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getting electric shocks from Macbook Pro?
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Grizzled Veteran
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Hi All,
When typing on my 15" MBP (C2D), the inside of my wrists get what I think are tiny electric shocks where they touch the laptop (right at the edge). It's pretty unpleasant.
It's almost like the hair on the inside of my arm (very fine, I assure you!) is being pulled out, which is what I thought was happening at first as I was typing (the hairs perhaps getting caught at the seam between the aluminum and the plastic as I moved my arm around). Definitely not that.
A little experimentation shows that the electric shocks are only present when the laptop is plugged in.
So, before I go taking anything back to Apple, anybody else experience this?
Chas
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i don't know how the weather in London is right now, but here in MA the air is very dry, and usually with dry air comes electrical shocks. i get it from even turning on the lights sometimes, or touching anything metal, including my powerbook. what helped me reduce it from it doing it AS much was a grounded computer power brick by Monster. Works well enough.
-a
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sounds like a ground problem of your house. Does it happen while at school, or coffee shop or anywhere else?
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Thanks for the replies.
brassplayersrock (good nick, I play trumpet), London is pretty well perpetually wet. It certainly is now (raining as I write). These shocks are definitely not weather related, and aren't static discharges (best evidence: the shocks are continuous).
Frugle, it's a good point, I've got to check elsewhere. To be honest, I wouldn't be surprised if it were a problem with my house, I'm suspicious of the wiring (light bulbs go more often than I think they should).
Thanks again for the help,
Chas
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sounds like an earthing problem on the PSU. If you lightly brush your hand over the metal surface you should feel a gentle tingling. I suspect you are probably using the plug that attaches directly to the PSU, rather than the long cord... or the socket in your house has no earth.
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Clinically Insane
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The same thing was happening to me when I had in one of the PowerBook batteries that was eventually recalled. It stopped when I put in the replacement battery.
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Chuck
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Make sure you're using the long cable that came with the power adapter so that it's properly grounded.
As for the light bulbs, energy saving are the way to go. We have some that use something like 11w but output 100w. There's an energy saving light bulb in the kitchen that hasn't been replaced since we moved in 7 years ago. Still works perfectly.
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Yeah, try using the long cord with your charger rather than the plug. See if that grounding helps.
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I sometimes use a long extension cable with my MBP and i never feel a shock. You may want to be sure that they outlets in your flat are properly grounded, if they aren't then that may be the source of your problem. It can also cause more issues if it isn't, as in you probably aren't getting clean power.
Try using a surge protector between the Mac and then see if you get the shocks still.
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Posting Junkie
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Please do a search of this forum.
This is normal, and it is within Apple's spec. It has been this way since the titanium Powerbooks of 2001.
Use the long extension cord; that will ground your machine, and the tingling will disappear.
Actually, I've just done the search for you:
http://forums.macnn.com/69/powerbook...nd-powerbooks/
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I concur with the hive mind-your power block, when plugged into the wall using only the folding prongs that came on it, is NOT grounded (earthed, as you call it over there). This means that there is a potential for you to get a small shock when you touch the metal case-and as analogika points out it's not only well known, it's within Apple's standards. The long cord has a ground (earth) terminal, which means the power block will be properly grounded (earthed) and there will be no stray charges or differences of potential on the case.
I would also point out that if you get this shock only at some specific location and nowhere else it means that the place you plug in and get the shock is not properly wired. (AC is AC, no matter where you are, and neither the "hot" nor "neutral" sides of the AC leg should be able to give you a shock if they're wired correctly. However, if they're wired backward, or if neutral is used for earth as well, you can have problems.)
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Glenn -----OTR/L, MOT, Tx
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Thanks for the contributions everybody.
bloodline: here in the UK all plugs have a grounding pin (necessary because of the 240 volts we use), so grounding through the PSU definitely isn't the issue (even though I'm not using the long cord). I _am_ suspecting the ground through the house, especially as I look more carefully at the wiring job that was done before we moved in here (the basement is unfinished, and most of the "new" wires run between the joists of the ground floor, so I can see them).
