[iMacfan]

Hello,

I'm about to get a new mac - I was thinking of a Mac Pro, but with the 24" iMac I think I'll get that and save a huge chunk of money. If that's the case, I can afford to do what I have always wanted, which is to get a really good set of speakers for my computer - I've already got most of my CDs ripped in lossless anyhow, so I should hear the quality.

At the moment I'm using a pair of Videologic Sirocco Spirits - actually quite good, and I'd have to make sure that the new solution was a vast improvement over them - maybe getting a subwoofer to add to them might be a better idea?

I'm definitely looking for a very good 2.0 or 2.1 setup, no surround sound. But, I'm really hoping to get the audio out of the computer through the optical outputs, but I can't see any amplifiers with either SPDIF or optical ins. My other option would be a very good computer setup, but I get the impression that most are more about style than actual quality - I actually prefer two smart black boxes.

Any ideas very welcome - or does anyone know of a better forum to discuss this?

Thanks,

David

[imitchellg5]

This is a good forum for this. I would get the Harman Kardon Soundsticks. They are a little expensive, but they sound amazing. Harman Multimedia

[slpdLoad]

If you want optical, I would say you'll need an actual reciever, to which you can attach a nice pair of bookshelf-style speakers and a good subwoofer. Such a setup would probably start around $300 for a low-end setup, but I'd guess you'd end up paying much more for a really nice 2.1 system.

[Nai no Kami]

If you are looking for a really good speaker setup, for €25,000 each, you could grab a pair of these:


Nevertheless, you should consider harman/kardon soundsticks (or soundsticks II). My brother has the latter and I have the former, and I find the USB version better sounding. Be aware that with a lot of use and the course of the years (my speaker system has about 5 years) they tend to produce vibrations on certain notes. Mine, for example, were particularly annoying with middle E# (yeah, I took the job of determining that using my synth). I solved the problem aplying silicone sealer to the joint of the two pieces of the cabinet. Now they sound as new, and it is about a year since the "siliconing".

Good luck.


If you happen to buy the nautilus set, you could invite me a pair of beers and some listening hours on your flamboyant system.

[iMacfan]

Originally Posted by slpdLoad

If you want optical, I would say you'll need an actual reciever, to which you can attach a nice pair of bookshelf-style speakers and a good subwoofer. Such a setup would probably start around $300 for a low-end setup, but I'd guess you'd end up paying much more for a really nice 2.1 system.

That's exactly what I want, but I can only see optical on full AV receivers, which have loads more channels etc that I don't want to pay for - are there any simple stereo amps that do the same job?

Thank you everyone for the replies - strangely enough, my budget sits somewhere between the soundsticks and the nautilus! - maybe about $600-1000 if it's worth it?

David

[chefpastry]

I have been using one of these for a while now; soundmatters | mainstage and I've been very pleased. However, my ears are definitely not of expert qualification...

[plastiqueusa]

I've got a Denon ADV-M71 and think it's great; it may be just what you're looking for. It's a 5.1 receiver with optical line-in, but comes with only 2 amplifiers in it and lineouts for the other channels. It's very full-featured for movie and music sound processing (Virtual Dolby PLII and Virtual Dolby Headphone sound enhancement, DD and DTS decoders) if you're into in that sort of thing--I love it overall.

You can find it for a reasonable price if you look around the 'net since they've been out for a little while now; you can currently find refurbs at Amazon.com for less than $250 (a great price). Then you'll have enough left over to shop for good quality speakers--I've got Mirage Omnisats myself.

[iMacfan]

Thanks again for the ideas - I like the idea of the Denon, I'll look into it.

I googled my current speakers, and from the reviews it looks like they are actually a little bit better than the original Klipsch promedia 2.1, only with less bass (no sub). I like the idea of the Sirocco Pro, which had a sub, much better satellites, and optical in. However, it seems like Videologic as a company is no longer of this world...

One final question - what is the line out from the iMac like? Is it even a line out? It's just that every built in sound out I've had in a computer - mac or pc - has suffered from poor quality and inteference.

Thanks,

David

[imitchellg5]

The line out has excellent quality on the iMac. G5s with iSight and newer are optical line out.

[iMacfan]

Originally Posted by imitchellg5

The line out has excellent quality on the iMac. G5s with iSight and newer are optical line out.

