[MindFad]

Originally posted by lil'babykitten:
Actually, I believe Bush's actions play right in to the hands of people like Bin Laden. Allows them to further their cause.

Of course this is the case, but people don't even seem to consider it as a possibility�despite it being obvious in the Arab world. Put on your blindfold and chant "the world is a safer place," and people start to believe it.

[vmpaul]

Originally posted by spacefreak:
Do you have a link showing actual Al Qaeda membership numbers before and after the War on Terror began?

I don't think AQ publish their member lists.

Here's the Patterns of Global Terrorism 2003 from the US State Dept. that states that "terrorism overall will be shown to have increased in 2003 from the previous year". That's as about as official as it gets.

If you don't want to read the whole report here's some articles on how they had to correct the report after they released it with the wrong numbers. The articles paraphrase the report pretty well.

BBC.com
Voice of America
CNN.com

[Zimphire]

Originally posted by Dakar:
Too bad they're mostly ones he helped create.

Wha? How did he help create these people that have been around doing this well before his time in office? This is comedy gold.

Originally posted by Lerkfish:
then why are there more of them?

There are MORE terrorists Lerk? I doubt you can actually PROVE there are MORE terrorists. Just another one of your Lerkisms.

Originally posted by lil'babykitten:
Actually, I believe Bush's actions play right in to the hands of people like Bin Laden. Allows them to further their cause.

No, they would have an excuse no matter who was in office.

[Stradlater]

Originally posted by Zimphire:
Wha? How did he help create these people that have been around doing this well before his time in office? This is comedy gold.

Almost as laff-able as your sig. There are people who have become terrorists because of the US actions as directed by Commander in Chief.

Originally posted by Zimphire:
There are MORE terrorists Lerk? I doubt you can actually PROVE there are MORE terrorists. Just another one of your Lerkisms.

Just as you could doubtfully prove there are less. It is likely that there are more, though, unfortunately.

Originally posted by Zimphire:
No, they would have an excuse no matter who was in office.

Some would and did, surely, and others wouldn't have become terrorists in the first place.

[Zimphire]

Originally posted by Stradlater:
Almost as laff-able as your sig. There are people who have become terrorists because of the US actions as directed by Commander in Chief.

Right, just as there have been people who have become terrorists under the actions of any of our presidents. They don't have to have a reason. They can just make them up. This is no way says they want Bush in office.

Just as you could doubtfully prove there are less. It is likely that there are more, though, unfortunately.

Some would and did, surely, and others wouldn't have become terrorists in the first place.

How do you know? You are making up stuff.

Quit it.

[Dakar]

Originally posted by Zimphire:
Wha? How did he help create these people that have been around doing this well before his time in office?

They seem to be coming out of the woodwork ever since we set foot in Iraq. Which is sidsconcerting, given the fact that Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11.

Originally posted by Zimphire:
This is comedy gold.

The only thing that's comedy gold is you pretending not to know what I'm saying when you spend more time on these forums that most everyone and I'm not the first person to bring this point up.

[Zimphire]

Originally posted by Dakar:
They seem to be coming out of the woodwork ever since we set foot in Iraq. Which is sidsconcerting, given the fact that Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11.

1. Some groups from Iran have been coming to Iraq to disrupt things. This was to be expected.
2. Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11. So? This wasn't a war against just the 9/11 people.

The only thing that's comedy gold is you pretending not to know what I'm saying when you spend more time on these forums that most everyone and I'm not the first person to bring this point up.

Heh, everyone! Constantly! Forever!

You don't make a lot of sense. Sorry.

[Troll]

Originally posted by Zimphire:

1. Some groups from Iran have been coming to Iraq to disrupt things. This was to be expected. [/B]

Some! What about the rest? You have to admit that there are a whole heap of Iraqi terrorists now. They weren't terrorists before Bush shocked and awed them were they? To deny that Bush's actions haven't created more terrorists is ludicrous.

[olePigeon]

Originally posted by Zimphire:
Wha? How did he help create these people that have been around doing this well before his time in office? This is comedy gold.

Helping create new factions and rally support behind their causes. Declaring a war on terrorism then invading Iraq with a pre-emptive strike without the U.N., based off faulty information was a really stupid thing to do. It only generated more sympathy for the terrorists from people and countries who were borderline. And calling them the "axis of evil" didn't help either.

There are MORE terrorists Lerk? I doubt you can actually PROVE there are MORE terrorists. Just another one of your Lerkisms.

Let' see... we've caught, eh, a few terrorists. I'm sure in the time that Bin Laden's been running around no new terrorists have been recruited.

No, they would have an excuse no matter who was in office.

Right, so why don't we get someone in office that can fix our economy AND fight the war on terrorism?

[olePigeon]

Originally posted by Zimphire:

2. Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11. So? This wasn't a war against just the 9/11 people.

The 9/11 people... with the majority being Saudi Arabian. That's why invaded Iraq. You know, to stop the terrorists in Afghanistan. No, it was weapons of mass destruction. Hah, sorry, I meant liberation of the Iraqi people from a ruthless dictator. And THAT'S why North Korea is running around with WMDs under a ruthless dictator... because... umm, yeah. Right.

You don't make a lot of sense. Sorry.

Funny, I was going to say the same thing.

Edit: Not Iranian.

[BlackGriffen]

Originally posted by olePigeon:
The 9/11 people... with the majority being Iranians.

You mean Saudis, right?


BG

[olePigeon]

Originally posted by BlackGriffen:
You mean Saudis, right?


BG

Ugh, yeah. Sorry. Heh,

[Lerkfish]

Originally posted by olePigeon:
Ugh, yeah. Sorry. Heh,

the republican memes have infected you.