Chuckit: second battery (I always buy a spare) didn't change the problem, but thanks for the suggestion.
seanc: I'm not sure how the long cord would make a difference. Your iBook must use the three pin adaptor that goes directly into the power supply, it (like mine) of course has a third pin for grounding the connection. re: bulbs: what sort of energy saving bulbs are you using? Flourescent? (the energy saving bulbs we had back in Canada were 5 or 10W less than "standard", rather than some new tech). Because of both the bulb problem and what I'm becoming pretty sure is a house-wiring ground problem, I think we're going to have to have the place rewired some day (and, yes, I am at this very moment trying to buy this place :-/
Simon: thanks for the suggestion. Despite the fact that the UK plug that goes directly into the power supply already has a grounding plug, I'm going to try the long one too (if I can dig it out of wherever I put it...)
PSXBatou: a surge protector is a good suggestion, thanks. I'm going to borrow a more robust multi-meter from a friend (mine wouldn't handle 240V) and see if the outlets are grounded or not.
analogika: a search was a good suggestion, and I certainly did one (but thanks for your link). What I'm dealing with is definitely more than static electricity, I'm afraid (and yeah, my TiBooks would certainly shock me once in a while, definitely not fun! And I even had a Pismo power supply blow up once, lots of sparks and everything :-)
ghporter: "hive-mind", I like that one :-)
I miss the great "folding" plug arrangement I had on my PowerBook in Canada (I'm an expat Canadian living in London), but at least the big chunky UK plug that goes into the power supply does have a grounding pin (but as I mention to Simon above, I'm going to try out the long cord, just to be _really_ sure). fyi: the potential difference I'm dealing with here is definitely not static, as it's continuous. I am becoming very suspicious of the wiring in this house though, time to pull out the multi-meter and see what's what.
Thanks again everyone,
Chas
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Originally Posted by chasg
Thanks for the contributions everybody.
bloodline: here in the UK all plugs have a grounding pin (necessary because of the 240 volts we use), so grounding through the PSU definitely isn't the issue (even though I'm not using the long cord). I _am_ suspecting the ground through the house, especially as I look more carefully at the wiring job that was done before we moved in here (the basement is unfinished, and most of the "new" wires run between the joists of the ground floor, so I can see them).
Yeah, I know... I'm English
Anyway, the short plug that fits on the PSU doesn't connect the ground. You need to use the Long lead, that will solve your problem.
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Chasg, take the head off of your adapter and have a look at both the adapter and the plug head. On the adapter, you'll see that the part that slots into the plug head is metal which is meant for grounding. Look in the slot on the plug head, no metal, which means it doesn't ground. If you were to look at the slot on the long cable, you'd see that there is a metal contact in there meant for grounding and so when you use that, the power brick is grounded.
I experienced the exact same thing with a 12" PowerBook, using the long cable solved the problem.
Normal light bulbs blow frequently here too and often take out the rest of that lighting circuit with it so that it has to be reset. I'm not sure what type of bulbs we're using, some Tesco variety I assume. How old is your house? This house is a year older than I am, which makes it 18 years old so I would think that the wiring is fine here although I can't say that for yours because it really depends on how old the house is.
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Originally Posted by chasg
Simon: thanks for the suggestion. Despite the fact that the UK plug that goes directly into the power supply already has a grounding plug, I'm going to try the long one too (if I can dig it out of wherever I put it...)
Yeah, but is that grounding pin really connected? As seanc said above, although the pin's there it might not really be connected to the round metal piece (ground) on the PS. I'd be very surprised if using the long cord (which indeed connects to the grounding pin of the PS) doesn't solve your problem.
If indeed the grounding in your house is faulty, have you tried grounding it yourself? What happens if you connect the ground to a water pipe? Or if you have cable TV or radio, to the shield of an antenna plug? That's certainly not a final solution, but it might help you find out if your house is actually grounded at all. I've seen a house where the ground was wired to the neutral right behind the sockets!
