People talk about running both because OS X can't do certain things like burn CD's, so you have to restart in OS 9 to be able to do those things. Also, OS X includes a compatability environment that lets you run all your OS 9 apps; you need OS 9 installed to do this. Hence both.

I would recommend waiting until OS X has gone through a few updates, bug fixes, and optimizations. Learn about OS X, but think about upgrading again in July.

That's my 2�.

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vutenor  (op)
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Apr 12, 2001, 09:17 PM
 
Thanks. I am eligible for the education discount....should I buy it now and wait to install it till it gets better or do you think that $69 ed price will still apply in 6 months or so (after they fix some bugs)?
     
gorgonzola
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Apr 12, 2001, 09:21 PM
 
It will probably still apply. All their products have permanent education discounts, don't they?

If they don't, then I would recommend calling Apple to check about that; if they suggest buying it now, maybe you should buy it now and get the update later.

It all depends on their pricing scheme, which I'm not too familiar with when it comes to education discounts. 1800-MY-APPLE will likely answer all your questions about edu prices.

good luck

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Since EBCDIC
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Apr 12, 2001, 09:53 PM
 
I'm running OS X on a Pismo right now, with 512 MB RAM. It's wonderful, with Classic apps running in an even more stable way than OS 9.

My recommendation, forget about partitioning. Add RAM. Format the hard drive and install OS 9.1. Then install 10.0. Then enjoy.

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vutenor  (op)
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Apr 12, 2001, 10:07 PM
 
I've got 320MB of RAM on it. Is that enough for OS X to run well, if I decide to buy it, or should I upgrade to 512MB?
     
Pismo Of Ages
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Apr 12, 2001, 10:11 PM
 
Im running X on my Pismo right now, 400Mhz, 256MB o' RAM, 30 GB hd(three partitions, 9.1, 10.0.1, LinuxPPC), it runs soooooooooooooooooooooo well, its awesome =b

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gorgonzola
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Apr 12, 2001, 10:41 PM
 
Originally posted by vutenor:
I've got 320MB of RAM on it. Is that enough for OS X to run well, if I decide to buy it, or should I upgrade to 512MB?
That's enough.

The machine can more than handle it; it's the problems on OS X's end that made me recommend not installing it, since your needs are minimal and you're not too familiar with things like partitioning.

I suspect it would be a nightmare for you if something went wrong.

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Riemann Zeta
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Apr 12, 2001, 11:12 PM
 
I just bought a new pismo for 1599 USD. I also bought OS X. Needless to say, I loved X, the terminal, the power, the gorgeous GUI. However, also needless to say, after 1 week with OS X (Build 4L7) I reformatted and put OS 9.1 back on my machine. Compared with 9.1, OS X is painfully slow.
I would say, unless you really need a unix terminal, wait to upgrade until OS X 10.1 (July, September, ad infinitium...)
     
coconut
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Apr 12, 2001, 11:30 PM
 
I have a Pismo 400 with 192 MB RAM running on OS X 4L7 and I can tell you that it's somewhat slow and quite not comparable to OS 9. I'm seriously considering buying more RAM and a faster (5400 rpm) HD. As to what I've heard, adding those should provide some noticeable speed improvement (hopefully).

As somebody said previously, if you want to surf and email, OS X is quite adequate and will give you a glimpse of how good it will one day be. Other than that, you can also fool around with *nix applications like I am (bioinformatics tools, actually).

Seriously, if you want to work with the feature packed multimedia apps, I would suggest staying away from OS X. I find Classic inadequate for working with mission critical stuff, especially if you make a living out of desing and stuff.

Good Luck !
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torifile
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Apr 12, 2001, 11:55 PM
 
I must respectfully disagree with the previous poster. I use X on my pismo (384 megs of ram) and I love it. Let me say that again, I love it. If all you do is surf the web and word process, you should definitely get it as it can do those thing perfectly well and you're getting the experience using it. At first I was skeptical at using it full time because I had the mentality that I would just wipe the hard drive and reinstall the next build (that was some rat race, I'm glad it's over) but I've gotten more and more comfortable with it and I have days of uptime. Just leave classic running and you won't know the difference. Things in classic will look different but they'll work just as well.