That's the problem though - most stereo amps don't have an optical in, so to take advantage of the clean optical out I'd have to get a standalone DAC, and I have no idea where to start with those...

David

[plastiqueusa]

I'd like to point out in case you missed it--the Denon does have optical inputs.

[iMacfan]

Originally Posted by plastiqueusa

I'd like to point out in case you missed it--the Denon does have optical inputs.

No, I didn't miss it - sorry if I gave that impression. However, I've been looking and it seems like that model is not available in the UK - then again, of course it isn't - I want to buy one!

David

[plastiqueusa]

Sorry, I didn't see that.

[Wolvin]

Hey, I'm looking into a nice speaker set-up also. So far, the Klipsch ProMedia 2.1 THX seem darn good for great quality music playback. For Gaming I've read they are good, although it depends on your expectations (you might want surround and full immersion).

I have the same question about sound quality from the iMac. I ordered a 24" iMac, and want to attach the Klipsch, but I hear that the sound output from the iMac is not superb. Is that because it doesn't have an optical in? Can somebody explain this a bit better? I know that in the Windows world folks are always all worried about soundcards. What is the new iMacs setup in terms of sound output/input?

Here's a review of the Klipsch, and some comparison to the Sirocco's.

The Klipsch come out quite nicely.

Thanks for any info.

[iMacfan]

I've spied a decent DAC - available for under $200, the Beresford TC-7510. All I need now is an idea of what amplifier and speakers to get.

David

[tooki]

Originally Posted by imitchellg5

This is a good forum for this. I would get the Harman Kardon Soundsticks. They are a little expensive, but they sound amazing. Harman Multimedia

They're $200 speakers that sound like $75 speakers.

You can do a lot better for the money than SoundSticks, whose main appeal is their appearance.

tooki

[MichiganRich]

What's the point of going with a standalone DAC?

The Soundsticks are not a realistic option, even compared to what you're coming from. Three possible options?-

1) You could look into a home theater all-in-one system perhaps? That would give you the optical TOSlink and the subwoofer that you're looking for. 2) You could also go with a Behringer studio recording monitor setup, for the least expensive way to get the very clean near-field soundstage. A BCA202 firewire interface would feed a pair of Truth active monitors. You could also add a subwoofer to that system. 3) Barring these options, I think the Logitech 'Digital' THX certified 5.1 systems with optical TOSlink inputs are a good value.

It sounds like you want BIG sound, so I've kinda narrowed down my advice to what I personally know sounds big. The Soundsticks, fanboys notwithstanding, do not sound BIG.

Let the flaming begin.

[porieux]

...

[brokenjago]

Well, I don't know whether this is any help, but I'm getting the Altec Lansing FX6021 2.1 system. I've heard great things about them, and they'll match the Mac Pro and 30" ACD I'm getting awesomely

[IceEnclosure]

My roommate has M-Audio's Studiophile BX8 set (there's a newer version of these now, the BX8a):

[removed oversize inline image --tooki]

They are ridiculous.

My Soundsticks sound great, really, but they've got nothin' on the $500 big dogs pictured above

[removed oversize inline image --tooki]

[porieux]

...

[druber]

I think it depends a lot on the sound you're looking for, what you listen to, etc. I'd agree with porieux, active studio monitors sound like they might be a good direction to look (It doesn't sound to me like you're going for "BIG sound"--more like clean, distinct, not bass-heavy; but feel free to tell us differently). Home audio recording is big business these days--hopefully you could find a local shop that sells studio monitors that would at least allow you to demo them in the store--maybe even at home. If you're thinking of spending $500 or more, I'd absolutely advise you to listen to them first. It's amazing (and actually pretty cool) how different people's "perfect sound" can be.

The point of a standalone DAC is to get better D/A conversion, for one, though I'm not sure how to quantify "better". And two, to get that conversion process away from your computer's innards, where the signal could pick up interference. I do think it's a myth that any external DAC could whomp any built-in DAC. I'd personally focus on buying speakers first, then test DACs as you have opportunity too.

I don't know why you'd want to buy a receiver if you aren't going surround-sound or using other inputs. If you come across passive speakers that you like, try the Sonic T-Amp and a big AC adapter (12V, 1500mA). Sounds rather disgustingly good, to be honest.