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Clinically Insane
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How is proper grounding set up in an electrical system?
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"The natural progress of things is for liberty to yield and government to gain ground." TJ
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Forum Regular
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Originally Posted by Big Mac
How is proper grounding set up in an electrical system?
A wire from the ground pin of the electrical plug to the ground/earth. It really is that simple.
BS 1363 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Originally Posted by chasg
Thanks for the contributions everybody.
bloodline: here in the UK all plugs have a grounding pin (necessary because of the 240 volts we use), so grounding through the PSU definitely isn't the issue (even though I'm not using the long cord).
If you are not using the long cord, your PSU is NOT grounded.
The 240V are completely irrelevant - we have 230V in Germany, and the short piece ("duckhead") is not grounded. Grounding is not a requirement of certain voltages; it's merely a good idea for certain devices.
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Posting Junkie
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Originally Posted by chasg
analogika: a search was a good suggestion, and I certainly did one (but thanks for your link). What I'm dealing with is definitely more than static electricity, I'm afraid
The link I posted has NOTHING to do with static.
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In addition to a multimeter, you should be able to find "outlet testers." These gadgets are simply a plug body (a big one) with some lights on the back and prongs on the front. The lights will tell you which way the socket is wired-and if there's a problem-without any figuring or "is this side the hot side?" questions. It's a handy tool to have.
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Glenn -----OTR/L, MOT, Tx
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Hi All,
I was amused when i read the initial post by chasg because i felt EXACTLY the same way... Im a fussy consumer and thought that maybe my fussiness was going to reach an all time high.
I would feel a tiny prick and thought it was my arm hairs getting caught between the plastic border and the aluminium panel LOL. Then i imagied that maybe there was an electric charge thing happening.
Im just glad hat you guys pointed out that it is a known issue and i dont have to worry about it anymore.
I guess thats what happens when you have a casing that can conduct charge as opposed to the majority of platic notebooks on the market. oh well...
Perhaps it can be a feature to keep ppl awake when they pull all-nighters trying to get stuff done for those tight deadlines lol.
rob.
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ecellent a random thread read that has solved my problems.
Both mine and my wifes PB's give us small shocks. I thought the slight vibration you fel when touching the casing was just weird as it only happens when using the power adapter, but now I know the answer - use the long leaD.
Thanks everyone!
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I get those occasionally. It could be due to the cold weather along with the aluminum construction.
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Very interesting thread.
I experienced the tiny electric shocks on the first Powerbook G4 I bought. I later returned it for other reasons, and bought a higher spec Powerbook. With this second one, I didn't experience the shocks. I was/am using the long cord with both machines.
However, when I connect my printer to my Powerbook, I can feel the tingling again. I'm not too bothered with this, as I don't connect the printer up often.
I don't think the problem is weather related at all. And from my experience, I don't think it's house wiring related. Just as an aside, you can sometimes find the same sensation, when touching certain Hi-Fi components, DVD players, and electronics with a metal casing. Still I assume it's safe, although a little disconcerting.
*Chasg, if you don't find a solution for this, then I'd take the MBP back. It does seem like it happens on some machines and not others. Plus when you've invested so much money on a laptop, that 'stresses' you out every time you use it, I think it's reason enough for Apple to correct it.
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Last edited by Crouching Donkey; Feb 28, 2007 at 03:27 AM.
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Posting Junkie
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Originally Posted by Crouching Donkey
*Chasg, if you don't find a solution for this, then I'd take the MBP back. It does seem like it happens on some machines and not others. Plus when you've invested so much money on a laptop, that 'stresses' you out every time you use it, I think it's reason enough for Apple to correct it.
I have yet to see a single macBook Pro OR aluminium Powerbook that DOESN'T behave this way when it's hooked up using only the two-prong adapter.
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Originally Posted by analogika
I have yet to see a single macBook Pro OR aluminium Powerbook that DOESN'T behave this way when it's hooked up using only the two-prong adapter.