That said, if you're doing any kind of web dev work, you should definitely get it. There's nothing like toting your pismo to a local coffeeshop and testing your pages, complete with php, perl and mysql (that's the reason I love having X on my pismo). There's no harm whatsoever in having it. I would recommend partitioning your hard drive and installing X and 9.1 on different drives so that if you need to get rid of it, it's relatively easy. I say go for it!

ps- as a side note, battery life is not that great in X and make sure you don't leave your computer asleep over night if you don't have it plugged in because it'll be dead in the morning.

pps- Try having all the apps you use most open at log in and leave them running. They'll be MUCH faster to access when you want them and you won't know they're running if you're not using them b/c you've got plenty of ram.
     
nigeljedi
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Apr 13, 2001, 12:12 AM
 
There are valid points for and against installing OS X. Because you are newer to the X world, actually, you'd make a great candidate for it. You wouldn't have to re-learn anything critical (due to X's "radical new look and feel"), and the learning curve for the rest of X wouldn't be as steep. And, since OS X is basically the future of the Mac, it wouldn't hurt to get in on the ground floor...you'd have that much more knowledge when all apps are for OS X, and the old Platinum thing is gone for good.
On the other hand, OS 9 is faster than X (at least on my Pismo/400mhz/384MB RAM and my iMac/350mhz/320MB RAM), and a greater deal of applications are available for it.
It comes down to this: do you want to be a little more risky and progressive, or do you want to hold on to the vestiges of the "tried and true" for a little while longer?
Either way, I don't think you'll lose much...after all, if X sucks in your opinion, just re-install 9.

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coconut
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Apr 13, 2001, 09:04 AM
 
[QUOTE]Originally posted by torifile:
I must respectfully disagree with the previous poster. I use X on my pismo (384 megs of ram) and I love it. Let me say that again, I love it. If all you do is surf the web and word process, you should definitely get it as it can do those thing perfectly well and you're getting the experience using it. At first I was skeptical at using it full time because I had the mentality that I would just wipe the hard drive and reinstall the next build (that was some rat race, I'm glad it's over) but I've gotten more and more comfortable with it and I have days of uptime. Just leave classic running and you won't know the difference. Things in classic will look different but they'll work just as well.

I think the difference here is that YOU have 384 MB RAM, while I only have 192 MB RAM. Classic hogs the system down every time I start Classic. I usually turn it off when I'm working with RAM-hungry stuff.

That said, if you're doing any kind of web dev work, you should definitely get it. There's nothing like toting your pismo to a local coffeeshop and testing your pages, complete with php, perl and mysql (that's the reason I love having X on my pismo). There's no harm whatsoever in having it. I would recommend partitioning your hard drive and installing X and 9.1 on different drives so that if you need to get rid of it, it's relatively easy. I say go for it!

But if you're using mainstream stuff like Dreamweaver UltraDev, Flash, etc. Classic is somewhat an annoyance. However, you're right about the PHP/mySQL stuff; I'm pretty much happy about that and it's actually one of the two reasons I keep OS X on my Pismo.

Another problem is that OS X uses Virtual Memory a lot, and with the standard 4200 rpm HD, it's painfully slow when OS X tries to access the HD.

Of course, it's only my opinion, maybe you'll actually find OS X fast enough for ALL of your needs.

[This message has been edited by coconut (edited 04-13-2001).]
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Since EBCDIC
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Apr 13, 2001, 12:48 PM
 
I don't want to sound too much like Tevye ("you're right, and you know, you're right too") but everyone here has the right clue.

10.0 is slower than 9.1, but that's because it gives you more. Much more. The question is whether you really want the more enough to put up with the less.

Gorgonzola has a very valid worry, that you'll find something going wrong a catastrophe. If you're not doing frequent backups, and you're not ready to get your hands dirty with a new release of software, then stay away from 10.0. (Although you should be doing those backups regardless of the OS you're using.)