[iMacfan]

Actually, I'd heard of the T-amp before, but had forgotten about it. Now, it seems to be the perfect solution for me - I don't need multiple inputs, and iTunes has an equaliser if absolutely necessary.

Does anyone know if I can buy a super T-amp in the UK without getting one shipped across the atlantic?

Also, would anyone suggest good speakers to go with it, in the $500 range?

Thanks,

David

[TFunkadelic]

Yo dude, if you've got $1,000 to spend get the Dynaudio BM 5A's and don't look back. Trust me.

Dynaudio BM 5A | Sweetwater.com

[druber]

Have you tried anything from B&W? The CM series might be a place to start, if you can find them. Audiogon.com is always an interesting resource for used stereo gear; good for seeing what's in your price range on the used market, anyway. Head to a hi-fi store and do some listening. Take a CD you like and really know well. Listening's free. Buyer's remorse is expensive.

[porieux]

...

[IceEnclosure]

I promise, this is what you want ($500)
M-Audio BX8a:

[porieux]

...

[IceEnclosure]

Many of the speakers you posted are $500 each

[iMacfan]

Still researching, and one option that is looking good is building a system around a Sonic Impact Super T-amp - it's a much improved T-amp, with a metal case etc. This could leave me enough for really good speakers, such as the Monitor Audio Silver RS-1s. As I'm only going to be using the iMac as an input to start with, the limitations of the T-amp really aren't limitations.

Any reason why this would be a bad idea?

David

[TFunkadelic]

Yo dude, Dynaudio BM 5A's. You won't ever regret it, I promise.

[schuey100]

The MAudio's aren't great but they're ok at that price range. I second the Dynaudio BM 5A's. Great speakers and powered. You could, if you have a bit more money go for something a little higher end like the $1.5k+ Genelec range.

I also have a set of Mackie HR824's which are nice but the top end can be a little harsh. Perfect for a small room though.

[OreoCookie]

Connect your Mac to your stereo if you want good sound quality.

[lightusr]

Here's a USB to RCA/Toslink out convertor that might just suffice instead of a standalone DAC. It's not nearly as good quality-wise but it's an option.

M-AUDIO - Transit - Hi-Resolution Mobile Audio Upgrade

[iMacfan]

Originally Posted by lightusr

Here's a USB to RCA/Toslink out convertor that might just suffice instead of a standalone DAC. It's not nearly as good quality-wise but it's an option.

M-AUDIO - Transit - Hi-Resolution Mobile Audio Upgrade

Hi, Thanks I had seen that, and it is an option. However, for a little more I can get a specific DAC off eBay, that takes optical and SPDIF in and outputs headphone and phono line out.

I do also have an original Griffin iMic from the days of the clamshell iBook. Anyone have an opinion as to its quality vs the M-audio or the built in line out?

David

[iMacfan]

Also, I've just been looking, and the 24" iMac seems to have a much better audio subsystem than the 17" and 20". Just looking at the signal to noise ratio, it is 95dB on the 24" and 90 on the others. 5dB is a very big difference, so I'll hold off on the seperate DAC. So it's just back to the amp and speakers.

I have one other idea, but I'll hold off until I've done some more research...

David

[iMacfan]

Hi,

Just thought that I'd resurrect the thread to say what I eventually decided to buy: Ferguson Hill

They're gorgeous, and I managed to get a listen to them today, and they sound pretty good as well. Not too much bass, but I could point to the exact direction each voice and instrument was coming from.

Once again, thanks to everyone who replied with their opinions and advice.

David

[TFunkadelic]

You're pretty much a retard for buying those. 600£ for a stereo computer system that is +/- 5db at 75 hz. Frequency response might not be everything, but that's pretty unacceptable for a computer system when you spend that much money.


You'd probably be well served not listening to any of the speakers suggested in this thread if you don't feel like having heaps of buyers remorse.

[iMacfan]

Originally Posted by TFunkadelic

You're pretty much a retard for buying those. 600£ for a stereo computer system that is +/- 5db at 75 hz. Frequency response might not be everything, but that's pretty unacceptable for a computer system when you spend that much money.


You'd probably be well served not listening to any of the speakers suggested in this thread if you don't feel like having heaps of buyers remorse.

I'd disagree (obviously).