I have yet to have my MBP bite me in this way, but I have only plugged it in at home (new construction as of 2002) and at school (new construction as of about 1997). I think the biggest issue is how well the outlet you use was wired. Not that it's hard to connect an outlet! But if the ground isn't well connected, or the ground wire in the box isn't properly connected at the panel box, then you won't have a good ground. Or the electrician could get confused and put the wires on the outlet backwards-in which case you chase the guy across town with a broom, because my dog can see the difference!
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No, the wiring of the outlet seems irrelevant. ESPECIALLY the ground-connection, since this only happens when you're using the UNGROUNDED TWO-PRONG adapter duckhead.
Try it: Grab something grounded, and gently move the back of your hand/fingers over the palmrest of the book.
If you're wearing rubber-soled shoes and not touching anything grounded/large enough made of metal, you obviously won't notice a thing.
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Originally Posted by analogika
I have yet to see a single macBook Pro OR aluminium Powerbook that DOESN'T behave this way when it's hooked up using only the two-prong adapter.
Well, the OP lives in London, and as he states, in the UK they use three-prong plugs with an earth, like we do in Hong Kong. So, my response is with this in mind.
Judging by your response, you're insinuating that all metal cased Macs give off this electric shock, when using two-prong plugs? That doesn't sound too good, for people in countries who use two-prongs for their Mac laptops.
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Posting Junkie
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Originally Posted by Crouching Donkey
Well, the OP lives in London, and as he states, in the UK they use three-prong plugs with an earth, like we do in Hong Kong. So, my response is with this in mind.
I'm willing to bet that the third prong on your plug is NOT grounded, nor is his. Check the groove on the back of the little duck-head adapter piece to see if there is actually a metal contact inside.
If there is and there is still current flowing when he touches the skin of his 'book, the electrical system in his building has a grounding problem. CALL A PROFESSIONAL ELECTRICIAN IMMEDIATELY (difficult if you live in the UK, I realize. )
Originally Posted by Crouching Donkey
Judging by your response, you're insinuating that all metal cased Macs give off this electric shock, when using two-prong plugs? That doesn't sound too good, for people in countries who use two-prongs for their Mac laptops.
I'm not insinuating this, I'm flat-outright stating it. Apple support themselves have told me that this is the case.
And yes, I called them, since I do indeed consider it a problem if several thousand dollars' worth of studio equipment gives a little spark every time I connect it to my computer.
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Originally Posted by analogika
No, the wiring of the outlet seems irrelevant. ESPECIALLY the ground-connection, since this only happens when you're using the UNGROUNDED TWO-PRONG adapter duckhead.
You're right-it's connecting the hot and neutral wires that I was thinking abut that's the relevant part about the outlet.
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Attach a keyboard to it. Duh.
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Hey...
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Hi All, apologies for not replying to your comments/posts earlier.
bloodline: sorry to assume you're not english, I couldn't hear the accent in your post (y'see, I'm not actually english myself ;-)
You're absolutely right about the short plug on the PSU not actually grounding. A close look revealed an absolute lack of metal contacts for the "ground" portion of the short plug. That's absolutely ridiculous! Besides a tiny savings, I can't see why, if the ground pin is actually there, it wouldn't be active as ground (don't they know that it's 240V over here? Jeez!). And yes, the long lead _does_ actually ground, my apologies to anyone I might have slighted by implying that the short plug would definitely ground (and that the long plug wouldn't be necessary).
seanc: you were absolutely right about short plug vs. long and grounding, my thanks (I'll say it again: idiotic decision on Apple's part to not ground the short plug). As for my lightbulbs, they're bloody expensive 240V spotlights (halogens? Only 35W). I'm actually thinking of buying this house, and if I do, out go the expensive fixtures. Oh, and I'm going to get a full assessment of the wiring too, even though it was re-wired only 2 years ago (a year before we moved in, I must say).