[Zimphire]

Originally posted by olePigeon:
Helping create new factions and rally support behind their causes. Declaring a war on terrorism then invading Iraq with a pre-emptive strike without the U.N., based off faulty information was a really stupid thing to do. It only generated more sympathy for the terrorists from people and countries who were borderline. And calling them the "axis of evil" didn't help either.

PURE Smokescreen. They will have a reason NO MATTER what is done. They had reasons when Clinton attacked Iraq without the U.N. They don't CARE about the U.N. It's a big smokescreen.

Let' see... we've caught, eh, a few terrorists. I'm sure in the time that Bin Laden's been running around no new terrorists have been recruited.

We've caught more than a few, and some we have blown off the face of the earth. Bin Laden isn't going to be running around free soon.

Right, so why don't we get someone in office that can fix our economy AND fight the war on terrorism?

Like Bill did by cutting military and intelligence spending? Hard to "balance the budget" when you are not only trying to get military and intelligence back to where it SHOULD have been, but add to it because of terrorists.

Tell me who do we owe this money to?

[Dakar]

Originally posted by Zimphire:
We've caught more than a few, and some we have blown off the face of the earth. Bin Laden isn't going to be running around free soon.

What? Did we actually recommit forces to Afghanistan?

Originally posted by Zimphire:
Like Bill did by cutting military and intelligence spending? Hard to "balance the budget" when you are not only trying to get military and intelligence back to where it SHOULD have been, but add to it because of terrorists.

Hard to balance the budget when you cut taxes at the same time too. But then again Bush like to do two things at once, while they are at odds with each other. Just like trying to cathc Bin Laden by pulling forces to go into Iraq, when Iraq was no immenent threat.

[tie]

Originally posted by Zimphire:
I am not posting this saying Bush has never lied. I am sure he has.

But I have been hearing from the left in here how much Bush is a liar. But I haven't heard of any honest answers as to WHAT he has lied about.

This example is too funny not to post, even though it doesn't involve matters of state. From Kristof's op-ed today.

Let me offer an example - not from Iraq but from Mr. Bush's autobiography. In it, he tells a charming little story involving his daughters in 1988, on the eve of the presidential debate between his father and Michael Dukakis:

"One night, Laura and I were out of town campaigning, and Barbara and Jenna spent the night at the vice presidential mansion. Dad had spent the day preparing for a debate with Michael Dukakis. Unfortunately, Barbara lost her sleeping companion, Spikey, her favorite stuffed dog. She complained loudly that she could not sleep without Spikey, so 'Gampy,' better known as Vice President Bush, spent much of the night before his debate searching the house and grounds of the vice presidential residence, flashlight in hand, on a mission to find Spikey. Finally, he did, and Barbara slept soundly. I don't know if my dad ever went to sleep that night."

It's a heartwarming tale of family values. And while it's not malicious enough to count as a lie, it's laced with falsehoods.

We know that because Mr. Bush's mother wrote about the same incident much earlier, in 1990, in "Millie's Book," nominally written by her dog. For starters, the episode occurred when the girls were five and a half, in 1987, a year before the presidential debate.

What's more, "Millie's Book" says that Spikey was a cat, not a dog. And instead of searching all night and finally finding Spikey, Vice President Bush gave up, grumbling: "I have work to do. What am I doing searching for a stuffed animal outdoors in the dark?" Anyway, little Barbara had already fallen asleep with another stuffed animal. Spikey turned up the next day behind the curtains.

(I can hear some of you protesting: "You're gonna take a dog's word over our president's?" Well, frankly, no one has ever impugned Millie's word. And Millie has witnesses. The first President Bush and his wife, Barbara, later confirmed to me through a spokesman that they did not believe that Spikey had been lost on the eve of a presidential debate.)

Here's Kristof's thesis:

The current president's hyped version of the incident reflects his casual relationship with truth. Like President Ronald Reagan, reality to him is not about facts, but about higher meta-truths: Mom and Dad are loving grandparents, Saddam Hussein is an evil man, and so on. To clarify those overarching realities, Mr. Bush harnesses "facts," both true and false.
...
But that's also the problem with his administration: his convictions are so solid that they're inflexible and utterly impervious to reality. When Mr. Bush pumped up the intelligence on Iraqi W.M.D., his exaggerations reflected the overriding truth as he saw it - that Saddam Hussein was a menace. I think Mr. Bush considered himself truthful, even when he wasn't factual.

If Mr. Bush were a private citizen, I would admire his tenacity, just as I respect Barry Goldwater, Red Sox fans and Flat-Earthers. But for a president, I wish we had a clear-eyed thinker who understood the difference between Osama bin Laden and Saddam Hussein, or between a stuffed dog and a stuffed cat.

[Myrkridia]

Originally posted by Zimphire:
I am not posting this saying Bush has never lied. I am sure he has.

But I have been hearing from the left in here how much Bush is a liar. But I haven't heard of any honest answers as to WHAT he has lied about.

I posted this because I am honestly curious as to what our President has lied about since he has been in office.

WMD's, Mission Accomplished.

[aberdeenwriter]

Originally posted by tie

If Mr. Bush were a private citizen, I would admire his tenacity, just as I respect Barry Goldwater, Red Sox fans and Flat-Earthers. But for a president, I wish we had a clear-eyed thinker who understood the difference between Osama bin Laden and Saddam Hussein, or between a stuffed dog and a stuffed cat.

The Red Sox fans laughed tonite. Bush fanboys & fangirls will laugh next week. As for Saddam and OBL, I doubt they have many yuks in store.