10.0 is fascinating, but it's like a new roller coaster. (And I'm saying this as a twenty-year UNIX and Mac geek.)

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Riemann Zeta
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Apr 13, 2001, 01:52 PM
 
My pismo (400) has 384 MB of RAM. I just think 9.1 is a better OS for laptops right now. This hopefully will change by Sept 2001. After all, OS X has no power management, the sleep feature is horrible and the full screen antialiasing does not look good on a TFT.
If Apple optimizes OS X (bootspeed, app launch time, etc...,) gives it a real PM engine and fixes all of the Aqua/Finder speed problems it will be quite the viable OS.
     
Colonel Panic
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Apr 13, 2001, 02:26 PM
 
bah! it's *already* a "viable" OS. On my Pismo 500, I *vastly* prefer it to 9.1. STABLE. not as "responsive" as 9.1 but the sluggishness is overstated. All apps open in less than 8 bounces for me, except OmniWeb. Classic apps in one bounce. Most, like sherlock or terminal in 2-3 bounces. Come on. that's fine. These libraries are dynamically loaded. Better that than extension conflicts. Having access to a posix-compliant system on a rock-solid kernal under the GUI is a dream. if the only downside is "apps lauch slow" and "live redraw is slow" it seems like a brilliant trade to me. If someone said to me , well, we can take your X and speed it up, but it'll be crash prone and you'll lose Terminal access I'd say no way.

Anti-aliasing is gorgeous on my PB. I can't stand anti-aliasing in 9.1, love it in X.

More speed'll be nice, but that'll be just another layer of icing on an already incredible, scrumptuous cake.

What Apple has done is a major leap forward for the platform. Let's face it, 9.1 was ahead of Win 9.x/ME but was up against solid competition in Win2K and to a lesser extent Linux. These were solid, enterprise OS's. Now Apple's got one to. And get this. It's gorgeous and easy to use! The best OS in town is Apple's again.


For me, the things I miss about 9.1 are GUI elements that I'd grown accustomed to. I'm loving the dock, though, and suspect the 9 nostalgia will weaken. Great 3rd party apps add things like an app menu in the upper right, so it's there if I want it....

ps - you are correct. power management does suck at the moment. make no mistake, there's room to improve, but man, what a release 10.0 is!



[This message has been edited by Colonel Panic (edited 04-13-2001).]
     
hekp
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Apr 13, 2001, 07:34 PM
 
quote :
After all, OS X has no power management, the sleep feature is horrible and the full screen antialiasing does not look good on a TFT.

Well come on! What's horrible with the computer going to sleep *instantly* ? Is it *too* fast for you? And I think antialiasing looks good on a TFT. It's all a matter of taste. Maybe you could've said "I don't like how antialiasing looks on a TFT."

Just my 9 cents.
     
Riemann Zeta
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Apr 13, 2001, 08:23 PM
 
Sorry, I should have said:

Apple should give users the option of deactivating the antialiasing. I think it looks ugly and wastes integral cpu cycles (as does the impresive but slow genie effect and live window resizing/dragging.)
     
Since EBCDIC
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Apr 14, 2001, 06:35 AM
 
I understand the esthetic desire to be rid of anti-aliasing (although I hated it in the beginning but have really grown to love it).

As a professional programmer I don't think that much of the user interface sluggishness to which we've subjected in 10.0.0 (and some of which may be fixed in 10.0.1, reputedly) has to do with anti-aliasing or live dragging.

With the exception of sluggishness, I also find OS X to be a far superior OS on my Pismo 400 MHz. Of course, I love the uptimes, and that I'm able to develop Java servlets right on my laptop, in a caf�, is beyond thrilling.

I have waited (literally) years for this moment. Think SPARCbook.

There is no better time to be a geek than right now :-)

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coconut
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Apr 14, 2001, 09:56 AM
 
btw, does everybody have bad launching times with Omniweb ? On my pismo, it takes something like 36-40 bounces... 4L13 installed...
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