Simon: yep, seanc was right re: pins being grounded or not grounded (grr Apple!). Thanks for the grounding advice. I can actually see a grounding wire attached to the water pipes in my basement (it's seriously unfinished). If I buy this place, the wiring is going to get a looksee for sure.
analogika: you're right, thanks for the confirmation re: grounding with the short adaptor and the long plug (any ideas why the heck that decision was made?). Oh, as for my implication that the thread you sent me to was about static: my apologies for not reading the entire thread, I'm afraid that I read the title ("Static Electricity and Powerbooks ") and only a little bit of the thread and then replied.
ghporter: thanks for the pointer to outlet testers, I used to use them all the time when I was working on my house back in Canada. I have to admit that I hate working with electricity, and 240V even more so!
phoenix78: nice to hear that somebody has experienced exactly the same thing as I have (well, not nice you're getting shocks, but at least I know I'm definitely not imagining it!). Oh, and as for keeping people up, I was working until 2am last night preparing for a meeting early this morning, and those shocks are _definitely_ a help when trying to stay awake! (hmm, I've seen some really great hacks for the sudden motion sensor, I wonder if anyone could come up with something for this "feature-not-a-bug" shock feature!)
Crouching Donkey (Hidden Rooster? ;-), from what I've read, this is a model-wide problem, so taking it back because of shocks is going to get me a great big "go away" from Apple. Simple to solve this problem for the UK anyway: make the short plug adaptor actually ground! (jeez, the pin is there, wire it in already...).
Analogika, re: your first use of the term "duckhead". I was afraid that it was a typo! (one vowel switched for another). Glad to learn that the "short plug" has an actual name (where did the term "duckhead" come from anyways?). Oh, and I had a big LOL when you noted how difficult it is for a UK resident to find an electrician (or any other type of contractor). How true it is!
Thanks again, I've learned a great deal in this thread.
Chas
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On my U.S. cord, the part that goes over the post to hold the duckbill on IS the ground/earth connection for the cord-is there no springy metal part that goes over the post on a UK cord?
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Thanks for all the information. I now know not to be alarmed if I feel that pulsing feeling or the "prick" when resting my palms on the edge. I'll have to buy an adapter to use the long cord because I bought my MBP from an American and I need the Australian adapter
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You need the Aussie CORD, not a different adapter. All the adapters are 50/60Hz, 100-240V capable.
Input: 100-240V ~ 1.5A (1,5A) 50-60 Hz
The beauty of these blocks is that all you need for a different locale with different plugs is the duckbill or cord. Smart guys, those Apple designers!
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Wasn't he just talking about getting a plug adapter rather than buying a whole new charger?
Something like this:
I'm using a US charger in Europe with such a adapter and it's working like a charm. The only thing youy have to make sure is that the adapter actually connects the ground. There are cheap adapters that don't. If you get such an adapter you'll get little shocks even when you use the (grounded) cable.
Originally Posted by ghporter
The beauty of these blocks is that all you need for a different locale with different plugs is the duckbill or cord. Smart guys, those Apple designers!
Yep. You get all the adapters in the Apple World Travel Kit.
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Last edited by Simon; Mar 2, 2007 at 09:28 AM.
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Posting Junkie
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Originally Posted by ghporter
On my U.S. cord, the part that goes over the post to hold the duckbill on IS the ground/earth connection for the cord-is there no springy metal part that goes over the post on a UK cord?
On the cord, yes. The point is that on the duckhead, it's not.
BTW, the Apple World Travel Adapter Kit is unnecessary (and $40!). All you need is to locally buy is an adapter cable (it will be ungrounded, but it will run you $2.50 at a local hardware store).
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Administrator
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The MacBook Pro uses an 85 watt adapter that looks like this:
The part on the left with the prongs sticking out is what I'm referring to as the "duckbill." It slips off upward and a long power cord (supplied with the computer) replaces it. My cord is a three-prong, fully grounded cord, and it appears that the two-prong duckbill simply uses the large metal stud to stay attached, while the cord uses it to make the third, grounding connection. Yes, you CAN use the cord analogika pictured, but you lose the grounding feature. I, for one, would prefer to keep the grounding feature and pay extra for it. If I could just find a source for the cord itself (it probably comes with a new adapter) I'd post it.