I listened to a set today (coincidentally connected to a Mac mini), and the bass response was fine for me. The sound was very clear and well defined. Also, I'd argue that they are the best looking speakers that I have ever seen, and when placed next to an iMac, they are head and shoulders above the black boxes which every other company seems to sell.

David

[TFunkadelic]

They're neat looking novelty speakers, I'll give them that, but give them a year and they'll look old and out dated.


If I'm spending over $1000 on a computer speaker set, I want the bass to be more than just "fine." You could have had exceptional performance all around with something like the Dynaudios, which actually would have been less than what you just spent for a system that performs about 5 times better, has critical acclaim to spare, and has looks that won't be tacky when the next wave of consumer technology roles around in a month.

[schuey100]

Well, what's done is done.

However I agree with TFunkadelic. They're novelty speakers.

Speaker choice is always very personal. I mean I know people who have sworn by NS10s But this isn't about what sounds good, it's about what looks good (you say as much in your post)

You probably did listen to them but you certainly didn't listen and A/B them against any of the highly recommended monitors in this thread because if you did you then had no interest in what they sound like at all.

But it seems that this may be the case anyway with comments like "best looking speakers" and "they are head and shoulders above the black boxes which every other company seems to sell."

I won't go so far as to say they're an expensive mistake but for those that value function over style then perhaps it's not the right choice.

[iMacfan]

I do understand what everyone is saying, but I have very few regrets (apart from spending that much on anything).

No, I didn't A/B it against good monitors, but I did listen to them at an 'audiophile' Hi-Fi show - the type that rents a hotel and gives each maker/distributor a listening room to demo their offerings. Now, this is the first (and probably last) show like this I've been to, and almost everything there was totally unaffordable to me - I saw tube amplifiers bigger than my TV and a DAC that cost more than 4 thousand pounds!

I did have a good listen to most setups, and a few things struck me. Firstly, louder still seems to be better even in this crowd, which suprised me and disappointed me. Also, it is even more of a personal opinion than I expected. Some very expensive equipment left me totally unimpressed, including Naim, the one company I had heard of. To my untrained ear, these did not disgrace themselves in any way when compared to everything else I heard, apart from the sheer volume of the others, which would get me evicted anyway.

Ultimately, I have exposed myself to be someone who likes good sound quality, but is not an audiophile. That is because I have put looks and design principles just as high on my list of priorities as the sound. I really value the fact that they are mini versions of the 15k, 5'6" massive horns, and that they are the product of modern aeronautic technology applied to the oldest of speaker concepts. That might make me special, but I think that these make them special in a way that any black box could not be. If I have paid too much for the absolute sound quality, I do not see it as any more excessive or less justifiable than the premium demanded for a Leica rangefinder or a Rolex.

In the end, when I first saw them on the net, I knew that if they sounded like they looked, I'd buy them. They did, so I did.

David

[TFunkadelic]

Originally Posted by iMacfan

I do understand what everyone is saying, but I have very few regrets (apart from spending that much on anything).

No, I didn't A/B it against good monitors, but I did listen to them at an 'audiophile' Hi-Fi show - the type that rents a hotel and gives each maker/distributor a listening room to demo their offerings. Now, this is the first (and probably last) show like this I've been to, and almost everything there was totally unaffordable to me - I saw tube amplifiers bigger than my TV and a DAC that cost more than 4 thousand pounds!

I did have a good listen to most setups, and a few things struck me. Firstly, louder still seems to be better even in this crowd, which suprised me and disappointed me. Also, it is even more of a personal opinion than I expected. Some very expensive equipment left me totally unimpressed, including Naim, the one company I had heard of. To my untrained ear, these did not disgrace themselves in any way when compared to everything else I heard, apart from the sheer volume of the others, which would get me evicted anyway.

Ultimately, I have exposed myself to be someone who likes good sound quality, but is not an audiophile. That is because I have put looks and design principles just as high on my list of priorities as the sound. I really value the fact that they are mini versions of the 15k, 5'6" massive horns, and that they are the product of modern aeronautic technology applied to the oldest of speaker concepts. That might make me special, but I think that these make them special in a way that any black box could not be. If I have paid too much for the absolute sound quality, I do not see it as any more excessive or less justifiable than the premium demanded for a Leica rangefinder or a Rolex.

In the end, when I first saw them on the net, I knew that if they sounded like they looked, I'd buy them. They did, so I did.