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Glenn -----OTR/L, MOT, Tx
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I have just received a replacement Macbook Pro C2D 2.33 15" this past week. I am getting those same shocks right up front, to the right and left of trackpad mouse.
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I just got a strong electric shock from my MBP. I think the reason was that I had my TV Tuner plugged in (and it is plugged into the roof antenna). As soon as I plugged the MBP into the mains with the long earthed cable it was fine. I know previously I've received minor shocks from the antenna cabeling in this house if a VCR is plugged in somewhere else in the house.
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MBP 2.16ghz 15"
iMac G5 1.6Ghz 17"
Powermac 7200/120
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The adapter in the image I posted above costs about $5 and it keeps your MBP grounded.
What I don't understand is why Apple doesn't just simply ground the 'duckbills'. I wouldn't spend $39 on the Travel Kit if it's not grounded.
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Last edited by Simon; Mar 3, 2007 at 06:53 AM.
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Originally Posted by Simon
What I don't understand is why Apple doesn't just simply ground the 'duckbills'. I wouldn't spend $39 on the Travel Kit if it's not grounded.
Then you couldn't fold it-design wins over function here. And yes, your pictured adapter does provide a ground. I was comparing the Apple power adapter to the cord analogika posted.
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Glenn -----OTR/L, MOT, Tx
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Posting Junkie
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Originally Posted by ghporter
Then you couldn't fold it-design wins over function here.
In principle, you could fold the ground pin just like you fold the others.
Anyway, I don't know about you guys, but personally I'd rather have a grounded than a 'foldable' duckbill.
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When I was living in Canada, I _really_ liked the foldable adaptor, but now that I'm in the UK (and getting shocked by the non-grounded duckbill), I'd rather have a grounded version!
Chas
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Wow! This forum is great! I was doing a google search on this exact problem, and found this thread. My situation is complicated by the fact that I suffer from peripheral neuropathy in my hands. I'm very sensitive to heat (the pad to the left and right of the mouse gets quite warm) so for the longest time, I was attributing the tingling feeling to neuropathic pain. But I still feel it, to a lesser degree, when the machine is not warm; something else going on so I googled 'laptop electric charge'. This thread has convinced me that I'm not going nuts! Thank you!
I still think the heat is a major contributing factor to the discomfort in my hands so I ordered a Targus cooling mat. It's not a good fit for my 17" PBP, but I've read comments that it still works. I'm also getting some silicon potholders (!) to place under my wrists.
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I find the easiest thing to do is:
• put on some socks and shoes with rubber soles (you can always turn down your heater a little, if your feet get too toasty )
• work on timber (non-metal) desk
Works for me, as not all location I go to have earthed power points, even thought I use my long cord.
cheers,
rbleeker
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Originally Posted by ghporter
Yes, you CAN use the cord analogika pictured, but you lose the grounding feature. I, for one, would prefer to keep the grounding feature and pay extra for it. If I could just find a source for the cord itself (it probably comes with a new adapter) I'd post it.
I was suggesting that cord as a generic alternative to the ridiculously expensive World Travel Adapter Kit.
I know we can order just the grounded cable at the store I work at (it's €25), so I'm sure you'd be able to order it at any Apple store - they'd probably have to order it as a replacement part, not a regular sales item, but they should be able to and sell it to you.
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I am experiencing this as well. I have a Powerbook Alum. 12" ...
I tested it with a multimeter, there is 10 volts present when plugged in with three prong adapter.
I've read that this is "acceptable" but ANSI standards would not underwrite this product as "safe"
There should be zero volts and zero current on any product case. I don't think that it's a dangerous level, but I still refuse to use my mac when it is plugged in.
Very bad oversight by Apple on this one.
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Posting Junkie
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I think some people just have faulty ground wiring (or chargers). If I connect my MBP with the three-prong adapter I measure zero voltage drop between the case and ground. The resistance is some mOhm which is what you'd expect from a meter of copper cable.
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Last edited by Simon; May 26, 2007 at 04:02 AM.
Reason: spelling)
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