David

I don't care that you spent as much as you did. I have alot more money tied up in my stereo system than the Furg's are worth. It's more that your dollars could have gone much, much further than they did.

As for your impressions of the show, I completely agree. Consumer audio has as much or more snake oil salesmen/products than any other consumer field, and it's very easy to spend tens of thousands of dollars and not be happy.

[Gamoe]

iMacfan, congrats on your purchase. Those look really neat. Again, it's an issue of personal taste and priorities. Your priorities and taste might not be the same as another guy looking for a sound system.

I am in a similar situation as you were. Instead of only my Mac, though, I am struggling with the decision on what to put in the TV room with a new LCD TV. Thing is, I am also not an audiophile, and while I like choices, I loathe unnecessary complexity, and I find all these surround sound/amplifier/receiver systems very complex.

I didn't know, and don't really quite get why, for instance, most of these audio systems now play DVDs. Should a DVD player do that, which in turn would be connected to such a receiver?

Actually, I've been wondering if I should even go surround sound. I really like the Audioengine stereo speakers. The fact that they have a built-in amp and don't require a separate remote I really like. I'm also fond of the iPod Hi-Fi, but for around the same price, the Audioengine speakers seem a much better deal, sans the portability.

But then I go back to surround sound, and I wonder if I would be better off with a pair of $350 stereo speakers or a surround sound system around that price.

[mad cow disease]

I realize it may be too late, but if you can track them down, the Logitech Z-560 is an insane set for the price. 4.1 certified THX, with four satellites. They went out of production a while back but were priced at around $200 USD. With luck you might find them on craigslist somewhere for less than $100.

[HAGEhead]

Congrats for following your design eye. Quality is important, but visual design, to someone who appreciates style and decorating, can be invaluable (read why I have a 24" iMac at all in the first place).

[TFunkadelic]

If you mean to imply that the rest of us don't appreciate "style and decorating," you might have forgotten that you're in a Mac forum. Everyone on here appreciates styling (for the most part). Anyone with any kind of consumer sense also recognizes you can have both (i.e. apple products). There are plenty of speakers out there that aren't gimmick over priced novelty items that look great and sound amazing.

Design is extremely important to me, it's one of the things that initially attracted to me to my powerbook. However, if it had 64 mb of system ram, a 500 mhz processor and a 10 gb hard drive and cost $2,000 I wouldn't have bought it. Good style does not make poor performance acceptable.

[iMacfan]

Originally Posted by TFunkadelic

Design is extremely important to me, it's one of the things that initially attracted to me to my powerbook. However, if it had 64 mb of system ram, a 500 mhz processor and a 10 gb hard drive and cost $2,000 I wouldn't have bought it. Good style does not make poor performance acceptable.

But that's exactly the point I'm trying to make. Apart from the Bass response (Which, though this may shock many, I find perfectly acceptable) - there is no comprimise! This is not a cheap pair of speakers that some egomaniac has had a go at, like all those diamond-studded cheap digicams that you see on Engadget.com. These sound so exceptional because of they way they look, the only 'gimmick' being the transparancy of the acrylic, which has no effect on the sound either way.

So, like I said, I can see no real sacrifice when considering the purpose I have bought them. The only sacrifice is the 8 week wait before I can get my hands on them!

David

[TFunkadelic]

I'm just saying, compare them to the Dynaudio BM-5A's which you could have had for less money, and the comprimise will become glaringly obvious.


By the way, horn designs are a major compromise. They achieve exceptional efficiency and output capabilities for good frequency response and imaging. Plastic ain't too inert either, especially for a thousand dollars.

I might also point out your thousand dollars got you one way speakers, so they'll lose a bit on the top end, low end (which you already knew) and mid bass.

[Gamoe]

Oh TFunkadelic, drop it. He's obviously looked into it and happy with his purchase. There's no need to criticise his decision any further. We all know by now that this isn't your choice in speakers. As I was trying to say, taste and priorities when shopping are very relative and to each his own. At least they are pretty unique speakers that his next door neighbors aren't liable to have.

As for myself, after a lot of comparing, thinking and going back and forth, I decided to go with my first choice-- the one and only that's really stood out for me and that I've really wanted for logical as well as mysterious reasons-- and went with the Audioengine speakers. I got a black pair and I'm really looking forward to getting and hearing them in action.